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Nac General Discussion Thread

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Chronamut
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Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 08:36 PM Reply

Welcome to the official Newgrounds Audio Contest discussion and ideas thread!

GENERAL NAC RULES:

1) if you are a judge of a NAC, you naturally cannot participate in it.

2) If you chicken out of your responsibilities you will simply be dropped as a judge for the contest and things will move on. You will have plenty of time to judge and if you cannot meet the deadline then you are seen as not deserving of the position and process will move on without you. No hard feelings. We can;t have wishy-washy judges - these contests reflect newgrounds and so we need dedicated people. I'm sure you all understand.

3) Those that have proven to be knowledgeable about music and have a high standing in the audio portal and the audio community will be considered for judges. I will most likely approach you and ask you if you want to be a judge. . also feel free to request to be a judge in the discussion thread if we say we need judges.

4) there will be 2-4 "sweeper" judges who will take the unfun job of taking all the submissions and weeding out the bad ones to 8 promising submissions. The rest, won't make the cut. At that point it will only be a matter of placement - which the higher up finalist judges will do. I will be Simon - the rest of you can argue out who wants to be Paula Abdul and Randy Jackson :P Anyone with a basic understanding of music can be a sweeper but we reserve the right to ask from a specific pool of people who have volunteered who we will use. Can't have people being biased.

- - -

General Structure of NACs

Now for the general structure of all NACs. The point of this is to keep all NACs consistant and to run things in a professional and consistant manner that shows enthusiasm and maturity, as a lot of people don't take the audio portal seriously. I want to put that conception to an end.

All NACs will consist of an american-idol like system - where a bunch of people submit - and their songs are put through a screening process. The submitting process will last between 2-3 weeks. During this time the sweeper judges will listen to the submissions as they come and approve or deny as songs are submitted. They will eventually weed it down to about 8 submissions that pass - no hard feelings to everyone else - but sometimes we get like 60 submissions and the final judges shouldn't have to wade through all that. This thread is also here to fix all the bad mistakes that were made in the past. These consisted of inconsistant hosts, inconsistant and unreliable judges, and too many submissions being judged. This thread also eliminates the need to post the rules in each new NAC thread.

At this point in the final week or 2 of the month once the 8 people have been chosen it will be up to the judges to judge them. The judging process will be simple. You listen to the song, and you write up a review for it. Just like american idol judges do after the singer has finished singing - they give their critique.

It should be short, maybe 3-5 paragraphs. It should highlight what you liked about it, what you didn't like, and what needs improvement so that it can be a good submission, as well as encouragement to their efforts in making it. If you need examples look at any of my reviews - I tend to think I post fairly. Users want you to piece their song apart and tell them how to improve their song, or to be praised for all the things they did right, which they justly deserve, becasue let's face it - some songs submitted are just flawless, and there is nothing worse than some asshole reviewer that gives you a novel nitpicking it because they feel they have to find something wrong with your song.

The judges then give it a review out of ten, as well as a yes or no for approval. This will eliminate ties, or at least crack down on them. The placements will then be determined by average scores amongst judges, and how many yes and nos you got from the judges.

anyone that isn't finished by the end of the month - too bad. Anyone that isn't finished by the third week of the month submisison wise - too bad. No exceptions. Once the top 8 have been decided they will be posted, and then once we have judged they will be put in their proper order.

So consider yourself having 2 weeks from the start of the month, with the end of that second week being the unofficial deadline, and the week after that being for any scragglers who can't make the deadline for some reason. The way I see it is you don't need more than 2 weeks to make a song. However if you take 2 weeks to make a song that's awesome!

Those that finish their song in a day will also be viewed negatively if they are tied with someone who took 2 weeks to make the song. We want to see EFFORT!

- - -

Breakdown of Awards

1st Place: $50.00 store credit, weekly feature, reviewed by all judges, 1st place sig (optional)
2nd Place: $40.00 store credit, weekly feature, reviewed by all judges, 2nd place sig (optional)
3rd place: $30.00 store credit, weekly feature, reviewed by all judges, 3rd place sig (optional)
4th place: weekly feature, reviewed by all judges
5th place: reviewed by all judges
6th place: reviewed by all judges
7th place: reviewed by all judges
8th place: reviewed by all judges

also in future trophies will be alloted for all event related newgrounds submissions - so in future on your submission page you will have a contest trophy showing your placement as well , just like the art portal has trophies :) - this implementation will filter back and apply to all official ngs related audio contests. You will finally get the recognition you deserve :)

Morphone
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 08:41 PM Reply

Lol. I love cheap knock-off brands! I dunno know what happened to your original thread, but let's continue with this one.


Check out Morphone music on my page and on Youtube. All varieties of music here.

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Morphone
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 08:43 PM Reply

"Those that finish their song in a day will also be viewed negatively if they are tied with someone who took 2 weeks to make the song. We want to see EFFORT!"

Of course, that's only in the case that they didn't make a smashing good hit in one day right? It might only take someone a couple of days to make a song, and another person two weeks. You aren't gonna look down on the couple day person just because of the time it took, right?


Check out Morphone music on my page and on Youtube. All varieties of music here.

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Chronamut
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 08:59 PM Reply

At 1/4/11 08:43 PM, Morphone wrote: "Those that finish their song in a day will also be viewed negatively if they are tied with someone who took 2 weeks to make the song. We want to see EFFORT!"

Of course, that's only in the case that they didn't make a smashing good hit in one day right? It might only take someone a couple of days to make a song, and another person two weeks. You aren't gonna look down on the couple day person just because of the time it took, right?

depends on the quality of the submission - if I can tell less effort went into it then yes I will make time a factor.

Also I asked pox to lock the other thread as it was no longer relevant to my contest.

matvei
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 09:01 PM Reply

After reading your saucy description of what this is, I am still interested in this contest of yours. I don't have any real suggestions yet, but I just want you to know that I support this endeavor and would like to participate when the time comes. :D


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BrokenDeck
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 09:01 PM Reply

The first official NAC has started.

The Orchestral NAC

seargenthippo
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 09:20 PM Reply

At 1/4/11 09:01 PM, brokendeck wrote: The first official NAC has started.

The Orchestral NAC

Awesome. You've got a willing contestant here!

Gravey
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 09:20 PM Reply

My apologies for posting this in the wrong thread. I did not see that there was a discussion thread started for this. So my question was do orchestral black metal songs fit the guidelines for this contest? To give you an example of what I mean...

WIP Orchestral Black Metal Song

Because I'm already writing an album in this style, which if you get rid of the guitars is basically orchestral to the core. Is it soundtrack type music? No, and I'm guessing that would kill my chances of winning. But all the same I would like to submit something if this sub-genre fits within the guidelines.


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Chronamut
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 09:22 PM Reply

please take any discussion about the orchestral NAC into this thread and post as follows:

Orchestral NAC

omg its so amazing u hunh yeah.. It's our first official NAC peoplez! You are allowed to have 2 NACS a month - be sure to run them by me though so that they can all be structured the same timeline wise :)

Chronamut
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 09:24 PM Reply

At 1/4/11 09:20 PM, Gravey wrote: My apologies for posting this in the wrong thread. I did not see that there was a discussion thread started for this. So my question was do orchestral black metal songs fit the guidelines for this contest? To give you an example of what I mean...

WIP Orchestral Black Metal Song

Because I'm already writing an album in this style, which if you get rid of the guitars is basically orchestral to the core. Is it soundtrack type music? No, and I'm guessing that would kill my chances of winning. But all the same I would like to submit something if this sub-genre fits within the guidelines.

Orchestral NAC

any song where the non-orchestral part of the song takes a secondary supportive role is acceptable. The main rule here is the orchestral part has to be the main focus of the song.

also that song wouldn't qualify - the focus in that song is the guitars - so the non-orchestral element in the song.

also don't forget teh bolded titlez - this thread is ideally going to be for every single NAC ever made so if there ever is overlap it helps to have the bolded titles so that people can discuss the proper NAC - this also prevents a ton of discussion threads being made that just sit there useless after the contest ends :P

Gravey
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 09:25 PM Reply

At 1/4/11 09:24 PM, Chronamut wrote:
any song where the non-orchestral part of the song takes a secondary supportive role is acceptable. The main rule here is the orchestral part has to be the main focus of the song.

also that song wouldn't qualify - the focus in that song is the guitars - so the non-orchestral element in the song.

Fair enough. Have fun with this then.


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matvei
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 09:34 PM Reply

Orchestral NAC

Does the Lawrence Welk Orchestra set up fit the designs of this contest? I would like to do something in that vein which - while an orchestra in instrumentation - isn't heavy, movie score. So my orch. would be string section, brass section, woodwinds and saxes, concert percussion, piano, and some aux. instruments in a big band style. Is this allowable?


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BrokenDeck
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 09:52 PM Reply

At 1/4/11 09:34 PM, matvei wrote:
Does the Lawrence Welk Orchestra set up fit the designs of this contest?

Definitely! This is certainly allowed!

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 10:29 PM Reply

Here's a more in-depth clarification for the Orchestral NAC.

No instruments that are synthetic and/or electronic in nature can be continually used in a dominant manner.

For example, one can use a violin plugin, or brass plugin, but not a theremin plugin. One can use an acoustic guitar plugin, but not an electric guitar plugin. One can use a bells plugin, but not an 8-bit plugin.

Keep in mind that any of the aforementioned instruments can still be used in a supporting role. They just can't be the primary instrument of your entire submission, like you might hear in symphonic black metal.

I hope this helps to clarify some possible confusion.

Spikrodd
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 10:48 PM Reply

Okay, in relation to the NAC, can we do the orchestral thing like nubbinownz or Venetian Snares? That's pretty much the only way I'm in this shit.

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 10:55 PM Reply

Only 8 finalists? You shouldn't keep it to a strict number in the case you have more than 8 awesome or deserving submissions.

I would've said 10-15(usually around ten) or 8-12 would've been a little better...

But thats just my thoughts its not like ill be making an orchestral piece anytime soon.

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 10:59 PM Reply

At 1/4/11 10:55 PM, jpbear wrote: Only 8 finalists? You shouldn't keep it to a strict number in the case you have more than 8 awesome or deserving submissions.

I would've said 10-15(usually around ten) or 8-12 would've been a little better...

Truth of the matter is, David Orr and Nathan Allen Pinard are busy fellows, and we can't ask them to sacrifice even more of their time. They've already done everyone a huge favor by agreeing to be finalist judges.

jpbear
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 11:27 PM Reply

At 1/4/11 10:59 PM, brokendeck wrote:
Truth of the matter is, David Orr and Nathan Allen Pinard are busy fellows, and we can't ask them to sacrifice even more of their time. They've already done everyone a huge favor by agreeing to be finalist judges.

Thats pretty tight i guess then, but theyre not gonna be judging other rounds(genres) as well right?

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 4th, 2011 @ 11:28 PM Reply

At 1/4/11 10:48 PM, Spikrodd wrote: Okay, in relation to the NAC, can we do the orchestral thing like nubbinownz or Venetian Snares? That's pretty much the only way I'm in this shit.

The synthesized drums aren't part of the allowed instruments, since they are obviously dominant. As for nubbinownz's approach to classical, I would suggest more than piano & strings.

An orchestra consists of, a string section, brass section, woodwinds section, and a percussion section. Auxiliary instruments are present as well in a modern orchestra, such as piano, ethnic instruments, such as Chinese violins, or Armenian duduks, for example. All these are allowed. Try to use all these elements within your submission while staying within the aforementioned rules.

Doesn't hurt to try. You might even surprise yourself.

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 5th, 2011 @ 06:53 AM Reply

You can ask another artist or group to provide vocals, as long as all material is newly created for your submission, and you provide the details of the vocalist(s), who they are.

If we ask another artist to help with another element, such as for example drums, and its all newly created and what not, is it allowed or not?

Also, if for example I was working on a song and then it got stopped due to business. Can i go back to that WIP and finish it specifically for this competition?

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 5th, 2011 @ 08:34 AM Reply

At 1/4/11 11:27 PM, jpbear wrote:
At 1/4/11 10:59 PM, brokendeck wrote:
Truth of the matter is, David Orr and Nathan Allen Pinard are busy fellows, and we can't ask them to sacrifice even more of their time. They've already done everyone a huge favor by agreeing to be finalist judges.
Thats pretty tight i guess then, but theyre not gonna be judging other rounds(genres) as well right?

the truth of the matter is we're actually being MORE generous than the old MACs - who only rewarded the top 4. We are at least providing reviews from all judges after the winners are announced for all 8 top scoring.

Also this stringent finalist amount means that only the best of the best make it - your song may be good, but is it the best? It helps to cut out some lazy submissions.

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 5th, 2011 @ 08:37 AM Reply

At 1/5/11 06:53 AM, Echo wrote:
You can ask another artist or group to provide vocals, as long as all material is newly created for your submission, and you provide the details of the vocalist(s), who they are.
If we ask another artist to help with another element, such as for example drums, and its all newly created and what not, is it allowed or not?

ehhh that's a little difficult atm with collaborative linkage not implemented yet into the audio portal - who would we reward a prize to? We can't reward BOTH of you. We prefer if you do everything yourself - I mean vocalists are allowed, but as for other elements - unless you plan to take all the credit yourself we can't split store credit.

Also, if for example I was working on a song and then it got stopped due to business. Can i go back to that WIP and finish it specifically for this competition?

if you have never submitted it to the portal before then it is still considered a new song. We have nothnig against taking up the torch again on old WIPs.

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 5th, 2011 @ 09:44 AM Reply

I would love to join in on the fun but alas I don't have EWQL Orchestra etc... Just my trusty piano.


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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 5th, 2011 @ 10:06 AM Reply

At 1/5/11 09:44 AM, MarkySpark wrote: I would love to join in on the fun but alas I don't have EWQL Orchestra etc... Just my trusty piano.

Just use your keyboard's built in strings, brass, woodwinds, and symphonic percussion (timpanis etc.) We would be able to tell that you weren't trying to make a synthetic track.

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 5th, 2011 @ 10:08 AM Reply

At 1/5/11 08:34 AM, Chronamut wrote:
the truth of the matter is we're actually being MORE generous than the old MACs - who only rewarded the top 4. We are at least providing reviews from all judges after the winners are announced for all 8 top scoring.

*sigh* the truth of your matter is false.

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/6738 27
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/7003 73
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/7159 24

there might be more, i just checked a few... but who cares, it's still the same guy, Tom, who provides the awards.


Join the Newgrounds Battlefield 3 Platoon (for PC)! DON'T ASK WHAT YOUR GAME CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR, UH, NEWGROUNDS! ON BATTLEFIELD 3. eh...

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 5th, 2011 @ 10:21 AM Reply

At 1/5/11 10:08 AM, Rucklo wrote:
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/7159 24

Ah Castle Crashers...

How things have changed for David since,,,

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 5th, 2011 @ 10:44 AM Reply

Hey, you guys mind if I post some links to some free orchestral stuff that people can download, so everyone can have a fighting chance? And BTW, I'm not just talking about the soundfont collection I uploaded a few months ago. I have MANY more resources than that.

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 5th, 2011 @ 10:53 AM Reply

At 1/4/11 08:36 PM, Chronamut wrote: The way I see it is you don't need more than 2 weeks to make a song. However if you take 2 weeks to make a song that's awesome!

Those that finish their song in a day will also be viewed negatively if they are tied with someone who took 2 weeks to make the song. We want to see EFFORT!

Your personal philosophy and kind of a contradiction. And you can't know whether the two-weeks guy started working on his song the day before. I think you should scratch that and disregard the submission date entirely.

I've made songs in a day that are tons better than songs I spent months on (and I remember you yourself saying that if the end result is good, it doesn't matter how it was made).

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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 5th, 2011 @ 11:17 AM Reply

At 1/5/11 10:44 AM, blackattackbitch wrote: Hey, you guys mind if I post some links to some free orchestral stuff that people can download, so everyone can have a fighting chance? And BTW, I'm not just talking about the soundfont collection I uploaded a few months ago. I have MANY more resources than that.

By all means...

You sir, are a true gentleman...

Keep in mind, that realism of instruments won't be as important as arrangement.

Meaning, if you have extremely realistic sounds, but just use the strings section and not much else, your song might not have as much a fighting chance as a less realistic-sounding submission that has more varied usage of orchestral instruments.

Chronamut
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Response to Nac General Discussion Thread Jan. 5th, 2011 @ 11:37 AM Reply

At 1/5/11 10:08 AM, Rucklo wrote:
At 1/5/11 08:34 AM, Chronamut wrote:
the truth of the matter is we're actually being MORE generous than the old MACs - who only rewarded the top 4. We are at least providing reviews from all judges after the winners are announced for all 8 top scoring.
*sigh* the truth of your matter is false.

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/6738 27
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/7003 73
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/7159 24

there might be more, i just checked a few... but who cares, it's still the same guy, Tom, who provides the awards.

shit.. proven wrong again.. shows how much time dulls the memory.. looks like we were MORE generous in the past..