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I'm Agnostic. Don't mind me, I'm just going to continue living my life now.

Have fun, faggots.

At 12/24/10 05:58 AM, Coop5245 wrote: I have this question to atheists. If atheism is true, then our minds are reducible to physics. Since physics is fundamentally deterministic, we have no free will. Ergo, I have no 'choice' whether to adopt atheism or not, and you're wasting your time by trying to convince me of anything.

true, but it wouldn't really matter to atheists if you converted to atheism by your own free will, by determinism, or by indeterminism (random).

At 12/24/10 05:46 AM, E-2-the-T wrote:

At 12/24/10 05:40 AM, LordZeebmork wrote:

At 12/24/10 05:24 AM, E-2-the-T wrote: No, it enforces stupid, blind, illogical thinking.

Are you an atheist?

What was your first clue detective?

How do you know God doesn't exist? What evidence do you have?

If you ignore all the parts where it teaches you to be an extremeist phycopathic asshole then yes.

You can't take the Bible as written, unfallable law, however, if you have the open mind for it, it does hold some actually decent life lessons and morals.

If you pick and choose from the Bible, instead of worshiping all of it like a blind slave, then by all means yes.

At 12/24/10 06:17 AM, TiredPaperBoy wrote: If you pick and choose from the Bible, instead of worshiping all of it like a blind slave, then by all means yes.

well said

At 12/24/10 06:14 AM, LordZeebmork wrote:

At 12/24/10 05:46 AM, E-2-the-T wrote:

At 12/24/10 05:40 AM, LordZeebmork wrote:

At 12/24/10 05:24 AM, E-2-the-T wrote: No, it enforces stupid, blind, illogical thinking.

Are you an atheist?

What was your first clue detective?

How do you know God doesn't exist? What evidence do you have?

What difference does that make? Are we not talking simply about the consequences of holding a belief?

Dumb questions, btw.

At 12/24/10 04:41 AM, jarenfox2004 wrote: Wouldn't you say religion is a great psychotherapy, and enforces positive thinking, regardless of whether its claims are true or not?

Well, my stance on the issue is that to get good out of religion you have to pick-and-choose from a whole bunch of material, some of which is good and some.. not so much. Bad people read the Bible and use it as an influence to be bad. Good people read it and use it as an influence to be good. In other words, how religion affects you as a person depends on what you already are and I've seen very few people flip.

Second, wouldn't it be easy to make the argument that whatever good actions you do come out of fear of eternal damnation, rather than genuine virtue? If may happen to be one of the people who simply use religion to get on with day-to-day life rather than have it coerce you into doing anything, but there are a lot of things that can serve that purpose. Human progress, for example.

Third, religion is often associated with some obsolete and backwards beliefs, leading to theists being more conservative and less progressive-minded than atheists. It advocates a point of view on abortion, drugs, gay rights, evolution, Newton's principle of uniformity, etc. Is it really worth fighting over? Why can't we just use logic to deduce a solution, rather than spit out quotations from the Bible?

Good thing I believe in the theory of evolution...

http://www.evilbible.com/

At 12/24/10 05:58 AM, Coop5245 wrote: I have this question to atheists. If atheism is true, then our minds are reducible to physics. Since physics is fundamentally deterministic, we have no free will. Ergo, I have no 'choice' whether to adopt atheism or not, and you're wasting your time by trying to convince me of anything.

Atheism=/=materialism

Materialism is the philosophy that only the sensible reality is real.

Atheism isn't a statement of a belief, but more a statement of non-belief.

Lets just break the word down

A - an in not, against, "non"
Theism- derives from the word theos, greek for God, in the sense of a deity
ism-as in a belief system

thus atheism is just not believing in a deity.

Also, OP, would you say there is a difference between "superstition religions", like Christianity, or any religion that defines what is absolute (which is a contradiction in itself :P) from more "philosophical religions" like Buddhism, Taoism, and gnosticism? (I.e "god" or the "absolute reality" is beyond human definition, and understanding?)

mhm, nothing like the motive of expressing intolerance to make you feel better about yourself

/sarcasm

At 12/24/10 04:41 AM, jarenfox2004 wrote: Wouldn't you say religion is a great psychotherapy, and enforces positive thinking, regardless of whether its claims are true or not?

Don't you think you should stop pushing your christanity bullshit on us?

At 12/24/10 05:58 AM, Coop5245 wrote: Ergo, I have no 'choice' whether to adopt atheism or not, and you're wasting your time by trying to convince me of anything.

You were somewhat correct with your post up to this sentence. Determinism is not fatalism. Our act of trying to convince (or not convince) you about atheism and the act of you adopting (or not adopting) it is part of the overall timeline, as well as your post and my post, if determinism and causality work to completion.

At 12/24/10 04:41 AM, jarenfox2004 wrote: Wouldn't you say religion is a great psychotherapy, and enforces positive thinking

No

Nope.

At 12/24/10 05:58 AM, Coop5245 wrote: Ergo, I have no 'choice' whether to adopt atheism or not, and you're wasting your time by trying to convince me of anything.

Not really. I am an atheist, but I believe in free will, to some extent.

Not believing in some all-powerful deity does not mean you don't believe in anything supernatural.

Any sentence beginning: "Atheists believe" is wrong unless it follows up with something like: "that there is no god". Atheism is not a belief system, just as theism is not a belief system, but simply means "the belief in one or more gods."

At 12/24/10 04:41 AM, jarenfox2004 wrote: Wouldn't you say religion is a great psychotherapy, and enforces positive thinking, regardless of whether its claims are true or not?

It depends highly on what you mean. I.E. - extremists. There's extremists for everything: theism and atheism. Those kind of beliefs are dangerous IMO because they will go to any means necessary to get you to believe in them, even violence. It's not so much as "is religion a bad thing" but "how much is too far". And extremists prove that there is a thing as taking religion too far.

Still, I sorta agree with you. You have to admit that whoever wrote the Bible had some pretty dang good moral fiber. But seeing how this is Newgrounds and that 99% of them are atheists, I doubt anyone will give a crap or call you a dick and that "u belif a lie".

So inb4 when that happens.

At 12/24/10 05:58 AM, Coop5245 wrote: I have this question to atheists. If atheism is true, then our minds are reducible to physics. Since physics is fundamentally deterministic, we have no free will. Ergo, I have no 'choice' whether to adopt atheism or not, and you're wasting your time by trying to convince me of anything.

A very intriguing statement and I know what your saying.but to me thats like saying that since I cant fly due to the limits physics has placed on me I shouldn't try.However we have been able to overcome these limitations through the invention of aerodynamics.We refuse to let our free will be conquered or hampered.Hope I explained it ok.

No thanks, I don't want to buy whatever you're selling.

Sure, it gives people a motive, which can be great for psychotherapy. Unfortunately, it also prevents the individual from being truly free, as it causes them to idolize another more powerful individual and blindly follow what that individual says. Atheists can do the same thing, but they still have the ability not to. Most of us have the ability to make our own moral decisions, or at least think deeply about actions suggested by other people.

Note that many religious people do not follow every direction their religion tells them to. If they do this and do not regret it, then they do not belong to that religion. In the case of Christianity, churchgoers may seem as if they belong to that religion entirely, but if they are not fundamentalists of their sect they are only following their own variant of that religion. In a way, they are just as free as atheists as long as they think about their moral decisions and don't genuinely idolize Jesus.

At 12/24/10 06:14 AM, LordZeebmork wrote: How do you know God doesn't exist? What evidence do you have?

There is no evidence he exists, so it is illogical to claim he does.

At 12/24/10 04:46 AM, BananaBanMuffin wrote: Dane Cook says otherwise

That statement only applies to Christianity. And chances are, he thinks all religions are like Christianity.

Wait, Pascals wager hasn't been brought up? I am pleasantly surprised NG.

At 12/24/10 07:37 AM, Heretic-Anchorite wrote:

Atheism isn't a statement of a belief, but more a statement of non-belief.

That's really the same thing, as you're believing something is not true. Like how disproof is proving something to be untrue.

At 12/24/10 05:58 AM, Coop5245 wrote: I have this question to atheists. If atheism is true, then our minds are reducible to physics. Since physics is fundamentally deterministic, we have no free will. Ergo, I have no 'choice' whether to adopt atheism or not, and you're wasting your time by trying to convince me of anything.

That wouldn't be full on determinism, that would only be soft determinism. The laws of physics tell us both what we can do and what we can not do. The things we can do, like walk, jump, etc, are still open to choice, and even then we have the ability to overcome physics through thinking. Our minds and their actions depend on the transfer of molecules, true, but we can actually cause that to happen ourselves, leaving it up to our own desires. You can actually argue that physics is fundamentally indeterministic as well. Quantum physics is all about probability and randomness, and all other laws depend on the probability of something happening or not happening, though even Einstein admitted that this account of the universe is very incomplete.

Also, why are you acting as if atheism has anything to do with physics? There can still be a god who isn't affected by physics and lives in a whole new dimension (4th) in which he has power over ours (3rd), so you can still be religious and accept physics to be true (anyone who doesn't is just... stupid).

At 12/24/10 10:46 AM, WizMystery wrote: There can still be a god who isn't affected by physics and lives in a whole new dimension (4th) in which he has power over ours (3rd), so you can still be religious and accept physics to be true (anyone who doesn't is just... stupid).

My 11th dimension God can beat up your 4th dimension God.

At 12/24/10 10:52 AM, RacistBassist wrote:

At 12/24/10 10:46 AM, WizMystery wrote: There can still be a god who isn't affected by physics and lives in a whole new dimension (4th) in which he has power over ours (3rd), so you can still be religious and accept physics to be true (anyone who doesn't is just... stupid).

My 11th dimension God can beat up your 4th dimension God.

I'm serious though. If you take a look at string theory in addition to the visualization of upper dimensions, you can clearly see that it's possible for another being to exist in a particular direction of space without us seeing it. That being could appear instantly, physically move us, bend space... I don't believe it myself but it's a possibility.

At 12/24/10 06:07 AM, Greenfrost6 wrote: I'm Agnostic. Don't mind me, I'm just going to continue living my life now.

Have fun, faggots.

lol, exactly what I think.

At 12/24/10 06:07 AM, Greenfrost6 wrote: I'm Agnostic. Don't mind me, I'm just going to continue living my life now.

Have fun, faggots.

Apatheist was here.
You are smalltime.

At 12/24/10 10:56 AM, WizMystery wrote: I'm serious though. If you take a look at string theory in addition to the visualization of upper dimensions, you can clearly see that it's possible for another being to exist in a particular direction of space without us seeing it. That being could appear instantly, physically move us, bend space... I don't believe it myself but it's a possibility.

Sounds like 4th dimension God is scared. Bawk bawk. What are you gonna do? Run and tell 5th dimension God?