Human nature.Good or evil?

[Xionico]

I was going to name this thread "Rousseau or Nietzsche?" but the space limit didn't allow it and their takes on this matter aren't as simple as I'm putting it, so let's go with good or evil.

Basically, the question is. Is the human born good or evil?

One could always say that the human is born in a neutral state, but, for debate's sake, and that most human's actions are never neutral, let's say that human isn't born that way. (Personally I don't think he/she is, but that's just my opinion).

Distorting Rousseau's take on this matter a bit. One could say that human is born good, but that society and oh the cruel world corrupt him to become what we scientifically know as "a douchebag"

And distorting Nietzsche's take on this matter a bit. One could say that the human is naturally evil but is thaught good.

My personal opinion is that the human being is born evil, only that he doesn't know that he actually is (one could always say that then is born neutral, but we are talking "good and evil" based on society's dogmas) but has to be teached that what he's doing is selfish, cruel etc. (like a kid will not share his toys with other unless he's forced to, or that a kid has a weird tendency to kick puppies because he thinks it's funny). -Cutting it here to avoid dragging my opinion forever-

So that's my opinion, seeing as our society rules itself in a "award and punishment" system and that there are way too much evil compared to good around here, it's easy to say so. Sure, there's still the psychological factor of where the people are raised on and such, but I can't drag this forever on a forum. So I'll end it here.

So, what's your opinion on this?

TL;DR Version:
Fuck you >:0

Yeah, I'm THAT bored at work right now D:

[yonokowhat]

heaven is white

hell is black

black is evil

BALCK PEOPLE ARE EVIL!
DUN DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUUN

[Xgsniper]

I believe that human beings are born neutral. As they live, different conflicts and encounters take place and depending on how that particular human perceives those things and the reactions to their actions they will align themselves. People do different psyches and that plays a big factor, they can lead towards a different way of thinking but even hitler could have been a saint if the conditions were right.

[Interimo]

A human naturally does what is best for himself with disregard for others. However, most are swayed to either side by influential factors, such as environment, raising, interests, etc.

[Ericho]

At 12/14/10 02:38 PM, yonokowhat wrote: heaven is white

hell is black

The funniest thing is that neither Jean Jacques Rousseu or Frederich Nietzsche were religious, so I doubted they believed in either. I would have to go on Rousseu's side because I believe that everyone can have good born into them as evolution as shown us. We can look at hatred as something in evolution that we have not worked out, but a minority has it anyway.

[SlayerX3]

At 12/14/10 02:38 PM, yonokowhat wrote: heaven is white

hell is black

black is evil

BALCK PEOPLE ARE EVIL!
DUN DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUUN

I'm OK with this

Stating the obvious right there.

[GiantDouche]

At 12/14/10 02:35 PM, Xionico wrote: And distorting Nietzsche's take on this matter a bit. One could say that the human is naturally evil but is thaught good.

Yep. All Nietzsche was about was classifying people into moral categories. Really hit the nail on the head there.

[Rude-Awakening]

Humans are meant to survive. Morals and ethics are the things of which we have created. The fact survive is now irrelevant; its not what you do but how, and to survive and prosper on the backs of others or by exploiting the weak then fine. It's what people will do to survive, nothing to do with good or evil.

[MiroDK]

I'm just gonna copy + paste what I posted on the other topic you made at the video game forum.

I don't think we can say if people are born good or evil, I'd say there are genetic tendencies for each person, and society intensifies that, or the person learns to oppress it.

If I were to generalize, then I would agree with Rousseau, people are naturally born as good people, but end up being corrupted by others.

[HomicidialFrog]

Good and Evil don't exist.

Now you may be thinking "What about the Nazi's? They were evil!".

Well, if you went back to the good ol' 40's and ask a Nazi what he thinks of you. You'll be suprised that despite the murdering, slaughtering, racism etc. He can actually justify why he does what he does.

And from there, you'll either say "That doesn't justify it!" and still think he's evil or you'll go "Hmm, I don't particularly agree with your views, but I can see how you can justify it. However, I am idealogically opposed to your beliefs and think they are wrong."

Hey, he may even be a pretty nice guy if you're not Jewish or Black!

Or if you're a Neo-Nazi, you'll agree with him. Personally, I think Nazi's are assholes and there's no justification for them.

However, that doesn't make me a hypocrite. But I understand that in they're minds, I'm the "Evil" one. And they're the "Good guys."

In other words: Good and Evil don't really exist. We're all out to better our world by our beliefs and some of us don't think we can so we don't try and just help out ourselves, or we've had something bad happen to us and made us into to some kind of Sadist, Sociopathe or Psychopathe.

The only problem is, is that most of the time we try to convince ourselves that the other side is Evil. And we're the good ones.

Look at the 50's Red Scare. Capitalism is the opposite of Communism and naturally the people who support one side will despise the other and try to make them look "Evil.".

Both of them aren't good or bad, they have flaws but they have good points to them. Communism is about Equality, Loyalty and Hard Work. Is there anything evil about that? No. But it has flaws like the fact that it's easily corruptable by the Government. (Soviet Union anyone?)

Capitalism is about a Free Market, Individualism and other things. But it's not an equal society and there's poverty for those who aren't successful. And the whole society worships Money and the Greedy and Selfish prosper. Does that sound so "Good" to you?

When it comes down to it, none of these "Political Ideas" really are "Good". And there will never be one that will ever be Good, because Humanity by nature will want to always be changing things they don't agree with. And they're new "Idea" won't be perfect. And when it comes down to it, how we decide which idea is best is always by War. And always will be by War. And that is the nature of Humanity. When Humanity makes one good thing happen, it will be followed by a bad thing.

The world is grey.

[KemCab]

At 12/14/10 02:35 PM, Xionico wrote: Basically, the question is. Is the human born good or evil?

This presumes the existence of absolute morality, so neither.

[Metal-Loving-Medic]

If you want to put everything in an, Evil/Good perspective I suppose. Atleast until the human is intelligent enough to make a self-interested move (which will inevitable), THEN, you could label him/her evil.

[KemCab]

Also, Nietzsche didn't believe in good and evil.

Quote from this source:

"The fundamental belief of the metaphysicians is the belief in the opposition of values. Even the most careful among them has never had the idea of raising doubts right here on the threshold, where such doubts are surely most essential, even when they promised themselves "de omnibus dubitandum" [one must doubt everything]. For we are entitled to doubt, first, whether such an opposition of values exists at all and, second, whether that popular way of estimating worth and that opposition of values, on which the metaphysicians have imprinted their seal, are perhaps only evaluations made in the foreground, only temporary perspectives, perhaps even a view from a corner, perhaps from underneath, a frog's viewpoint, as it were, to borrow an expression familiar to painters."

[Elsid]

Birds are evil.

[XenonMonkey]

Jesus Christ, are you in my English class?

We're going over the exact same thing.

[Dr-Worm]

We're hardwired for cooperation far more than aggression. That's how our close relatives (monkeys and apes) survive, that's how our ancestors survived, that's how civilizations were built and maintained, and that's how the vast majority of human interaction plays out. I guess you could call this a "good" thing, but Nietzsche would disagree...

[KillerGoose]

Arguments of evil and good are constantly raised.

Some bicker that evil has been there from the first presence of the universe, a force that stirred from its rest in order to combat all that is just and good. But this raises another question? How could something from the human mind possibly exist before the time of our existence?

Can just and good actually exist when it becomes something that is often manipulated and twisted by mankind? To me, it can't. I'm not a firm believer in the existence of good or evil, only the ideal of balance.

[InsertFunnyUserName]

At 12/14/10 03:56 PM, CashClock wrote: Good and Evil don't exist.

Exactly what I was going to say.

To claim that human nature is good or evil is half way to an oxymoron. Both ideas are societal constructs based on our own respective morals. Any of our morals can be taken down to a subjective level. For example, why is harming someone wrong? What is your suffering to me? What does wrong mean, anyways? Describe right and wrong without a circular argument. It's not what we should and shouldn't do. I shouldn't stab myself in the foot; that doesn't make it morally reprehensible. It's not what harms others because what makes that wrong? Circular argument. So what does it mean? The answer is that it's a value that is based in itself. It is thus cultural and subjective.

So what we classify as evil is actually defined as what deviates from the social norms that we call morality. A person cannot be born evil because s/he is only defying society and nothing more.

[Damien]

At 12/14/10 05:20 PM, InsertFunnyUserName wrote: Exactly what I was going to say.

Poetry
So what we classify as evil is actually defined as what deviates from the social norms that we call morality. A person cannot be born evil because s/he is only defying society and nothing more.

Your words. They are so beautiful...

[GiantDouche]

I wish I could rephrase Nietzsche as eloquently as you all.

[Lintire]

At 12/14/10 05:29 PM, Damien wrote: Your words. They are so beautiful...

No, they're just true.

Morality is a concept, an idea, and judging people based on morals is a terrible idea. Judging humanity more so.

Humans aren't born good or evil. Good and evil don't damn well exist. Humans are born human.

[darkrchaos]

There is no such thing as Good and Evil. It's all based on what we believe is Good and Evil. Most people do stuff for Good reason even if fells Evil to other. Every few people do stuff just to be mean.

[KemCab]

At 12/14/10 05:48 PM, GiantDouche wrote: I wish I could rephrase Nietzsche as eloquently as you all.

There is no need to rephrase Nietzsche -- it's not like we'd be adding anything by doing so.

[GiantDouche]

At 12/14/10 06:18 PM, KemCab wrote:

At 12/14/10 05:48 PM, GiantDouche wrote: I wish I could rephrase Nietzsche as eloquently as you all.

There is no need to rephrase Nietzsche -- it's not like we'd be adding anything by doing so.

Yeah but everyone seems to be doing just that.

[KemCab]

At 12/14/10 06:20 PM, GiantDouche wrote:

At 12/14/10 06:18 PM, KemCab wrote:

At 12/14/10 05:48 PM, GiantDouche wrote: I wish I could rephrase Nietzsche as eloquently as you all.

There is no need to rephrase Nietzsche -- it's not like we'd be adding anything by doing so.

Yeah but everyone seems to be doing just that.

Exactly.

[GiantDouche]

Also has anyone noticed that "Rousseau or Nietzsche?" fits in the title with 13 characters to spare?

[yonokowhat]

I dont really know the question your asking.

this is why I hate you cunts, you cant be assed to sum up a fucking brick of text into one sentenace I could just read and take a swing at. I dont even know what you trying to acheive/learn. What is good an evil? I dont know baked muffins

[TheSporkLord]

It all depends on one's views of what " good " and " evil " are. I believe that most of the slaughter and cruelty we enconunter is something that is hard wired into us and can't be helped. Therefore I wouldn't call it " bad "

[Xionico]

At 12/14/10 04:40 PM, XenonMonkey wrote: Jesus Christ, are you in my English class?

We're going over the exact same thing.

I Doubt it, as I live in Mexico. D:

And fuck, maybe I slightly raped Niezsche's Philosophy with what I posted...I blame my philosophy teacher >:c!

[IDropedMyBiscuit]

Every person is born with both good and bad tendencies but it is up to us as individuals to chose which way we rather be.