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Damn :( Was half way through the first music vid I've made in a long time, and then this comes along.
Ahh well, doubt I'll have got it finished by Christmas anyway, but I guess it is a good thing after all, hopefully a huge surge in creative and piss funny toons!
I was wondering. For the audio portal, could we just download the music and give credit in our flash movies, or do we have to directly contact them for permission BEFORE we download their music and give them credit in our flash.
Yeah when I first started animating I was using stuff like that.
Then I learned about copyrights and how much better off things are when original.
I support this!
oh well, as long as I stay non-profit and don't overdo it I should be alright...I hope...
also a picture, 'cuz pictures are nice.
At 12/10/10 11:47 AM, AngelofPeace wrote: Fuck this shit. Maybe you all aren't aware of the "fair use" clause in the copyright law which basically says you can't use someone else's work for lucrative purposes, but you my use it for instructional and other non-profit ends.
There is profit with ad revenue.
seriously though tom fulp, ur stifling mah creativity! all of my best cartoons rely on copywritten music, and they wouldn't work with music from the audio portal. i am now going to promote my wonderful flash masterpieces under the guise that i am using them as evidence to back up this anti-copywrite sentiment.
"CadillacClock <3 BluZombie" is the funniest flash i have submitted. it is full of 100% pure clock crew style humour. and it is a music video! it would not work with any other audio.
and how could i have made "SBC vs Pico RocknRoll-off" without authentic rocknroll musics?? and, as i love to toot my own horn like some sort of obsessive compulsive clown, i thought it was pretty witty of me to combine Carl Perkins and Elvis Presley into one track like that.
and now that i have finished with my shameless self-promotion, i just want to reply to the people in this thread who are saying that this is a good thing, because it will make the flash more original. but Alan Moore proved to the world with The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen that original art can be created through the use of pre-existing properties, and since reading that comic, i have viewed copyright as being a very annoying set of laws that stands in the way of an artist and his vision. in that comic, Alan Moore is forced to mainly use characters in the public domain. i sometimes like to imagine a world where everything is in the public domain, and a piece of art can use any characters or any music or any photograph that the artist desires. i imagine a lot of great works being created in this world.
omg, tl;dr, why did i even type all that??? it is not like a poorly written post on an internet forum is going to make it okay to break copyright law, so i am clearly wasting my time by typing this. ugh, this post is awful. if i had any dignity, i would not press the 'Post it! >' button. still...
I KNOW NOTHING!
At 12/10/10 11:20 AM, TomFulp wrote: Also dicks are still ok.
What I get out of this is not saying "do not under any circumstances because we don't allow it" but more of a "we won't be sponsoring, giving you awards, prize money, front page space if you use copyrighted music/art" and also a PSA about how to keep yourselves from being stomped on by the big companies.
Timmy said earlier that in order to even be able to claim "fair use", even if you are fully in the right, you will still have to go through the legal hoops just to get into the court room which is TIME INTENSIVE and CRAZY EXPENSIVE.
Intellectual property lawyers are specialized in the trade and your local buddy who graduated law school may not know enough about it to help you even if you think "oh hey, I know Bobby, he's about to graduate law school, he'll help me out" and then you go and throw some tweens onto a Justin Beiber song only to have the full force of a 98lb 13 year old with a gazzillion bucks and a team of lawyers knocking down your door....bobby might barely know the first thing about IP....he may have specialized in something lame like family law...hell, he probably won't be able to represent you in a federal court if they sue you because you live in Nevada and the Beibs lives in LA and Bobby is only able to work in Buttfuck nowhere Wisconsin because their bar association doesn't look too deeply at pesky police reports of dead hookers and culverts. Now you're up shit creek without a paddle and about to get metaphorically teabagged by some middle-schooler who has seizures on stage and makes little girls scream and pass out.
¥ ♡ ¥ BBS, Review and Chat Mod - PM for help or to snitch! ¥ ♡ ¥
¥ ♡ ¥ Blag [updated: 1/2/2016] ¥ ♡ ¥
At 12/10/10 11:20 AM, TomFulp wrote: The next time you are inspired to make an animation about a cool song you heard on the radio, DON'T, unless you are comfortable with the idea of only sharing it with yourself and a few close friends. Otherwise, take that inspiration and find a song you have permission to use. There are thousands of artists in the Audio Portal who are available for that sort of thing, as well as independent artists across the web who can be contacted for permission.
Newgrounds will be a better place if everyone here learns to work together instead of turning outward for resources. If you need a background, song, title screen, etc., someone here can help you with it. We will continue to work to make that easier, because there is no alternative.
Well it's a good thing that I already got Space-Whale's permission to use their song in my game... or I would probably be in trouble (I also put him/her in the credits page)
--- BREAKING NEWS ---
If you live in or near Philadelphia, don't miss your chance to visit Bob at the Punk Rock Flea Market tomorrow, Saturday, December 11th. Print out his blog post and bring it in exchange for a $5 Penicorn!
Talk about luck (atleast for me)
At 12/10/10 04:10 PM, Malachy wrote: Intellectual property lawyers are specialized in the trade and your local buddy who graduated law school may not know enough about it to help you even if you think "oh hey, I know Bobby, he's about to graduate law school, he'll help me out"
I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on TV. :/
so no more ren and stimpy music?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
At 12/10/10 04:15 PM, bob wrote:At 12/10/10 04:10 PM, Malachy wrote: Intellectual property lawyers are specialized in the trade and your local buddy who graduated law school may not know enough about it to help you even if you think "oh hey, I know Bobby, he's about to graduate law school, he'll help me out"I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on TV. :/
Another reason not to pay his retainer, people! five BJs and a handjob may seem like a great deal at the time...
¥ ♡ ¥ BBS, Review and Chat Mod - PM for help or to snitch! ¥ ♡ ¥
¥ ♡ ¥ Blag [updated: 1/2/2016] ¥ ♡ ¥
I learned my lesson with the copyright music deal when it lost me money for my C-3PO short, but does this mean if it contains, like, movie soundtrack stuff it's not even going to be front paged? I'll try to find an alternative...in fact, I'm strongly considering taking up music composition / keyboarding classes specifically so I can compose original scores. But I agree, this could tidy things up, and quite possibly give the Audio Portal some much needed support.
...which btw, when will collabs be possible in Audio Submissions?
Need to say, as an advocate of original work, I always think that projects come out way better when the resources are tailored to the "skeleton" of the work, not the other way around.
I'm liking this change a lot, imagination/originality FTW.
Oh man, I actually recently took a Red Hot Chili Peppers song off of one of my old sprite flash submissions recently to something in the Audio Portal. Cool 2 know though.
At 12/10/10 04:25 PM, TomFulp wrote:At 12/10/10 04:16 PM, MrAbnormal wrote: so no more ren and stimpy music?It's been done to death anyway. Time for something new!
On boy time to find new music for our cartoon. :P
Fair use has no use against a large company with expensive lawyers.
I assume Newgrounds makes a profit, and it's got a significant amount of copyrighted material on it. Just because the individual user might not be pulling in money, ads are on each page.
Yeah we're losing something we enjoy, but we've had our fun. I think it's a step in the right direction.
"Animation is not the art of drawings that move, but the art of movements that are drawn." -Norman McLaren
WAIT! What if we, the users, did unique covers of songs that we absolutely want to include? As if Ronnie James Dio (R.I.P.) would have a problem with us having our own performances of, for example, "Holy Diver" like Killswitch and many other bands have. Hell, we could even submit the MP3 to the Audio Portal. Is that okay?
What a day did I pick to check out Newgrounds again...
While I understand the legal necessity for this announcement, I do admit I am saddened by it. It's not just parodies, but good, transformative fan works that are thrown under the bus and will have no large scale venues for viewers. I definitely am of the belief that original work, no matter how terrible it is, is of more societal value than even the best fanart, but unsolicited and an unauthorized fan works have their place as well, and it need not necessarily be under a rock.
This, I suppose is the double-edged sword of Newgrounds' growth. With great audience comes great responsibility. It's just sad because unlike some other popular sites, there is a relatively higher bar for submitting a material. It's a lot harder to make even a short sprite Flash movie to a music video than it is to set up, record, and trim a clip of oneself unpacking a box, but according to the eyes of the law, the former is copyright infringement and lawsuit-bait, and the latter is okay,
Besides, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect the original post was reverse psychology at work.
I think forcing flash makers to only use original material is totally worth it. Although Super Mario Bros Z, the best sprite flash series (and, yes, only one of a few that are any good at all) at this point could make its own sprites, if it weren't for the fact that the sprites he uses for the main characters are the best ones in the universe. I don't see how anyone could possibly make sprites any better than the ones from the games they were taken from.
Okay, I guess sprite animations are off limits to this since they are still covered under the parody clauses... BUT, what I'm hearing hear is that when we submit our fully drawn animations for instance we are not going to be allowed to use copyrighted sound effects or say music from bands like Disturbed and Lamb of God?
"Help those in need, or no one else will..."
WARNING - NOT SAFE FOR WORK LINKS BELOW! DO NOT CLICK IF YOUR A MINOR OR SENSITIVE TO PORNOGRAPHIC MATERIAL- THIS IS ADDRESSING A RATHER UNSUAL ISSUE ON NEWGROUNDS.
"The next time you need art for your game or movie, DO NOT image search Google and grab something from the results. Many of those items are registered with enforcement agencies that will levy strict penalties for unlicensed use."
Tom, as commendable as it is...you're seriously gonna have to clean up the portal of all sorts of Hentai garbage because it crosses the line of what you just wrote.
So that means that all "Porn Slide Shows" should be removed as well. That includes images used in so called "Quizes"
God I keep wondering why these flashes keep passing judgement! Ever time I see them under judgement I'm always "whistling" them. I don't mind Hentai. But it's NOT OKAY if it's just grabbed stuff from Google and put in a flash game. Or even worse, they rip off another flash or copyrighted game/movie and render it a bit or animate over it.
I fully believe that one artist who submits anything, should do it by themselves or at the very least credit where they got their sources from. And this goes for all forms of flash submissions. But I notice it more so with so called "Hentai Slide Shows" or "Rips off Hentai games" produced in Japan. Over seas editing has some issues but it's still not right to submit them as your own.
I know Hentai is such an odd thing for me to talk about. But it's the matter of artist ownership. Every time I go under the "Flash Portal" page and try to judge newcomers to the Portal, I keep seeing all these original flashes get blamed and Hentai submissions get passed.
I mean...WHAT THE F*CK PEOPLE! Don't you care what eats up memory on Newgrounds?
Often these submissions feature stollen or un-cited work. And too many of them are cluttering Newgrounds and giving it a bad rep.
You didn't have to play these games before to know they were stollen or rips or heavy editing from originals.
Here's a short list of various examples of good and bad situations.
Stolllen or Heavily edited Hentai games from Japan
If Hentai is going to be added in a collection...shouldn't it be "original" works of Hentai art?
And not some stupid quiz with images from Google.
AND THIS ONE MADE IT IN A COLLECTION.
God...Newgrounds isn't suppose to be a "Fap-Feast"
it's suppose to be a place to submit one's own content to be admired for it's quality or originality.
And should one "Fap" to one's original work...then the deed of submitting one's own Hentai has been accomplished with gusto.
An example of "ORIGINAL" Hentai works is from our own Zone Sama.
And if she parodies something...she always makes legal claims to it being a parody.
*I do have some issues with her parodying children TV shows but whatever. She's in the right compared to other NG thieves.
There are however some issues with some Hentai games that are enjoyable because of it's structure.
This one I have played and I found it to be hilarious! But I still notice something of a means of cheating. An animation copying over someone else's animation from a Japanese production?
And then there are the artists who I wrote positive reviews about their submissions because they tried so hard to make it work.
Joe silver is no Zone Sama...but his efforts and sweat really show in this "original" flash submission.
On a few occasions he was informed that they were stollen onto other sites.
Pornographic arts should still be protected with the same rights as other flash submissions.