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At 11/20/10 09:34 AM, liljim wrote: Anyone know the correct term for these things?

Well, if there is a term for it, I certainly don't know it.
Although I found this webpage that might have the answer you're looking for.

At 11/20/10 09:34 AM, liljim wrote: I'm after a bit of advice here... I've been thinking about what to get my Mum for Christmas and I know she'd seen these paintings that you can hang on your garden fences and walls.

Anyone know the correct term for these things?

Googling "canvas outdoors" should get you some shops

What happened to your icon man. I've been noticing you have always changed your icon but the other admins has not.

At 11/20/10 01:08 PM, liljim wrote: Listen, the art forum description and rules are (or shortly to be were) outdated. The art forum was originally put in place as a stop gap before the art portal came about, which happened a long time ago. If you can't discuss art in a forum dedicated to art without having to upload a picture or screenshot of something you've created, it's a pretty sorry state of affairs. Users posting to the programming forum aren't expected to post a completed program every time they make a new thread.

I didn't know this. Is this some sort of conspiracy that you've kept from all the art forum regs this whole time? You mean we've been reminding people of the rules while our rules were already outdated it the first place?

At 11/20/10 01:26 PM, big-jonny-13 wrote: OH MY GOD!!!!

I appear to have stumbled onto some sort of conspiracy with liljim at the center of it all!!!!!

Why aren't you on stickam boy!

At 11/20/10 01:26 PM, big-jonny-13 wrote: OH MY GOD!!!!

I appear to have stumbled onto some sort of conspiracy with liljim at the center of it all!!!!!

Zip your face Big-J! There will be no talk of Newgrounds conspiracies.

Do you want to have us all killed?

Dear golden gods,
I`d like to apologize for my sons behaviour, and like to stress that I will take full responsibility for his reckless actions; Hes only a kid, and boys will be boys, he gets carried away... you know how it is.
Also on behalf of that scoundrel legolass that he hangs out with, my sincere apologies.

At 11/20/10 01:26 PM, big-jonny-13 wrote: I appear to have stumbled onto some sort of conspiracy with liljim at the center of it all!!!!!

You and me need to have a little talk young man!

Gee, golly gosh, little jimmy. It sure was swell of you to meander on over here for...what? the second time in four years... and decide that you know what's best for art forum. And thanks heaps for notifying the people that try to enforce those rules, day in and day out, that you went ahead and changed them to suit your needs. Nothing like some top-notch communication to really bring the whole 'team' together, huh?!

We appreciate you stopping by. Now hop back on your big wheel and scurry on back to general before anyone realizes you're gone. It's almost nap time!! Afterwords we can all have some milk and cookies... and draw silly animal pictures with our new crayons ...won't that be neato!?!

I'm a little confused and disappointed.
We want rules that work for the forum not ones that change on the fly to suit one persons whim.

At 11/20/10 02:35 PM, liljim wrote: I discussed the changes with Jose, Luis and Goldfish before making the changes.

Well that's just fantastic... I look forward to seeing them around more so they can enforce these changes that you've put into place. They're good people...should be fun.

Everyone! The guy who has a weird icon said that the rules are no longer important! Let's start a riot!

RIOT! In the forums???

At 11/20/10 02:35 PM, liljim wrote:

At 11/20/10 02:05 PM, ReNaeNae wrote: Nothing like some top-notch communication to really bring the whole 'team' together, huh?!

I discussed the changes with Jose, Luis and Goldfish before making the changes. We were all in agreement that they were necessary - the art portal is a place to showcase your work (the original point of the art forum, as the art portal wasn't around at the point of its inception). I'd be surprised if Tom thinks any differently. In fact, I'm going to call him now and ask him what he thinks. I'll get back to you on what he thinks... I'll get back on that.

I'm probably not in any place to say this, but I think that the art forum knows what's best for the art forum more than the admins do. They may own and run this site, but that doesn't mean that they know what works and what doesn't work in every part of the site better than the people who use those parts.

All respect towards you guys, but as a regular in this forum, and only this forum, I have to agree with the mods. You fail to realize one major thing: not much real critique is given in the art portal. Comments are given, sure, but not much that's actually substantial. Regardless of the standing of this place as a showcase forum, that rule allows this place to be a place to go to get the real critique that's rare in the portal.

I'm pretty sure people who never come to this forum shouldn't have such overbearing power and influence on the rules and regulations of this forum. Maybe the people that actually, oh I don't know, moderate this forum and the other people that hang out here every day should have the say.
But since Liljim knows all, lets follow his logic. Why don't we let all of the tourists from other countries barge in and take over America's polls and vote for our next president? That should be fun!

Art is gay and so is this forum.

See, if it was all relevant, good discussions, I don't think anybody would have complaints.

This is the internet we're talking about, though. What the regulars are simulating in the forum right now is what people are worried about happening. Exaggerated, yes, but still certainly possible. We pride ourselves on being nothing like DeviantART here, and that rule helps to keep us in such a state.
I see where you're coming from and I do understand what you're thinking, but I just don't trust the train of thought. It's too precarious.

At 11/20/10 02:49 PM, Kakashi1930 wrote: But since Liljim knows all, lets follow his logic. Why don't we let all of the tourists from other countries barge in and take over America's polls and vote for our next president? That should be fun!

Following jims logic we can just get out our rifles and shoot them all in the heads! cause like the rules against that are outdated anyways.

As much as I love the art portal and think it's grand, it's a showcase. Plain and simple. The idea that the art portal would replace the art forum is like saying that the flash portal should render the flash forum useless. It doesn't. The art forum is about community, at least to me. I'm not sure how contests, community activities, or other things could be run solely with the art portal.

"If you can't discuss art in a forum dedicated to art without having to upload a picture or screenshot of something you've created, it's a pretty sorry state of affairs."

Is it really though? Art is a visual medium. I don't think this rule is meant to oppress anyone like North Korean child laborers. Having a picture at the start of the topic simply helps people know what you're talking about. For example, I have no idea what Garden Wall Art is. I wouldn't post a programming problem in the programming forum without first stating the language I was programming in.

As much as I'd love to follow your orders jim, I think doing this would ruin the art forum. I mean, how about undiscovered talent huh? Where will they ever post their works now? In the unscouted section? But no one could ever see them. Because people rarely visit that place. Like what the hell dude?

At 11/20/10 02:52 PM, liljim wrote:

At 11/20/10 02:43 PM, Luxembourg wrote: You fail to realize one major thing: not much real critique is given in the art portal.

Are you saying that everyone who leaves reviews in the flash and audio portals are animators or musicians?

Did he say that? No, he didn't. Don't assume shit.
If not, what's the difference?
I don't know shit about flash, so will I be able to give any real critique? Not really. I can say "oh, its stupid, it isnt funny and the guy looks retarted." while an actual flash artist can say "the lipsynching isn't exact with the character. maybe by editing the <correct flash term here> it will work better!"
Isn't that a lot more worthwhile?
Same thing goes for art. In the art portal, people can say "it doesnt look good" or "i dont like sonic porn. 0" and nothing good comes out of it. we actually say "oh, the lines areound such-and-such are a little bit blurry" or "the smuged charcoal was overdone. try picking some excess us with putty" or something CONSTRUCTIVE. You cant expect someone with no knowledge to give an in-depth and analytical comment.
Flash artists and Musicians still have their own forums to discuss different forms of what they do and allow aspiring artists in those respective fields to ask questions.
Yup,, we have that to. I THOUGHT thats what this was O.o
Are those artists expected to post a link to a flash animation at the beginning of each thread they make, or post a link to one of their audio entries?
Flash animations can be lengthy,, as can audio, but nevetheless, it is easier to comment and help when you can actually see or listen to what they are talking about. The written text isn't alwasys as easy to understand as a hands on image or song or what have you.

You're saying that the art forum should act completely differently, be exclusive to artists only?

Well, and I quote, "Flash artists and Musicians still have their own forums to discuss different forms of what they do and allow aspiring artists in those respective fields to ask questions." I saw nothing about people that dont know anything about flash or audio coming in and asking questions. People that come to the art forum are learning art or like art or try to do art. We arent necessarily an art FAQ that will like you to pretty garden wall art. we help people that draw or paint or whatever improve or at least tellthem whats wrong or try to help.
What if someone new comes along and doesn't know the first thing about it, but ... ugh, I gave up the will to continue this sentence.
Thats because your argument is completely pointless and you shouldn't ave the right to change this forum with no firsthand experience save the fact that someone showed you the rules and you are too egotistical to apologize and abide by them.

Comments are given, sure, but not much that's actually substantial. Regardless of the standing of this place as a showcase forum, that rule allows this place to be a place to go to get the real critique that's rare in the portal.

I don't see how that would change much interspersed with a few relevant, on topic questions and discussions, or what the big deal is, really.

Luxembourg said pretty much the same that I did earlier in this post, and its pretty clear what the difference is. The comment that come out of the art portal are almost (note, almost) what the comments are in dA*. Completely useless and no one really gives any good criticism, just hate comments or "omg nice piece."

*Newgrounds can never be as bad as dA. Never.

At 11/20/10 03:14 PM, liljim wrote:

At 11/20/10 03:04 PM, ImpendingRiot wrote: The idea that the art portal would replace the art forum is like saying that the flash portal should render the flash forum useless.

I am saying exactly the opposite of that. I just don't understand what the point of an ART forum is if you can't DISCUSS ART without actually producing some in every single thread, other than an art forum lounge where I'd be equally as unwelcome, for fuck's sake.

Well I'm in agreement then, I guess I was just confused by what you meant when you said that the art forum was intended to be a placeholder of sorts until the art portal was made. All I'm saying is that I value this place for different reasons than I value the art portal, and that I think some of the rules certainly help provide stability.

I'm not personally attacking you, and I appreciate your response.

At 11/20/10 03:14 PM, liljim wrote: I am saying exactly the opposite of that. I just don't understand what the point of an ART forum is if you can't DISCUSS ART without actually producing some in every single thread, other than an art forum lounge where I'd be equally as unwelcome, for fuck's sake.

Since when are people unwelcomed to post, when has this ever been a problem?\
People come looking for help all the time, they come here, and whether they are grand masters or literally just starting out, they post an example of what they can do.

if we don't have that example we have no idea how good or bad they are and we can't help them improve. same thing for discussion. "I'm having trouble with watercolors, here's what keeps happening [picture]" people usually find help in the lounge, because it's a thread almost all of us go to.

Pretty much everyone is against this for a reason, the old system worked, it could use a revamp but just getting rid of rules is not the revamp it needed. Consulting other staff members that have even less to do with the art forum doesn't make us feel better either.

At 11/20/10 03:14 PM, liljim wrote:

At 11/20/10 03:04 PM, ImpendingRiot wrote: The idea that the art portal would replace the art forum is like saying that the flash portal should render the flash forum useless.

I am saying exactly the opposite of that. I just don't understand what the point of an ART forum is if you can't DISCUSS ART without actually producing some in every single thread, other than an art forum lounge where I'd be equally as unwelcome, for fuck's sake.

Here's the thing: you might not understand what the internet conception of an "aspiring artist" is. It's much less appealing than the average aspiring musician or animator. "Art discussion" in many places on the internet (namely DeviantArt) is devolved to what you see happening in the art forum right now. If everybody wanted to discuss nice topics like you do, that'd be great, but I honestly don't have enough faith in humanity to expect that to happen.

The rules could be changed, I think (because you do have a point about discussions), but I honestly think it should be up to Kraig, Nae, Turkey, Ornery, and Ben how they're changed, if at all.