I put my heart and soul into this

[LarxII]

Screw all technique, all formalities, etc., etc. this is how I feel right now and I just want to express it

Living without you,
Is like living without my heart.
I try to move on,
But with no idea where to start
I cannot keep moving
This sorrow is like rust on my frame
My love for you,
Still an undying flame

How can I move on,
When you where my life?
How can I love again,
When I left it with you?
How can I rebuild,
When you where my rock?
How can I live?

I hope it's still in your eyes.
The love you had for me,
I hope it never died.

[LarxII]

I realize I mistyped two parts where, where was supposed to be were. But I seriously just typed this just now. I miss my ex and I wanted to let it out so I did just that.

[Deathcon7]

I find strucutured, pointed poetry helps me alleviate emotional stress more so than stream of conscious writing. In the end I feel more frustrated because my thoughts come out jumbled and nagging the point. The first time I wrote a real poem, it was about the anxiety I was feeling, and in those 20 or so lines I felt the anxiety really fuel the poem. In the end, it turned out to be a better poem than I thought it would be.

My advice, if you're feeling that low and you want to express it in poetry, try using a form and putting as much thought into making it the best possible poem. In the end, you'll find that the soul searching for the right words and expression, help to release the pent up emotions.

[DeftAndEvil]

I like the Stream of Consciousness better than say a sonnet. Although the ideas are unedited, raw and somewhat incoherent, those qualities are what make the poem or writing special, and sometimes, more interesting.

[Deathcon7]

Stream of conscious, I think, is a better tool as a writing practice, to vent ideas. As an expression, I find it similar to taking random colors while painting, and attacking the canvas with it. It's chaotic, it's raw, and it's unitelligible. There is no connection between the colors, no expression in it's abstract nature. Unless you're objective is chaos in the case of the paiting, you won't be getting anywhere.

While writing is a bit different from painting, a lot of the same rules apply. Writing is all about delivery. While it can be up to interpretation, how it's delivered affects how effective it will be when the piece is read publicly. It's for this reason that poetry demands depersonalization. Stream of Conscious writing is so personalized and intimate to the person, there is nothing to be taken from it when put up for public consumption.

For that reason, Stream of Consciousness writing should only be used as a personal tool. If you want to express yourself effectively to others, putting more thought into your work is a requirement, with the first step being depersonalizing the end result.

Ultimately, until you write an effective form poem, you won't be able to measure the effectives versus free form. I'm not discrediting the value of free-form, I believe too many people default to it because they do not know any better. I speak from personal experience.

[LarxII]

No offense guys but I don't care if you like it or not. I enjoyed pouring my soul out so that I could read back on it now and remember how I felt at that exact moment. I don't expect other people to feel like I did through this so I don't call it art. More of a journal of my conscience.

[spartan9999]

Beautiful man... just beautiful.

[TheLameSauce]

i think it's a little unfair to label all stream of conscious writing as chaotic and unintelligble. personally, i find that as long as you're honest in your attempt and truly uncovering your feelings as you write them, they add the element of discovery into your work. you can see ideas and emotion develop sentence by sentence. as this seems like a perfectly reasonable place to whore myself out, here is a stream of conscious piece of writing i did about a year ago on the same topic.

as for your specific poem like thing, it seems like you're holding back. you're leaning on cliche themes and phrases. use your words to express how you feel. not words that you've heard before that suffice in expressing your sentiment. use analogies derived from your personal experience. a more personal piece is more cathartic.

[TheLameSauce]

At 11/7/10 12:11 PM, TheLameSauce wrote: as this seems like a perfectly reasonable place to whore myself out, here is a stream of conscious piece of writing i did about a year ago on the same topic.

obviously, i decided against whoring myself out. i'm new to the internet.

[Dr-Worm]

At 11/7/10 12:11 PM, TheLameSauce wrote: as for your specific poem like thing, it seems like you're holding back. you're leaning on cliche themes and phrases. use your words to express how you feel. not words that you've heard before that suffice in expressing your sentiment. use analogies derived from your personal experience. a more personal piece is more cathartic.

Ah, yes! This is what I've been trying to say to all the people submitting these middle school diary-type woe-is-me poems on here, but you put it much better than I ever did.

At 11/3/10 05:15 PM, LarxII wrote: No offense guys but I don't care if you like it or not. I enjoyed pouring my soul out so that I could read back on it now and remember how I felt at that exact moment. I don't expect other people to feel like I did through this so I don't call it art. More of a journal of my conscience.

But even if that's all you're trying to do, you should still take note of what people are saying here. If you're only articulating your thoughts through cliches, then they're not really your thoughts, are they? Writing isn't necessarily all about expression or audience or art. It's also about facing your own thoughts and feelings and coming to terms with them. The better your writing is, the better you'll understand yourself.

[TheThing]

Before I jump in on the "stream of consciousness" debate, I would like to say that this is a fairly decent poem. Very emotional, very well written with some good literary devices, and while the rhymes are fairly generic and get lost at the end of the 2nd stanza, they're nice. overall, not a bad poem.

Now, as for the debate, I feel that a well-written and clear SoC is amazing, like in this poem Private (good old plug). The feelings are clear and the emotion is apparent. And this helped greatly in dealing with my own problems. On top of that, sometimes you just want to get your emotions out of your system, and trying to put it in rhyming lines can be difficult, and the emotion is lost. But that's just me; I find rhyming hard to do, so I would have to take my time and try to shoehorn rhymes in and I'd lose the feelings.

[linkslayer]

No offense but you sound like every other person who make's a poem when they're "Sad" about something or other

[LarxII]

I do agree that I will take what I can learn from people who criticize it. But at the same time then it becomes a little more generic if I do what they say I should right? All-in-all this is me. If you don't like it my feelings aren't hurt one bit, I enjoy expressing myself (and Soc makes me feel like I'm able to do that)

@Linkslayer and could it be that because they are the same mood that they sound "exactly" alike?

[Dr-Worm]

At 11/8/10 02:32 AM, LarxII wrote: But at the same time then it becomes a little more generic if I do what they say I should right?

Um, no. Constructive criticism doesn't just tell you what to do, it helps you to better find your own voice.

@Linkslayer and could it be that because they are the same mood that they sound "exactly" alike?

No, they sound exactly alike because the authors aren't trying very hard.

[Deathcon7]

At 11/8/10 04:09 AM, Dr-Worm wrote:

At 11/8/10 02:32 AM, LarxII wrote: But at the same time then it becomes a little more generic if I do what they say I should right?

Um, no. Constructive criticism doesn't just tell you what to do, it helps you to better find your own voice.

It's up to the person that is receiving the criticism to make what's being said and turn it into their own. A critic should be focused on helping someone improve on their technical skills, which will allow that person to add their own little twists. A critic shouldn't, if s/he is doing it right, inject their personal opinion, at least not without expressly stating it. The reason for that is because art is the practice of individual expression. You have the lease to express yourself as you'd like, but if you want to be considered 'good,' or if you look for general validation, then there are a set of technical rules you must first master. If you don't care about being good, and you simply want to express yourself, then, and maybe I'm just old fashion, it calls to question your motives for posting things on a public forum. If you do it for yourself, keep it private. Am I right?

@Linkslayer and could it be that because they are the same mood that they sound "exactly" alike?

No, they sound exactly alike because the authors aren't trying very hard.

There is a distinction that should be made here. I don't think it's a matter of the author not trying hard, I think it's a matter of every inexperienced poet using the same bad techniques. The problem lies in lack of knowledge of the format, rather than a lack of effort. For that reason, I always encourage the writer to better understand prosody as a whole, in order to better apply it to their work. I don't think the OP wasn't trying hard; quite the contrary, I think the OP tried to put as much into it as s/he was able to, it's the lack of technique that made the poem seem generic.

[LarxII]

@ Dr.Worm Fuck you @everyone else thanks for the criticism.

[Dr-Worm]

At 11/8/10 07:47 AM, Deathcon7 wrote: It's up to the person that is receiving the criticism to make what's being said and turn it into their own. A critic should be focused on helping someone improve on their technical skills, which will allow that person to add their own little twists. A critic shouldn't, if s/he is doing it right, inject their personal opinion, at least not without expressly stating it. The reason for that is because art is the practice of individual expression.

Are you extrapolating on what I said or arguing against it? Because I think we're saying the same thing but misunderstanding each other. The OP was concerned that making changes based on constructive criticism would dilute his own voice. I was trying to say that that's not what constructive criticism does. I suppose I should've added "if they give it the right way and you take it the right way."

You have the lease to express yourself as you'd like, but if you want to be considered 'good,' or if you look for general validation, then there are a set of technical rules you must first master.

I think that generally, adhering to and utilizing the rules of the medium makes it easier to end up with something good. However, I don't think that we should be slaves to the rules. We shouldn't be afraid to bend or break them if it serves the work. Plus, I'd argue that truly great works tend to make a point of tossing the rules out the window and writing new ones. But doing this is extremely difficult, and probably far beyond the scope of any of us here.

If you don't care about being good, and you simply want to express yourself, then, and maybe I'm just old fashion, it calls to question your motives for posting things on a public forum. If you do it for yourself, keep it private. Am I right?

I'd say so. Though I think we have somewhat different definitions of "good" as it relates to this.

There is a distinction that should be made here. I don't think it's a matter of the author not trying hard, I think it's a matter of every inexperienced poet using the same bad techniques. The problem lies in lack of knowledge of the format, rather than a lack of effort.

I think that on this forum, it's usually a bit of both. I guess I should make what I said a little more clear. I don't think it's a conscious lack of effort. I just think that a lot of people don't realize that getting from the first word to the last word isn't the entire process of writing. In a short poem, every word (and its placement) counts, so it should still take a pretty decent amount of time to write. I suppose, though, that this could be seen in itself as bad technique. And that would certainly be a nicer way of putting it than "lack of effort," which has connotations that I didn't really intend.

For that reason, I always encourage the writer to better understand prosody as a whole, in order to better apply it to their work. I don't think the OP wasn't trying hard; quite the contrary, I think the OP tried to put as much into it as s/he was able to, it's the lack of technique that made the poem seem generic.

Eh, I dunno. This and a lot of other posts like it show some pretty clear signs of rushing. Again, a little of both. But I think we agree that it's not some kind of fundamental shortcoming of the author, it's just a matter of learning how to do it right.

At 11/9/10 01:11 AM, LarxII wrote: @ Dr.Worm Fuck you

See above. I wasn't trying to condemn you as a terrible person, I was just saying that poetry takes time and this didn't.

But come on, man, you even said that you "seriously just typed this just now," and you keep mentioning "right now" and "this exact moment." How can you get pissed at me for stating a fact that you've stated yourself several times on this thread?

Also, click "Reply & Quote" to respond to people. We don't do the "@" thing here.

[Deathcon7]

@Dr. Worm (yes I'm being facetious) We're both on the same side of the fence, I just happen to be closer to the wood in this particular argument. Had this thread occured 2 weeks sooner, I'm sure we would have seen things eye-to-eye. The fact of the matter is that in the past my approach was very caustic and I'm trying to become more delicate with regard to how I address critique and provide my opinion. I'm not saying I don't agree with you, I'm sure by now we've determined it's the contrary; my position in this argument, however, is to simultaneously point out the issue, while addressing it as delicately as possible. Proceed as you'd like, just keep in mind, as I have learned recently, the value of your truth is severely mitigated by the mode in which it is given. Especially so here.

And OP, if you want to post your work publicly, you should have to give allowances for negative reviews or opinions that conflict with yours; such is the case with public communication. You should also take comments at face value, rather than taking offense. Not everyone can, or is willing, to be sensitive to your ego; as such it is up to you to determine your objective and improve based on the quality of the critic, versus the method of delivery.

[chairmankem]

You put your heart and soul into writing something and all you could turn up was this?

As others have already said before, you're relying on clichéd themes and expressions to get your point across. That's exactly what it appears like to me: dull, unimaginative and overdone. It's break-up poetry. As you requested, I'm not going to analyze this for meter, rhyme, repetition, alliteration, et cetera. The poem can be summarized as follows.

First and second stanza: the speaker is obviously sad due to a breakup. The speaker states that he cannot move on or ever love again. Why? Is it because he was too emotionally immature to move on? Maybe he's a really clingy person. Who knows? Third stanza: an expression of vain hope that his ex has some feelings for him still, which is an unnecessary question anyway because if it's a yes, then it should be obvious to him, and if it's a no, then the speaker must have screwed up really badly and nonetheless it still should be quite obvious.

[LarxII]

At 11/9/10 12:33 PM, chairmankem wrote: You put your heart and soul into writing something and all you could turn up was this?

fuck you

As others have already said before, you're relying on clichéd themes and expressions

I wrote it how I write with no former studying of structure or anything else

First and second stanza: the speaker is obviously sad due to a breakup. The speaker states that he cannot move on or ever love again. Why? Is it because he was too emotionally immature to move on? Maybe he's a really clingy person. Who knows? Third stanza: an expression of vain hope that his ex has some feelings for him still, which is an unnecessary question anyway because if it's a yes, then it should be obvious to him, and if it's a no, then the speaker must have screwed up really badly and nonetheless it still should be quite obvious.

It's supposed to sound confused. Now, I'll admit it is very undeveloped but when you are truly in love with someone or as you said "emotionally immature" you don't have any clue on how to progress until you have closure. Also, The whole "emotionally immature" thing is really eating at me. Maybe it's not that I'm "emotionally Immature" but that you've become numb to your emotions. Maybe from being hurt or that you're more of a businessman type.

[Brandonhazswag]

Hey, some people, jump off his dick. I mean really? Poems are meant to express emotion. I don't care if it's shitty, if it is you don't say "it's shitty "do you? I happened to LIKE this poem considering it reached it's goal. But then again, Poem amke dude, learn this.

HATERS BE HATIN!

[LarxII]

See above. I wasn't trying to condemn you as a terrible person, I was just saying that poetry takes time and this didn't.
But come on, man, you even said that you "seriously just typed this just now," and you keep mentioning "right now" and "this exact moment." How can you get pissed at me for stating a fact that you've stated yourself several times on this thread?

Agreed, sorry for taking offense It just seems like instead of constructive criticism some people are just trying to piss me off without giving me a pointer as to why they didn't like it.

[Deathcon7]

Thats the most intellectually stimulating comment I've read this whole thread. So much so, I'm also tempted not to make the point to which I intended. Actually, I'll make it anyway and allow your genius perspective to dissect what it is i have to say.

What I intended to say, where it the case that your response was completely hollow and inane, was that before posting your opinion, you should first formulate one. I would have suggested you find your brain and provide intellectual critique as has been done by those whom you may have called into question.

Since you obviously know what you're talking about, and you've gone to great lengths to show as much, I guess my point is moot. However, please be aware, were you to in the future make such a post as was previously emphasized, you would most likely receive a response such as the above.

[Deathcon7]

At 11/10/10 06:57 PM, LarxII wrote: Agreed, sorry for taking offense It just seems like instead of constructive criticism some people are just trying to piss me off without giving me a pointer as to why they didn't like it.

Please note, you've been given a lot of pointers and have no reason to take offense what so ever. As proof of this, after given plenty of critique, you responded as follows:

No offense guys but I don't care if you like it or not. I enjoyed pouring my soul out so that I could read back on it now and remember how I felt at that exact moment. I don't expect other people to feel like I did through this so I don't call it art. More of a journal of my conscience.

Aside from improving your form and knowledge, one important pointer I can provide you, especially if you want to publicly display your work, is grow a thick skin and mature your understanding of critique. Otherwise, you're never going to get better. Take my comments as my desire to see you improve.

Good luck.

[TheLameSauce]

At 11/10/10 06:57 PM, LarxII wrote:

Agreed, sorry for taking offense It just seems like instead of constructive criticism some people are just trying to piss me off without giving me a pointer as to why they didn't like it.

i don't believe i ever said anything insulting towards you or your poetry. i really was trying to help.

[LarxII]

Not you, in fact a few people have weighed in and gave helpful criticism. But there's always those few. Idk probably just insecurity on my part.

[LarxII]

Thanks to everyone who has weighed in. Also I realize I HAVE been a dick in some parts of the thread. I also realize that I never made my point clear as to whether or not I cared about criticism. I do and very much appreciate those of you who constructively looked at this. Also, the fact I said that my feelings wouldn't be hurt by someone downing my work. It's harder than I thought, I need more time on here to really be able to adjust. I'm sorry for acting like I was (immaturity on my part) and I will make sure to read into things more before becoming offended. Although I still stand by what I said about the "emotionally Immature" thing. I believe that I should feel what I feel, but maybe act on it less XD.

[susanexpress]

At 11/3/10 10:15 AM, Deathcon7 wrote: In the end, you'll find that the soul searching for the right words and expression, help to release the pent up emotions.

Very reasonable. That's the way great works come out.