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Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems

10,174 Views | 14 Replies
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Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-27 19:03:47


Hello there!

For those who just want to answere my question;
So, whats the big difference between 44100Hz to 48000Hz?

For those who want to know why I would like to change the sample rate;
I've had this problem with FL Studio and exporting tracks, it came up like 2 weeks ago.
I'll try to explain even tough im sick and has a fever.
When I listen to the track in FL Studio the track sounds, hm, like its speeded up, like when you have a sample that is supposed to be on C5 and you press the C6 key in the piano roll, when I later export it as an mp3, wave, ogg whatever, it goes back to its normal state (It's just frustrating when it sounds like this in Fl and like that when you export it). So I've been trying to solve the problem, and I succeded!

When I change the sample rate from 44100Hz to 48000Hz or higher it sounds like it should in FL Studio.
Or when I change to ASIO4ALL v2, but I prefer to use Creative Asio.

So, whats the big difference between 44100Hz to 48000Hz?

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-27 22:00:50


You can read up on the sampling rate on Wikipedia, but for all practical purposes the quality is the same. According to the Nyquist theorem a 44.1 khz sampling rate can accurately represent frequencies up to 22 khz, which is 2 khz higher than the range of human hearing and 5 khz higher than the mosquito ring tone. Upping the rate to 48 khz will not add any audible information to the song, and thus should not make any audible difference.

In terms of FL Studio though, you definitely want to use 44.1 khz. Image-Line warns that changing the sample rate could result in errors and distortion, and strongly urges using only 44.1 khz.

The problem you described is a time stretching issue, and shouldn't have anything to do with the sample rate. Do this test: With a 44.1 khz sample rate, create a blank project and add a random music file in the step sequencer. Put the note C6 in the piano roll, add the pattern to the playlist, and export your song. If the exported song sounds sped up, the problem is with your sample or project, not the sample rate.

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-27 22:31:55


At 10/27/10 07:03 PM, asddaw wrote: Hello there!

For those who just want to answere my question;
So, whats the big difference between 44100Hz to 48000Hz?

For those who want to know why I would like to change the sample rate;
I've had this problem with FL Studio and exporting tracks, it came up like 2 weeks ago.
I'll try to explain even tough im sick and has a fever.
When I listen to the track in FL Studio the track sounds, hm, like its speeded up, like when you have a sample that is supposed to be on C5 and you press the C6 key in the piano roll, when I later export it as an mp3, wave, ogg whatever, it goes back to its normal state (It's just frustrating when it sounds like this in Fl and like that when you export it). So I've been trying to solve the problem, and I succeded!

When I change the sample rate from 44100Hz to 48000Hz or higher it sounds like it should in FL Studio.
Or when I change to ASIO4ALL v2, but I prefer to use Creative Asio.

So, whats the big difference between 44100Hz to 48000Hz?

I believe your problem has to do with using sounds or samples which are 48khz (or higher) but fl studio is trying to play them back at 44.1 khz resulting in them being sped up (compressing, and likely discarding some samples, in order to fit into the 44.1 sample rate?). I would think that FL Studio would have real time sample conversion though so i'm not too sure about this.. Maybe it relies on samplers to do this instead? Been a long time since I used FL..

There is no big difference between 44.1 and 48 khz, not perceptibly anyways to most people. 44.1 is the CD redbook standard (all CD's are rendered at 44.1 khz) 48 khz is used, I think, as digital video standard more than anything else. Generally speaking it's always best to work at the highest sample and bit rate your hardware will allow as it gives you more headroom and clarity while mixing, even if you'll end up downsampling later to CD or lossy mp3 format.
The difference between 44.1 and 48 khz is extremely subtle, however, the difference between 44.1 and 96 khz is much more pronounced. The higher the sample and bitrate you run at, however, the more strain it puts on your computer, especially if you're using a sampler which uses a 44.1 library (many if not most do) which will mean the sampler will upsample to your projects sample rate in real time eating up processor cycles).

Basically, if whatever samples you're using play back correctly when your project is set to a 48 khz rate, then it's likely they're 48 khz samples. You will get the best audio quality with them if you just work at 48 khz and simply downsample at the end when you're ready to export your song. Either that or downsample the waves you want to use to 44.1 with an external program, or use a sampler which does this for you (pretty sure most do, such as kotakt or sampletank), which will, technically, anyways, reduce their quality though it may not be noticeable and then you can work at 44.1 khz


Rottenbread.net

For your daily dose of rotting yeast..

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-27 23:04:56


At 10/27/10 10:00 PM, defegistor wrote: Upping the rate to 48 khz will not add any audible information to the song, and thus should not make any audible difference.

Have to disagree with this!
You should always work at the highest sample rate that is possible for your system. It is true that the human ear can only hear up to 20 khz (actually it's not even this high for most, with 18 khz probably being more accurate). However, there is still a good reason to work at a higher resolution. Many plugins (that are capable) produce audibly superior results when operating at a higher sample rate. Reason being is that nearly any plugin process will create artifacts, whether it be in the form of aliasing or distortion or what have you. When you work at a smaller sample rate, these artifacts are often 'folded' back down into the file, resulting in audible quality loss. By using a higher sample rate many of these artifacts will occur well above the range of hearing due to the added headroom, at which point they can essentially be cut off at the knees and won't be folded back down into the audible range. It's for this reason many plugins are starting to offer oversampling options, and for this reason nearly all studios will operate at 96 khz (or higher). Audio which is processed at higher sample rates will usually result in clearer, more open and more airy results due to less processing error making it into the audible spectrum. And of course, the more plugins you use in any given track the more reason you have to be working at 96 khz, as you'll have more and more artifacts to deal with, which add up, audibly.

That's my understanding of it all, anyways!


Rottenbread.net

For your daily dose of rotting yeast..

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-27 23:27:00


I should also probably mention that WORKING at 48 khz is not ideal if your target sample rate in the end is going to be 44.1 khz (cd or mp3), simply due to conversion error in re sampling algorithms that will most likely occur due to values being non-multiple, so in this regard, you're better off working at 44.1 (or) 88.2khz and just down sampling the offending wave files.


Rottenbread.net

For your daily dose of rotting yeast..

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-27 23:31:34


I understand about the artifacts, but this would apply more to 44.1 to 96 khz rather than 44.1 to 48 khz. Also, FL Studio 9.6 gives this message when you try to change the sample rate from 44.1 :

Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-27 23:38:18


Oh, and I have a question for the OP. What's Creative Asio? Can you use it and, say, listen to a Youtube video at the same time? ASIO4All's hogging of the soundcard kinda pisses me off.

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-28 01:54:59


At 10/27/10 11:04 PM, Rottenbeard wrote:
At 10/27/10 10:00 PM, defegistor wrote: Upping the rate to 48 khz will not add any audible information to the song, and thus should not make any audible difference.
Have to disagree with this!
You should always work at the highest sample rate that is possible for your system. It is true that the human ear can only hear up to 20 khz (actually it's not even this high for most, with 18 khz probably being more accurate). However, there is still a good reason to work at a higher resolution. Many plugins (that are capable) produce audibly superior results when operating at a higher sample rate.

What you're describing is oversampling and it occurs automatically in most plugins that have high-quality, oversampling or antialiasing settings. It's really easiest just to work at 44.1khz in general as there are plenty of plug-ins that don't support higher native processing than that. Whether or not it's actually "superior" is really up to the type of sound the person is looking for. Sometimes aliasing artifacts are desirable.

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-28 08:25:26


Yeah, I actually read about the sampling rate on wikipedia, but it didnt make too much sense what effect it will have in FL Studio.

I did as you said. And it sounds sped up when I export it, and in FL studio it sounds like the pitch is failing, sounds like a false tone, very wierd.
But when I change it up to 48000 it sounds perfect.
Even VSTs sounds like its timestretched/offpitched in 44100, but sounds good in 48000, not only samples.

And to answere your question, Creative asio is a driver that follows when you buy a creative soundcard, I dont know if it follows with all the models, but I'm using Creative X-Fi F4tality.
I think it makes your soundcard process the sounds instead of your cpu, wich what I've understood asio4all does.
And yes, you can go really low on the Buffer Length (I have it at 11ms), and you can watch youtube videos, play games or whatever at the same time as you play or mix a track in your studio!

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-28 08:34:13


At 10/27/10 11:27 PM, Rottenbeard wrote: I should also probably mention that WORKING at 48 khz is not ideal if your target sample rate in the end is going to be 44.1 khz (cd or mp3), simply due to conversion error in re sampling algorithms that will most likely occur due to values being non-multiple, so in this regard, you're better off working at 44.1 (or) 88.2khz and just down sampling the offending wave files.

I've tried a couple of conversions to Mp3 with a couple of old tracks in 48000, it didnt seem to have any effect to the sound itself, it sounden like it did in FL Studio, wich it doesnt when I use 44100, then it sounds timestretched/pitched up in FL Studio and normal when I later export it.
When I use 88.2KHz everything sounds very slow, and its still pitched wrong/timestretched (xD)

It's allmost like my system decided "Nah, 44100 is boring, I want to use 48000".

and it's not just samples its affecting, VST's and everything, wich worked perfect at 44100 3 weeks ago, but now only works perfect in 48000, and I have no clue what may have caused it.
Maybe my soundcard is failing!

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-28 13:13:09


At 10/28/10 08:25 AM, asddaw wrote: I did as you said. And it sounds sped up when I export it, and in FL studio it sounds like the pitch is failing, sounds like a false tone, very wierd.
But when I change it up to 48000 it sounds perfect.
Even VSTs sounds like its timestretched/offpitched in 44100, but sounds good in 48000, not only samples.

If you start a project in 48000 mode, it will cause all of the internal file settings for how plugins are handled to reflect that. You'll have to change the sample rate - then open a new project if you want it to work correctly.

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-28 13:46:25


At 10/28/10 01:13 PM, joshhunsaker wrote:
At 10/28/10 08:25 AM, asddaw wrote: I did as you said. And it sounds sped up when I export it, and in FL studio it sounds like the pitch is failing, sounds like a false tone, very wierd.
But when I change it up to 48000 it sounds perfect.
Even VSTs sounds like its timestretched/offpitched in 44100, but sounds good in 48000, not only samples.
If you start a project in 48000 mode, it will cause all of the internal file settings for how plugins are handled to reflect that. You'll have to change the sample rate - then open a new project if you want it to work correctly.

Yeah, but you cant change the sample rate without reloading the project, it reloads it automatic when you change it.
And if I start a new project in 44100 VSTs and Samples still sounds wierd, doesnt matter if I start it in 48000, save it, change the sample rate to 44100, reload it, or if I start a project in 44100 from the beginning and save it, reload it, and change the sample rate to 48000, it still only sounds good in 48000 and sounds wierd in 44100.

I dont have a problem creating projects in 48000, im just wondering why everything suddenly sounds bad in 44100 and good in 48000. And if there's gonna be a problem if I start working with my projects in 48000 instead of 44100.

Thanks for all the good replies btw! Been really helpfull. =)

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-28 17:33:08


At 10/28/10 01:46 PM, asddaw wrote:
At 10/28/10 01:13 PM, joshhunsaker wrote:
At 10/28/10 08:25 AM, asddaw wrote: I did as you said. And it sounds sped up when I export it, and in FL studio it sounds like the pitch is failing, sounds like a false tone, very wierd.
But when I change it up to 48000 it sounds perfect.
Even VSTs sounds like its timestretched/offpitched in 44100, but sounds good in 48000, not only samples.
If you start a project in 48000 mode, it will cause all of the internal file settings for how plugins are handled to reflect that. You'll have to change the sample rate - then open a new project if you want it to work correctly.
Yeah, but you cant change the sample rate without reloading the project, it reloads it automatic when you change it.
And if I start a new project in 44100 VSTs and Samples still sounds wierd, doesnt matter if I start it in 48000, save it, change the sample rate to 44100, reload it, or if I start a project in 44100 from the beginning and save it, reload it, and change the sample rate to 48000, it still only sounds good in 48000 and sounds wierd in 44100.

I dont have a problem creating projects in 48000, im just wondering why everything suddenly sounds bad in 44100 and good in 48000. And if there's gonna be a problem if I start working with my projects in 48000 instead of 44100.

Thanks for all the good replies btw! Been really helpfull. =)

What plugins are you running? Are you using a virtual instrument as a sampler, or are you just dragging waves into the project?

What Creative card are you using? I recall issues with some of the older cards with locked sample rates at 48 khz. Check your hardware sample rate and make sure it matches your software one.


Rottenbread.net

For your daily dose of rotting yeast..

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-28 18:37:11


Just thought I'd post to say Rottenbeard is right.

The increased Nyquist frequency isn't really enough to consider it worthwhile, and because of the weird ratio between 41 and 48 they don't mix very well.

88.2 I think is HD audio standard (Or is that 192 K?) and asuch you'd be using it for mixing for fancy, expensive production that will be listened to on high end system. The reason we sample so high is to minimize aliasing but also to improve transients and (oddly, mostly noticably) bass. Bass tones have long wave lengths and we perceive them in the real world to change over time - the higher sample frequency means we hear the natural modulation of the tone.

Higher tones aren't really perceived standalone, but we enjoy the fullness of these high frequencies when mixed with others - we can "feel" when they're not there anymore.

And then there's 1 bit systems where the sampling rate is a few Mhz!

Response to Fl Studio, Sample Rate, Problems 2010-10-28 21:34:06


At 10/28/10 05:33 PM, Rottenbeard wrote:
At 10/28/10 01:46 PM, asddaw wrote:
At 10/28/10 01:13 PM, joshhunsaker wrote:
At 10/28/10 08:25 AM, asddaw wrote: I did as you said. And it sounds sped up when I export it, and in FL studio it sounds like the pitch is failing, sounds like a false tone, very wierd.
But when I change it up to 48000 it sounds perfect.
Even VSTs sounds like its timestretched/offpitched in 44100, but sounds good in 48000, not only samples.
If you start a project in 48000 mode, it will cause all of the internal file settings for how plugins are handled to reflect that. You'll have to change the sample rate - then open a new project if you want it to work correctly.
Yeah, but you cant change the sample rate without reloading the project, it reloads it automatic when you change it.
And if I start a new project in 44100 VSTs and Samples still sounds wierd, doesnt matter if I start it in 48000, save it, change the sample rate to 44100, reload it, or if I start a project in 44100 from the beginning and save it, reload it, and change the sample rate to 48000, it still only sounds good in 48000 and sounds wierd in 44100.

I dont have a problem creating projects in 48000, im just wondering why everything suddenly sounds bad in 44100 and good in 48000. And if there's gonna be a problem if I start working with my projects in 48000 instead of 44100.

Thanks for all the good replies btw! Been really helpfull. =)
What plugins are you running? Are you using a virtual instrument as a sampler, or are you just dragging waves into the project?

What Creative card are you using? I recall issues with some of the older cards with locked sample rates at 48 khz. Check your hardware sample rate and make sure it matches your software one.

I'm using Sylenth1 mostly, and a Pianoplugin called 4Front Piano and another synth module called atmosphere from spectrasonic.
I almost never drag waves into the project, except when I use reversed hats and swisch & swosch sounds.

Im using a Creative X-Fi F4tality Champion Series or something like that, But i've allways used that card, and I've used sylenth1 for like 4 months, its just 2 weeks ago this mysterious problem showd up. :(