Poland vs. Russia?

[Warforger]

This isn't a current events thing, but more of a history thing. I read the wikipedia article on it, and aside from the differences in church, there's nothing I can see that would say that the Polish would have bad relations with the Russians, ESPECIALLY since they're one of the most Slavic ethnic groups in Europe next to the Ukraine, another nation Russia has had fueds with.

This doesn't make much sense because Russia's justification for protecting the Serbs was because they're a distant Slavic ancestor in WWI, but when it came to the Poles they're "anarchists who need to be controlled by the Enlightened Russian Monarchy" I understand that they really wanted to annex Serbia into the Russian Empire after conquering Austria, but that doesn't explain why they where so cruel to the Poles, especially since even during WWII all they did was support the Soviet Union, and the Union did was make sure as many poles died as possible.

[Ranger2]

Poles today HATE Russia.
They hate Russia because it tried to annex Poland in WWII, then oppressed them and murdered them for 50 years as the USSR. The Russians did genocide to the Poles to try to, "Russianize" the land.

Remember how back in April Lech Kaczynski died on his way to Russia? I know plenty of Poles who believe that the plane crash was orchestrated by Russia, and that the now-President of Poland collaborated with the Russians to get power.

Russia is still trying to exert its authority in the region. Poles today still hate Russia.

[Warforger]

At 10/17/10 07:39 PM, Ranger2 wrote: Poles today HATE Russia.

This is more of a historical hatred, much like how British and Canadian people brag about the War of 1812 or bitch about the American Revolution.

At 10/17/10 07:39 PM, Ranger2 wrote: They hate Russia because it tried to annex Poland in WWII, then oppressed them and murdered them for 50 years as the USSR. The Russians did genocide to the Poles to try to, "Russianize" the land.

It goes much BEYOND that during the time where there was a confederation with Poland and Lithuania, Poland wasn't much of an enemy for Russia before that but now they were, and so eventually Russia took over Lithuania and Poland, only for it to regain independence. Then Napoleon happened and the Congress Of Vienna instead just split the territories with Russia, Prussia and Austria, Poland was viewed as anarchist and was Russified, it wouldn't be until 1918 when they could gain independence again.

At 10/17/10 07:39 PM, Ranger2 wrote: Remember how back in April Lech Kaczynski died on his way to Russia? I know plenty of Poles who believe that the plane crash was orchestrated by Russia, and that the now-President of Poland collaborated with the Russians to get power.

And I know plenty of liberals who blame 9/11 on Bush.

At 10/17/10 07:39 PM, Ranger2 wrote: Russia is still trying to exert its authority in the region. Poles today still hate Russia.

Why would it do that? It already has enough problems elsewhere already.

[Tancrisism]

At 10/18/10 12:49 AM, Warforger wrote: This is more of a historical hatred, much like how British and Canadian people brag about the War of 1812 or bitch about the American Revolution.

No, it's a much more recent hatred. The Poles only finally were freed from a Russian-influenced totalitarian government 20 years ago. The wounds are still fresh.

At 10/17/10 07:39 PM, Ranger2 wrote:

It goes much BEYOND that during the time where there was a confederation with Poland and Lithuania, Poland wasn't much of an enemy for Russia before that but now they were, and so eventually Russia took over Lithuania and Poland, only for it to regain independence. Then Napoleon happened and the Congress Of Vienna instead just split the territories with Russia, Prussia and Austria, Poland was viewed as anarchist and was Russified, it wouldn't be until 1918 when they could gain independence again.

Poland wasn't viewed as Anarchist, it was viewed as weak and unnecessary and tasty to larger powers. But yeah, the partitions themselves are another reason that the Polish resent the Russians.

Why would it do that? It already has enough problems elsewhere already.

I was in Poland not long ago (Warsaw, to be exact), and there is a statue there of 4 Russian soldiers who are representative of the unit that the Soviets sent to aid the Poles in the Warsaw Uprising.

Now, I'm not sure how much you know about the Uprising, but it was the largest-scale uprising by a civilian population against the Nazis to occur during the entire war. The Russians, however, did not want the Poles to become independent (see exhibit A ), but realized that the Uprising would be a powerful propaganda tool, and so they sent a very small unit and a tiny amount of supplies to aid them. This way, they would be able to say they helped if they won the war, and if they didn't, they only would have lost a tiny bit of manpower.

Then the Uprising occurred, and it resulted in the utter destruction of Warsaw as the Nazis systematically burned the city to the ground, weakening the Polish morale and overall infrastructure, and leaving them ripe for communist takeover.

Now, back to the Russian statue that still stands commemorating these "heroes". Many Poles have considered tearing it down, but if they should do that it would severely injure their relations with the Russians (See Exhibit B - Estonians tearing down their Soviet statue), and the Poles are still afraid of Russia, especially considering they control much of their natural gas now.

So yeah.

[ANISOCIAL]

Russia.

[leanlifter1]

Sounds like another stupid ego based thread Red vs Blue my team is better than your team bull shit.

[naronic]

Russians:
Bad ass, vodka drinking, makers of the AK47

Poland:
Whiny people

Russians rush to the finishline!!

[CzarNicholasIII]

At 11/14/12 01:35 PM, naronic wrote: Russians:
Bad ass, vodka drinking, makers of the AK47

Poland:
Whiny people

Russians rush to the finishline!!

Let's ignore the fact that vodka was originally created in Poland.
Let's ignore the fact the Russia got their asses kicked in the Soviet-Polish War.
Let's ignore the fact that Russia got not one but two fleets sunk by a small upstart nation, and got their asses kicked on land. (Russo-Japan War)
Let's ignore the fact that Russians love killing Russians. (Stalin)
Let's ignore the fact Russia today is a corrupt cesspit that makes Poland look like Utopia.
Let's ignore the fact that 50 years of "Russianization" failed to destroy nationalist feelings in the country, never mind the partitioning.
Let's ignore the fact that Russian population has dropped dramatically over the past 60 years.
Let's also ignore the Crimean War, World War I, a history of genocide, pogroms, and a lurching economy that never really existed beyond the minds of starry eyed government officials.
I'm going to bet on Poland... if only for the fact it is part of NATO.
Also Russia lacks our awesome light bulb changing skills.

[Warforger]

At 11/14/12 06:10 PM, CzarNicholasIII wrote: Let's ignore the fact that Russians love killing Russians. (Stalin)

Stalin was Georgian, not Russian. Although he was really a big Russian nationalist to the point of making the actual Russian Bolsheviks look unpatriotic.

[thegarbear14]

Don't say "the ukraine"

and poland, nato, better economically.

Btw a russian man invented the ak but he learned engineering in kiev ukraine, poland currently uses ak platform rifles and even had a few innovations for theirs such as 3round burst.

Poland makes it's own aks.

How are poles more slavic than other slavs?

[CzarNicholasIII]

At 11/14/12 06:32 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 11/14/12 06:10 PM, CzarNicholasIII wrote: Let's ignore the fact that Russians love killing Russians. (Stalin)

Stalin was Georgian, not Russian. Although he was really a big Russian nationalist to the point of making the actual Russian Bolsheviks look unpatriotic.

You get a cookie for that. It is true. I was hoping someone would catch that. The nationalist bit is a bit debatable since a good amount of his later actions are mainly centered on his own power base preservation. Although whatever nationalism he did have served him well in his fight against other members of the politburo. Fun to see that some of the most idealistic leaders in history weren't actually from their countries. Catherine the Great, Napoleon, Stalin, Obama. (j/k on the last.) I'm prolly missing a few names.

As for the vs.? Can't forget Russia is still a very diverse country ethnically. Poland is certainly more unified both religiously and ethnically.

[naronic]

At 11/14/12 06:10 PM, CzarNicholasIII wrote:

At 11/14/12 01:35 PM, naronic wrote:

Lotzashit

Buh buh buh, cawa dootie, soviet bad azz FPS Russia...

[LordJaric]

At 11/14/12 10:52 PM, naronic wrote:

At 11/14/12 06:10 PM, CzarNicholasIII wrote:

At 11/14/12 01:35 PM, naronic wrote:

Lotzashit

Buh buh buh, cawa dootie, soviet bad azz FPS Russia...

Yeah. That's going to give you so much credibility. (sarcasm)

[naronic]

At 11/14/12 10:56 PM, LordJaric wrote:

At 11/14/12 10:52 PM, naronic wrote:

At 11/14/12 06:10 PM, CzarNicholasIII wrote:

At 11/14/12 01:35 PM, naronic wrote:

Lotzashit

Buh buh buh, cawa dootie, soviet bad azz FPS Russia...

Yeah. That's going to give you so much credibility. (sarcasm)

UH, yez it dohz u moron FPS russia proves that all russians are bad azzez, go up to him and tell him hez not lawl

[LordJaric]

At 11/14/12 11:00 PM, naronic wrote: UH, yez it dohz u moron FPS russia proves that all russians are bad azzez, go up to him and tell him hez not lawl

Speak english, not gibberish. Then maybe I will start taking you seriously.

[naronic]

At 11/14/12 11:22 PM, LordJaric wrote:

At 11/14/12 11:00 PM, naronic wrote: UH, yez it dohz u moron FPS russia proves that all russians are bad azzez, go up to him and tell him hez not lawl

Speak english, not gibberish. Then maybe I will start taking you seriously.

It iz engwish u moron, and the entire world knows russia kicks ass look on utube for once loser lol.

[LordJaric]

At 11/14/12 11:46 PM, naronic wrote: It iz engwish u moron,

I'm just going to assume that you're a troll.

[Warforger]

At 11/14/12 06:10 PM, CzarNicholasIII wrote: Let's ignore the fact the Russia got their asses kicked in the Soviet-Polish War.

Not exactly, the Poles entered the war with the hope of extending a buffer state of Ukraine between them and Russia, by the end of the war Western Ukraine had fallen and they were forced to share a border. But this was all going on when both countries were embroiled in massive conflict all over their borders.