Homosexuality is unnatural?

[SicklySalamander]

Male bats have the highest rate of homosexuality of any mammal, including humans. Discuss, argue, spam, and think. The usual internet thing.

[WiiFittoToreinaa]

gotta love girl on girl action

[misterwondafull]

I smell a new type of porn becoming popular in the near future.

[headphenomenon]

By saying spam, you have prolonged the inevitable. Prepare for impact.

Also, no one cares. Bats have homosexuality, so what? When I come and knock down your front door with my balls, you'll go homo.

[6r0undZ3r0]

It's natural. End of argument?

[TheLameSauce]

radar/gaydar joke. GO

[SicklySalamander]

I just find it funny how so many people are hatin' on the gays for a sexual preference.
It's pretty stupid.

[sixflab]

Bat's are pretty sexy.

[The-universe]

Whenever someone makes a claim to homosexuality being unnatural they may be using the term in a different context.

They may not be referring to "natural" or "unnatural" as the context of seeing homosexual behaviour in wildlife. They could be referring to biological inconsistencies with sexual acts for the intention of reproduction. Or perhaps they could have a morality objection due to (whatever) belief or opinion they have.

But nonetheless, no matter what context they use, they're still wrong.

[yurgenburgen]

Well, homosexuality isn't "unnatural" because nothing is outside of nature.

[EverReady2Kill]

Well it is not synthetic, is it?

[walterwagner]

yeah i heard that lions have intercourse with other lions and thats awesome

[Raab]

I honestly believe homosexuality is based on sexual experience.

There is no reason in my mind as to why, in a completely natural environment, a male of any species would attempt to mate with another male of the same species, other than the fact that he gains some gratification from the practice of homosexuality.

If an animal gains gratification from practicing homosexuality, I believe it will continue doing such to achieve more such gratification.

In humans, I believe that your first sexual experience weighs largely on your sexual preferences.

This holds true not only for homosexuals, but also rape/molestation victims.

Before your development of sexual preference is complete, if you are influenced by something, your sexual preference will be different than it would be without influence.

Of course I could be wrong, but this is the way I perceive the whole homosexual preference, and it is my opinion.

Nothing against homos here, either.

[BigLundi]

At 10/10/10 03:37 AM, XxRobJohnsonxX wrote:

Nothing against homos here, either.

Honestly not 100% sure if this is a troll or not. So here goes.

If this were true, how do you account for the many supposdly 'straight' people who have sex with women for the longest time, then come out and admit that they're gay? What about when virgins find one sex more attractive than another sex? There's a perfectly good reason why in a natural enviornment, a male would have sex with another male. That reason is that they're gay. Naturally gay.

[Raab]

At 10/10/10 03:41 AM, BigLundi wrote:

At 10/10/10 03:37 AM, XxRobJohnsonxX wrote:

Nothing against homos here, either.

Honestly not 100% sure if this is a troll or not. So here goes.

If this were true, how do you account for the many supposdly 'straight' people who have sex with women for the longest time, then come out and admit that they're gay?

Some are ashamed of being shunned by society. Some develop homosexual tendencies over time.

What about when virgins find one sex more attractive than another sex?

Intercourse is almost NEVER the first sexual experience.

There's a perfectly good reason why in a natural enviornment, a male would have sex with another male. That reason is that they're gay. Naturally gay.

As I said before, homosexuality is derived from sexual experience.
If you were in an environment where it was you and another male, you would know nothing but homosexuality.
If you were in an environment where it was you and a female, you would know nothing but heterosexuality.

When you are in an environment with both, you find one or the other that you find to be suitable for your mate. This is influenced by your interaction with the choices, not innate.

[Hiphopopotamus]

That explains Twilight.

[BigLundi]

At 10/10/10 03:46 AM, XxRobJohnsonxX wrote:

At 10/10/10 03:41 AM, BigLundi wrote:

At 10/10/10 03:37 AM, XxRobJohnsonxX wrote:

Nothing against homos here, either.

Honestly not 100% sure if this is a troll or not. So here goes.

If this were true, how do you account for the many supposdly 'straight' people who have sex with women for the longest time, then come out and admit that they're gay?

Some are ashamed of being shunned by society. Some develop homosexual tendencies over time.

After being straight their whole life FIRST?

What about when virgins find one sex more attractive than another sex?

Intercourse is almost NEVER the first sexual experience.

K, so what's the first? Masturbation? What are they masturbating to? If it's girls I'm gonna go ahead and say they're gonna turn out straight. And if it's guys they obviously find that stuff attractive anyhow, so again, seems more natural to me.

There's a perfectly good reason why in a natural enviornment, a male would have sex with another male. That reason is that they're gay. Naturally gay.

As I said before, homosexuality is derived from sexual experience.
If you were in an environment where it was you and another male, you would know nothing but homosexuality.
If you were in an environment where it was you and a female, you would know nothing but heterosexuality.

Yeah, but if I were gay I'd really not enjoy heterosexual sex. And if I were straight I really wouldn't enjoy my homosexual experience.

When you are in an environment with both, you find one or the other that you find to be suitable for your mate. This is influenced by your interaction with the choices, not innate.

Or that your brain tells you is attractive, which can be either sex.

My 6 year old step sister has a crush on my best friend. She knows nothing about sex, whatsoever. All she knows is she's attracted to him. My 8 year old step brother on the other hand, is WAY too into Lady Gaga, and prefers to spend long hours having...me...tutor him, than my mother. It's not a family thing, and I hardly know the kid, so it's not a friendship thing. Before you ask my mom has known this kid for several more YEARS than I have, and he still prefers to be around me.

Again, neither kid knows jack shit about sex, but they DO know what they're attracted to, which can be either gay or straight.

[Raab]

At 10/10/10 03:54 AM, BigLundi wrote: After being straight their whole life FIRST?

Does this not prove to you that your sexual preference is exactly that.... a preference?

K, so what's the first? Masturbation? What are they masturbating to? If it's girls I'm gonna go ahead and say they're gonna turn out straight. And if it's guys they obviously find that stuff attractive anyhow, so again, seems more natural to me.

Are you that ignorant? If so, I'm not going to continue this conversation with you.
A sexual experience can be defined as anything that attracts you to the opposite sex in a sexual manner. This occurs long before masturbation, and often conscious thought as well. Most of it is interaction with sub-conscious feelings.

Yeah, but if I were gay I'd really not enjoy heterosexual sex. And if I were straight I really wouldn't enjoy my homosexual experience.

You wouldn't know the difference.
You are telling me right now, that you breathe air, because you were made to breathe oxygen.
But you wouldn't enjoy breathing carbon-dioxide if we were made to breathe carbon dioxide.
I'm sorry, but your level of intelligence is severely lacking. I have no problems answering questions you may have about my opinions on homosexuality, but honestly.... If you are unable to grap simple concepts, whether you agree with them or not... this conversation is pointless.

Or that your brain tells you is attractive, which can be either sex.

And most of the thoughts in our brain come from external stimuli.

My 6 year old step sister has a crush on my best friend. She knows nothing about sex, whatsoever. All she knows is she's attracted to him. My 8 year old step brother on the other hand, is WAY too into Lady Gaga, and prefers to spend long hours having...me...tutor him, than my mother. It's not a family thing, and I hardly know the kid, so it's not a friendship thing. Before you ask my mom has known this kid for several more YEARS than I have, and he still prefers to be around me.

Again, neither kid knows jack shit about sex, but they DO know what they're attracted to, which can be either gay or straight.

...and imo, it is based on their upbringing/experiences. Is it that hard to grasp?

If you are unable to see the point/validity in the opposing party's argument, regardless of your beliefs, you honestly bring nothing to the discussion table except what you perceive in your mind to be correct.

I am a very open-minded individual, and I am trying to see things your way, however you are taking things I have stated and very poorly are trying to debunk them.

[Mechabloby]

The people that claim homosexuality is unnatural are imbeciles: homosexuality is a natural orientation that people belong to - it's not a choice whatsoever.

[Raab]

At 10/10/10 04:16 AM, Mechabloby wrote: The people that claim homosexuality is unnatural are imbeciles: homosexuality is a natural orientation that people belong to - it's not a choice whatsoever.

to refer to people with differing beliefs from your own as imbeciles is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.

This argument goes hand in hand with

Predetermination
(claiming you have no choice)
and
Free will
(claiming you have a choice)

They are both differing beliefs, and both hold valid in certain areas.
Neither of the two are correct or incorrect, and it is a matter of OPINION which you believe.

[Senmetsu]

Gay people are cool, yo. Noxxxy <3333

[BigLundi]

At 10/10/10 04:11 AM, XxRobJohnsonxX wrote:

At 10/10/10 03:54 AM, BigLundi wrote: After being straight their whole life FIRST?

Does this not prove to you that your sexual preference is exactly that.... a preference?

No, because why else would they 'become' gay? If they started with ,and were doing heterosexual things their whole life, why else, other than they must be naturally homosexual, would the start to deviate and do homosexual behavior?

Are you that ignorant? If so, I'm not going to continue this conversation with you.
A sexual experience can be defined as anything that attracts you to the opposite sex in a sexual manner. This occurs long before masturbation, and often conscious thought as well. Most of it is interaction with sub-conscious feelings.

So like how I referred to my pre-sexual knowledge step brother and sister.

Yeah, but if I were gay I'd really not enjoy heterosexual sex. And if I were straight I really wouldn't enjoy my homosexual experience.

You wouldn't know the difference.

No, but I'd know I'm not enjoying myself.

You are telling me right now, that you breathe air, because you were made to breathe oxygen.
But you wouldn't enjoy breathing carbon-dioxide if we were made to breathe carbon dioxide.

Yes I would, because if I didn't, I'd die. I'd snort carbon dioxide all day long, because that's how I was made.

I'm sorry, but your level of intelligence is severely lacking. I have no problems answering questions you may have about my opinions on homosexuality, but honestly.... If you are unable to grap simple concepts, whether you agree with them or not... this conversation is pointless.

Please don't revert to accusations of mental degredation, it only invalidates your argument's character.

Or that your brain tells you is attractive, which can be either sex.

And most of the thoughts in our brain come from external stimuli.

Most, not all. If someone sees a man and woman together, who both look decent for their respective sex, and they seem to enjoy the look of the same sex more, what would you call that?

My 6 year old step sister has a crush on my best friend. She knows nothing about sex, whatsoever. All she knows is she's attracted to him. My 8 year old step brother on the other hand, is WAY too into Lady Gaga, and prefers to spend long hours having...me...tutor him, than my mother. It's not a family thing, and I hardly know the kid, so it's not a friendship thing. Before you ask my mom has known this kid for several more YEARS than I have, and he still prefers to be around me.

Again, neither kid knows jack shit about sex, but they DO know what they're attracted to, which can be either gay or straight.

...and imo, it is based on their upbringing/experiences. Is it that hard to grasp?

They had no sexual upbringing, and no sexual experiences. Didn't you get that from my "They know nothing at all about sex" comment? In fact, my step brother SHOULD prefer females, as his mother states how horrible men are regularly to him, by your definition. IF he's been brought up sexually at all, it's that men are bad. Why then, before his natural rebellious age, does he still prefer the company of men?

If you are unable to see the point/validity in the opposing party's argument, regardless of your beliefs, you honestly bring nothing to the discussion table except what you perceive in your mind to be correct.

If you are unable to accurately depict what I'm saying, then you have no right to claim I have no ability to see what YOU are saying.

I am a very open-minded individual, and I am trying to see things your way, however you are taking things I have stated and very poorly are trying to debunk them.

I'm asking questions that you can't seem to answer, if you believe I'm debunking you, even poorly, that's on you. I'm making no such attempts.

[Mechabloby]

At 10/10/10 04:20 AM, XxRobJohnsonxX wrote: to refer to people with differing beliefs from your own as imbeciles is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.

This argument goes hand in hand with

Predetermination
(claiming you have no choice)
and
Free will
(claiming you have a choice)

They are both differing beliefs, and both hold valid in certain areas.
Neither of the two are correct or incorrect, and it is a matter of OPINION which you believe.

Okay, I shall rephrase what I said into something that's not as ignorant: I don't understand why people consider homosexuality a "choice" as it isn't. It's more natural than a choice as you will, some time in your life, come to an epiphany that will reinstate your sexuality - you'll realise that you are either heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual (maybe even asexual or pansexual). Sexuality is one of the most natural things on this planet.

I apologise for my earlier post for making it sound ignorant. I hope this one is an improvement.

[Painbringer]

"The only unnatural sex act is one that cannot be performed"

-Kinsey

So basically you cannot fuck anything that will either kill you, or destroy your penis - Or the supernatural (ghosts).

That means everything else is natural.

[Raab]

At 10/10/10 04:33 AM, BigLundi wrote: I don't understand anything that you are talking about.

I have done nothing BUT answer your questions about my beliefs.
If you cannot grasp the merit behind my explanations, I may just as well be discussing it with a rock.

I'm sorry, but I have given you numerous responses to the same questions you originally posed, and you just do not seem to understand.

Reiteration will get me nowhere, and I strongly urge that you work on your debating/comprehension skills prior to engaging in an argument.

The first thing you need to do in a dispute is see the other person's side of the story/their opinion.
You are unable to do so.
After you see where the opposing argument has its roots, and understand why someone believes something over the way you believe it, will you be able to attempt to reach common ground and have a discussion.

I see the roots of your argument, and when I present you with things that should be within your grasp of understanding, you ignore them. This conversation is over.

[Raab]

At 10/10/10 04:38 AM, Mechabloby wrote: A polite clarification

Although I disagree with your thoughts about homosexuality as an epiphany, I will briefly explain why.

Largely due to the ideals expressed with determinism/free will...

Determinism is roughly defined as the view that all current and future events are causally necessitated by past events combined with the laws of nature. Neither determinism nor its opposite, indeterminism, are positions in the debate about free will.

I believe, that the choice is there, but you do not actually make it, and every event before (leading up to the choice) completely influences it.

Now, you can say,
You are still claiming it's a choice.

But its not as simple as that....
Your answer is almost predetermined before you are even posed with the choice.
This is due to your genetics, your history, your experiences, the contents of your mind, all the way down to the chemicals (and their location) located in your brain.

True, it may seem like it is not a choice, but in all reality the choice is indeed there. Your actions, however are largely governed by stimuli, whether it be measurable or non.

I hope you can see where I'm coming from with this.

[BigLundi]

At 10/10/10 04:44 AM, XxRobJohnsonxX wrote: I'm sorry, but I have given you numerous responses to the same questions you originally posed, and you just do not seem to understand.

Maybe you just suck at giving a clear opinion.

Reiteration will get me nowhere, and I strongly urge that you work on your debating/comprehension skills prior to engaging in an argument.

Debate team captain. We won lots. :D

The first thing you need to do in a dispute is see the other person's side of the story/their opinion.
You are unable to do so.

Because you failed to accurately explain your opinion. Instead, you presume everyone to simply understand everything you say. Perhaps you should explain what one's 'first sexual experience' is instead of thinking it should be common knowledge. Common knowledge would dictate this to be a masturbationary subject, or at the very least a conscious thought of attraction.

After you see where the opposing argument has its roots, and understand why someone believes something over the way you believe it, will you be able to attempt to reach common ground and have a discussion.

I see the roots of your argument, and when I present you with things that should be within your grasp of understanding, you ignore them. This conversation is over.

The conversation is over because you have given incorrect answers to my right and wrong questions. The frustration you're feeling at my 'lack of understanding' is in fact the frustration you feel about not being considered right to what you personally feel is exceedingly simple to comprehend. You stated before it was your opinion. I wasn't trying to debunk an opinion, I was discussing it. You took it to be a debate because I was not agreeing with you. Please learn to not be so defensive. Realize when someone questions your opinion, it doesn't necessitate debate/argument. I wonder, therefore, how you see roots in my argument when I'm not making one.

[Mariojinx]

At 10/10/10 01:47 AM, 6r0undZ3r0 wrote: It's natural. End of argument?

Yes.

There is no "Genetic engineering" involved.

[Raab]

At 10/10/10 04:56 AM, BigLundi wrote: more mindless nonsense

I find it hard to believe you would even be part of a debate team.
Do you succeed at a debate because the opposing party simply resigns after explaining simple concepts to you that you fail to grasp?

Not only do you fail at comprehending my argument, but you also fail at understanding the simplified explanations that I put into terms that are much-more easily understandable.

One cannot grasp the concepts described within Calculus prior to learning basic Algebra.
The same holds true with my argument about how an individual develops homosexuality.

If you cannot or do not grasp an explanation, even after attempting to bring its context to something you are able to relate to... rather than coming off as a fool, ask me to explain again in terms you can understand.

What really helps me decide on your level of intelligence is your inability to understand the choice scenario:

If you have option A,
...you have had option A your whole life.

you have option B,
...you know nothing about option B.

You are claiming that option A is better than option B, based on absolutely no influence/knowledge.

This is defined solely as ignorance.

You are ignorant. I'm sorry, but although it may hurt you to hear it, you don't know everything, and you cannot simply state opinions and claim them to be factual information.

[BigLundi]

At 10/10/10 05:12 AM, XxRobJohnsonxX wrote: I find it hard to believe you would even be part of a debate team.

I find it hard to believe you consider yourself intelligent.

Yeah...doesn't feel good does it?

Do you succeed at a debate because the opposing party simply resigns after explaining simple concepts to you that you fail to grasp?

No, I usually win because I reduce the opposing party to gibbering idiots that have nothing more to say than simple insults and curses. You're heading down that line yourself it seems.

Not only do you fail at comprehending my argument, but you also fail at understanding the simplified explanations that I put into terms that are much-more easily understandable.

Not only do you fail to understand MY questions, but you also fail to see that I'm not arguing with you. You're turning it into one. God knows why.

One cannot grasp the concepts described within Calculus prior to learning basic Algebra.
The same holds true with my argument about how an individual develops homosexuality.

Agreed.

If you cannot or do not grasp an explanation, even after attempting to bring its context to something you are able to relate to... rather than coming off as a fool, ask me to explain again in terms you can understand.

I did understand. I understood the understanding you didn't mean for me to understand. It's not my fault you're not clear enough at times.

What really helps me decide on your level of intelligence is your inability to understand the choice scenario:

If you have option A,
...you have had option A your whole life.

you have option B,
...you know nothing about option B.

You are claiming that option A is better than option B, based on absolutely no influence/knowledge.

Ah hah. You are referring to "If you only know women, you can't possibly love men." explanation, yes? Well, in the first place, to refer to homosexuality as an 'option' in itself is debateable, so you cannot simply state that options are there when they might possibly not be.

I can only know women, yet understand that I do not enjoy myself with a woman. That would make me homosexual. The same goes for if I were straight and only knew man.

I might not KNOW what the other 'choice' is, but I do understand what I feel, and what I'm feeling, isn't good. Now, as I don't know of the other 'choice' I WOULD likely simply assume that it is not MEANT to feel good, but now that isn't a natural enviornment is it? That's more like forced mating than anything.

This is defined solely as ignorance.

An ironic statement, concerning your own ignorance.

You are ignorant. I'm sorry, but although it may hurt you to hear it, you don't know everything, and you cannot simply state opinions and claim them to be factual information.

And you don't know everything either. Does that hurt? No? Didn't hurt me either. That's like telling me I'm not god. I'm so hurt by the mere notion that I'm not omnipotent :'( look at me cry.

Let's go back to what you said that sparked my interest in the first place.

"There is no reason why in a natural enviornment a male would mate with another male." this interested me because in plenty of natural enviornments, this very thing happens, which caused me to scrutinize your post, and ask more questions. These questions, in your view, meant debate.

The next time you quote my post as an insult towards my intelligence again, I shall do the same to yours. Fair is fair :D.