What defines people as musicians?

[GronmonSE]

Seemingly dumb question and tl;dr wall of text, but bear with me for a second here. Had to rephrase my question because "Do you consider yourselves musicians?" is too long apparently and NG limits the number of characters in the subject line.

I don't know how many of you do music as a hobby. Probably the majority here does and a tiny percentage actually works in the music industry, whether they're indie producers/composers or work for some label somewhere. I do music as a hobby myself.

But here's the thing: I don't think it'll be a hobby forever. I actually want to work in the music industry as a sound engineer, which is why I'm taking music courses in college. My declared major is now Audio Engineering. Most people think "oh, you're gonna be a musician then?" and I cringe everytime I hear that question. I cringe because they immediately assume I'll play guitar in an obscure band that'll never make it anywhere. "No, I'll be a sound engineer" is my usual answer. It's the same thing to them, there's no difference. Maybe it's just general ignorance, I don't know.

But you see, I -do- make music. I -do- know some theory. I -do- collaborate on projects. I'm like a closet musician. I don't like telling people this, because I feel like it carries a negative stereotype (call me crazy). And the second you mention you make music, they come up with this surreal standards of what you might/should be making. That's my experience though, it might be different for some of you guys, so I really don't know.

Do I consider myself a musician? I do on Newgrounds. I do at the band hall where I get taught theory and other things. I don't elsewhere. Is that me just being a hypocrite? Is it me not wanting to be associated with a bunch of highschool marching band kids or peace-loving, indie treehuggers? No offense to them of course, I do completely different things and I'm pretty sure a lot of people here have a highschool marching band background, which is cool I guess.

What exactly makes a person a musician though? Surely, music is subjective, but you can't call a guy who plays random crap on a piano a musician. Do you need to know theory? Obviously you don't. Do you need to make a living off it? Probably not. Is a musician simply a person who loves making music or is it a stereotype? I don't know, I'm bordering on a double life here myself. I dread my online artist name going out in public. Only time I give it to someone, it's either a really close friend or a music teacher. I don't really showcase my music outside of the Internet.

Any thoughts, NG? My views may be wrong, and it's fine if you disagree with me. By all means, tell me my thought process here is wrong.

[InvisibleObserver]

For me given what I do it can be tricky telling someone "I make music." because the line of things usually is "what instrument do you play?", which I do play some things, but my PC sequencing is by far my focus. So I tell them "I play the computer" and that I make electronic music. This then leads to "like techno music?" which then requires some clarification of genre to which I don't fall under one, so I just tell them "unique electronic music".

At this point their kind of confused about what I do, and telling them my poncy musician alias is the ku de gras of making me seem pretentious. :P

So I don't meet people and go "Hey, I'm a musician." If I do they don't get it off the bat, and I don't want to explain, and its all rather uncomfortable a thing to brand myself as.

I do think however that a musician can be an artist, but not all musicians are artists which adds some difficulty to defining myself in relation to other artists (this all adds more weight to pretentious appearances). As my own observation those who do run around telling everyone they are musicians tend to not be less of an artist (not including those who are making money off of music, they need to make people aware that music puts food on the table).

Modesty always is a good thing, but I share my music with people who are curious and let them hear for themselves what it is I do. Most of the time the people I don't want to bother with explaining things to get turned off of my music and head for the hills anyways, so it serves me well.

I am on a slow climb to considering myself regularily a 'musician', it is weird to think of myself that way though. I'm a lot of other things.

Like a friend.

String quartet warm melodic insert here.

[InvisibleObserver]

At 9/26/10 09:44 PM, InvisibleObserver wrote: As my own observation those who do run around telling everyone they are musicians tend to be less artistic and more concerned about appearances then the production and process of writing music. In my experiences anyways.

I sentence failed, so I fixed it.

[amaterasu]

To me a musician is somebody who is on a journey to explore the art of music. It's a journey that never ends. We're all musicians.

Now defining *music* on the other hand...

[Breed]

If you make a living with music, you are a musician....nuff said

[amaterasu]

At 9/26/10 10:34 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: If you make a living with music, you are a musician....nuff said

That would make you a professional* musician.

[Breed]

At 9/26/10 10:38 PM, amaterasu wrote:

At 9/26/10 10:34 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: If you make a living with music, you are a musician....nuff said

That would make you a professional* musician.

nah man. what do you do for a living? drive a fed ex truck or something? that makes you a fed ex truck driver, not a musician

[thebigtarget1]

Musician technically means someone who reads music. But i think anyone who can put together a coherent song that doesnt make you want to cringe is a "musician" Basically if you think C C# and D sound nice together in a song then you are not a musician. :D

[djInTheDark]

Musician

- a person who makes music a profession, esp. as a performer of music.

- any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.

Note the second definition says "any person." So really it's just a matter of if you consider them skilled or not.

[amaterasu]

At 9/26/10 10:41 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote:

At 9/26/10 10:38 PM, amaterasu wrote:

At 9/26/10 10:34 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: If you make a living with music, you are a musician....nuff said

That would make you a professional* musician.

nah man. what do you do for a living? drive a fed ex truck or something? that makes you a fed ex truck driver, not a musician

You speak as if you can only hold a single title based on your profession. Kind of a limited view of things, wouldn't you say?

[thebigtarget1]

At 9/26/10 10:41 PM, thebigtarget1 wrote: Musician technically means someone who reads music. But i think anyone who can put together a coherent song that doesnt make you want to cringe is a "musician" Basically if you think C C# and D sound nice together in a song then you are not a musician. :D

oops sorry i was wrong here. it is much broader.
Music- we all know what that is
-ian - One from, belonging to, relating to, or like
So put the two things together and... A musician is anything or anyone relating to, belonging to, or from a history of music

[Breed]

Definitions of musician:

- someone who plays a musical instrument (as a profession)

- artist who composes or conducts music as a profession

nuff said again

[Breed]

my dictionary is better then yours

[amaterasu]

At 9/26/10 11:01 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: my dictionary is better then yours

It's ok, you're just being elitist about it...since your beloved *profession* is in music, you feel that people who are not in the same *profession* do not deserve the same title.

You can be as semantic about it as you wish, but the bottom line is you don't need to commit to music as a profession to be called a musician.

Proof? Type "amateur musician" in google and see how many results pop up.

[Breed]

im NOT elitist, just drunk, and elitist.

[GronmonSE]

At 9/26/10 10:41 PM, thebigtarget1 wrote: Musician technically means someone who reads music. But i think anyone who can put together a coherent song that doesnt make you want to cringe is a "musician" Basically if you think C C# and D sound nice together in a song then you are not a musician. :D

You can't make a song in a chromatic scale?

By the nine divines, Dream Theater are not real musicians!

[amaterasu]

Oh and before you're all "herp derp professional musician has over a million results.." consider that the point was amateur musicians are an accepted concept. Which destroys your idea.

kthxbye

[amaterasu]

At 9/26/10 11:10 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: im NOT elitist, just drunk, and elitist.

lol its all in good fun, I never take newgrounds debates too seriously (well at least after the age of 16)

[thebigtarget1]

You can't make a song in a chromatic scale?

By the nine divines, Dream Theater are not real musicians!

Walk up to a piano and play those three notes a the same time... You must not be a musician if you dont know that they dont sound good together.

[thebigtarget1]

At 9/26/10 11:22 PM, thebigtarget1 wrote:

You can't make a song in a chromatic scale?

By the nine divines, Dream Theater are not real musicians!

Walk up to a piano and play those three notes a the same time... You must not be a musician if you dont know that they dont sound good together.

just kidding i know what you meant. but i meant it if you play them at the same time :)

[GronmonSE]

At 9/26/10 11:22 PM, thebigtarget1 wrote:

You can't make a song in a chromatic scale?

By the nine divines, Dream Theater are not real musicians!

Walk up to a piano and play those three notes a the same time... You must not be a musician if you dont know that they dont sound good together.

Together in a song =/= chord.

I thought you meant to say in a consecutive order. C, C#, and D obviously sounds awful.

[GronmonSE]

Walk up to a piano and play those three notes a the same time... You must not be a musician if you dont know that they dont sound good together.

Together in a song =/= chord.

I thought you meant to say in a consecutive order. C, C#, and D obviously sounds awful.

Oops, beat me to it lol.

[TimeBender]

ive used reason 4 and since i retired from music production i wont be using reason 5. but if i ever get back in the game id like to pick up reason 5 and record 1.5, they look so damn nice.

[djInTheDark]

At 9/26/10 11:01 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: my dictionary is better then yours

Whatever you say, Mr. Drunk-Format-Copy-Singular-Title-Elitist .

Dictionary.com kills all you mofos.

[TimeBender]

At 9/26/10 11:26 PM, TimeBender wrote: ive used reason 4 and since i retired from music production i wont be using reason 5. but if i ever get back in the game id like to pick up reason 5 and record 1.5, they look so damn nice.

woops wrong thread. i meant for this in the other reason thread. sorry!

[Krank]

how far can you insert your bass into someones BRAIN

hah, actually for me personally I believe was defines me as a musician is that fact that I create value for people. I create music, they listen and enjoy it. I am delivering value to their lives, and music is the vessel. i believe music is a nominalization of a transfer of value from one person to another, or to himself!

[GronmonSE]

At 9/26/10 11:41 PM, Bjra wrote: i believe music is a nominalization of a transfer of value from one person to another, or to himself!

So it's like....sex and jacking off? Very enlightening, sir.

[l-l-u-m-a-n-s]

I believe that music is a just as underestimated and obsolete as the number zero .
I see sounds as the main theory behind these creations we compose . Sounds are what we listen to .
Sounds are what we create inorder to make a ''song'' . Yet, what is a song really ?
To me, all sounds should be appreciated by terms of being true . Just like words .. People
mark words like they are solid, when really when we see words our brain just corresponds in it's own signals . Which is why dogs get confused with you alot . They react through signals, and or patterns .
Humans react in patterns aswell, but are more deceptive, and complicated . Which is what sound implicates . So, I am not a musician, nor a ''musician'' .

I am just a world, within a world , that helps other
worlds experience my own .

l l u m a n s~

[Calamaistr]

not going to read the whole post but what i see as a musician is someone who has learned an instrument.

If you create music with that knowledge you're a composer, if youre a douche you call yourself a producer.

[SlaveLabor]

At 9/27/10 01:31 AM, l-l-u-m-a-n-s wrote: A crapton of stuff.

W-What?