The Rebel Flag is racist??

[Cootie]

What? I don't wear the rebel flag on my clothing nor do I even own one. But, for someone to think that this flag symbols racism is very silly if you ask me. The school I used to go to actually banned them. You would think that a school would contain people who knew a little bit about history. It is a shame really.

"But, isn't that the flag the Confederates used and didn't they have SLAVES?"

Indeed there was slavery in the south and it was used by the confederates. The north didn't have a climate that supported crops as well so they decided to work on industry instead. Slavery was more needed in the south. Now, slavery is wrong... but do you think we picked those slaves because they were black? Nope, black slaves were just easier to get our hands on.

The war really wasn't even about slavery. The issue was merely a vessel used by both sides. It was mainly fought over states rights; most of the people who fought (including Robert E Lee) either didn't own slaves and some thought slavery was very immoral. It was mainly about the south feeling as though their opinion didn't matter and since they joined the union by choice they should be able to leave by choice. Then Abraham Lincoln replied "Ummmm, no the fuck your not leaving".

We pretty much know how things played out from there. So, I was just wondering if you guys think that the flag is a "racist flag"?

[Falonefal]

I should totally go and attach this to my jacket, I mean, so what that it belonged to a fascist group of people.

[PeterM]

At 9/8/10 09:24 AM, Falonefal wrote: I should totally go and attach this to my jacket, I mean, so what that it belonged to a fascist group of people.

Apart from the fact it is derived from a Hindu symbol for peace which was around 2500 years before Hitler was even conceived.

[Cootie]

At 9/8/10 09:22 AM, silverback wrote:

At 9/8/10 09:19 AM, Cootie wrote: but do you think we picked those slaves because they were black?

Yes.

It's human nature to eat pigs and complain when people eat dogs. As long as we don't identify with the victim we're quite content.

Apart from me; I'm better.

Well surely we could have picked any other minority then. I know that slavery was a big part of it, but it just the snowball of issues that led up to the war.

When someone says a kid is racist because he chooses to wear a rebel flag I just roll my eyes. I don't wear it, but I know a few people who do and they aren't racist. It is just a sign of heritage to them.

[PeterM]

At 9/8/10 09:24 AM, Falonefal wrote: I should totally go and attach this to my jacket, I mean, so what that it belonged to a fascist group of people.

Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Do some reading and make yourself better than 99.9% of the worlds population :o)

[Luke]

"If you ever see someone fly this flag it means that that that person is a redneck and that that person is proud of their southern heritage. It does not, however, mean that that person is a racist."

[Trystlions]

The world is full of morons. In my stupid little country, people think that the national flag of Ireland is offence.

[PeterM]

At 9/8/10 09:30 AM, Trystlions wrote: The world is full of morons. In my stupid little country, people think that the national flag of Ireland is offence.

Try being brought up in Northern Ireland lol.

[RubberTrucky]

At 9/8/10 09:19 AM, Cootie wrote: but do you think we picked those slaves because they were black? Nope, black slaves were just easier to get our hands on.

Well, there were indians, but they couldn't work without dying. Then there were white people but they were too far advanced to use as slaves. Plus they actually mattered. Then there were animals. But they were at least dignified, right? So yeah, you're stuck with using black people, cause they have no soul and are worth far less than a mule.

I do agree that the civil war had probably more politics to it then freeing the slaves. But it took quite a while for black people to acquire an equality status among the whites. I don't think you can ask a supporter to the south whether blacks are equal to whites and them saying "Yeah, that's right and we were planning to get rid of slavery anyway."

But I do agree that all the crap about flags being used that are offensive being very bad. As long as you don't wear it to support the atrocious aspect, then it's not that bad Even the swastika might be worn without conveying the message it's okay to kill every jew on sight.

But I have a solution. I propose this sexist version, that's better than racist.

[Ryanson]

Sexism > Racism?

[Light]

Honestly, the Confederate flag has a nice design, and is not inherently racist, it just carries a racist connotation, lol.

[Makakaov]

At 9/8/10 09:19 AM, Cootie wrote: What? I don't wear the rebel flag on my clothing nor do I even own one. But, for someone to think that this flag symbols racism is very silly if you ask me. The school I used to go to actually banned them. You would think that a school would contain people who knew a little bit about history. It is a shame really.

"But, isn't that the flag the Confederates used and didn't they have SLAVES?"

Indeed there was slavery in the south and it was used by the confederates. The north didn't have a climate that supported crops as well so they decided to work on industry instead. Slavery was more needed in the south. Now, slavery is wrong... but do you think we picked those slaves because they were black? Nope, black slaves were just easier to get our hands on.

The war really wasn't even about slavery. The issue was merely a vessel used by both sides. It was mainly fought over states rights; most of the people who fought (including Robert E Lee) either didn't own slaves and some thought slavery was very immoral. It was mainly about the south feeling as though their opinion didn't matter and since they joined the union by choice they should be able to leave by choice. Then Abraham Lincoln replied "Ummmm, no the fuck your not leaving".

We pretty much know how things played out from there. So, I was just wondering if you guys think that the flag is a "racist flag"?

I see your point there. Bravo, and congratulations on using your mind and knowledge.

Also it's the first thread i see from you, which isn't bitching that belongs to your pink diary you hide under your pillow, so there's another one for you.

Both sides had their own cons and pros, and their own reasons to belong to each group. Confederates are described as the bad guys, but they must've had thier reasons to be confederates. If they would have to do only bad shit, they would refuse to do so. The same is with the Union.

The only why confederates are "bad" in America, is the fact that they lost a war. The winner writes history.

If confederates would win, the union would be called from turd idiots or something, and the flag of unionists would be banned.

And yea, president wouldn't be black.

[Falonefal]

At 9/8/10 09:28 AM, PeterM wrote:

At 9/8/10 09:24 AM, Falonefal wrote: I should totally go and attach this to my jacket, I mean, so what that it belonged to a fascist group of people.

Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Do some reading and make yourself better than 99.9% of the worlds population :o)

Yes, I did know all that, but it is also the Nazi Symbol, and people will not approve if I will put that on my jacket and walk around, and when I'm taken to the police, if I tell them about the wikipedia article, they'll say it doesn't matter because it's what the people feel when they see something is what counts.
So yea, I wouldn't use the Swastika anywhere because I know that under that sign millions of Jews were murdered, and although you'd say "Yes but the sign shouldn't have to pay for such idiocy, that's just unfair" it doesn't matter, it hurts people to see it.

However, in my most honest opinion, I think people are overreacting, and copying each other, it's like, everybody thinks that everybody thinks it's a bad sign, so they think it's a bad sign too.
It's going to be really hard to take it out of the system.

How would you explain yourself if you're wearing the Nazi Symbol on your arm and an officer approaches you and asks you about it?

[Cootie]

At 9/8/10 09:35 AM, RubberTrucky wrote:

I do agree that the civil war had probably more politics to it then freeing the slaves. But it took quite a while for black people to acquire an equality status among the whites. I don't think you can ask a supporter to the south whether blacks are equal to whites and them saying "Yeah, that's right and we were planning to get rid of slavery anyway."

True. It was much more about politics. And I would assure you that even if the South would had gained their independence (which was their right since they joined by choice they should be able to leave my choice) I have a feeling that they would had abolished slavery 20 to 30 years after the North. There were plenty of southern abolishment.

Among southerners the Civil War is viewed as something grand and not something be ashamed of. It was a group of people who fought for independence and state rights. They faired very well considering the north held every advantage possible over them. The soldiers on both sides are heros and need to be remembered as such.

And yes, once again... the south had every right to leave the union.

[Light]

At 9/8/10 09:36 AM, ryanson209 wrote: Sexism > Racism?

ALWAYS.

We're talking about sex, right?

[PeterM]

At 9/8/10 09:43 AM, Falonefal wrote:

How would you explain yourself if you're wearing the Nazi Symbol on your arm and an officer approaches you and asks you about it?

The Nazi logo is red, white and black.

If I was simply wearing an unmarked swastika and an officer approached me, I would educate him as to the history of the symbol and it's meanings in the past, regardless of how ignorant the officer was of it's true meaning.

People take great pride in wearing the Isle of Man symbol which is three legs conjoined via a central point. But this indeed is a swastika as well and it is rotational.

People just don't understand what some symbols truly mean because they are far too pre-occupied with assosciating it with the first thing that comes to mind and then vehemently defending their "moral sense as a citizen".

Whip out a Nazi swastika over in India and hardly anyone would bat an eyelid.

[Ryanson]

At 9/8/10 09:45 AM, Jedi-Master wrote:

At 9/8/10 09:36 AM, ryanson209 wrote: Sexism > Racism?

ALWAYS.

We're talking about sex, right?

With black people, yes.

[SuperSuperKLC]

REbel!!! Fight the Washington!!!

[Light]

At 9/8/10 09:50 AM, ryanson209 wrote:

At 9/8/10 09:45 AM, Jedi-Master wrote:

At 9/8/10 09:36 AM, ryanson209 wrote: Sexism > Racism?

ALWAYS.

We're talking about sex, right?

With black people, yes.

Eww.

[Light]

At 9/8/10 09:44 AM, Cootie wrote:
And yes, once again... the south had every right to leave the union.

I knew it! I motherfucking knew you would say that. :P

[WaterShake]

At 9/8/10 09:19 AM, Cootie wrote: What? I don't wear the rebel flag on my clothing nor do I even own one. But, for someone to think that this flag symbols racism is very silly if you ask me. The school I used to go to actually banned them. You would think that a school would contain people who knew a little bit about history. It is a shame really.

Whilst I understand the point your making, I disagree to an extent. The flag has become symbolic of slavery. Whilst there are many arguments you could present arguing that this is unfair, it's relatively irrefutable. The majority of people, especially those outside of America, associate the flag with slavery. With slavery, comes the connotation of ethnic tensions. Thus the flag seems destined to be connected to racism, rightly or wrongly.

In another instance, look at the symbol of the Swastika. It was in use for hundreds and hundreds of years as a religious and spiritual symbol. The same symbol is then used by an extremist political party; and now it has become an embodiment of fascism.

These associations are damaging and uncontrollable.

[Ryanson]

At 9/8/10 10:03 AM, Jedi-Master wrote:

At 9/8/10 09:50 AM, ryanson209 wrote:

At 9/8/10 09:45 AM, Jedi-Master wrote:

We're talking about sex, right?

With black people, yes.

Eww.

Hey, if I could bang Beyonce I totally would.

[Cootie]

At 9/8/10 10:04 AM, Jedi-Master wrote:

At 9/8/10 09:44 AM, Cootie wrote:
And yes, once again... the south had every right to leave the union.

I knew it! I motherfucking knew you would say that. :P

You think that they didn't have that right? The states joined by choice and should have the right to leave by choice. It would be like you joining a football team and the coach telling you that you can never quit.

[CacheHelper]

Lots of people have had slaves... all throughout history. Why is it not racist to wave a roman flag but it's racist to wave the confederate flag?

Plus... I agree with everything the OP said.
Oh, and on a side note, blacks where capturing other blacks and selling them to the white man.

Confederate flag, not racist. It's a shame you can't wave it with pride... a lot of people died for the flag.

[Light]

At 9/8/10 10:11 AM, Cootie wrote:
You think that they didn't have that right? The states joined by choice and should have the right to leave by choice. It would be like you joining a football team and the coach telling you that you can never quit.

Constitutionally, the question has never been answered, so I can't say.

[iPumas]

People are stupid and actually never ask people who bare the flag with pride why they have it because they assume that. In reality, the confederate flag is the symbol for the south.

[Cootie]

At 9/8/10 10:39 AM, Jedi-Master wrote:

At 9/8/10 10:11 AM, Cootie wrote:
You think that they didn't have that right? The states joined by choice and should have the right to leave by choice. It would be like you joining a football team and the coach telling you that you can never quit.

Constitutionally, the question has never been answered, so I can't say.

Well surely they should be able to. It would only be fair that a country would want to leave the union they should be allowed to do so. The join by choice and should be able to leave by choice.

[blue-ice-cube]

At 9/8/10 09:26 AM, PeterM wrote:

At 9/8/10 09:24 AM, Falonefal wrote: I should totally go and attach this to my jacket, I mean, so what that it belonged to a fascist group of people.

Apart from the fact it is derived from a Hindu symbol for peace which was around 2500 years before Hitler was even conceived.

i thought it was an old german symbol of good luck. thats what the history channle said.

[WaterShake]

At 9/8/10 01:13 PM, Cootie wrote:

At 9/8/10 10:39 AM, Jedi-Master wrote:

At 9/8/10 10:11 AM, Cootie wrote:
You think that they didn't have that right? The states joined by choice and should have the right to leave by choice. It would be like you joining a football team and the coach telling you that you can never quit.

Constitutionally, the question has never been answered, so I can't say.

Well surely they should be able to. It would only be fair that a country would want to leave the union they should be allowed to do so. The join by choice and should be able to leave by choice.

It depends entirely on the deal that was made. If initially, they signed up on the basis that they could leave whenever they wanted, then sure, let them leave. But if they signed up on a more conditional basis, i.e we will honour this union until x, or for y period, then they can't just leave at the drop of the hat. It's largely similar to contract infringement.

[Cootie]

At 9/8/10 01:16 PM, WaterShake wrote:

At 9/8/10 01:13 PM, Cootie wrote:

At 9/8/10 10:39 AM, Jedi-Master wrote:

At 9/8/10 10:11 AM, Cootie wrote:
You think that they didn't have that right? The states joined by choice and should have the right to leave by choice. It would be like you joining a football team and the coach telling you that you can never quit.

Constitutionally, the question has never been answered, so I can't say.

Well surely they should be able to. It would only be fair that a country would want to leave the union they should be allowed to do so. The join by choice and should be able to leave by choice.

It depends entirely on the deal that was made. If initially, they signed up on the basis that they could leave whenever they wanted, then sure, let them leave. But if they signed up on a more conditional basis, i.e we will honour this union until x, or for y period, then they can't just leave at the drop of the hat. It's largely similar to contract infringement.

I don't think you have any sort of contract requiring that you will never leave. I don't know if there is, but I highly doubt it. And if there was no rule against leaving when they joined then they should be able to leave any time you want.