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has china ever won a war?

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guywithaweirdyell
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has china ever won a war? 2010-08-22 00:38:53 Reply

ive noticed that whenever i read china was in some kind of major war, they got their asses kicked, like when genghis khan came, china was the world's strongest and most advanced country in the world, and they got their asses kicked by a few horse riders that lived in the mountains. :\

honestly, wtf?

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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-22 01:06:57 Reply

At 8/22/10 12:38 AM, guywithaweirdyell wrote: ive noticed that whenever i read china was in some kind of major war, they got their asses kicked, like when genghis khan came, china was the world's strongest and most advanced country in the world, and they got their asses kicked by a few horse riders that lived in the mountains. :\

honestly, wtf?

Well that was about 1000 years ago i I'm not mistaken, and you only mention one war, so that doesn't make China a loser of a country. Also, China tends not to get involved in conflicts, so I can't recall any wars that China has been in in the past 50 years. Hmm, maybe my memory isn't serving me well on this matter.


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Warforger
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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-22 01:08:21 Reply

Your comparing Genghis Khan? You gotta be kidding me, Genghis Khan had the best military in any setting ever, the Mongols built the greatest empire in the medieval era, ranging from China to Egypt, Genghis himself was a very brutal leader worse then Hitler, his spoils of war was usually women, he had so much sex that genetic tests of people form all across Asia resulted in 8% being linked to Genghis Khan, the guy was fighting an empire in Northern China in his last years and his last order before he died was to kill them all.

You really need to read up on the Dynasties anyway.


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lapis
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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-22 06:18:12 Reply

Since the reunification of China in 1949 they've won a minor war against India and during the war in Korea they achieved all their military objectives by pushing the UN forces back to the 38th parallel, ensuring the survival (even without loss of territory) of North Korea.

Throughout most of its history China has been able to rely on its massive size to compensate for its stagnation. In the 18th or 19th century this stopped being the case. But they've come a long way since 1949 --- at the very least they're no longer the pushovers that they used to be in the days of the Opium war and the invasion by fascist Japan.


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Camarohusky
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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-22 09:46:08 Reply

China has won tons of wars. The only reason it looks like they lose so much is that in the past 200 years they have suffered some high profile losses.

In ancient times when Rome was a baby, the Chinese were fielding armies of 1,000,000+ soldiers. In the 200s BC, the Chinese unified an area the size of Central and Western Europe. It has delved into civil wars on the scope of being split up into Europe sized countires, and then being reunited. In the mid 18th Century, right before the US Civil War, the Qing stopped at civil war in which over 30 million people rebelled in an area the size of Colorado. Its might was so strong that 20 million were killed.

A large reason they were beat by the Mongols was that the Song Dynasty, a dynasty built on technology not war, was in severe decline. It had already moved its capital east because of internal problems. Same thing with the Jurchen (Manchus) over the Ming, and the Europeans of the Qing. The Qing broke up in such a manner that China was never really unified until the Communists started to take over in the 1930's. Then Japan attacks during the middle of China's civil war. After that there havebeen no major wars involving China, save the Korean War, in which China single handedly pushed the US back from the border with CHina to the 45th parallel and held them there.

adrshepard
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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-22 11:48:07 Reply

At 8/22/10 09:46 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Then Japan attacks during the middle of China's civil war. After that there havebeen no major wars involving China, save the Korean War, in which China single handedly pushed the US back from the border with CHina to the 45th parallel and held them there.

Pushed the US, South Korea, and a whole host of other nations back, you mean, at a cost of nearly a million casualties.
Try not to sound so triumphant when you talk about the spread of communism.

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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-22 12:54:48 Reply

At 8/22/10 11:48 AM, adrshepard wrote: Pushed the US, South Korea, and a whole host of other nations back, you mean, at a cost of nearly a million casualties.

And? It took the Soviets 2+million deaths to conquer Berlin in WWII. Evidence shows the Americans and the British would have had to do nearly the same. Just because an objective is costly doesn't mean the objective is worthless. They pushed back the most powerful army on the earth at the time.

Try not to sound so triumphant when you talk about the spread of communism.

Try not to sound like a regressive patriotic fool when you speak. I highly respect China as a culture regardless of what government takes its hold there. Also, I love how your stupid fake patriotism picks out the one comment involving Communism and ignores the 95% of the rest not involving it. Grow up.

adrshepard
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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-22 18:33:05 Reply

At 8/22/10 12:54 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 8/22/10 11:48 AM, adrshepard wrote: Try not to sound so triumphant when you talk about the spread of communism.
Try not to sound like a regressive...

Oooh a regressive; like the opposite of a spineless, socialist progressive? I can live with that.

...patriotic fool when you speak. I highly respect China as a culture regardless of what government takes its hold there.

What the hell does culture have to do with it? It wasn't their culture that fought to preserve a society of intimidation and oppression.
My problem is in a thread about winning wars, you say "single-handedly" drove back the US, as though it demonstrated some special warfighting ability against a superior enemy. I think it's important to point out that that "ability" is sending millions of poorly armed and supplied peasants, knowing that hundreds will die for every casualty inflicted, in the hope the sheer mass of humanity will overwhelm the enemy. In any country where the majority of people live above the subsistence farming level that would be a bitter victory at best.

In any case, I've always believed that when a country with casualty ratios like that wins a war, it says more about the willingness of its enemy to fight than of its own fighting ability. Certainly true for Vietnam quite possibly for the Revolutionary War.

Also, I love how your stupid fake patriotism picks out the one comment involving Communism and ignores the 95% of the rest not involving it. Grow up.

It was your obtuse remarks that inspired me to respond, not my "fake" patriotism.

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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-22 23:08:55 Reply

At 8/22/10 12:54 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 8/22/10 11:48 AM, adrshepard wrote: Pushed the US, South Korea, and a whole host of other nations back, you mean, at a cost of nearly a million casualties.
And? It took the Soviets 2+million deaths to conquer Berlin in WWII. Evidence shows the Americans and the British would have had to do nearly the same.

Not exactly, what Stalin did was he took his two best generals, one took the Northern half the other took the Southern half, and made them compete to Berlin, the Northern one (Zhukov I think) didn't care about casualties just wanted to get the job done, so he was alot more wasteful of his soldiers, the Southern one tried being less wasteful but didn't advance as fast as Zhukov and so Zhukov took the glory and the other was ignored.


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orangebomb
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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-22 23:50:50 Reply

Is it me, or did we just discussed Russia's WW2 tactics when the thread is about China's involvment in wars? There was a thread about this a long time ago, but I digress.

The last time China was ever invested heavily in war was the Korean War in the early 50's, in an effort to spread Communism to the Korean penisula, and likely to Japan. Long before that, they were a superpower in the ancient world that controlled much of what is now Mongolia, Indochina, Korea, even all the way towards Afghanistan and Russia. And as other people already mentioned, towards the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries is when China went to a superpower to being a British colony, and then a Japanese colony in the 30's and 40's.

Their million man army, and their nuclear arsenal may be considered a threat down the road for America and Europe, but with money flooding through to China now, I doubt they are in position do any damage to us or anyone else in the future.


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Snrm
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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-23 02:34:59 Reply

China has had wars with itself a long time ago

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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-23 12:04:42 Reply

At 8/22/10 12:38 AM, guywithaweirdyell wrote: ive noticed that whenever i read china was in some kind of major war, they got their asses kicked, like when genghis khan came, china was the world's strongest and most advanced country in the world, and they got their asses kicked by a few horse riders that lived in the mountains. :\

honestly, wtf?

The Chinese have won more wars than you ever will in your lifetime.


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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-23 17:21:40 Reply

Didn't China defend the fuck out of their country against Mongolia by building a big-ass wall? That wasn't really a war, but it sure prevented one.


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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-23 19:32:32 Reply

Yes they won a series of wars up in Africa.


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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-23 19:41:32 Reply

At 8/23/10 05:21 PM, Scarface wrote: Didn't China defend the fuck out of their country against Mongolia by building a big-ass wall? That wasn't really a war, but it sure prevented one.

No it was to protect from the Huns, but the Mongols lived on the other side of the Gobi Desert, where the wall wasn't built because the desert itself was a good enough barrier, but the Tangents pissed the Mongols off by not sending soldiers to help in the Mongol conquests, they lived across the Gobi Desert and they thought it was a good enough barrier and if they did come they would be weakened to be killed, but no they went through the desert like nothing and the Tangents surrendered, this was Genghis's last years and his last order in response to the surrender plea was to kill them all and burn every trace.


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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-23 22:36:36 Reply

At 8/23/10 07:32 PM, tyler2513 wrote: Yes they won a series of wars up in Africa.

I don't ever recall China ever fighting a war in Africa, so unless you're trolling, I suggest reading up on your history.


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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-24 11:27:38 Reply

At 8/22/10 09:46 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

save the Korean War, in which China single handedly pushed the US back from the border with CHina to the 45th parallel and held them there.

NATO forces you mean, they pushed back NATO forces. Yes, this is my patriotism piquing up, because Canada fought there too, and lost men to the Chinese. What else did we do, we held worthless little hills against attacks more than three times the size of the garrison there. The Chinese did not exactly fight well. NATO did.

Being overwhelmed by a tsunami of charging bayonets does not mean that China was this amazing force. They just had lots of men, and lots of men died. That's not something to speak highly of, culture or not.

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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-24 19:55:25 Reply

At 8/24/10 11:27 AM, sinfulwolf wrote:
NATO forces you mean, they pushed back NATO forces. Yes, this is my patriotism piquing up, because Canada fought there too, and lost men to the Chinese.

Don't be so regressive.

guywithaweirdyell
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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-24 23:14:41 Reply

At 8/24/10 11:27 AM, sinfulwolf wrote:
At 8/22/10 09:46 AM, Camarohusky wrote:
Being overwhelmed by a tsunami of charging bayonets does not mean that China was this amazing force. They just had lots of men, and lots of men died. That's not something to speak highly of, culture or not.

exactly. today tsunami's of bayonets cant win either, unless of course, you dont have enough bullets.

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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-25 02:04:08 Reply

I think they lost a war in the 70s against Vietnam?


Well we were dumb enough to think it was gonna happen.

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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-25 04:13:38 Reply

China has won many wars throughout their millennial civilization. Koei the Japanese game maker has made many games about these conflicts.

What you likely refer to as Chinese losses, were internally, based on the many shifting dynasties. The Mongols (or the Yuan dynasty for instance as you mentioned), was one such dynasty, it was replaced by the Ming Dynasty. Which eventually lost to invading Manchurians, (but they adapted to our civilization, thus China remains intact, just a change in government. Compariable to when England was ruled by Normans, Vikings, and Saxons, (it's still England, just a different dynasty).

China like England is a congolomorate of many different civilizations defacto dominated by the Hans, but neverless, many races have had influence that shaped the country. As has the UK (with the Dominant civilization the English).


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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-25 10:35:10 Reply

At 8/24/10 07:55 PM, adrshepard wrote:
At 8/24/10 11:27 AM, sinfulwolf wrote:
NATO forces you mean, they pushed back NATO forces. Yes, this is my patriotism piquing up, because Canada fought there too, and lost men to the Chinese.
Don't be so regressive.

How is pointing out that more than the United States fought in Korea regressive?

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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-25 10:43:28 Reply

At 8/25/10 10:35 AM, sinfulwolf wrote: How is pointing out that more than the United States fought in Korea regressive?

It's regressive because people who post something (not pointing fingers) don't read the earlier posts in the thread.


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Response to has china ever won a war? 2010-08-25 13:17:55 Reply

Yeah right? you would think a country with 1 billion and an army of 200 million they'd be able to stop someone..hell no! but that doesn't say they are still a treat to the U.S. But of course they've never won a war on the battlefield but in the homes of every American with it's cheap products and labor workforce.