Stop Camp 22!!!

[EddyDTheDuck]

In the remote north-eastern corner of North Korea, close to the border of Russia and China, is Haengyong. Hidden away in the mountains, this remote town is home to Camp 22 - North Korea's largest concentration camp, where thousands of men, women and children accused of political crimes are held.

It is also where thousands die each year and where prison guards stamp on the necks of babies born to prisoners to kill them.

Those who have lived to tell us about Camp 22 can be counted on the fingers of one hand, and all of them are former guards or staff. Of all of North Korea's numerous labor camps and detention facilities, large and small, Camp 22 is one of the largest, and almost certainly the most terrible, if only for the inhuman experiments witnesses say were done to the men, women, children, and even infants sent there.

Over the past year harrowing first-hand testimonies from North Korean defectors have detailed execution and torture, and now chilling evidence has emerged that the walls of Camp 22 hide an even more evil secret: gas chambers where horrific chemical experiments are conducted on human beings.

Witnesses have described watching entire families being put in glass chambers and gassed. They are left to an agonising death while scientists take notes.

People say to never forget the holocaust, yet the same events are happening again. Thousands of political prisoners, christians, and innocent people are dying every day in these prison camps.
'For too long the horrendous suffering of the people of North Korea, especially those imprisoned in unspeakably barbaric prison camps, has been met with silence ... It is imperative that the international community does not continue to turn a blind eye to these atrocities which should weigh heavily on the world's conscience.'

We must realise what is going on today.

To show your support to our cause, please join the following Facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=13 9336799434427

While in reality there is very little a tiny facebook group can do alone, we need to spread the word. We have to notify whoever we can and maybe, with enough numbers, we can put enough pressure on governments around the world to make them ask more questions.

Please help to make a difference. Thank you.

[Warforger]

Basically what your saying is that if we gain enough supporters we can stop North Korea, a country which everyone hates, who everyone knows how terrible it is, poor and full of gulags for the slightest negative comment like "why is there less food in the ration?". North Korea won't give a fuck, their people don't know shit, there is no internet in North Korea hell there's not even enough electricity in North Korea.

Basiclly, you can't stop North Korea, Kimg JOng Il doesn't give a shit what you think, he just has to use threats to make everyone look at him and his country again so that humanitarian groups can brin gin food to feed his people.

[EddyDTheDuck]

At 8/18/10 03:59 PM, Warforger wrote: Basically what your saying is that if we gain enough supporters we can stop North Korea

No, that's not what i'm saying. What i'm saying is that nothing is being done to stop what is basically the holocaust all over again.

And while we can't do anything ourselves, what we can do is show our politicians and leaders that we want action.

[aviewaskewed]

At 8/18/10 04:12 PM, EddyDTheDuck wrote: And while we can't do anything ourselves, what we can do is show our politicians and leaders that we want action.

Which will simply result in "official condemnation" and that's it. Because North Korea has nukes, and no one fucks with a nuclear state anymore. That's why all these wars anymore tend to be super powers against small little dictators (like Saddam) because they know they don't have the weapons capability to just vaporize the troops coming across and the potential to shoot something really horrible into a city or some such.

I'm not saying it's right, N Korea is a hell hole that badly needs regime change but it's obvious to even a casual observer it isn't going to happen through a foreign power coming in and invading, it'd have to be home grown. But like Warforger said, there's no way to let the people know how fucked over they are because they aren't allowed access to information.

[Soapbubble]

As far as I can tell, there's no way to end the dictatorship in NK without having to assassinate a long list of top "politicians" in NK. Including the entire family, heir to the "throne", all the top military advisors and all of the other people in direct contact with Kim Jong Il.

And even then you'd have an entire people to convince that North Korea is NOT the best country in the world, because yes, the people of NK really does believe that.

[Warforger]

At 8/18/10 04:46 PM, Soapbubble wrote: As far as I can tell, there's no way to end the dictatorship in NK without having to assassinate a long list of top "politicians" in NK. Including the entire family, heir to the "throne", all the top military advisors and all of the other people in direct contact with Kim Jong Il.

An easier way is to kill Kim Jong Il, capture the launch codes for the nuclear weapons then back up one of the factions which likes us the most and establish a Pro-West country.

At 8/18/10 04:46 PM, Soapbubble wrote: And even then you'd have an entire people to convince that North Korea is NOT the best country in the world, because yes, the people of NK really does believe that.

They know that they aren't the best, that's why people try to escape.

[Soapbubble]

At 8/18/10 05:26 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 8/18/10 04:46 PM, Soapbubble wrote: As far as I can tell, there's no way to end the dictatorship in NK without having to assassinate a long list of top "politicians" in NK. Including the entire family, heir to the "throne", all the top military advisors and all of the other people in direct contact with Kim Jong Il.

An easier way is to kill Kim Jong Il, capture the launch codes for the nuclear weapons then back up one of the factions which likes us the most and establish a Pro-West country.

I guess we could get help from Japan, but remember that North Korea has more than just nukes. They have a huge line of rockets lined up to hit various countries around them, mainly South Korea. If NK was to be attacked, South Korea would be destroyed in hours.

At 8/18/10 04:46 PM, Soapbubble wrote: And even then you'd have an entire people to convince that North Korea is NOT the best country in the world, because yes, the people of NK really does believe that.

They know that they aren't the best, that's why people try to escape.

Some know this, all of them don't. You saw the Korean footballers cry during their national anthem, right? That's how much they love their own country. Kim Jong Il is not just their leader, he is a divine power to them.

[Warforger]

At 8/18/10 05:51 PM, Soapbubble wrote:

At 8/18/10 05:26 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 8/18/10 04:46 PM, Soapbubble wrote: As far as I can tell, there's no way to end the dictatorship in NK without having to assassinate a long list of top "politicians" in NK. Including the entire family, heir to the "throne", all the top military advisors and all of the other people in direct contact with Kim Jong Il.

An easier way is to kill Kim Jong Il, capture the launch codes for the nuclear weapons then back up one of the factions which likes us the most and establish a Pro-West country.

I guess we could get help from Japan, but remember that North Korea has more than just nukes. They have a huge line of rockets lined up to hit various countries around them, mainly South Korea. If NK was to be attacked, South Korea would be destroyed in hours.

Nah. Its not THAT bad, you have to remember during the Bosnian war Sarajevo was sieged for 3 years, for the entire war, yet it still survived, likewise Seoul will survive the missiles most likely. Also Japan can't do anything, they can only defend themselves from a potential threat, otherwise Japan is a base for the US military for offensive purposes, in South Korea on the other hand, its military is much more advanced and better trained then the North Korean military, it can easily gain air superiority in a matter of days and take over North Korea just like how the Coaltion took down Iraq.

At 8/18/10 04:46 PM, Soapbubble wrote: And even then you'd have an entire people to convince that North Korea is NOT the best country in the world, because yes, the people of NK really does believe that.

They know that they aren't the best, that's why people try to escape.

Some know this, all of them don't. You saw the Korean footballers cry during their national anthem, right? That's how much they love their own country. Kim Jong Il is not just their leader, he is a divine power to them.

That's how much they are forced to love their country, its impossible to tell the difference between people who geniunly love their country and government or faking it so that they don't get killed.

Again, people who were advisers to Kim Jong Il have defected, and you'd expect people like that to kill defectors!

[riemannSum]

Yeah, forget the nukes and the lack of humanitarian rights, we gotta worry about this camp!

[Sispri]

Well yeah, it's no secret that human rights are an issue in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Sadly, a petition would not have much effect in the grand scheme. Sure it raises awareness, but it would not cause a revolution if that's what you're thinking.

It's funny that aside from the arbitrary detentions, humanitarian aid dependency, and squalid living conditions, North Korea is considered very peaceful and crime rates are low. The by-product of a police state I suppose.

At 8/18/10 04:46 PM, Soapbubble wrote: As far as I can tell, there's no way to end the dictatorship in NK without having to assassinate a long list of top "politicians" in NK. Including the entire family, heir to the "throne", all the top military advisors and all of the other people in direct contact with Kim Jong Il.

A full scale military invasion in which the entire regime is ousted, yes. This would effectively end the authoritarian government.

And even then you'd have an entire people to convince that North Korea is NOT the best country in the world, because yes, the people of NK really does believe that.

Well I doubt that the citizens would have a choice if the government is toppled. It would be immediately "westernized" assuming that the U.S. and South Korea lead the assault.

In all reality, North Korea is generally not a threat to anyone. Sure their citizens are extremely nationalistic, but they are unarmed and subjugated to the propaganda they are fed 24/7. There could be no "resistance" from the general population. It would be extremely unwise for Kim Jong-il to attack the South Korea or any country. China will not go to war for North Korea. I'm certain on that. China would probably cut off supplies to North Korea if they went to war, lest they be condemned by the UN for aiding a hostile country (assuming the DPRK was the preemptive striker).

Camps of political dissent will always be present in a dictatorship. It's just in the nature of absolute power.

[Patton3]

At 8/18/10 08:48 PM, riemannSum wrote: Yeah, forget the nukes and the lack of humanitarian rights, we gotta worry about this camp!

I can say with some confidence that he's just using it as an example of the blatant human rights violations. But taking it literally and looking like an ass is cool too.

[orangebomb]

Like North Korea would ever care about what the rest of the world thinks, I'm sure they don't have Facebook there, much less anything else.

ZOMG, a death camp in the middle of a shithole nobody knows where or gives a damn about, because there is nothing we can do about it. Kim Jong Ill in the head thinks you are futile for trying.

[Warforger]

At 8/18/10 10:47 PM, orangebomb wrote: Like North Korea would ever care about what the rest of the world thinks, I'm sure they don't have Facebook there, much less anything else.

They don't even have internet, even if they did only Kim Jong Il would receive it.

[Probably]

hey man i loved space camp when i was like 14 and shit hahahah why you wanna stop it??

[LoliTastic]

It's a horrible thing that this is happening. It is a good idea if this is for raising awareness. But the people of North Korea are pretty much clueless about this type of stuff, they don't know anything about what their government is up to

[riemannSum]

At 8/18/10 10:42 PM, Patton3 wrote:
I can say with some confidence that he's just using it as an example of the blatant human rights violations. But taking it literally and looking like an ass is cool too.

Well, since he doesn't mention the abundant lack of human rights in DPRK, and the page he linked to doesn't mention that either, I have a hard time understanding where you got that idea.

[TehTrollKing]

Sad indeed, but other than ICBM's what could we do?

[HibiscusKazeneko]

At 8/18/10 03:59 PM, Warforger wrote: Basiclly, you can't stop North Korea, Kimg JOng Il doesn't give a shit what you think, he just has to use threats to make everyone look at him and his country again so that humanitarian groups can brin gin food to feed his people.

Which he will then siphon off and stuff his own greedy face with.

[studmuffin7]

You guys do realize that people outside America use the interweb too right? Kim Jung Ill could be here with us as we speak...

[Chris-V2]

At 8/19/10 02:38 PM, studmuffin7 wrote: You guys do realize that people outside America use the interweb too right? Kim Jung Ill could be here with us as we speak...

DUN DA DUN DUN

Kim Jong Il is too busy making movies and having cancer to worry about his international reputation - which he already knows is pretty bad. He's pretty paranoid about the western world, funnily enough, and poverty is so extreme in certain parts that even if they could get around internet censorship I doubt they'd come here.

[Patton3]

At 8/19/10 08:54 AM, riemannSum wrote:
Well, since he doesn't mention the abundant lack of human rights in DPRK, and the page he linked to doesn't mention that either, I have a hard time understanding where you got that idea.

When someone points to a concentration camp inside of nation, is it really necessary to go on to say "This country is committing blatant human rights violations"? The link is rallying against a particularly heinous example of it, not denying the other human rights violations committed by North Korea.

[Warforger]

At 8/19/10 02:38 PM, studmuffin7 wrote: You guys do realize that people outside America use the interweb too right? Kim Jung Ill could be here with us as we speak...

Actually its simple fact that North Korea has no internet, you would've known that if you read my post.

[HooglyBoogly]

This is really not shocking news. Every dictatorship/one-party government under the sun has forms of Concentration Camps. This is how they maintain power. Wiping out all and any who oppose.

Hell, the CIA even has camps located in Afghanistan! The prisoners there wish they could be gassed to death rather than undergo the torture they have to deal with.

[animehater]

At 8/20/10 05:31 PM, HooglyBoogly wrote: Hell, the CIA even has camps located in Afghanistan! The prisoners there wish they could be gassed to death rather than undergo the torture they have to deal with.

The fuck are you on?

[jlwelch]

At 8/19/10 04:45 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 8/19/10 02:38 PM, studmuffin7 wrote: You guys do realize that people outside America use the interweb too right? Kim Jung Ill could be here with us as we speak...

Actually its simple fact that North Korea has no internet, you would've known that if you read my post.

I did read your post and I figured you pulled that out of your ass. Even if the rest of North Korea doesn't have the internet, you can be sure Kim Jung Ill does. He is living in luxury at the expense of his people, do you really think he would go without internet?

[Sajberhippien]

At 8/18/10 05:26 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 8/18/10 04:46 PM, Soapbubble wrote: As far as I can tell, there's no way to end the dictatorship in NK without having to assassinate a long list of top "politicians" in NK. Including the entire family, heir to the "throne", all the top military advisors and all of the other people in direct contact with Kim Jong Il.

An easier way is to kill Kim Jong Il, capture the launch codes for the nuclear weapons then back up one of the factions which likes us the most and establish a Pro-West country.

That won't help the people though. Saudi-arabia and china are both "pro-west" and have alliances with western countries, but the people in those countries still suffer from a brutal regime.

[Camarohusky]

At 8/20/10 06:30 PM, animehater wrote:

At 8/20/10 05:31 PM, HooglyBoogly wrote: Hell, the CIA even has camps located in Afghanistan! The prisoners there wish they could be gassed to death rather than undergo the torture they have to deal with.

The fuck are you on?

The "Secret torture camps" that Obama shut down were empty.

[TheMason]

I love Korea. I lived there for two years while stationed in the USAF and as a poli sci grad student my primary interest was (and is) the Koreas. I wish I had a magic wand that I could wave and make the Kim dynasty disappear and turn the North into a modern country with a keen respect of civil rights.

Unfortunately, it is not that easy. Nor does the North's nuclear arsenal matter that much. He doesn't have enough warheads to pose a threat, nor does he have a reliable missile system to deliever the weapons.

The main WMD threat is his biological (one of the top two best in the world) and chemical programs. With these he can reign hell on the South and cause potentially millions of casualties in Seoul.

However, his conventional threat is not that great. The collapse of the Soviet Union and China's making nice with the West has caused serious logistical issues with his military. In short; he doesn't have enough gas to push too far into the South.

What stops the US and West from acting is geopolitics.

1) China and S. Korea are highly skeptical of Japan. Afterall, the atrocities of Japan from the early 1900s to 1945 match those of NAZI Germany. Therefore, Japan could not be involved. In fact USAF warplanes operating from Japanese bases may be problematic.

2) As much as the US military presence keeps Japan demilitarized and thus not a threat to China (for eons Japan and China have fought wars with each other...often Japan being the aggressor and invading via Korea)...China does not want to loose the buffer zone between US military bases and their border. This is what N. Korea provides...so China supports them. (In fact it is believed that this week's trip to China by Kim is Kim introducing his son as the next Leader.)

In short, just like in Darfur, all the protests and petitions in the world is not going to close Camp-22. The N. Korean leadership is unique in that they totally don't give a fuck what the rest of the world thinks. Pyongyang only cares about what goes on in their own country.

As much as I sympathize with you and agree with your principles...they aren't known as the Hermit Kingdom for nothing. The only way to solve the crimes against humanity that occur daily at the hands of this vile regime would be the forcible ouster of the N. Korean government.

[HooglyBoogly]

At 8/20/10 06:30 PM, animehater wrote:

At 8/20/10 05:31 PM, HooglyBoogly wrote: Hell, the CIA even has camps located in Afghanistan! The prisoners there wish they could be gassed to death rather than undergo the torture they have to deal with.

The fuck are you on?

Somebody watches a little too much television.