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At 8/14/10 06:21 PM, Chris-V2 wrote: Phosphorous gassing of schools? Mass home demolition? We've been through this. Honestly satanbrian, it surprises me you get as far Internet Explorer without getting lost by the intricacies of it all.

schools and homes where rockets shooters hide. we've been through this too.

At 8/14/10 11:21 PM, satanbrain wrote:

At 8/14/10 06:21 PM, Chris-V2 wrote: Phosphorous gassing of schools? Mass home demolition? We've been through this. Honestly satanbrian, it surprises me you get as far Internet Explorer without getting lost by the intricacies of it all.

schools and homes where rockets shooters hide. we've been through this too.

.......So you use weapons which knowingly damage the civilians as well as the terrorists and say its just collateral damage. Firing a hellfire missile is one thing, deploying chemical weapons is another.

At 8/15/10 12:51 AM, Warforger wrote:

At 8/14/10 11:21 PM, satanbrain wrote:

At 8/14/10 06:21 PM, Chris-V2 wrote: Phosphorous gassing of schools? Mass home demolition? We've been through this. Honestly satanbrian, it surprises me you get as far Internet Explorer without getting lost by the intricacies of it all.

schools and homes where rockets shooters hide. we've been through this too.

.......So you use weapons which knowingly damage the civilians as well as the terrorists and say its just collateral damage. Firing a hellfire missile is one thing, deploying chemical weapons is another.

we always warn the civilians before we damage. if civilians are forced to stay because hamas ordered them to do so it's not our fault.

At 8/15/10 07:24 AM, satanbrain wrote:

At 8/15/10 12:51 AM, Warforger wrote:

At 8/14/10 11:21 PM, satanbrain wrote:

At 8/14/10 06:21 PM, Chris-V2 wrote: Phosphorous gassing of schools? Mass home demolition? We've been through this. Honestly satanbrian, it surprises me you get as far Internet Explorer without getting lost by the intricacies of it all.

schools and homes where rockets shooters hide. we've been through this too.

.......So you use weapons which knowingly damage the civilians as well as the terrorists and say its just collateral damage. Firing a hellfire missile is one thing, deploying chemical weapons is another.

we always warn the civilians before we damage. if civilians are forced to stay because hamas ordered them to do so it's not our fault.

"Mr Prosser said: 'You were quite entitled to make any suggestions or protests at the appropriate time you know.'

'Appropriate time?' hooted Arthur. 'Appropriate time? The first I knew about it was when a workman arrived at my home yesterday. I asked him if he'd come to clean the windows and he said no he'd come to demolish the house. He didn't tell me straight away of course. Oh no. First he wiped a couple of windows and charged me a fiver. Then he told me.'"

In all seriousness, don't you think that is at all even slightly silly to assume? That the only reason people stay in their homes is because Hamas forces them to? I'm staying in my home right now. If someone came and told me insurgents are hiding in my closet I'd probably say something like "Oh" and put on a kettle...

At 8/15/10 08:14 AM, zephiran wrote: In all seriousness, don't you think that is at all even slightly silly to assume? That the only reason people stay in their homes is because Hamas forces them to? I'm staying in my home right now. If someone came and told me insurgents are hiding in my closet I'd probably say something like "Oh" and put on a kettle...

you don't believe the IDF, i do. would you stay in your home if a 'workman' came into your house and hid his 'tools'? the IDF told them to go away from the war zone, they didn't.

At 8/15/10 07:24 AM, satanbrain wrote: we always warn the civilians before we damage. if civilians are forced to stay because hamas ordered them to do so it's not our fault.

So you then harm them when you could instead just hit the terrorists. That sounds unnecessary.

At 8/15/10 01:32 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 8/15/10 07:24 AM, satanbrain wrote: we always warn the civilians before we damage. if civilians are forced to stay because hamas ordered them to do so it's not our fault.

So you then harm them when you could instead just hit the terrorists. That sounds unnecessary.

but to hit the terrorists we need to hit thier hiding place and the place they are hiding their rockets. we won't waste time and efforts to scare civilians, we are not terrorists.

At 8/15/10 01:10 PM, satanbrain wrote:

At 8/15/10 08:14 AM, zephiran wrote: In all seriousness, don't you think that is at all even slightly silly to assume? That the only reason people stay in their homes is because Hamas forces them to? I'm staying in my home right now. If someone came and told me insurgents are hiding in my closet I'd probably say something like "Oh" and put on a kettle...

you don't believe the IDF, i do. would you stay in your home if a 'workman' came into your house and hid his 'tools'? the IDF told them to go away from the war zone, they didn't.

He was quoting The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galancy to show the comic absurdity of the situation. Frankly if a government said they were demolishing my home, I wouldn't leave. Who the fuck are the IDF to tell them where they can live? They're in no way entitled to do what they're doing, they're not the ruling force in Gaza.

Telling them to leave the warzone is ridiculous. Where would they go? Why should they have to go? Why should their lives be displaced by the Israeli war machine?

There's a difference between being a Palestinian Symphathiser and a Palestinian Empathisers. Have you even tried to look at the situation from the perspective of a family well below the poverty line living in Gaza and why they might hold certain attitudes towards Israel? Or is self rightousness the only fuel you can use to keep yourselves going?

At 8/15/10 01:34 PM, satanbrain wrote: but to hit the terrorists we need to hit thier hiding place and the place they are hiding their rockets. we won't waste time and efforts to scare civilians, we are not terrorists.

So instead of storming the place you just blow it up. How does that make any sense?

At 8/15/10 02:11 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 8/15/10 01:34 PM, satanbrain wrote: but to hit the terrorists we need to hit thier hiding place and the place they are hiding their rockets. we won't waste time and efforts to scare civilians, we are not terrorists.

So instead of storming the place you just blow it up. How does that make any sense?

we can't storm trapped buildings.

If we're going to be examining this survey, I thought I might introduce some other findings from it.
(Link at the bottom)

75% of people polled believe that the Israelis brought the current conflict upon themselves. I personally agree.

86% would accept peace if Israel returned all territory owned by Palestine before 1967. That's most Arabs' main grief; Israel's invasion and occupation of Muslim lands. Most Arabs (agrees this poll) identify with Islam more than their own nationality. The removal of Palestinians from their land is considered a huge crime in the Arab world, and I sympathize. In my mind, Israel has to accept that they are going to be attacked if they choose to invade Palestine like they have. If you're going to forcibly take over a country, the inhabitants are going to fight you for it... duh. Just my take on it.

When asked to name two countries "that you think pose the biggest threat to you", roughly 75% named both the U.S. and Israel. When asked a similar question about which two countries were being the most constructive, 6% included the U.S. In many Arab minds, Israel, with American backing, is in a position to assert its control in the Middle East and possibly attack Islam as a whole. And to an Arab, that's not cool.

So all of that said, I understand (but do not sympathize with) why so few of the polled said they empathized with the Jews in the Holocaust. First, I think they are frustrated with the lionization of Jews as peace-loving victims who just want to live happily in Israel, but cannot because of those darned Palestinians. It's hard to sympathize with a group of people who you believe is engaged in war against your people, no matter how terrible their history may be. I'm not saying we should devalue the Holocaust, not at all, but what happened doesn't magically confer on all Jews special privileges. Like the right to carve a homeland out of someone else's country.

As a final note, I'd like to point out that the study concluded, among other things, that there are "remarkably stable views on the Arab-Israeli conflict and the prospects of its resolution" amongst the polled. Yeah.

Link to the survey in question conducted by the Brooking Institution, a non-profit Washington think tank:
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/r c/reports/2010/08_arab_opinion_poll_telh ami/08_arab_opinion_poll_telhami.pdf

At 8/9/10 01:05 AM, RobotTaco wrote:

At 8/9/10 12:51 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 8/9/10 12:27 AM, RobotTaco wrote:

hur dur What Jews were living in Palestine before the dissolving of the Ottoman Empire?

hur dur What ever happened to the U.N. Partition plan that the Israelis failed to follow?

hurrrrrrrr durrrrrrrrr

I love it when people post with that "hur dur" stuff as it reveals just how stupid they really are. The UN and the US do not recognize Palestine as a country so it is not. We recognized the Ottomans prior to their dissolvement, and we recognize Israel. That is all there is to it.

At 8/15/10 02:46 PM, satanbrain wrote:

At 8/15/10 02:11 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 8/15/10 01:34 PM, satanbrain wrote: but to hit the terrorists we need to hit thier hiding place and the place they are hiding their rockets. we won't waste time and efforts to scare civilians, we are not terrorists.

So instead of storming the place you just blow it up. How does that make any sense?

we can't storm trapped buildings.

So you fought a war with Hamas in Gaza, won in a year, managed to get single digit deaths while the enemy and civilian population got triple digit deaths, yet you don't storm buildings and instead fire rockets at the building and at the civilians so you won't waste time and scare the civilians. It sounds like you can easily stomp on the enemy since your better trained, better equipped, and have large amounts of experience in the area and your solution is to bomb the place into hell, while your defending your actions America was doing the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan and seems to have been handling the situation better then you are in Gaza.

At 8/19/10 08:21 PM, Warforger wrote: So you fought a war with Hamas in Gaza, won in a year, managed to get single digit deaths while the enemy and civilian population got triple digit deaths,

the intifada wasn't a singe digit, a year, nor a win.

At 8/20/10 12:18 AM, satanbrain wrote:

At 8/19/10 08:21 PM, Warforger wrote: So you fought a war with Hamas in Gaza, won in a year, managed to get single digit deaths while the enemy and civilian population got triple digit deaths,

the intifada wasn't a singe digit, a year, nor a win.

I was referring to the 08-09 war in Gaza.

The intifada was pathetic, 1000 Israeli's died, and the Palestinians who have it so well off had the minuscule death toll at....5,000...... terrible.

At 8/20/10 12:35 AM, Warforger wrote: The intifada was pathetic, 1000 Israeli's died, and the Palestinians who have it so well off had the minuscule death toll at....5,000...... terrible.

it wasn't 5000, less than 2000, and most of them were terrorists who suicide bombing themselves.

At 8/20/10 01:05 AM, satanbrain wrote:

At 8/20/10 12:35 AM, Warforger wrote: The intifada was pathetic, 1000 Israeli's died, and the Palestinians who have it so well off had the minuscule death toll at....5,000...... terrible.

it wasn't 5000, less than 2000, and most of them were terrorists who suicide bombing themselves.

Well according to Wiki the Gaza War death toll for Israel was 13, 10 soldiers 4 of which were killed by freindly fire. The death toll of Palestine was 1,417 - 255 of which were Police Officers, 313 were children and roughly 900 were Non-Combatants PCHR (730 according to B'Selem, 250 according to IDF).

It sounds to me like you're both quoting the figures for the number of wounded.