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Am I a fool?

Most of what I learned about coding has merely been for website design (whatever C++ I learned in highschool a decade ago has long since been forgotten, but I'd like to pick it back up again).

I'm sure whatever coding programs that are out there are far superior to what was out back then, but someone typing it all out character to character has always felt more comforting (plus I've often felt I get more familiarity with what I'm using when I can actually see how and why it does what it does).

(I think the biggest turnoff to me back then was that a lot of those programs seemed to add in tags that weren't entirely necessary would truncate everything down into one big, block of text which made things hard to read)

If you don't want to use an IDE (like Visual Studio or Eclipse), then you can at least use a text editor with syntax highlighting.

I understand - sometimes you just want to do some quick editing without waiting for some bulky program (like CS5) to load. When I just want to use a text editor, I like Crimson Editor because you can change the syntax highlighting to whatever language you're using, and you can create your own macros to save some time. I also like to use PyPE for python projects, and a few other text editors for various things.

Notepad's simplicity is nice, but it lacks some key features that every coder should have.

But really, for anything other than HTML, it's best to use a real development environment.

At 7/30/10 10:26 PM, SchadenfreudeStudios wrote: Am I a fool?

Not at all. I still coded using notepad for several years, until I finally switched to nodepad++ which is really just notepad with certain words highlighted.

I'm sure whatever coding programs that are out there are far superior to what was out back then, but someone typing it all out character to character has always felt more comforting (plus I've often felt I get more familiarity with what I'm using when I can actually see how and why it does what it does).

Exact same reason why I sticked with notepad.

At 7/30/10 10:26 PM, SchadenfreudeStudios wrote: (I think the biggest turnoff to me back then was that a lot of those programs seemed to add in tags that weren't entirely necessary would truncate everything down into one big, block of text which made things hard to read)

Depends on how you use the program, I use dreamweaver in code view and nothing extra has ever been added to anything I have made.

Saying that the only reason I am still using dreamweaver is because I have yet to find another IDE that differentiates the highlighting on HTML tags, seems to be all HTML shows in one colour, all attributes in another, I like how dreamweaver highlights images, anchors and divs.

No way is it foolish to still be using Notepad, it's great to just jot down quick squints of code while you have a brainwave in the Notepad environment.

Saying that, when I do code, it's with Notepad++. A very lightweight piece of software which includes a majority all the perks a developer would need...

Not to mention plugins!

lol u still use a notepad
ur like that programer adam that a hobo killed

I've only recently started using Eclipse, but only because I have to start learning Java for college. >:(

Otherwise, I've mostly used Notepad for coding. There's something very visceral about putting code in a .cpp file, going into the command line to compile it by typing in the command letter by letter, and seeing everything you worked on displayed before you. It's not how I learned programming; I started by using Dev-C++. It's just something about the Notepad-compiler combo.... I also use Notepad++, but only on rare occasions.

Most of what I learned about coding has merely been for website design...a lot of those programs seemed to add in tags

I think you are referring to HTML+CSS, which isn't programming, just markup. If that's true, you can use whatever text editor you want, since that's exactly what you're doing: editing text. Even MS Word will get the job done. The only major features missing in notepad are code completion and syntax highlighting, which are nice but not mandatory.

However, if you are actually programming, you need to learn how to use a real IDE. When you work on massive or very complex projects with multiple people, it is imperative that you have tools like a hierarchy viewer, debugger, code generation, etc.

At 8/1/10 03:05 PM, fourthfrench wrote: I think you are referring to HTML+CSS, which isn't programming, just markup.

True

However, if you are actually programming, you need to learn how to use a real IDE. When you work on massive or very complex projects with multiple people, it is imperative that you have tools like a hierarchy viewer, debugger, code generation, etc.

False. Although an Integrated Developer's Environment (IDE) is extremely useful and can expedite the process of large-scale development, it is not technically necessary.

And for very small-scale projects, like single file programs that one can run on the command line, an IDE can sometimes be a bit of a burden.

i do the same exact thing....when i learned html & css, i was taught using notepad and now that's all i use and i look down on people that use those programs because they don't even have to know the code....it's like photoshop or something...they just click to type where they want the text and so on....here's an idea, learn the f***ing code and you won't make consistently shitty websites

At 8/2/10 07:12 AM, wagnerben wrote: i do the same exact thing....when i learned html & css, i was taught using notepad and now that's all i use and i look down on people that use those programs because they don't even have to know the code....it's like photoshop or something...they just click to type where they want the text and so on....here's an idea, learn the f***ing code and you won't make consistently shitty websites

I'm assuming your talking about Dreamweaver or something? Either way a pointless thing to say. IDEs help you improve productivity, theirs no two ways about it.

At 8/1/10 03:05 PM, fourthfrench wrote: I think you are referring to HTML+CSS, which isn't programming, just markup.

Ah, I was referring not to the languages themselves, but the web site designer programs themselves. Atleast, I think I was. I don't remember anymore.

I'll have to look into Notepad++; it sounds intriguing.

At 8/4/10 03:13 PM, SchadenfreudeStudios wrote: I'll have to look into Notepad++; it sounds intriguing.

yes and install its plugin Zen Coding.
it'll make your life really really easy!
I also use notepad++ for web development btw.

For some reason everyone seems to be very anti-IDE so far. I started coding in notepad and it was fine for starting, but if you have a project that's even remotely complicated, then an IDE is the way to go. Time is money and a good IDE can increase your productivity tenfold. Things like code hinting, auto completion, debuggers, and project organization are a must if you want to get anything done rapidly. Sure, you don't NEED it, but there is no point in wasting your time in notepad when there are so many free development tools out there that are amazing. Take a look at Visual Studio Express, Eclipse, or Flash Develop...the list is huge for good IDEs. Other programs that highlight code are nice, but that is only one small part of a full featured IDE. Get to know your IDE and its features and you won't be sorry.

At 8/6/10 03:07 AM, CrownNation wrote: For some reason everyone seems to be very anti-IDE so far. I started] ... [features and you won't be sorry.

Three posts above your :)

At 8/6/10 07:33 PM, DrexDrex wrote: If you want to continue using traditional text editos, lok up for one called TextPad

It has line numbers (good for debugging PHP etc), how many characters have been typed, and other such goodies. It even has a quick list of commonly used HTML tags and the like. It canhave syntax coloring too. But other than that it works largerly like Notepad. You would probably like it.

I've actually started out in textpad. I probably got it from back when I still installed tons of little free apps just to try them out. Textpad quickly got on my nerves though, because it's a trial. Once I looked for an alternative to textpad, I ran in to notepad++ and fell in love. I think that everyone who's used both apps will agree that trying textpad is not worth the hassle.

More on topic: I would find myself horribly limited if using notepad for coding/markup. Syntax highlighting and the various other tools notepad++ has improve workflow so much. You're still typing all the code, but it's just much easier to keep track of the structure.

While do understand you like to feeling of just typing out a program in notepad and compiling it, I think it'd be a better idea to move on to a better editor/IDE if you want to do some more 'serious' coding; bigger projects and such.

While on windows, you'll always see me using notepad++, and in ubuntu, I'm a fan of gedit. They're pretty similar, but notepad++ takes the cake.

Nothing wrong with Notepad coding. It can help you to develop certain skills and force you to learn things that the IDE would take care of for you.

I prefer IDEs because of ease of use, but I won't knock anyone for using Notepad. In fact, they might even deserve a bit of praise.

Notepad++ for Windows, Textmate for OSX.
don't know about Linux.

At 8/1/10 04:13 PM, CaptinChu wrote:

However, if you are actually programming, you need to learn how to use a real IDE. When you work on massive or very complex projects with multiple people, it is imperative that you have tools like a hierarchy viewer, debugger, code generation, etc.

False. Although an Integrated Developer's Environment (IDE) is extremely useful and can expedite the process of large-scale development, it is not technically necessary.

First statement is true. Name one major development company that does not utilize and IDE (or several), I don't think you can find any - unless they are populated largly by amateurs and freelancers. Using an IDE on a team is imperative, as it will make sure you don't slip up on completely retarded glitches like forgetting to add a file to svn/cvs. Also you don't have to waste precious time (and money) on looking up function and object definitions every 10 seconds. For development, it is a very handy tool, and if you don't want use them, you are basically opting into a large timewaste for yourself (and everyone else included in the project). It's as "not technically necessary" for a developer as a hammer is for a carpenter - he can "technically" just use a rock instead

True, Cronoman. I'd certainly want to use an IDE for large projects.

For small projects, text editors can help you learn stuff that IDEs do for you. For some, it might be trivial knowledge, but you never know when it might come in handy.

While I don't use notepad to program, I use a similar if not more basic program ^^ I use Vim in linux, except when in windows I use the old bloodshed Dev-Cpp, but mainly vim & gcc.

Stick with whatever your used to, I see it more beneficial to using vim, I can control every aspect without having code plonked into my program/websites, making them larger for no reason. Another reason I program using shell mainly, is because it puts me more in the programming mood =)

Your not a fool for using notepad. I used notepad for the longest time until I switch to Ubuntu Linux and now I use "Kate", "Gedit" which both highlight key words in a program based on its file extension. I am used to using the command line for everything so i used , and VIM (look it up if you use Windows) to code things. But really, you can use any program that you want to use. It doesn't matter really, its just that it is easier to code with a little help... But because i am so pro command line programming, I can't stand programmes like eclipse and any other program like that. I only tolerated JCreator and that is it.

I code in notepad all the time.

It is not at all foolish... but a hasle to look through.

The only time I don't use notepad is for Java (I use NetBean) and ActionScript (well I think you know what I use :P).

At 8/13/10 04:22 PM, JOHNNY29 wrote: ActionScript (well I think you know what I use :P).

);

Okay, first of all, my programs aren't that large, but even if I had to write something very intensive, you can bet that I wouldn't stray from Notepad.

I've tried some of the more 'advanced' alternatives, but the whole 'I'll close this bracket for you when you open one, indent your lines when needed, and make the entirety of your code a multi-colored mess" thing seems like the lazy way out. You may as well get it to blink for you.

The best way to learn is to do, regardless of what one may think they need to do to learn.

I'll admit, a line count is nice when something gives you an error, but not having one in Notepad only means I can look through my numberless code on my own at faster speeds than people who'd rely on the counter. Of course, that's not the largest, or only benefit of using something simple, but you know what I mean.

At 8/18/10 10:45 PM, Seltzer wrote:

This is a mindset taken on by a lot of rookies.

On a large scale, IDEs are definitely your best bet for productivity and efficiency. But either way, in the long run, it's better to learn how to utilize IDEs for even small projects so you can get a feel for it. There are a lot of skills involved such as project organization and top-down design.

In fact there's really no reason NOT to have code completion or the ability to quickly look up a function. Programming is about solving problems, not how much time you spend writing actual code or memorizing things. Of course, for learning purposes, you may be limited to this but eventually you'll move on to realizing that you're better off adapting. Or stay limited, whatever.

See, the issue is a lot of tutorials on the web are written by misinformed or arrogant people. It's about time you saw the big picture.

Sure, for your 'hello world' program you may not need to type in a lot of commands to compile it.

But just look at the command line output in an IDE for a library or a simple project and you'll be amazed.

At 8/18/10 10:45 PM, Seltzer wrote: I'll admit, a line count is nice when something gives you an error, but not having one in Notepad only means I can look through my numberless code on my own at faster speeds than people who'd rely on the counter. Of course, that's not the largest, or only benefit of using something simple, but you know what I mean.

Ok, I suggest you go download a IDE, familiarize yourself with it, and then in a couple of months, come back and say the same thing. I bet you have changed your opinion by then ;)

My bad for not mentioning that I've only really programmed in Web developer-type languages. Though, some of them are similar enough to a few of the heavier languages I've seen.

I know it's easier and faster to use an IDE, at any rate. What I lose in speed, I gain in understanding. At my level, I like that better.

At 8/19/10 04:51 AM, Seltzer wrote: My bad for not mentioning that I've only really programmed in Web developer-type languages. Though, some of them are similar enough to a few of the heavier languages I've seen.

I'm guessing PHP? Try Eclipse
Or take a look at this list of "7 great IDE's for PHP" (I only have experience with Eclipse and Zend Studio, so I can't really comment on it)
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/openso urce/library/os-php-ide/index.html

In any other web-language (except perl) it would be crazy not to use an IDE, like JSP or ASP.NET

I know it's easier and faster to use an IDE, at any rate. What I lose in speed, I gain in understanding. At my level, I like that better.

I guarantee, when you start using an IDE, you'll never go back. It basically just frees you from having to deal with tedious tasks, and focus on development. With such a primitive language like PHP, there's virtually nothing to "understand" anyway ;)

I guarantee, when you start using an IDE, you'll never go back. It basically just frees you from having to deal with tedious tasks, and focus on development. With such a primitive language like PHP, there's virtually nothing to "understand" anyway ;)

How is PHP primitive? Even though PHP may be seen as an easier language and unorganized, it is far from Assembly (pretty primitive I think). But since its a scripting language I don't see how it can be that primitive, especially since you don't have to worry much about memory locations or variable types. I'm not sure what a primitive language even means, if you could elaborate.

I prefer a more full featured text editor then an IDE for scripting languages, like gedit. Now when it comes to writing some code that will be compiled, I normally like something that can automate much of the build process and include some nice tools for debugging also but with a scripting language this is not necessary.