Frame by frame animation.

[BobSeibold]

Sup.

I'm such a big fan of frame by frame animation, I think it gives the whole animation more life if you know what I mean.

So I made this thread so we can discuss how we do when we animate frame by frame. For example, do you create two layers, then draw the character for instance, and then use the other layer to write the character in the next frame. By doing this you always have a foundation. I'm doing a project atm (check my blog if you want to see how it looks right now), and I'm in big need of help with frame by frame animation, I need tips and everything to make it much easier!

PLEASE DISCUSS FRAME BY FRAME ANIMATION, GO!

[Shmossy]

Depends how serious I am with the animation.
For an important thing like a character in a game, I make a new layer for each body part. This helps if I decide I'm going to tween one or two body parts, if FbF animation isn't really necessary. Although, that's outside the subject of this thread.

For casual practice, though, I do mostly everything on one layer, except maybe one or two important things being on seperate layers.

In terms of actually animating the thing, I just make another keyframe with onion skin on, and redraw it all, perhaps following a stick figure guideline.

[BobSeibold]

At 6/28/10 08:05 AM, Shmossy wrote:
onion skin

Hm, what exactly is that? I've never heard or used it i think.

[Shmossy]

At 6/28/10 08:30 AM, BobSeibold wrote:

At 6/28/10 08:05 AM, Shmossy wrote:
onion skin

Hm, what exactly is that? I've never heard or used it i think.

Really? It's a button you can click. It makes the previous frames appear transparent, so you can easily replicate the drawing.
You mentioned using another layer as a "base". With onion skin on, you don't need to do that, as you can see what was on the previous frames.

It's one of the most important tools for a FbF animator!
I took a screenshot for you.

[BobSeibold]

At 6/28/10 09:17 AM, Shmossy wrote:

At 6/28/10 08:30 AM, BobSeibold wrote:

At 6/28/10 08:05 AM, Shmossy wrote:
onion skin

Hm, what exactly is that? I've never heard or used it i think.

Really? It's a button you can click. It makes the previous frames appear transparent, so you can easily replicate the drawing.
You mentioned using another layer as a "base". With onion skin on, you don't need to do that, as you can see what was on the previous frames.

It's one of the most important tools for a FbF animator!
I took a screenshot for you.

Fucking thanks. It was pretty much things like this i wanted to learn about when i created this thread. I'll try to do some later today. This will really help.

Anymore tips n' trix?

[Shmossy]

At 6/28/10 09:29 AM, BobSeibold wrote: Fucking thanks. It was pretty much things like this i wanted to learn about when i created this thread. I'll try to do some later today. This will really help.

Anymore tips n' trix?

Hehe, you're welcome.
Well, if you want to be a good animator, you should become a good artist outside of Flash.
Sketching objects and people in your spare time, reading tutorials, learning the anatomy of a human, and things like that all help.
I don't think there are any more tips or tricks - lots and lots of practice really helps though.

[Oolaph]

Also, on top of what Shmossy said, do you have a pen tablet? They are insanely useful and give you avery realistic and better feel while animting or drawing in general. Also remember to play back and save frequently, tweak little things that don't seem quite right and use online videos or talk into a mirror as references to human and facial movement.

[BobSeibold]

At 6/28/10 11:41 AM, Shmossy wrote: Well, if you want to be a good animator, you should become a good artist outside of Flash.

Yeah, I'm not extremely good at drawing etc, but I personally think I'm way over avarage. Pretty much watching tuts and drawing random shit every day. It's jsut that I've hit a big fucking brick the last day when it comes to frame by frame animation. Usually when people animate with that style it looks way better than tweening, but for me it's the other way around. I've tried for hours today, and i can't seem to get hang of it.

[BobSeibold]

At 6/28/10 02:15 PM, Oolaph wrote: do you have a pen tablet?

Yeah got one a couple of months ago, still training with it. I pretty much want to do everything with it so i can navigate quick and draw clean with it :)

Thanks for all tips and answers so far!

[Chimbley]

here is my fbf animation process

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/24b0 be2db50b5f2fca6194f11c3ea8d5

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/1410 b9465b4e5b70c06d7a9536f0e094

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/da10 cf1bef0bd2161aeeadf9bc56415c

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/9615 a5483c3aa04545b2a03fa5fa2d5f

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/f896 0d4684e5151aa73bc26d3056b593

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/3c7e 3ae24c5f37ec3ae06cfc16db99ef

[Chimbley]

my bad

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/24b0 be2db50b5f2fca6194f11c3ea8d5

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/1410 b9465b4e5b70c06d7a9536f0e094

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/da10 cf1bef0bd2161aeeadf9bc56415c

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/9615 a5483c3aa04545b2a03fa5fa2d5f

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/f896 0d4684e5151aa73bc26d3056b593

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/3c7e 3ae24c5f37ec3ae06cfc16db99ef

[poninja]

I still use the old flash 8, I download a 30 day trial of CS5 and i felt uncomfortable

[BobSeibold]

At 6/28/10 06:41 PM, Chimbley wrote: my bad

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/24b0 be2db50b5f2fca6194f11c3ea8d5

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/1410 b9465b4e5b70c06d7a9536f0e094

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/da10 cf1bef0bd2161aeeadf9bc56415c

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/9615 a5483c3aa04545b2a03fa5fa2d5f

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/f896 0d4684e5151aa73bc26d3056b593

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/3c7e 3ae24c5f37ec3ae06cfc16db99ef

Looks nice in the end :) How long did it take to make all the stages etc?
And if you ask me one or two more framse would help the animation to get a better flow, but really nice work.

[BobSeibold]

At 6/29/10 02:46 AM, poninja wrote: I still use the old flash 8, I download a 30 day trial of CS5 and i felt uncomfortable

Yeah same here, but with CS4, but since it's a newer version i figured it would be better so I just kept goin with it. Don't really kno what the difference between the two are when it comes to frame by frame animation?

[ATICE]

At 6/29/10 04:55 AM, BobSeibold wrote:

At 6/29/10 02:46 AM, poninja wrote: I still use the old flash 8, I download a 30 day trial of CS5 and i felt uncomfortable

Yeah same here, but with CS4, but since it's a newer version i figured it would be better so I just kept goin with it. Don't really kno what the difference between the two are when it comes to frame by frame animation?

I'd like to think of CS3 as Xp, CS4 as Vista, and CS5 as 7.. and I gotta say.. CS5 is so much better than CS5.. CS4 hides A LOT OF STUFF that is necessary.

[BobSeibold]

At 6/29/10 03:29 PM, ATICE wrote: I'd like to think of CS3 as Xp, CS4 as Vista, and CS5 as 7.. and I gotta say.. CS5 is so much better than CS5.. CS4 hides A LOT OF STUFF that is necessary.

Yeah, I'm seriously thinking about going over to CS5 now, but I wanna kno the best pros before. So I don't go through to much trouble for almost no change at all. Since my next movie is pretty much gonna be all frame by frame i want to know the biggest pros with frame by frame animation with CS5, if there's any.

[SenorLlama]

Another thing that 2d animators do that's helped me a lot is doing a rough previz of your animation. Here is one that I had to do recently.

Closet Previz

Doing this allows you to focus on things like timing, spacing, and mechanics without being distracted by how the character looks, or the colors. The character can be even be as simple as stick figures.

DRG Prviz

You don't need to animate every frame, so long as you get the general idea of what your animation looks like. Then when you're all done, you can animate on top of your rough previz on new layers.

Plus, if it turns out you don't like something. It's a lot easier to redraw stick figures then it is to redraw layers of detailed characters, colors, and shadow.

[KidneyThief]

Frame by frame takes a lot of patience if you are working in detail. I'm surprised you didn't know about the onion skin feature, it's a crazy important tool, especially when animating frame by frame. There are two styles you could choose to animate by. Generally when I work in Flash I just animate one frame after the other. When I'm working in Maya on 3D models however I animate by moving to frames further in the time line and then refining the animation in between. This can be applied in Flash much the same way. Draw key poses. Say if you were animating a simple karate chop, at frame 1 you would draw the character with a raised hand, then you would jump ahead to say frame 20 (Depending on the frame rate you are working at) and draw the second key pose of the character smashing the desired target. Once you have your key poses you fill in everything in between.

[BobSeibold]

Thanks for all the tips, they're really helping me out. I just put up my latest flash movie on my blog (if you wanna check it out), there's some frame by frame aniamtion in it.

Here is a youtube link for it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5SZhoMD_
Fo

[Supman914]

When I'm working in Maya on 3D models however I animate by moving to frames further in the time line and then refining the animation in between. This can be applied in Flash much the same way. Draw key poses. Say if you were animating a simple karate chop, at frame 1 you would draw the character with a raised hand, then you would jump ahead to say frame 20 (Depending on the frame rate you are working at) and draw the second key pose of the character smashing the desired target. Once you have your key poses you fill in everything in between.

Damn if I master flash 8 I would animate great in this.

[BobSeibold]

At 6/30/10 08:53 PM, Supman914 wrote: When I'm working in Maya on 3D models however I animate by moving to frames further in the time line and then refining the animation in between. This can be applied in Flash much the same way. Draw key poses. Say if you were animating a simple karate chop, at frame 1 you would draw the character with a raised hand, then you would jump ahead to say frame 20 (Depending on the frame rate you are working at) and draw the second key pose of the character smashing the desired target. Once you have your key poses you fill in everything in between.

Damn if I master flash 8 I would animate great in this.

That's a great technique. I'm sure as hell gonna try that next time i animate something serious with the frame by frame method.

Another downside by frame by frame animation for me though, is that i get boored pretty easily, which leads to less details the more framse I do. But I think that's just something I'll have to get over.

[BobSeibold]

At 6/30/10 02:08 PM, BobSeibold wrote: Thanks for all the tips, they're really helping me out. I just put up my latest flash movie on my blog (if you wanna check it out), there's some frame by frame aniamtion in it.

Here is a youtube link for it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5SZhoMD_
Fo

It's up on newgrounds now aswell.

[Marsume]

At 6/30/10 08:53 PM, Supman914 wrote: Once you have your key poses you fill in everything in between.

That's a process called "Pose-to-Pose" animation.
You draw the keys, the fill in the inbetweens with what are called 'Inbetweens". CRAZY NAME I KNOW

There there is "Straight Ahead" animation. It's exactly what it sounds like. Do frame 1, frame 2, frame 3. Etc

With pose to pose, you lose some fluidity, and it sometimes seems formulated, and mechanical. Then with Straight ahead, you can loose your proportions quickly, and it sometimes seems to random and rubbery.

Best to work with a mix of the two, you're most likely to get the best result this way. (Unless you're animating something mechanical, or random and rubbery...i guess?)

[BobSeibold]

At 7/2/10 11:10 PM, Marsume wrote: At 6/30/10 08:53 PM, Supman914 wrote: Once you have your key poses you fill in everything in between.

That's a process called "Pose-to-Pose" animation.
You draw the keys, the fill in the inbetweens with what are called 'Inbetweens". CRAZY NAME I KNOW

There there is "Straight Ahead" animation. It's exactly what it sounds like. Do frame 1, frame 2, frame 3. Etc

With pose to pose, you lose some fluidity, and it sometimes seems formulated, and mechanical. Then with Straight ahead, you can loose your proportions quickly, and it sometimes seems to random and rubbery.

Nice information, thanks!

I've started my new project now, I'm pretty much just writing the "story" in the movie atm. But this project is supposed to be mostly done by FBF animation. So I've got one quetion:

When I draw a character by FBF animation, should I still make symbols for every body part and FBF animate all the different bodyparts, or should I just make the whole character as one symbol. I guess it's easier to draw the whole character as one symbol when you're animating him walking, and for example animating different body parts when the character is talking?

I need more pointers here : D

[sinuyashax2]

U can put a FBF in a symbol and use it over again like a spin kick for example just turn the first frame into a symbol go into that symbol start animating in that symbol timeline.Then after you are finish exit out of the symbol u can now tween the symbol on the regular timeline.It cool because i have this character doing a spin kick and if i want to i can now have him move across the screen with the spin kick by tweening or turn the symbol in the other direction and having him facing the other direction without doing the FBF again. This is great for making a moves library for your character like a walk,and run cycle for example.Best part u can import symbol from other flash file into new flash file making new animation with old character quicker and easier

[Cope2K]

OK man I'm gonna tell you the secret to being an AWESOME animator trust me this will change the way you animate forever. OK the book that EVERY animator should read, and I do mean EVERY SINGLE animator, is " The Animator's Survival Kit" If you want to be AWESOME like me (lol) READ THIS!!! I'm dead serious this WILL make you a dope animator.
CONCLUSION! read this book, learn it, PRACTICE it, and you will be better it's that simple you WILL be better. BTW this book doesn't talk about flash/tweening/ non of that nonsense it's a pure animating book man it's GOLD read the dang thing and apply it to flash like I did and your good to go. I've read this thing 2+ times This book is so good they made it into a 16 part DVD set, you KNOW it's good when they make it into a 16 freakin part set! AND as for those trick there aren't none sorry wish there were but alas...there aren't any practice is key so keep at it you won't become pro in a matter of months (assuming you've been going at it for this long since you got you tablet and what not...)

CHECK IT...

PS.: the way you choose to animate is very important ei. for games reusing movieclips/graphics/ect. keeps the file size low on the other hand if you draw every frame it make the file huge so reusing stuff keeps the file lightweight which helps SO much I learned that the hard way and had to redo a bunch of character animations for my upcoming game (if your interested read about it on my page I won't hijack this thread ;D ) GOOD LUCK! need anymore help just ask

PEACE!
-Cope2K

[sinuyashax2]

Hell yes i got the hard cover and the pdf the book is sick

[BobSeibold]

Nice tips, yeah I'm definitely gonna check that book out, in fact I've already started to look it through.

[sinuyashax2]

At 7/7/10 06:42 AM, BobSeibold wrote: Nice tips, yeah I'm definitely gonna check that book out, in fact I've already started to look it through.

I will see if i can put the pdf in newgrounds dump page

[ganuganu]

i love frame by frame animation the only thing is its time consuming....watch my frame by frame animation.....

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