Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

This explains the situation at the perfection

http://www.pjtv.com/

At 6/6/11 12:34 AM, satanbrain wrote:

At 6/5/11 06:56 PM, JJdaDJ wrote: "We want to prove to the whole world who is using violence.

Terrorists.

And Israel isn't? Look at what they do, I mean, fire rockets back, but not at a school.

No. We are trained on methods like (those of) Ghandi, like Martin Luther King, Mandela.

Only like ghandi, who was antisemitic racist.

He is talking about the methods of Ghandi (using civil disobedience, non-violence) to bring about reforms.

We believe in that and we are going to stay using our nonviolent methods until the world sees who is the real oppressor," said Sari (Arab)

You mean, until the syrians forget that asad is butchering them.

The Syrian protesters were paid by Asad, I read the news I'm not stupid. But the others were because they want their homeland back.

This just about sums up whats going on, if hamas were out of power, i would have full support of Palestine.

At 6/6/11 07:41 PM, JJdaDJ wrote: And Israel isn't? Look at what they do, I mean, fire rockets back, but not at a school.

Israel is defending itself, shooting terrorists is not the same as shooting civilians.

He is talking about the methods of Ghandi (using civil disobedience, non-violence) to bring about reforms.

Which will rise an antisemitic reign?

The Syrian protesters were paid by Asad, I read the news I'm not stupid. But the others were because they want their homeland back.

What israel has to do with their homeland? These protesters' homeland is not here.

At 6/5/11 04:59 PM, Warforger wrote:

Of course you did. I asked how the IDF, with its 180,000 personnel, could prevent any leaks to the media through whistleblowers about it's allegedly barbaric practices. You responded by saying the UN and Palestinians get upset. That doesn't answer my question.

Erm, I'm saying there's quite possibly something going on....

Possibly, but unlikely, because the premise that the huge majority of IDF personnel would stay quiet about it is absurd.

At 5/30/11 09:51 AM, adrshepard wrote:

You mean at best, I'm wondering though if that was the case why do Pro-Israeli's tend to need to try to make her out as a terrorist?

I don't think she was a terrorist. A fool, but not a terrorist.
Probably they are overreacting to portrayals that she was some fearless martyr.

Oh whoops, my bad. I thougtht I saw a video of them in it but turned out to be in West Bank.

"Whoops, my bad" doesn't cover it. I can't imagine how anyone knowledgable about the situation in Gaza could think it was literally occupied, especially given that the most recent conflict erupted from a border incursion.

A weapons cache or communications center would be two examples.

Um. What? Ok "hey guys move out of that place where your weapons cache is because we're going to blow it up" what's stopping them from like moving out?

The people inside could escape, but theyd have to leave most of their equipment to be destroyed.

While YOU may not think that the grievances die after a new generation, the PEOPLE IN CANAAN do and it DOES happen. THIS is simple fact.

No, it isn't. As people, the Serbs and Palestinians are no different than any other group, and by no means do they have the greatest claim to being "wronged." I don't know about daily life in the Balkans, but I can tell you that almost every government in the Middle East has actively encouraged hostility towards Israel, no matter how mindless it may be, primarily because it's a distraction from their own oppressive regimes. This rage and anguish is almost entirely artificial. The only legitimate grievances are those coming from people who allegedly suffer from Israeli treatment now. The events of 1948 are long finished. Anyone who cites the date as a reason for his anger is either natually hateful or is being manipulated.

No. You don't seem to understand. The only reason Israel looks good is because it only goes to war when the war is inevitable, and then attacks first because if Israel loses any of its own land it's going to cost them greatly.

By that reasoning, there's no such thing as a "strong" country, because it can't take on everyone else at once, and no country actively seeks permanent warfare. History is full of instances where leaders chose their battles carefully, then struck quickly and effectively. That does not make them militarily "weak."

On top of this the previous war with Egypt the Yom Kippur war ended in a stalemate with Egyptian forces on the Israeli bank and Israeli forces on the Egyptian bank with Egypt going at it solo, so they're learning and Israel won't be able to fight them off forever.

Christ, even a 5 minute look at Wikipedia shows how far off you are. The Israelis were in the midst of encircling and destroying Egypt's third army, while simultaneously holding territorial gains in Syria. The combined Arab forces outnumbered the Israelis over a factor of two, and they suffered substantially higher casualties.
But no, that doesn't mean they know how to fight a war or anything...That would conflict with your childish animosity against Israel.

AGAIN! it wasn't in Zionist claims and it was a strategic move more then any other.

So those plans to deposit 200,000 settlers into Yamit (according to wikipedia) in Sinai were what, just clerical errors?

Not Zionist, but to settle the land to surround Gaza with Israeli's. Again a strategic move.

A strategy which would allow...what, settlement in Gaza on a far lesser scale? The same Gaza which Israel eventually surrendered after decades of gradually abandoning control over?

......So? They have a museum in Israel, let's see an Israeli post on it

"An Israeli?" Well, shit, how can anyone disagree with your conclusions about Israeli society when confronted with a poorly translated blurb from an online-only site unaffiliated with any Jewish political organization or official government agency?

At 6/6/11 11:39 PM, satanbrain wrote:

At 6/6/11 07:41 PM, JJdaDJ wrote: And Israel isn't? Look at what they do, I mean, fire rockets back, but not at a school.

Israel is defending itself, shooting terrorists is not the same as shooting civilians.

So every Palestinian is a terrorist? Every Arab is a terrorist?

He is talking about the methods of Ghandi (using civil disobedience, non-violence) to bring about reforms.

Which will rise an antisemitic reign?

Everyone claims the Jews are hated, but what, you do not think the Jews hated the Arabs and Hindus?

The Syrian protesters were paid by Asad, I read the news I'm not stupid. But the others were because they want their homeland back.

What Israel has to do with their homeland? These protesters' homeland is not here.

Dude, do you know any history? The Palestinians were displaced in wars with Israel, and have had children, who were protesting. Millions taken away from their homeland. And what they have left; Gaza is being bombarded, and in West bank, Israel is building on Palestinian lands, pretty much causing peace talks to have no chance.

And you mentioned "Antisemitic". That means to show hatred towards the Semitic people, which include both Jews and Arabs, and other ancient people from Southwestern Asia.

At 6/7/11 04:25 PM, adrshepard wrote:

At 6/5/11 04:59 PM, Warforger wrote:

Possibly, but unlikely, because the premise that the huge majority of IDF personnel would stay quiet about it is absurd.

Not saying ALL are, SOME are, same with all militaries.

"Whoops, my bad" doesn't cover it. I can't imagine how anyone knowledgable about the situation in Gaza could think it was literally occupied, especially given that the most recent conflict erupted from a border incursion.

Typical play on the human mind's ability to recognize patterns without actually having any real evidence to prove it. I had some misconception, that doesn't fucking mean I don't have a clue where Israel is.

The people inside could escape, but theyd have to leave most of their equipment to be destroyed.

What's stopping them from moving the equipment? What's stopping them from getting more weapons?

No, it isn't. As people, the Serbs and Palestinians are no different than any other group, and by no means do they have the greatest claim to being "wronged." I don't know about daily life in the Balkans, but I can tell you that almost every government in the Middle East has actively encouraged hostility towards Israel, no matter how mindless it may be, primarily because it's a distraction from their own oppressive regimes. This rage and anguish is almost entirely artificial. The only legitimate grievances are those coming from people who allegedly suffer from Israeli treatment now. The events of 1948 are long finished. Anyone who cites the date as a reason for his anger is either natually hateful or is being manipulated.

Actually it's more brought on by the people, since the Palestinians are also Arabs so they feel for them. The reason it's brought on by the people is because while governments like Jordan and pre-protests Egypt are friendly to Israel, the people often times want to be hostile towards Israel.

But anyway, what I'm saying is that people are still mad about what went on in 1948, just like people are still mad about the Holocaust, they still are and they will be until some type of solution is reached, to point to the Serbs in Bosnia, one of their reasons for ethnic cleansing and capturing land that didn't have Serb majorities is because before WWII they did, during WWII the Croatian puppet government slaughtered much of them having control of Bosnia after all, this is the same in Canaan, the Jews were still sad about the Diaspora by the Romans, hence Zionism, there's no other reason for Zionism to go into Israel. Palestinians want to just resettle the land again, just like it had been for centuries........You do see that the entire conflict is just people butthurt that they were forced off their land a long time ago right?

By that reasoning, there's no such thing as a "strong" country, because it can't take on everyone else at once, and no country actively seeks permanent warfare. History is full of instances where leaders chose their battles carefully, then struck quickly and effectively. That does not make them militarily "weak."

Not exactly, you see when there was a Prussia-Austria war, Prussia just steamrolled the Austrians in their northern European territories, and they got to the capital of Austria, but they did not just keep it like that and take all of Austria because they weren't able too and went into negotiations rather then being embarrassed in front of all of Europe.

This is what I'm saying, Israel can't go to war over every dispute it has and it only goes to war when it has no other choice, that's why it holds territories of foreign countries because it can use them as barganing chips for peace, if it could end hostilities instead of going to war, since only a retard wants to keep going to war over and over again, then it will.

Christ, even a 5 minute look at Wikipedia shows how far off you are. The Israelis were in the midst of encircling and destroying Egypt's third army, while simultaneously holding territorial gains in Syria. The combined Arab forces outnumbered the Israelis over a factor of two, and they suffered substantially higher casualties.

Ok here is a map of their defeat of Egypt's third army

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yom_Ki ppur_War_map-2.png

That's not far off at all......Another useful thing to look at is "Results" when you look at these articles

"Political and strategic gains for Egypt and Israel"

Also here is what it says for long term

"In Israel, despite impressive operational and tactical achievements on the battlefield, the war effectively ended its sense of invincibility and complacency. The war also challenged many American assumptions; the United States initiated new efforts at mediation and peacemaking. These changes paved the way for the subsequent peace process. The Camp David Accords that followed led to the return of the Sinai to Egypt and normalized relations-the first peaceful recognition of Israel by an Arab country. Egypt continued its drift away from the Soviet Union and left the Soviet sphere of influence entirely."

Gee. That shows how far off I am. Again, the war showed the turning point for Israel that it wasn't the greatest ever and that the Arabs were learning.

But no, that doesn't mean they know how to fight a war or anything...That would conflict with your childish animosity against Israel.

So you're not really here to actually argue anything at all? Just to try to make yourself feel superior? Oh whoops looks like I did what you do all the time instead of actually arguing.

I don't have an animosity against Israel (terrible choice of words anyway), I just find something iffy about a country that can force people off their land for Nationalist reasons and no one calls it ethnic cleansing, then other countries like Republika Spsrka does it and it is.....

I just believe that they should throw their nationalist theories in the trash, join together, form one country two ethnic groups, forgive each other for the past and just be done with it. But no nothing I or you say will have any real effect on what will happen in the land.

A strategy which would allow...what, settlement in Gaza on a far lesser scale? The same Gaza which Israel eventually surrendered after decades of gradually abandoning control over?

Well first off, it wasn't mass settlement of Sinai, it was a simple border town, secondly yes, if you gave up Sinai the Egyptians have access to Gaza.

......So? They have a museum in Israel, let's see an Israeli post on it

"An Israeli?" Well, shit, how can anyone disagree with your conclusions about Israeli society when confronted with a poorly translated blurb from an online-only site unaffiliated with any Jewish political organization or official government agency?

Other then the museum?

At 6/8/11 04:26 PM, Warforger wrote:

Possibly, but unlikely, because the premise that the huge majority of IDF personnel would stay quiet about it is absurd.

Not saying ALL are, SOME are, same with all militaries.

SOME are what? It only takes a handful of people to destroy a coverup. Where is the damning testimony? Where are the whistleblowers? Where is the proof behind your accusations regarding Israeli tactics? That's what I'm looking for.

Typical play on the human mind's ability to recognize patterns without actually having any real evidence to prove it. I had some misconception, that doesn't fucking mean I don't have a clue where Israel is.

Not at all. Gaza is entirely different than the West Bank in nearly every way. This isn't even something that can be categorized as a minor screw up. You believed that there was an ongoing occupation of Gaza with regular "Israeli ground patrols." Indefensible.

What's stopping them from moving the equipment? What's stopping them from getting more weapons?

Maybe because they are heavy and it takes more than a few minutes to move tons of ammunition and supplies?

No, it isn't. As people, the Serbs and Palestinians are no different than any other group, and by no means do they have the greatest claim to being "wronged." I don't know about daily life in the Balkans, but I can tell you that almost every government in the Middle East has actively encouraged hostility towards Israel, no matter how mindless it may be, primarily because it's a distraction from their own oppressive regimes. This rage and anguish is almost entirely artificial. The only legitimate grievances are those coming from people who allegedly suffer from Israeli treatment now. The events of 1948 are long finished. Anyone who cites the date as a reason for his anger is either natually hateful or is being manipulated.

Actually it's more brought on by the people, since the Palestinians are also Arabs so they feel for them. The reason it's brought on by the people is because while governments like Jordan and pre-protests Egypt are friendly to Israel, the people often times want to be hostile towards Israel.

Right, which is why the arab countries freely welcome Palestinian immigrants to their country to settle down and start new lives as citizens. Then they turn around and condemn the Israelis for allegedly forcing the Palestinians to live under the same restrictions that they themselves placed on Palestinian refugees in their territory.

But anyway, what I'm saying is that people are still mad about what went on in 1948, just like people are still mad about the Holocaust,

Who? No one blames Germany for the holocaust anymore. Certain jews are just paranoid, and I'm sure it's the basis for a good deal of Zionist sentiment in Israel, not that I can really blame them, since their history as vicims extends thousands of years.

Palestinians want to just resettle the land again, just like it had been for centuries........You do see that the entire conflict is just people butthurt that they were forced off their land a long time ago right?

That makes sense for a while, until the people who actually have claim to being wronged are long dead and buried. Doesn't it strike you as a bit absurd how someone would be willing to blow himself up over land which he never even had, targeting people who at most were children when this "injustice" took place? That's not a normal reaction. The issues in the West Bank continue, but the original problems of 1948 are nearly dead. Arguing for a "right of return", among other things, for people who never actually lived there is just absurd.

This is what I'm saying, Israel can't go to war over every dispute it has and it only goes to war when it has no other choice, that's why it holds territories of foreign countries because it can use them as barganing chips for peace, if it could end hostilities instead of going to war, since only a retard wants to keep going to war over and over again, then it will.

That can be said of every country. Your original point was that Israel isn't powerful. You haven't pointed out anything about Israel that couldn't be said about generally powerful nations.

Ok here is a map of their defeat of Egypt's third army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yom_Ki ppur_War_map-2.png

Which shows teeny bits of land that probably could have been easily recovered given the state of Egypt's forces at the time.

That's not far off at all......Another useful thing to look at is "Results" when you look at these articles
"In Israel, despite impressive operational and tactical achievements on the battlefield, the war effectively ended its sense of invincibility and complacency.

Yeah, because it didn't win in 6 days. It got caught off-guard and still made gains in a matter of weeks.

Gee. That shows how far off I am. Again, the war showed the turning point for Israel that it wasn't the greatest ever and that the Arabs were learning.

This is growing into a pointless sematic argument. I never said Israel was invincible, and now you're going to try to transform your earlier remarks that "Israel isn't very strong militarily" to "Israel's victories weren't always easy." You'll probably omit the bizarre tangent of "Israel isn't strong because it couldn't fight everyone at once and because it prefers diplomacy to costly military action.

A strategy which would allow...what, settlement in Gaza on a far lesser scale? The same Gaza which Israel eventually surrendered after decades of gradually abandoning control over?

Well first off, it wasn't mass settlement of Sinai, it was a simple border town, secondly yes, if you gave up Sinai the Egyptians have access to Gaza.

There were 7000 people living in Sinai when it the settlements were dismantled. Not a lot given the area, but still many. It would help if you could describe what you meant by these territories being part of a purely strategic move. If they only ever acquired them to trade them back later, why allow people to settle there?

"An Israeli?" Well, shit, how can anyone disagree with your conclusions about Israeli society when confronted with a poorly translated blurb from an online-only site unaffiliated with any Jewish political organization or official government agency?

Other then the museum?

The website isn't affiliated with the museum. There is a museum, but that in itself doesn't say much. Is it explicitly celebratory of Irgun terrorist attacks? If it is, and the Israeli government funds it, then you may have a point. If it's a private museum, then you can't use it to describe the sentiments of the Israelis as a whole.

At 6/8/11 03:05 PM, JJdaDJ wrote: So every Palestinian is a terrorist? Every Arab is a terrorist?

Every "peace" protester that attacked IDF soldiers, before they shot him, and tried to tear off the fence. If there were real peacful protesters they shouldn't come with the violent ones.

Everyone claims the Jews are hated, but what, you do not think the Jews hated the Arabs and Hindus?

Hamas admitted his will to kill all the jews in the world. Hamas is currently allied to fatah.

Dude, do you know any history? The Palestinians were displaced in wars with Israel,

They ran away, it is not the same thing.

and have had children, who were protesting.

So homeland is not the place where you were born. We agree on that.

Millions taken away from their homeland. And what they have left;

They chose to abandon their property. Besides, their property will be return when the property if jews who fled from arab countried will be returned. It is only fair.

Gaza is being bombarded,

Gazan terrorists' bases are bombarded.

and in West bank, Israel is building on Palestinian lands, pretty much causing peace talks to have no chance.

Why can't we build in our own land?

And you mentioned "Antisemitic". That means to show hatred towards the Semitic people, which include both Jews and Arabs, and other ancient people from Southwestern Asia.

And both people belong to the semitic race, i know.

Map

Your map lack the loss of jewish lands from Judea kingdom and Hasmonean kingdom periods.

At 6/8/11 03:05 PM, JJdaDJ wrote:

Palestinian land loss graph

Before then there was no specific country of Palestine. You can't truly say that the land in green was completely Palestinian. Jews and Muslims lived together beforehand, especially in Jerusalem. For decades (since the 1800s) Jews were a majority of the population in Jerusalem. I don't see that represented in your map.

Also keep in mind the Negev Desert. Nobody but a few nomadic Bedouins lived there. So the land that Israel was promised there by the UN hardly had any people. It was a barren desert. Really, just about nobody lived there yet according to the map it is all Palestinian land. That only serves to exaggerate the amount of lived-upon land that was lost.

Last, keep in mind how in the map Israel is completely white. That's a downright lie if you say there are no Palestinians in Israel. I've been there. I've seen them. That simple green/white map displays absolute segregation that does not exist in the Middle East.

I'd also like to add to the post with the Palestinian land loss map.
The UN Partition plan did not involve resettling Jews/Arabs or kicking people out of their land. When the UN Partition plan took effect, the Palestinians were the ones to invade the new state of Israel. The conquest of parts of Palestine (a state that essentially barely existed) was not the result of a bunch of land-grabbing Jews, but an offensive attack after being invaded.

The Six-Day War is also another example of that. Israel did attack first but they were provoked. Nasser, the leader of Egypt, kicked out UN weapons inspectors, militarized the Sinai, signed an agreement with Syria, and put Egyptian troops in the West Bank and Gaza, all while proclaiming that he would destroy Israel. And then he violated a peace agreement and blocked off the Tiran. All the while the Arab leaders proclaimed that they would destroy Israel and push the Jews into the sea.

Egypt and Jordan are just as much to blame for the loss of UN-designated Palestinian land. Do you know why Palestine ceased to exist after 1949? Not because of Israel. Egypt annexed the Gaza Strip and Jordan annexed the West Bank. Both regarded those pieces of land as integral parts of their respective countries. Yet there was no intifada in either of these countries. In fact, Jordan is made up of mostly Palestinians. Why isn't Jordan seen as the Palestinian state?

If anything, Israel actually liberated the Palestinians, if you don't consider Palestinians to be Egyptian or Jordanian. Until 1967 the West Bank and Gaza were both provinces of another country and not their own. Israel eventually withdrew from Gaza and parts of the West Bank.

At 6/8/11 11:36 PM, satanbrain wrote:

At 6/8/11 03:05 PM, JJdaDJ wrote: So every Palestinian is a terrorist? Every Arab is a terrorist?

Every "peace" protester that attacked IDF soldiers, before they shot him, and tried to tear off the fence. If there were real peacful protesters they shouldn't come with the violent ones.

I didn't say all the protesters were peaceful. You still did not answer my question. Every Arab is a terrorist?

Everyone claims the Jews are hated, but what, you do not think the Jews hated the Arabs and Hindus?

Hamas admitted his will to kill all the jews in the world. Hamas is currently allied to fatah.

I know that. I am 100% against the Hamas, but these protesters were Palestinian civilians, not Hamas or Fatah.

Dude, do you know any history? The Palestinians were displaced in wars with Israel,

They ran away, it is not the same thing.

and have had children, who were protesting.

So homeland is not the place where you were born. We agree on that.

Now, when there is a war and the group running the country forces you out, or violence becomes so bad you need to leave, how is it your fault? And the children were not born there, but their parents were, and had to leave because of certain circumstances. Lets say English people had to leave England because Germany had destroyed everything, and hated the English very badly (during WW2, as an example, I know this never happened). The ousted English had children, and the children do not have a right to return? How does that make sense?

Millions taken away from their homeland. And what they have left;

They chose to abandon their property. Besides, their property will be return when the property if jews who fled from arab countried will be returned. It is only fair.

1) "Countried" is not a word. 2) I don't think those chose to leave either, if you read my earlier response.

Gaza is being bombarded,

Gazan terrorists' bases are bombarded.

and in West bank, Israel is building on Palestinian lands, pretty much causing peace talks to have no chance.

Why can't we build in our own land?

What? Israel is being a terrorist country, just continuing to expand their land.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Settle ments2006.jpg

How is it Israel's land?

I'd like to wish this thread a happy birthday. It's one year old!

At 6/9/11 06:41 PM, JJdaDJ wrote: I didn't say all the protesters were peaceful. You still did not answer my question. Every Arab is a terrorist?

No.

I know that. I am 100% against the Hamas, but these protesters were Palestinian civilians, not Hamas or Fatah.

They were only funded by asad and tried to infilitrate israel. Nothing to do with terrorism.

Now, when there is a war and the group running the country forces you out, or violence becomes so bad you need to leave, how is it your fault?

It's not. But when nothing happens to you and you chose to ran away because you think something is going to happen to you it's your fault.

And the children were not born there, but their parents were, and had to leave because of certain circumstances.

That's right, but that doesn't make the land theirs. The jews were exiled from this land and the jews have never given it up. The palestinans never owned israel.

What? Israel is being a terrorist country, just continuing to expand their land.

Building in your own land is not expansion.

How is it Israel's land?

How is it palestinian? Becuase once ottomans and muslims (not even palestinian-ruled) occupied it?

At 6/9/11 11:50 PM, satanbrain wrote: How is it palestinian? Becuase once ottomans and muslims (not even palestinian-ruled) occupied it?

Do you honestly believe this crap? How many times do we have to explain this to you? First off the Palestinians have Greek DNA, there was an ancient group in Canaan that was a fierce enemy to the Jews the Phillistines, they were Greeks from the Aegean, put two and two together, so when the majority of Jews were gone they mixed with the Arabs and became the Palestinians, therefore they were on the land as long as you were. On top of this, the Jews originate from Ur a city in Mesopotamia, hence why their DNA isn't that different from Arabic DNA because they're the same people for the most part aside from racial mixing, this makes the Jews the first Arabic invaders of the land. Ok ok that's a bit over the top, it makes them the first settlers from the outside.

Now even if the commonly accepted theory was true, then guess what? Most of the countries today wouldn't deserve to exist.

At 6/9/11 11:56 PM, Warforger wrote: First off the Palestinians have Greek DNA, there was an ancient group in Canaan that was a fierce enemy to the Jews the Phillistines, they were Greeks from the Aegean, put two and two together, so when the majority of Jews were gone they mixed with the Arabs and became the Palestinians,

This is impossible since the israelites annihilated the ancient tribes of canaan.

On top of this, the Jews originate from Ur a city in Mesopotamia, hence why their DNA isn't that different from Arabic DNA because they're the same people for the most part aside from racial mixing,

It is different, jews who lived in arabian countries have dna similarity with jews, from all over the world, more than with arabs. Not all middle eastern nations are one.

this makes the Jews the first Arabic invaders of the land.

Only that the previous nations who owned this land are extinct and we are it's earliset living owners.

At 6/12/11 02:44 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: wht ould happen is the US should give israel military support and end this whole thing all together.

Yeah, that's not happening anytime soon. We gave Israel military aid so that it could survive in 1973 and we got an oil embargo which hurt our economy. Furthermore, "allies" like Egypt (thus far) and Saudi Arabia let us use their strategic waterways and military bases to fight the War on Terror. These countries are anti-Israel and if we were to aid Israel and stop Hamas once and for all we ourselves would be screwed. It could trigger a pan Middle-Eastern war.

Last, how would we? The EU and UN are a bunch of saps who take the Palestinian side. We do what you suggest and goodbye NATO and hello UN sanctions. They say that the Palestinians deserve recognitionp(and to an extent it's true) but does "end[ing] this whole thing all together" mean getting rid of the Palestinians, or co-existing, or simply stopping Hamas?

Don't get me wrong I'm pro-Israel but the best we can hope for is a peace process. Sending troops or aid to Israel to "end this thing" would have so many more bad consequences.

Egypt's embracing Hamas but Syria's people are against Hezbollah...wonder what that means for Israel.

At 6/11/11 12:00 AM, satanbrain wrote:

At 6/9/11 11:56 PM, Warforger wrote: First off the Palestinians have Greek DNA, there was an ancient group in Canaan that was a fierce enemy to the Jews the Phillistines, they were Greeks from the Aegean, put two and two together, so when the majority of Jews were gone they mixed with the Arabs and became the Palestinians,

This is impossible since the israelites annihilated the ancient tribes of canaan.

Nope.. Not to mention this completely ignores the Non-Jewish nomadic tribes in the South

On top of this, the Jews originate from Ur a city in Mesopotamia, hence why their DNA isn't that different from Arabic DNA because they're the same people for the most part aside from racial mixing,

It is different, jews who lived in arabian countries have dna similarity with jews, from all over the world, more than with arabs. Not all middle eastern nations are one.

Of course, if you have more common ancestors of course. But they share alot of Common ancestors with the other Middle Eastern nations as well.

this makes the Jews the first Arabic invaders of the land.

Only that the previous nations who owned this land are extinct and we are it's earliset living owners.

And that makes it ok? Using this logic Hamas is completely justified for wanting to do what the Jews did to get the land. This logic doesn't even need to exist anymore, there is a global regulation organization called the UN, countries can intervene from across the world, in ancient Canaan this didn't exist and they could get away with genocide which they did, nowadays genocide is pretty hard to get away with.

trigger a pan middle eastern war

i'm sure with all the conflict going on right now, all the countries the united states military is currently in (all over the region).. a pan middle eastern war will occur regardless. oh wait it's called pan Kinetic Military Action

At 6/18/11 08:34 PM, Warforger wrote: Nope.. Not to mention this completely ignores the Non-Jewish nomadic tribes in the South

"They were subsequently absorbed into the Babylonian and Persian empires." Their nationality was lost. They were absorbed and gave up their nation. They could've kept their nation like the jews but they just became persians/babylonians.

Of course, if you have more common ancestors of course. But they share alot of Common ancestors with the other Middle Eastern nations as well.

So do jews from european countries. It was tested.

And that makes it ok?

No, but the group that should be recompensed doesn't exist anymore. You can't punish the ones who did it anymore, property is inheritable not crimes.

At 6/19/11 07:14 AM, satanbrain wrote:

At 6/18/11 08:34 PM, Warforger wrote: Nope.. Not to mention this completely ignores the Non-Jewish nomadic tribes in the South

"They were subsequently absorbed into the Babylonian and Persian empires." Their nationality was lost. They were absorbed and gave up their nation. They could've kept their nation like the jews but they just became persians/babylonians.

No. If you scrolled up you'd also see that the last trace was lost in 500 AD. This means the people are still related the Phillistines, which to the flawed argument of "Jews were there first" is wrong.

Of course, if you have more common ancestors of course. But they share alot of Common ancestors with the other Middle Eastern nations as well.

So do jews from european countries. It was tested.

Yes, because they share non-Jewish ancestors, difference here is that the Jews ceom from Arabic lands.

And that makes it ok?

No, but the group that should be recompensed doesn't exist anymore. You can't punish the ones who did it anymore, property is inheritable not crimes.

You are however saying that the Jews should be there because their ancestors expunged the natives from their homeland....

At 6/19/11 01:59 PM, Warforger wrote: No. If you scrolled up you'd also see that the last trace was lost in 500 AD. This means the people are still related the Phillistines, which to the flawed argument of "Jews were there first" is wrong.

No. They have lost their nation, their descendants are much closer to being babylonians/assyrians than philistines (if at all after hundreds of years).

You are however saying that the Jews should be there because their ancestors expunged the natives from their homeland....

No, I am saying that the earliset living owners of this land should owe this land because it was never given up. You want us to give up our land because of past crimes, the punishment doesn't correlate the crime.

In a statement Nato said: "A military missile site was the intended target of air strikes in Tripoli.

"However, it appears that one weapon did not strike the intended target and that there may have been a weapons system failure which may have caused a number of civilian casualties."
Is it still not the same as gaza?

before anybody continues, i am fully convinced that Israel is terrorist because it is against peace activists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_vV7Ijlk 8g&feature=channel_video_title

At 6/20/11 10:13 PM, JJdaDJ wrote: before anybody continues, i am fully convinced that Israel is terrorist because it is against peace activists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_vV7Ijlk 8g&feature=channel_video_title

They haev cut off the part when she is stoning the soldiers. You can even see these "peace" activits are attacking the soldiers while only their friend was stopped. In the second part all of his actions were cut off. amateur fabricators.

It is irrelevant at this point who did what in 1948. Israel is here. The people live in that land. They were born there; same with their parents and grandparents and so on. Israelis created their own life and culture. It's unreasonable to expect them to disappear now. Israel is here to stay and will stay.

At 6/26/11 02:25 AM, Ranger2 wrote: It is irrelevant at this point who did what in 1948.

It is very relevant, territorial claims are based on the ignorance of the reality of the war for for independece and the events who have taken place before it.

Israel is here. The people live in that land. They were born there; same with their parents and grandparents and so on.

It doesn't matter where we were born, if we were born in siani we would still have no right to hold it.

Israelis created their own life and culture. It's unreasonable to expect them to disappear now. Israel is here to stay and will stay.

Crating a culture and staying in a territory long enough doesn't make it ours. We won't disappear because we will not give up our land.