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Why do Zionist Jewbags feel the need to edit any information perceived as distasteful towards Israel and disregard historical events via fabrication for their destructive agenda?

At 11/16/10 12:17 AM, Warforger wrote: Israel fires missiles into schools then blames it on terrorists firing missiles from them, but when someone asks for documents about what happened Israel gives a small scene that makes them look good. Israel has constantly been caught bullshitting and right wingers don't pick up a whife of it.

Your media shows small scene that make israel look bad, here is what israel really gave.

At 6/9/10 02:49 PM, Ranger2 wrote: As some of you may have heard, about a week ago, Israel brutally murdered and sent many pro-Palestinian activists to the bottom of the sea, for trying to send humanitarian supplies.

Israel was wrong to fight against the flotilla brigade!
Its blockade of Gaza in the first place is illegal and wrong. By blocking vast shipments of aid to Hamas-I mean, Gaza, Israel is starving the Palestinians by denying them such hobbies like fireworks, grenades, and guns. How else are they supposed to liven up a party if all Israel allows them daily is thousands of pounds of food, water, and clothes? These flotilla activists were simply trying to help the plight of the Palestinian boredom by sending clubs, knives, and firebombs to liven up any situation, and make it blast!

Get it?

Israel was illegal in blockading Gaza! Even though Israel was abiding by UN and international laws by blcokading a country that is its sworn enemy, (something the Allies did to German and Japan), is it really right to blockade an area just so that a couple hundred of your civilians don't die each year from rocket attacks and bombings?

Israel was clearly the aggressor in this confrontation! Even though Israel gave the ships an opportunity to dock in Israeli ports safely and have their cargo checked and then sent to Gaza, and warned the ships beforehand that unless they turned back they would be boarded, Israel is the clear aggressor! Remember, the activists are victims and fighting in self-defense, even though they were the first to pull out knives, clubs, guns, and firebombs and throw Israeli soldiers overboard!

The activists are the good guys, can't you see that? Many of them said that they were willing to become martyrs for their cause, and if you're a martyr, you're good, even if you do spark the violence in the first place. Even though Greta Berlin, the leader of the activists, admitted that the purpose was not humanitarian, but to lift the blockade of Gaza and allow weapons to reach Hamas, the activists are evil and Israel, as usual, chose to use unnecessary force like arresting (and later releasing) the freedom-fighting activists.

Fucking Jews.

Hey! Watch the language, my fiancée is both Jewish and Arab. If Israel didn't do these blockades, then more Israeli citizens would be killed and the violence would just escalate. Also the Israeli Defence Force does not murder people who are innocent. So stop overexaggerating the actions of one state who is within its rights to protect its citizens from radical groups who seek to use violence to get the world to give them land. The only way that the violence in the Middle East will end is through peace and common sense with negotiations that will see the end of over 60 years of violence that was started firstly over 2000 years ago and secondly in 1948 when the state of Israel was established under the conditions of the Mandate that had existed until that year.

I take it that you are one of those people who are quick to accuse Israel of brutality when there are countries, such as China and the US, who regularly use violence as a punishment for criminal actions. Yes, I am referring to the death penalty. In future, think hard about why some countries do actions that seem harsh and then think hard again about the consequences if they didn't do those actions.

At 11/16/10 12:17 AM, Warforger wrote:

At 11/15/10 06:17 PM, tauer wrote: Israel is the only sane country in the middle east. Hamas are terrorists. They shoot rockets over the border into Israel and nobody lifts a finger. When Israel finally strikes back, the whole world are ready to call them mass murderers.

Israel fires missiles into schools then blames it on terrorists firing missiles from them, but when someone asks for documents about what happened Israel gives a small scene that makes them look good. Israel has constantly been caught bullshitting and right wingers don't pick up a whife of it.

It's the other way around, mate. Hamas fires missiles over the border into Israel. Palestine has constantly been caught firing missiles against Israel, and left wingers don't pick up a whife of it.

And when Israel finally decides to do something, people suddenly scream up about Israel being terrorists and murderers.

I say this is the League of Nation's fault for not distributing territory accordingly, they made a shitty division which resulted in conflicts fought even today.

Israel and the Palestine solution can maybe be peaceful, like, they were going on a good path with the Oslo accords, so probably a peaceful solution can happen, but it's distant for now.

At 11/16/10 04:17 PM, MiroDK wrote: I say this is the League of Nation's fault for not distributing territory accordingly, they made a shitty division which resulted in conflicts fought even today.

I don't think there's any possible way to to distribute the land so that everyone is happy. The religious and racial conflicts are just too long ongoing, and both sides are blind to the rights of the other.

At 11/16/10 10:00 AM, satanbrain wrote: Your media shows small scene that make israel look bad, here is what israel really gave.

See this kinda just ruined your argument, this footage for one isn't very clear and we all know clear footage is all that matters as you can tell by the American gunship which gunned down a journalist. Moreover, these guys look like they could just be gunned down by police, it doesn't look like they would need missiles to destroy two idiots firing rockets that just annoy people.

And yet what does Israel do? Oh thats right, fire missiles. I believe thats called "indiscriminate fire"......

At 11/16/10 03:58 AM, WolvenBear wrote: Terrorists fire from schools. Israel responds. Morons blame Israel.

Oh crap that' you.
My bad...

Oh right, when did they ever release the full footage of the Flotilla? Oh thats right never, all they did was release audio and footage of evil terrorists. Sounds like they have something to hide.......

At 11/16/10 12:54 PM, tauer wrote: It's the other way around, mate. Hamas fires missiles over the border into Israel. Palestine has constantly been caught firing missiles against Israel, and left wingers don't pick up a whife of it.

And when Israel finally decides to do something, people suddenly scream up about Israel being terrorists and murderers.

Not really, Israel has constantly been caught using bullshit to blame the Palestinians, like taking photo's of Turkish vests from a few years ago and claiming they were on the Flotilla, taking photo's of IDF commando's being carried by crew members and claiming they were attacking them when really they were treating them and saying they were armed to the teeth, when all they had was knives.

I'd trust Al-Jazeera over Ynet news any day, not that I trust Al-Jazeera at all, but I've seen enough disgustingly biased bullshit on Ynet to hate it.

But those Hamas guys take kids hostage!

At 11/21/10 07:32 AM, Chris-V2 wrote: But those Hamas guys take kids hostage!

A demotion? Really? Must be a treat to be void of REAL consequence.

"They remain IDF commanders, and we need people like that in the IDF," Katz (Lawyer) added.

They need war criminals within the ranks? I would prefer to distance myself from people like that.

At 11/20/10 08:18 PM, Warforger wrote: Oh right, when did they ever release the full footage of the Flotilla? Oh thats right never, all they did was release audio and footage of evil terrorists. Sounds like they have something to hide.......

You're still hung up on this? How do you explain that the commandos had paintball guns? Did they lose a bet or something?

Not really, Israel has constantly been caught using bullshit to blame the Palestinians, like taking photo's of Turkish vests from a few years ago and claiming they were on the Flotilla, taking photo's of IDF commando's being carried by crew members and claiming they were attacking them when really they were treating them and saying they were armed to the teeth, when all they had was knives.

An Israeli official doesn't always reprogram the date on his camera and you think it's proof of conspiracy.
When you are heavily outnumbered, at night, and taken by surprise when you expect no aggression, a knife is pretty dangerous.

Whatever respect I ever had for you is now gone. You're like Musician now.

At 11/21/10 07:32 AM, Chris-V2 wrote: But those Hamas guys take kids hostage!

And how many Hamas members have faced trial over it?

At 11/21/10 10:38 AM, adrshepard wrote:

At 11/21/10 07:32 AM, Chris-V2 wrote: But those Hamas guys take kids hostage!

And how many Hamas members have faced trial over it?

Please see the "I disagree with the actions of the IDF and therefore am a big stinky Hamas loving baby killing jew hating Palestinian" thread for that particular discourse.

At 11/21/10 10:34 AM, adrshepard wrote: You're still hung up on this? How do you explain that the commandos had paintball guns? Did they lose a bet or something?

Ok? Then they should release the full footage.....

An Israeli official doesn't always reprogram the date on his camera and you think it's proof of conspiracy.

....Except it was pretty clear it was far off...Especially when they were Turkish vests......

When you are heavily outnumbered, at night, and taken by surprise when you expect no aggression, a knife is pretty dangerous.

Not in the context Israel put it in, as in they inspected the ship and found out they had weapons, but they were just knives. May I remind you that in the footage the first Commando was hit with a pole, not a knife.

Whatever respect I ever had for you is now gone. You're like Musician now.

Ok cool.

At 11/21/10 02:50 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 11/21/10 10:34 AM, adrshepard wrote: You're still hung up on this? How do you explain that the commandos had paintball guns? Did they lose a bet or something?

Ok? Then they should release the full footage.....

What's the point? What could possibly be in the footage that would validate the Palestinian version of events that wasn't totally absurd? Do you think that the IDF sent guys with assault rifles on the other end of the boat to open fire while simultaneously deploying others with paintball guns one at a time against a hostile crowd? Were all the angry passengers just actors, or did the IDF instruct its soldiers to allow themselves to be attacked and manhandled just so they could get away with killing only 9 people? I want to hear your narrative.

There's no reason why the IDF should reveal its tactical procedures just to appease your bull-headed stubborness.

An Israeli official doesn't always reprogram the date on his camera and you think it's proof of conspiracy.

....Except it was pretty clear it was far off...Especially when they were Turkish vests......

So finding Turkish vests on a Turkish vessel with hundreds of Turks on board sounds "suspicious" to you?
It would be amazing planning if you were right, though. Think about it. Years ago, before the blockade even started, some IDF guys figured, "Hey, you know if we ever blockaded someplace and a bunch of people tried to break it posing as an aid ship but totally unarmed, it would be nice to have some pictures of kitchen knives on a deck so later when our guys killed them we could post them and claim it was self-defense."
"Great idea! I can totally see that happening!"

When you are heavily outnumbered, at night, and taken by surprise when you expect no aggression, a knife is pretty dangerous.

Not in the context Israel put it in, as in they inspected the ship and found out they had weapons, but they were just knives. May I remind you that in the footage the first Commando was hit with a pole, not a knife.

Let me come to your house sometime. You can try a rope to your roof and lower yourself down while I strike you in the head with a giant pole. Then you'll be in a better position to dismiss it.

At 11/21/10 11:03 AM, Chris-V2 wrote:

At 11/21/10 10:38 AM, adrshepard wrote:

At 11/21/10 07:32 AM, Chris-V2 wrote: But those Hamas guys take kids hostage!

And how many Hamas members have faced trial over it?

Please see the "I disagree with the actions of the IDF and therefore am a big stinky Hamas loving baby killing jew hating Palestinian" thread for that particular discourse.

If you spent less time searching for that image you'd realize that there's a huge difference between prosecuting your own men for violations and doing nothing because it's standard policy. When the US kills civilians, there's an investigation and possible prosecutions, and Hamas and other terrorists do it, they celebrate a successful attack.

At 11/21/10 03:59 PM, adrshepard wrote: There's no reason why the IDF should reveal its tactical procedures just to appease your bull-headed stubborness.

Oh, so we should not release any footage of any military procedures in fear that our enemies will find counters? This was a drop into civilians, not terrorists.

It would be amazing planning if you were right, though. Think about it. Years ago, before the blockade even started, some IDF guys figured, "Hey, you know if we ever blockaded someplace and a bunch of people tried to break it posing as an aid ship but totally unarmed, it would be nice to have some pictures of kitchen knives on a deck so later when our guys killed them we could post them and claim it was self-defense."
"Great idea! I can totally see that happening!"

It was pictures of Turkish vests taken from a bust on Hamas supplies.

Let me come to your house sometime. You can try a rope to your roof and lower yourself down while I strike you in the head with a giant pole. Then you'll be in a better position to dismiss it.

Ah, but then I wouldn't be surprised when your friend pulls a knife out on me. It was after they were done with the Flottila they searched it and found they had kitchen knives, they claimed they were "armed". Then they went on about how they were "linked with Al-Qaeda"

Honestly, If Israel wasn't so desperate to paint its enemy in the worst shade possible I'd root for them, but no I just take a look at the front page of Ynet and instantly sympathize with the Palestinians.

Why do you keep talking about Hamas? I'm talking about IDF policy.

A demotion and 3 months jail for using a 9 year old child as a human shield is hardly a punishment. My issue is that a first world, well-trained and educated country's military force have people in their ranks willing to put a child's life in danger and when they are brought to justice they get to keep their job!

At 11/21/10 04:02 PM, adrshepard wrote: When the US kills civilians, there's an investigation and possible prosecutions,

Not all the time, IIRC there have been numerous reports of soldiers just killing civilians and their commanders telling them they won't look into it. IIRC what the problem is that there isn't enough resources to investigate every single incident, so we get stuff like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwIFP9Kxr s0

As you can tell, they're celebrating their success at killing two "terrorists", when someone reports that these two may have blown themselves up on accident possibly laying an IED, he just says he blew them up and no one cares.

Again relating to my Bin Laden quote, for Hamas it has more to do with wanting them to feel the pain the IDF puts on them to the Israeli civilians. They have been bombed long before they started firing back.

At 11/21/10 04:16 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 11/21/10 04:02 PM, adrshepard wrote: When the US kills civilians, there's an investigation and possible prosecutions,

Not all the time, IIRC there have been numerous reports of soldiers just killing civilians and their commanders telling them they won't look into it. IIRC what the problem is that there isn't enough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwIFP9Kxr s0
As you can tell, they're celebrating their success at killing two "terrorists", when someone reports that these two may have blown themselves up on accident possibly laying an IED, he just says he blew them up and no one cares.

If you look closely, you can see the streak of the missle coming from the upper left. In all likelyhood they were laying an IAD, and the video angle suggests that it was taken on the ground by infantry who had been watching them for a while.
I don't see what the video is supposed to demonstrate. Does the cheering offend your sensibilities?

Again relating to my Bin Laden quote, for Hamas it has more to do with wanting them to feel the pain the IDF puts on them to the Israeli civilians. They have been bombed long before they started firing back.

Again, relating to your quote, the question is who bombed them. Not the US.

At 11/21/10 04:10 PM, Chris-V2 wrote: Why do you keep talking about Hamas? I'm talking about IDF policy.

Because you keep referencing this to imply that Hamas and Israeli forces are equally criminal, which just isn't true.

A demotion and 3 months jail for using a 9 year old child as a human shield is hardly a punishment. My issue is that a first world, well-trained and educated country's military force have people in their ranks willing to put a child's life in danger and when they are brought to justice they get to keep their job!

That does sound a bit light, there must have been some qualifying circumstances not developed in the article.
In any case, this incident actually supports IDF poilcy, since if it were accepted there would have been no trial to begin with.

At 11/21/10 04:42 PM, adrshepard wrote:

At 11/21/10 04:16 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 11/21/10 04:02 PM, adrshepard wrote: When the US kills civilians, there's an investigation and possible prosecutions,

Not all the time, IIRC there have been numerous reports of soldiers just killing civilians and their commanders telling them they won't look into it. IIRC what the problem is that there isn't enough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwIFP9Kxr s0
As you can tell, they're celebrating their success at killing two "terrorists", when someone reports that these two may have blown themselves up on accident possibly laying an IED, he just says he blew them up and no one cares.

If you look closely, you can see the streak of the missle coming from the upper left. In all likelyhood they were laying an IAD, and the video angle suggests that it was taken on the ground by infantry who had been watching them for a while.
I don't see what the video is supposed to demonstrate. Does the cheering offend your sensibilities?

Again relating to my Bin Laden quote, for Hamas it has more to do with wanting them to feel the pain the IDF puts on them to the Israeli civilians. They have been bombed long before they started firing back.

Again, relating to your quote, the question is who bombed them. Not the US.

At 11/21/10 04:10 PM, Chris-V2 wrote:

Because you keep referencing this to imply that Hamas and Israeli forces are equally criminal, which just isn't true.

Emmm..I don't really know what to say to that. Surely I determine what I do and don't imply, right? Implicit statements were never intended - I'm commenting on IDF actions. It doesn't matter if both did similar levels of distasteful things since both sides come from different backgrounds - guerillia milita vs. extremely modern, highly trained and heavily equipped armed forces. You're not comparing like for like so direct comparisons in terms of, and I'd like to emphasise the big issue here, published accounts of war crimes is a waste of time.

That does sound a bit light, there must have been some qualifying circumstances not developed in the article.

That's supposition at best.

In any case, this incident actually supports IDF poilcy, since if it were accepted there would have been no trial to begin with.

Much like the prosectution of those people who photographed humiliated Afghani POWs must have put an end to all that in Afghanistan? It's a standard part of military media strategy - you have to try and keep the public on your side and sometimes you have to lose a finger to keep a hand. If you can avoid a leak at least it gives you spin control, and if you make an example or two you can avoid accustations of conspiracy/total negligence.

At 11/21/10 04:42 PM, adrshepard wrote: If you look closely, you can see the streak of the missle coming from the upper left.

No I don't. I looked for it may have been slight but nothing...

At 11/21/10 04:42 PM, adrshepard wrote: In all likelyhood they were laying an IAD, and the video angle suggests that it was taken on the ground by infantry who had been watching them for a while.

Is that why the camera has a target in it?

I don't see what the video is supposed to demonstrate. Does the cheering offend your sensibilities?

Oh right, you see a video of a guy whose saying "lets fucking kill that kid....GOT HIM! WOO HOO! *Hey man there may have been an IED strike you might wanna check it out* Naw man that was all me *good job!*" and that doesn't disturb you in the slightest? I guess US soldiers must be saints, like the case where two US soldiers stationed in South Korea raped a little girl, that didn't happen!

At 11/21/10 04:42 PM, adrshepard wrote: Again, relating to your quote, the question is who bombed them. Not the US.

Does it matter? The US came in full support of their bombings even sending some of their own military forces to help out.

At 11/21/10 05:54 PM, Warforger wrote: Is that why the camera has a target in it?

Yes, they were probably designating it for the missle strike.

I don't see what the video is supposed to demonstrate. Does the cheering offend your sensibilities?

Oh right, you see a video of a guy whose saying "lets fucking kill that kid....GOT HIM! WOO HOO! *Hey man there may have been an IED strike you might wanna check it out* Naw man that was all me *good job!*" and that doesn't disturb you in the slightest?

They are celebrating the awesome destruction of the enemy (by "awesome" I mean incredible, because it was a big explosion). There probably is anger and frustration as well. Perfectly understandable to me, not a problem until it starts unduly influencing operations.

I guess US soldiers must be saints, like the case where two US soldiers stationed in South Korea raped a little girl, that didn't happen!

That has nothing to do with this video.

At 11/21/10 04:42 PM, adrshepard wrote: Again, relating to your quote, the question is who bombed them. Not the US.

Does it matter? The US came in full support of their bombings even sending some of their own military forces to help out.

The US supported the Israeli mission and the Lebanese government against the rebels. The US sent peacekeeping forces to Beirut as political and military leverage. They conducted reactive operations and as far as I can see, did not actively cooperate Israeli military operations.

This entire time I've been trying to show you that you wrong to say that the US destroyed the towers or whatever in Lebanon, and yet again you come out with another inaccuracy.
Still waiting for your narrative of the flotilla raid.

At 11/21/10 04:10 PM, Chris-V2 wrote:

That does sound a bit light, there must have been some qualifying circumstances not developed in the article.

That's supposition at best.

Yes and no. The article quotes that the soldiers "didn't want the child to get hurt" as one of the mitigating factors. I don't understand how that can be true unless their attitude was "Yeah, there may be bombs and he might die, but we hope not." It also quotes a soldier who refers to the "neighbor procedure." I don't know the exact details of the procedure, so it's possible what they did was an improper interpretation and not a deliberate crime (maybe they're just stupid).

In any case, this incident actually supports IDF poilcy, since if it were accepted there would have been no trial to begin with.

Much like the prosectution of those people who photographed humiliated Afghani POWs must have put an end to all that in Afghanistan?

Hard to prove a negative, but there haven't been anymore leaked photos, right? I'm not a big believer in government conspiracies of this sort because there are just far too many people that would have to be involved for it to succeed. So I'll believe that it was an exceptional incident until I have reason not to.

At 11/21/10 06:36 PM, adrshepard wrote: They are celebrating the awesome destruction of the enemy (by "awesome" I mean incredible, because it was a big explosion). There probably is anger and frustration as well. Perfectly understandable to me, not a problem until it starts unduly influencing operations.

Uh right. Tell me, if its just two guys why don't they just go in blazing guns?They're already spying on them and if your explanation is correct, there should've been no need to fire a missile.

Again, "Let's fucking kill that kid" is not something you say when your trying to kill terrorists.....

At 11/21/10 04:42 PM, adrshepard wrote: That has nothing to do with this video.

Oh, so you admit its possible that they were intentionally aiming at two civilians because they're sick fucks? Much like how the soldiers raped a little girl?

At 11/21/10 04:42 PM, adrshepard wrote: The US supported the Israeli mission and the Lebanese government against the rebels. The US sent peacekeeping forces to Beirut as political and military leverage. They conducted reactive operations and as far as I can see, did not actively cooperate Israeli military operations.

This entire time I've been trying to show you that you wrong to say that the US destroyed the towers or whatever in Lebanon, and yet again you come out with another inaccuracy.

When did I say that? Again your not addressing me your addressing Bin Laden himself, I'm merely saying its that they came in and supported a nation which bombed these people so its not hard for them to just toss out the leverage as bullshit.

Again your own post is an inaccuracy.....

Still waiting for your narrative of the flotilla raid.

You missed it a couple posts up.

At 11/21/10 07:00 PM, Warforger wrote:

This entire time I [Osama Bin Laden] 've been trying to show you that you wrong to say that the US destroyed the towers or whatever in Lebanon, and yet again you come out with another inaccuracy.

Warforger, Osama Bin Laden doesn't hate us because we accidentally allegedly blew up a medicine factory. Bin Laden doesn't give a damn about kids; if he did, he would not have run Afghanistan like he did.

Bin Laden hates us because...
a: We are a democracy and don't follow Sharia law. He sees that as evil.
b: We support Israel. When Al-Qaida sent anthrax to the US, in the letters they sent with the powder read "Down with Israel." Bin Laden hates us and the West because we support Israel.

Bin Laden is not someone who "wept with sadness as the medical facility exploded, knowing that little Hakim would never see his mother again." He doesn't hate us because we tried to bomb terrorist training camps. He is the moral equivalent of Hitler and Stalin. He hates the United States because we stand for principles he opposes.

He hates us like Germans hated the Jews in WWII (yes, it's an old comparison but it is relevant). He didn't hate the Jews because they were a threat, or because they did anything wrong, but because they existed, and the fact that they existed was so revolting that it led him to do terrible things.

We weren't in Afghanistan on 9/11. We weren't in Iraq on 9/11. We weren't threats to Bin Laden. But because we existed, he attacked us.

At 11/23/10 09:23 PM, Ranger2 wrote: Warforger, Osama Bin Laden doesn't hate us because we accidentally allegedly blew up a medicine factory. Bin Laden doesn't give a damn about kids; if he did, he would not have run Afghanistan like he did.

Huh? When did he run Afghanistan? I never heard that. Also I'll bet he gives a damn about Muslim kids...

Bin Laden hates us because...
a: We are a democracy and don't follow Sharia law. He sees that as evil.

Sort of true, though it's too narrow. He hates us because he sees us an objectionable culture that has invaded his culture and "corrupted" it. He feels the need to fight back against this (and there's probably some megalomania mixed in there as well).

b: We support Israel. When Al-Qaida sent anthrax to the US, in the letters they sent with the powder read "Down with Israel." Bin Laden hates us and the West because we support Israel.

Again, you're correct but not telling or understanding the whole story.

Bin Laden is not someone who "wept with sadness as the medical facility exploded, knowing that little Hakim would never see his mother again." He doesn't hate us because we tried to bomb terrorist training camps. He is the moral equivalent of Hitler and Stalin. He hates the United States because we stand for principles he opposes.

True, and one of the things he opposes is when "his" people are killed by us or by those we support. Or do you have real evidence to back up these claims? Also Hitler liked kids, everybody says so. Stalin liked people that were loyal to him. So if he's their moral equivalent...well, that actually kind of backs up what Warforger said a bit doesn't it?

He hates us like Germans hated the Jews in WWII (yes, it's an old comparison but it is relevant). He didn't hate the Jews because they were a threat, or because they did anything wrong, but because they existed, and the fact that they existed was so revolting that it led him to do terrible things.

Don't give yourselves all the credit. Osama hates lots of other people too (including Muslim's who don't agree with him! Or was I lied to and everyone killed on 9/11 was a Jew?) Hitler hated other people too, it's just that for whatever reason people don't focus on their numbers like the Jews have focused on the amount of them killed in The Holocaust. Guess there isn't the same political gain.

We weren't in Afghanistan on 9/11. We weren't in Iraq on 9/11. We weren't threats to Bin Laden. But because we existed, he attacked us.

Because he hates our culture and because he saw us first hand in Afghanistan back in the day, and elsewhere doing things he didn't like (though he accepted our training). He also doesn't like people we're allied with who in his mind have done horrible threatening things to him and his in the past.

Does that justify him? Hell to the fuck to the no. But I think it's important to understand your enemies and what motivates them vs. only understanding pieces of the equation.

At 11/23/10 09:23 PM, Ranger2 wrote: Warforger, Osama Bin Laden doesn't hate us because we accidentally allegedly blew up a medicine factory. Bin Laden doesn't give a damn about kids; if he did, he would not have run Afghanistan like he did.

......Because you've met him? What you just said is post-9/11 rally propaganda, again if you actually listen to his messages to us you would know more about him even then alot of the time its mistranslated by the CIA to its most anti-Osama way. This puts into question everything we know about the Taliban and Al-Qaeda,

Uh, I'm confused Warforger, are you saying there's a "pro-Osama" way?

I'm not sure mistranslation calls into question everything we know. I mean, I feel pretty safe in the statements I made in my last post based on what I can find out about the man. I think the only potential question mark on him that I obviously cannot verify (but it sounds at least plausible as far as these things go) is whether or not Osama has ever stopped being a CIA asset.

At 11/24/10 01:48 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: Uh, I'm confused Warforger, are you saying there's a "pro-Osama" way?

No a non-biased way, take this for example

"On December 20, 2001, German TV channel "Das Erste" broadcast an analysis of the White House's translation of the videotape. On the program "Monitor", two independent translators and an expert on oriental studies found the White House's translation to be both inaccurate and manipulative stating "At the most important places where it is held to prove the guilt of bin Laden, it is not identical with the Arabic" and that the words used that indicate foreknowledge can not be heard at all in the original. Prof. Gernot Rotter, professor of Islamic and Arabic Studies at the Asia-Africa Institute at the University of Hamburg said "The American translators who listened to the tapes and transcribed them apparently wrote a lot of things in that they wanted to hear but that cannot be heard on the tape no matter how many times you listen to it.""

This is just like the time Ahmadenijad supposedly said "Wipe Israel off the map" when he really said "wipe the Zionist regime out of Israel".

I'm not sure mistranslation calls into question everything we know. I mean, I feel pretty safe in the statements I made in my last post based on what I can find out about the man. I think the only potential question mark on him that I obviously cannot verify (but it sounds at least plausible as far as these things go) is whether or not Osama has ever stopped being a CIA asset.

I mean, if everything the terrorists say is intentionally mistranslated by the CIA then we really don't know why they're fighting and what they are trying to tell us is what I meant.

At 11/21/10 07:00 PM, Warforger wrote: Uh right. Tell me, if its just two guys why don't they just go in blazing guns?They're already spying on them and if your explanation is correct, there should've been no need to fire a missile.

Why not? Perhaps whoever was filming it wasn't equipped for a long range shot. If they were spotted, the soldiers would probably have to pursue the militants over the path of the bomb, which is a pretty stupid idea.
Even if the two planters came forward and surrendered, they'd still have to deal with the bomb, probably by blowing it up. A missile solves all these problems and has no risk.

Again, "Let's fucking kill that kid" is not something you say when your trying to kill terrorists.....

You expect them all to be philosophical warriors? These are human beings in their early 20s under a lot of stress, give them a little leeway.

Oh, so you admit its possible that they were intentionally aiming at two civilians because they're sick fucks? Much like how the soldiers raped a little girl?

Why are you so convinced that they were civilians? You don't know how long they were being watched before the missle landed. It takes a while to call in a strike like that, and if its a recent video, you can be sure it had to be approved by superior officers. They wouldn't authorize it based on the short version in the video.

This entire time I've been trying to show you that you wrong to say that the US destroyed the towers or whatever in Lebanon, and yet again you come out with another inaccuracy.

When did I say that?

In the other thread, I guess I got confused.

At 11/21/10 04:07 PM, Warforger wrote: Oh, so we should not release any footage of any military procedures in fear that our enemies will find counters? This was a drop into civilians, not terrorists.

Doesn't matter. The objective was to take control of the ship and secure the passengers. That takes planning and strategy. The IDF has no reason to make that public.

It was pictures of Turkish vests taken from a bust on Hamas supplies.

I haven't seen any evidence of that, even on the anti-Israel websites.

Ah, but then I wouldn't be surprised when your friend pulls a knife out on me. It was after they were done with the Flottila they searched it and found they had kitchen knives, they claimed they were "armed". Then they went on about how they were "linked with Al-Qaeda"

Are you saying that no one on the ship was armed and none had any link to Al-Qaeda? How are you in any position to dispute what the IDF says in those respects?

At 11/24/10 04:42 PM, adrshepard wrote: Why not? Perhaps whoever was filming it wasn't equipped for a long range shot. If they were spotted, the soldiers would probably have to pursue the militants over the path of the bomb, which is a pretty stupid idea.

So they couldn't like say set up an ambush?

Even if the two planters came forward and surrendered, they'd still have to deal with the bomb, probably by blowing it up.

Of which they have the technology for....

A missile solves all these problems and has no risk.

Besides like you know hitting civilians?

Why are you so convinced that they were civilians? You don't know how long they were being watched before the missle landed. It takes a while to call in a strike like that, and if its a recent video, you can be sure it had to be approved by superior officers. They wouldn't authorize it based on the short version in the video.

Why are you so convinced they're not civilians? Again I don't see any missile trail and I guess its too brief to be explained. Surely it could also be a mortar? That seems far more likely.... And thus the list of possible explanations goes on.

Doesn't matter. The objective was to take control of the ship and secure the passengers. That takes planning and strategy. The IDF has no reason to make that public.

.....Other then say attempt to clear their dirty name?

Are you saying that no one on the ship was armed and none had any link to Al-Qaeda? How are you in any position to dispute what the IDF says in those respects?

"Armed" with kitchen knives which is already outrageous since a house wife is then a terrorist, and there was no evidence that they were linked with Al-Qaeda, they even retracted the statements after they admitted they have no evidence

http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/06/under-s crutiny-idf-retracts-claims-about-flotil las-al-qaeda-links/