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Would you die for your country?

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Dubbi
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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 2nd, 2010 @ 08:44 PM Reply

At 6/2/10 08:29 PM, OddlyPoetic wrote:
At 6/2/10 08:26 PM, RacistBassist wrote:
At 6/2/10 08:24 PM, OddlyPoetic wrote: You think that's what we're doing in Iraq?

Cute
We are removing terrorists who have resentment towards Americans, and we are establishing a democracy and training an Iraqi force so they can eventually govern themselves.
What terrorists have we gotten rid of? We're losing this war terribly. So the whole thing is sort of backfiring. It isn't our job to train an Iraqi force. Why should we spend any effort or money on it?

For two reasons:
1. We messed there country up, when we invaded -- so we have a moral right to fix it. This also means training there police force.
2. With no police force, Iraq will become unstable again, and will thus jeapordize America's national security. Radical terrorists having a safe-haven to attack us from, is not good.

What is so unjust about that?
Not unjust. But not our concern. Who says Iraq wants a democracy? Maybe, just maybe they were better off as a dictatorship. Even if not, it's their job to reform the government, not ours.

I explained this with the police point.

And if you say oil, I am going to have a field day in your argument
No. Hunting down terrorists was the plan, But it didn't seem to work out that way.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/al-qa eda-confirms-2-top-terrorists-dead

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.
aspx?id=50456
(And things have only improved since this was published.


I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
Than teach 10,000 stars how not to dance.
-- ee cummings

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 2nd, 2010 @ 08:45 PM Reply

At 6/1/10 05:06 PM, GaMRiX wrote: Nope. Our country doesn't deserve it.

AGREED
"we" have been getting into wars that we don't even need to for the longest time, our last "good" war may have been vietnam, MAY have....

so much bullshit these days


thanks for the sig Phobotech

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 2nd, 2010 @ 09:24 PM Reply

At 6/2/10 08:33 PM, OddlyPoetic wrote:
At 6/2/10 08:31 PM, KennyD wrote:
At 6/2/10 08:24 PM, OddlyPoetic wrote: You think that's what we're doing in Iraq?

Cute
Have you been to Iraq and Afghanistan?
Notta. But i don't need to have been there to see what's going on. And i find the liberal use of the word "Terrorist" to be curious. It seems to me that people we're fighting now are not so much Terrorists as they are insurgents.

Let me enlighten you. Imagine an enemy that hides in plain sight. Where one block your handing out candy to children and the next your taking RPG fire, You rebuild a school only to have insurgents take it over to hide. Hesitating to fire to steady your aim so you dont hit the humans the use as shields, training and cleaning up a corrupt army, a police force that rather get high on opium than fight crime, and a government who tells you to get out publicly, but privately they need you to stay.

You can listen to the news and look at all the liveleak videos you want, but until your actually out there and see everything at is really going on....STFU and GTFO.

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:10 AM Reply

At 6/2/10 09:24 PM, KennyD wrote:
Stuff

Lolol stupid jarhead.

Go take a bullet to the face, junior.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:52 AM Reply

Israel does not deserve my defense.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 09:16 AM Reply

People shouldn't have to die for their country in the first place.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 09:19 AM Reply

i would, i have no logical reason to refuse.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 09:29 AM Reply

At 6/2/10 08:33 PM, RacistBassist wrote:
At 6/2/10 08:29 PM, OddlyPoetic wrote: Not unjust. But not our concern. Who says Iraq wants a democracy? Maybe, just maybe they were better off as a dictatorship. Even if not, it's their job to reform the government, not ours.
An oppressive dictator that would kill those who spoke against him and had death squads roaming the streets?

Right, sounds like something they want. You are being very egocentric in your views. People think too much of themselves and are not willing to help their fellow humans.

I think OddlyPoetic has a few good points actually. If anything, the Americans seem to be the ones who are forcing their views on other people. The Americans seem to be the ones who are all assuming that the citizens of Iraq wanted this and are very happy now, now that they are telling them what to do instead of Saddam.

I'm not saying that they aren't any happier now, but I find it rather strange that I only hear things from the American side and have never heard any opinions from the people of Iraq themselves (as in: from the ordinary citizens). I can very well imagine that the people of Iraq are not very pleased with their country being the most unsafe place in the world at the moment.

And another thing, I really do hope people realize that this whole 'war on terror' was not the reason America invaded Iraq, and is most likely just used to win support and let other countries help with cleaning up the giant mess they created after the invasion. I doubt the American government really gives a shit about a few ordinary people living in a desert thousands of miles away from them. There was no serious threat either since those 'weapons of mass destruction' were never there.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 10:35 AM Reply

At 6/2/10 08:33 PM, RacistBassist wrote: Does Al Queda/the Taliban run those countries anymore?

Haven't been watching the news? In Afghanistan they do. As for Iraq, it wasn't run by Taliban or Al-Qaida, it was run by Saddam, who was a secular Arab nationalist and ssworn enemy of Bin Laden. You know, exactly the opposite of what the US government claimed. Meanwhile, the Iraqi version, cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and his army are on the rise. A crisis is always good for an efficient organizer with a cohoroent, familiar ideology.

As for democracy in Iraq. Yeah, right. US is going to allow that, right after reprimending Israel, apologizing to the Indians and building a base on Mars. Iraq has a Shi'ia majority, as does neighbouring Iran. The Iraqi Shi'ites would align with Iran instantly, it would be the only logical choise. The US wouldn't allow this. They would set up a puppet demmocracy.

The point of the war wasn't to liberate the Iraqi people, the US wasn't even in contact with the democratic opposition of Iraq. It wasn't to get Saddam with minimum struggle. it was to establish US presence in the region, and to wipe the slate in Iraq clean -- the rebuild contracts were auctioned off to Haliburton before the first shells dropped.

Afghanistan also wasn't about liberating anyone. It was about revenge. It was also filled with massive mistakes, like destroying any infrastructure, thus giving power to the Taaliban, who were used to ooperating outside it.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 06:55 PM Reply

At 6/2/10 08:07 PM, Dubbi wrote: RB is talking about the American army, and you're talking about ancient armies -- so what the hell is your point? Also, (assuming you live in the U.S.) you should have a bit more respect for your nation. American soldiers freed you from England; prevented our great union from splitting; and stopped fascists who were aiming to wipe out all jews. If it weren't for soldiers who were willing to not be complete cowards, like you, your pathetic life would be much worse. And one more thing: if you don't like America, or any other nation you live in, then get the hell out. What right do you have to live here and lavish in the luxuries that our soldiers died for, if you're not willing to respect our nation?

First of all, you didn't read my fucking post.The part about ancient armies was an example to make you get my point (since I said "today is pretty much the same etc.").
Then again, you obviously didn't read my other post either, since I said that I am not American (and that's why I don't worship the US army like every good American does)
But I'm talking to a stuck-up American, I won't be able to convince you no matter what I say, so I might as well don't do it...but I will anyway.
First of all, I'm not talking about WW2, only recent or semi-recent conflicts...and I'm surprised that some people still believe that America recently goes into wars to "free people" and whatnot...you need to listen to someone except whoever is giving you the "official story"...I hate quoting a videogame, but, ya know, it's pretty spot-on: "Every war is our war, so we don't get to sit one out."
Why do they pick sides into most of the modern conflicts?Because they love the guys over there, or because they will gain something from it, whatever it may be?Think about it...

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 06:59 PM Reply

I would FIGHT for my country. But going on a suicide mission where I'm almost certain to die? Nah.


You have to draw the line of determination from desperation. What is truly yours would eventually be yours, and what is not, no matter how hard you try, will never be.

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 07:06 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 06:55 PM, HeavyTank wrote:
First of all, you didn't read my fucking post.The part about ancient armies was an example to make you get my point (since I said "today is pretty much the same etc.").

I really didn't see any point in your post except your point that America sucks, because I say so.

Then again, you obviously didn't read my other post either, since I said that I am not American (and that's why I don't worship the US army like every good American does)

You don't have to worship America... Just give her the respect she deserves.

But I'm talking to a stuck-up American, I won't be able to convince you no matter what I say, so I might as well don't do it...but I will anyway.

Attacking people you're arguing is fun.

First of all, I'm not talking about WW2, only recent or semi-recent conflicts...and I'm surprised that some people still believe that America recently goes into wars to "free people" and whatnot...you need to listen to someone except whoever is giving you the "official story"...I hate quoting a videogame, but, ya know, it's pretty spot-on: "Every war is our war, so we don't get to sit one out."

You never gave one reason which pertained to why America's modern conflicts are as evil as you say they are. It's right because I say so, doesn't work when your this age.

Why do they pick sides into most of the modern conflicts?Because they love the guys over there, or because they will gain something from it, whatever it may be?Think about it...

We don't get into every conflict... This source cites dozens of wars that have occured in the last 6 years -- yet, we've only sent combat troops into war twice: in Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war s_2003%E2%80%93current

Obviously we don't soley to war to help other people, we go to war in order to protect America!


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 07:17 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 10:35 AM, JohnnyWang wrote: Haven't been watching the news? In Afghanistan they do. As for Iraq, it wasn't run by Taliban or Al-Qaida, it was run by Saddam, who was a secular Arab nationalist and ssworn enemy of Bin Laden. You know, exactly the opposite of what the US government claimed. Meanwhile, the Iraqi version, cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and his army are on the rise. A crisis is always good for an efficient organizer with a cohoroent, familiar ideology.

That's funny, because Afghanistan is currently being ran by an elected president. It doesn't really matter if Saddam and Bin Laden were in bed with each other so to speak. What we are doing there is removing oppressive regimes and instilling democracy and giving them the means to uphold it.

As for democracy in Iraq. Yeah, right. US is going to allow that, right after reprimending Israel, apologizing to the Indians and building a base on Mars. Iraq has a Shi'ia majority, as does neighbouring Iran. The Iraqi Shi'ites would align with Iran instantly, it would be the only logical choise. The US wouldn't allow this. They would set up a puppet demmocracy.

How the hell are any of those things related? That is one of the worst arguments I have heard. We are currently trying to open free elections. I like how you assume that all Muslim people have the same ideology and will instantly support the others of their kind, with the only split being between the Sunnis and Shi'ites.

The point of the war wasn't to liberate the Iraqi people, the US wasn't even in contact with the democratic opposition of Iraq. It wasn't to get Saddam with minimum struggle. it was to establish US presence in the region, and to wipe the slate in Iraq clean -- the rebuild contracts were auctioned off to Haliburton before the first shells dropped.

So our goal was to spend trillions of dollars, to get Haliburton a contract? Some of the shit people say is very lol. If you really don't think we are liberating Iraq from Saddam, who is no longer in power, or breathing, then I don't exactly know what to say. The women there have many more freedoms then they once did, and some actually walk without the Burqas.

Afghanistan also wasn't about liberating anyone. It was about revenge. It was also filled with massive mistakes, like destroying any infrastructure, thus giving power to the Taaliban, who were used to ooperating outside it.

We went to Afghanistan to remove terrorists. And with the dropping rates of conflict with the Taliban, I have to say that we are being pretty successful.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 07:24 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 07:06 PM, Dubbi wrote: I really didn't see any point in your post except your point that America sucks, because I say so.

Oh great, yeah, that's totally what I was trying to say...or maybe it's just you generalizing?Hm, yeah, it's probably that....


You don't have to worship America... Just give her the respect she deserves.

^^Worshipping...in the last 50 years, America did nothing (military-wise) to deserve anyone's respect..

Attacking people you're arguing is fun.

It is, isn't it?Especially when it's true...

You never gave one reason which pertained to why America's modern conflicts are as evil as you say they are. It's right because I say so, doesn't work when your this age.

Check out any article about some recent American conflict on the web...it's not right because I say so, but frankly, the sources are so many that I CBA finding some for you since it's so easy..I dunno, the general opinion is "not happy with what they do", but you probably didn't know that since you live there...

:...

We don't get into every conflict... This source cites dozens of wars that have occured in the last 6 years -- yet, we've only sent combat troops into war twice: in Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war s_2003%E2%80%93current

Last 6 years, yeah (also, two major wars in 6 years is not normal)...but what about all the small confclits that can't be really considered wars where basically America picks a side, probably depending on the country's political views?


Obviously we don't soley to war to help other people, we go to war in order to protect America!

Sooooo when was the last time you "protected" your nation from some evil attacker? (note-attacker: a country that sends their troops in the US to fight against the US army)..let's face it, not many nations have the military power to attack the US head-on...the real "protection" a country has are nukes...
Just follow the "You invade me, I nuke your ass" ideology..

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 07:29 PM Reply

Yeah, I might give it up for America.

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 07:34 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 07:24 PM, HeavyTank wrote: Oh great, yeah, that's totally what I was trying to say...or maybe it's just you generalizing?Hm, yeah, it's probably that....

Funny how every person who responded to your post got the same thing from it.

It is simply illogical to compare modern armies to ancient armies, especially our structure compared to theirs.

^^Worshipping...in the last 50 years, America did nothing (military-wise) to deserve anyone's respect..

Yeah, who cares that we toppled an oppressive regime that would execute those who disagreed with them and that rape was a punishable by death offense for the victim

It is, isn't it?Especially when it's true...

Which only proves to show how mentally lacking you are that you have to attack the character and not the argument.

Check out any article about some recent American conflict on the web...it's not right because I say so, but frankly, the sources are so many that I CBA finding some for you since it's so easy..I dunno, the general opinion is "not happy with what they do", but you probably didn't know that since you live there...

The first page of results for "war in afghanistan" "war in Iraq" and "war on terror" have nothing that you mentioned. I have tried several searches for unhappy Iraq or Afghan citizens with the US military, and I can't find anything. I was unaware that you lived over there

Last 6 years, yeah (also, two major wars in 6 years is not normal)...but what about all the small confclits that can't be really considered wars where basically America picks a side, probably depending on the country's political views?

You mean countries pick sides in wars?!

HOLY SHIT

Sooooo when was the last time you "protected" your nation from some evil attacker? (note-attacker: a country that sends their troops in the US to fight against the US army)..let's face it, not many nations have the military power to attack the US head-on...the real "protection" a country has are nukes...

Well, when you force a certain definition of the word to make yourself look right, of course we can't come up with anything. With that definition, we never attacked Japan in WW2. Not many nations can attack us head-on, so they resort to methods such as terrorism.

Just follow the "You invade me, I nuke your ass" ideology..

Funny how we haven't nuked any of the countries tied to 9/11 then huh?


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 07:40 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 07:24 PM, HeavyTank wrote:
At 6/3/10 07:06 PM, Dubbi wrote: I really didn't see any point in your post except your point that America sucks, because I say so.
Oh great, yeah, that's totally what I was trying to say...or maybe it's just you generalizing?Hm, yeah, it's probably that....

No, your post wasn't as profound as you think it was.

You don't have to worship America... Just give her the respect she deserves.
^^Worshipping...in the last 50 years, America did nothing (military-wise) to deserve anyone's respect..

Who said we were speaking only military-wise?

Attacking people you're arguing is fun.
It is, isn't it?Especially when it's true...

So you're admitting to being a jerk.

You never gave one reason which pertained to why America's modern conflicts are as evil as you say they are. It's right because I say so, doesn't work when your this age.
Check out any article about some recent American conflict on the web...it's not right because I say so, but frankly, the sources are so many that I CBA finding some for you since it's so easy..I dunno, the general opinion is "not happy with what they do", but you probably didn't know that since you live there...

Again... No argument -- just America sucks because that's what some people say.

...
We don't get into every conflict... This source cites dozens of wars that have occured in the last 6 years -- yet, we've only sent combat troops into war twice: in Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war s_2003%E2%80%93current
Last 6 years, yeah (also, two major wars in 6 years is not normal)...but what about all the small confclits that can't be really considered wars where basically America picks a side, probably depending on the country's political views?

The wars we're in now, are not major.
Can you supply some examples of us "picking sides".


Obviously we don't soley to war to help other people, we go to war in order to protect America!
Sooooo when was the last time you "protected" your nation from some evil attacker? (note-attacker: a country that sends their troops in the US to fight against the US army)..let's face it, not many nations have the military power to attack the US head-on...the real "protection" a country has are nukes...

I'm not in the military. Also, a country doesn't have to attack us, for it to be threatening us. If that's the case, Nazi Germany was never a threat.

Just follow the "You invade me, I nuke your ass" ideology..

When has America ever done that?


I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
Than teach 10,000 stars how not to dance.
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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 07:50 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 07:34 PM, RacistBassist wrote: Funny how every person who responded to your post got the same thing from it.

Not my fault if you can't read-also, way to go, now I have to argue with two people at once...


Yeah, who cares that we toppled an oppressive regime that would execute those who disagreed with them and that rape was a punishable by death offense for the victim

Listen, stuff like that happens on a daily basis in a lot of countries even today and you don't do shit about it...you didn't "topple the evil regime" just because you didn't like their way of ruling..

Which only proves to show how mentally lacking you are that you have to attack the character and not the argument.

The character IS the argument..if you talk to someone that is completely stuck-up, you can't really expect to have a fruitful conversation, can you?
And why are you insulting me?Resorting to cheap insults is not really the way to make me agree with you...



The first page of results for "war in afghanistan" "war in Iraq" and "war on terror" have nothing that you mentioned. I have tried several searches for unhappy Iraq or Afghan citizens with the US military, and I can't find anything. I was unaware that you lived over there

You used Google?
Sigh...I didn't mean THAT kind of search..and the citizens didn't appear happy on TV, that's a fact...



You mean countries pick sides in wars?!

Pick sides in wars they have nothing to do with...

HOLY SHIT

Smartass...

Well, when you force a certain definition of the word to make yourself look right, of course we can't come up with anything. With that definition, we never attacked Japan in WW2. Not many nations can attack us head-on, so they resort to methods such as terrorism.

Yeah, good excuse...hey, aren't you happy that nobody invaded you?Why the hell are you angry?

Funny how we haven't nuked any of the countries tied to 9/11 then huh?

Nuking a whole country just because some people coming from it are terrorists wouldn't be very wise...
"Hey, I saw a terrorist yesterday..he was wearing a weird hat or something and his skin was brown, so I suppose he's a Muslim..."
"OMFG LETS GO NUKE ALL MUSLIM COUNTRIES"
"YEAH THEY ARE ALL TERRORISTS"

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 07:55 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 07:40 PM, Dubbi wrote: No, your post wasn't as profound as you think it was.

Uh uh.

Who said we were speaking only military-wise?

..um...I thought we were talking about that...

So you're admitting to being a jerk.

So you admit being wrong.

Again... No argument -- just America sucks because that's what some people say.

Aaaand so America DOESN'T suck just because THEY say so?Yeah, that's a better argument..OH WAIT.

The wars we're in now, are not major.
Can you supply some examples of us "picking sides".

I'm really not in a searchning mood right now...

I'm not in the military. Also, a country doesn't have to attack us, for it to be threatening us. If that's the case, Nazi Germany was never a threat.

Nazi Germany would've probably attacked you if they took over Europe..so technically, they were a threat.
Also, once again, leave WW2 out of this.


When has America ever done that?

Never, because nobody even threatened them seriously after WW2...you're just proving my point here.
Nukes are meant to scare people, not to actually level whole countries...nobody would want that because of the consequences we all know nukes cause...
(sorry for double post, but there is really no other way)

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:00 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 07:50 PM, HeavyTank wrote: Not my fault if you can't read-also, way to go, now I have to argue with two people at once...

So several people have misread what you said, and not one person read it as you intended, but it is our fault?

Listen, stuff like that happens on a daily basis in a lot of countries even today and you don't do shit about it...you didn't "topple the evil regime" just because you didn't like their way of ruling..

Yes, and we are doing our part to eliminate it instead of sitting idly by like you are. I am almost 100% positive that Saddam is no longer in charge.

The character IS the argument..if you talk to someone that is completely stuck-up, you can't really expect to have a fruitful conversation, can you?

So me commenting on Abe Lincolns unkempt nature is a valid argument against the abolition of slavery?

Nice logic. Also, no one is insulting you here, you are the aggressor and we are merely backing up our posts.

And why are you insulting me?Resorting to cheap insults is not really the way to make me agree with you...

Yet you can do the reverse?

Wonderful.

You used Google?

Yes I did. How else was I supposed to look for it? The only shit on the news right now is pointless BS

Sigh...I didn't mean THAT kind of search..and the citizens didn't appear happy on TV, that's a fact...

How didn't they appear happy? I see them going about their lives, living, and a few have praised us. We watched a video in AP Com Gov the other day about what people thought of us, and 8/10 ( believe) agreed with what we are doing, with 1/10 having no comment.

Pick sides in wars they have nothing to do with...

So we were wrong for siding against Hitler? There are causes greater than ourselves out there.

Smartass...

Thank you

Yeah, good excuse...hey, aren't you happy that nobody invaded you?Why the hell are you angry?

Well when you see the only way to attack a country is to invade, that means Pearl Harbor was never attacked. Your definition of the word is horribly flawed, as direct invasion isn't the only way wars are fought anymore. You also ignored the rest of the post I had there.

Nuking a whole country just because some people coming from it are terrorists wouldn't be very wise...

WHICH IS WHY WE INVADED YOU TWIT.

"Hey, I saw a terrorist yesterday..he was wearing a weird hat or something and his skin was brown, so I suppose he's a Muslim..."
"OMFG LETS GO NUKE ALL MUSLIM COUNTRIES"
"YEAH THEY ARE ALL TERRORISTS"

Or how about "The hijackers have direct links to these countries and this terrorist group that is based in xxx runs the country, and their leadership is currently residing their"

You are over simplifying things, a straw-man almost.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:02 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 07:55 PM, HeavyTank wrote: I'm really not in a searchning mood right now...

Burden of proof is on you. You concede that point then.

Nazi Germany would've probably attacked you if they took over Europe..so technically, they were a threat.
Also, once again, leave WW2 out of this.

Yet these radical terrorist groups who have proven that they are willing to commit acts of terrorism against us that yell death to America aren't?

Never, because nobody even threatened them seriously after WW2...you're just proving my point here.
Nukes are meant to scare people, not to actually level whole countries...nobody would want that because of the consequences we all know nukes cause...
(sorry for double post, but there is really no other way)

I don't see your point in all of this. You are saying that no country has invaded us since WW2. That's common fucking knowledge, just because a direct invasion isn't reasonable doesn't mean they aren't a threat.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:04 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 07:55 PM, HeavyTank wrote:
At 6/3/10 07:40 PM, Dubbi wrote: No, your post wasn't as profound as you think it was.
Uh uh.

If you think your posts are intelligent, you're delusional.


Who said we were speaking only military-wise?
..um...I thought we were talking about that...

No... The thread is: Would you die for your country? I'd die for my country because of the noble wars our soldiers died for, and because we've just been a great nation. The absence of any crucial modern wars doesn't negate the latter...

So you're admitting to being a jerk.
So you admit being wrong.

No, but I do admit that you're a jerk.

Again... No argument -- just America sucks because that's what some people say.
Aaaand so America DOESN'T suck just because THEY say so?Yeah, that's a better argument..OH WAIT.

No, I'm using arguments and logic, while your just puling crap out of your ass. America is great because of our freedoms, economic system, innovation and the valor of our soldiers.


The wars we're in now, are not major.
Can you supply some examples of us "picking sides".
I'm really not in a searchning mood right now...

Then don't argue, retard!


I'm not in the military. Also, a country doesn't have to attack us, for it to be threatening us. If that's the case, Nazi Germany was never a threat.
Nazi Germany would've probably attacked you if they took over Europe..so technically, they were a threat.
Also, once again, leave WW2 out of this.

If we give terrorists a safe-haven, they will attack us. And if a WW2 analogy is relevant, I'm not leaving out just because it would hurt your case.



When has America ever done that?
Never, because nobody even threatened them seriously after WW2...you're just proving my point here.

And what point may that be?

Nukes are meant to scare people, not to actually level whole countries...nobody would want that because of the consequences we all know nukes cause...
(sorry for double post, but there is really no other way)

Again, what's your point. We're not arguing common facts about nukes; we're arguing Iraq, Afghanistan and America as a whole.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:21 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 08:00 PM, RacistBassist wrote: So several people have misread what you said, and not one person read it as you intended, but it is our fault?

(several people-two people-whaaat?) Also, it's not misreading, it's not reading at all.After the example, I clearly stated that "it's pretty much the same with modern armies, but it's done in a more diplomatic way"...you can't understand that?


Yes, and we are doing our part to eliminate it instead of sitting idly by like you are. I am almost 100% positive that Saddam is no longer in charge.

No, you're not.You're just doing your part in some of them, where you have something to gain from it...hey, I didn't say it was bad, but saying that the US army is a pack of Archangels going to save everyone is just...ugh.
And of course I'm sitting idly by, why should I get myself killed because some guys bombed another country?I'm not helping anyone but the army as a physical unit by going to war..

So me commenting on Abe Lincolns unkempt nature is a valid argument against the abolition of slavery?

What?
Let me rephrase what I said: if someone's point of view is absolutist, agruing with him is pointless...
I hope it's clear now..

Nice logic. Also, no one is insulting you here, you are the aggressor and we are merely backing up our posts.

Hm, so saying that I am "mentally lacking" while I didn't even talk to you directly in the previous posts is me being agressive?Waaaait, whaaaat?

Yet you can do the reverse?

Erm, when exactly did I insult you?


Wonderful.

Yup

Yes I did. How else was I supposed to look for it? The only shit on the news right now is pointless BS

Maybe on your news...

How didn't they appear happy? I see them going about their lives, living, and a few have praised us. We watched a video in AP Com Gov the other day about what people thought of us, and 8/10 ( believe) agreed with what we are doing, with 1/10 having no comment.

Oh yeah, a government site is not biased at all.AT ALL, I SAY.
You can't really listen to your own country when it comes to stuff like that..


So we were wrong for siding against Hitler? There are causes greater than ourselves out there.

RRRGHHH!This has to be the third time I say this: "I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT FUCKING WW2.America did its part there./end"

Well when you see the only way to attack a country is to invade, that means Pearl Harbor was never attacked. Your definition of the word is horribly flawed, as direct invasion isn't the only way wars are fought anymore. You also ignored the rest of the post I had there.

Again with WW2?Oh my god....

WHICH IS WHY WE INVADED YOU TWIT.

Indeed...that's what I was saying, no?
Also, someone's losing their temper :D

Or how about "The hijackers have direct links to these countries and this terrorist group that is based in xxx runs the country, and their leadership is currently residing their"

You are over simplifying things, a straw-man almost.

Over-simplifying..maybe, but that's the only way I can make you understand without posting a massive wall of text...

NEEXT!

At 6/3/10 08:04 PM, Dubbi wrote: If you think your posts are intelligent, you're delusional.

Yeah, your replies are so smart that they make my posts look like garbage..I especially like the part where you don't actually reply to my arguments, but you just go "LOL UR RONG".

No... The thread is: Would you die for your country? I'd die for my country because of the noble wars our soldiers died for, and because we've just been a great nation. The absence of any crucial modern wars doesn't negate the latter...

Okay, you're right about the thread part and indeed this whole thing was a bit out of context (not too much though)...so you're saying that you'd die if another WW2 were to happen, and that's fine..but not all wars are noble and just.

No, but I do admit that you're a jerk.

I'M RITE.
NO UR NOT.
YES I AM.
UR A JERK LOLOL I WON.


No, I'm using arguments and logic, while your just puling crap out of your ass. America is great because of our freedoms, economic system, innovation and the valor of our soldiers.

Oh my god, I actually laughed out loud there.

Then don't argue, retard!

Why not?Do I need to post millions of links to prove any point?
Also, for the last time, stop insulting me directly.

If we give terrorists a safe-haven, they will attack us. And if a WW2 analogy is relevant, I'm not leaving out just because it would hurt your case.

It wouldn't hurt my case at all, but I admitted that WW2 is an exception to what I'm talking about, so you shouldn't use it in every single one of your examples.
Indeed there a lot of people died for a just cause, and that's the end of it.

And what point may that be?

Read paragraph below

Nukes are meant to scare people, not to actually level whole countries...nobody would want that because of the consequences we all know nukes cause...
Again, what's your point. We're not arguing common facts about nukes; we're arguing Iraq, Afghanistan and America as a whole.

*facepalm*

Okay, okay, I'm done.
One guy is talking crap, and the other one's in a flame war mood (try to find who is who), and I'm tired of this shit.
Let's just agree to disagreeing and we'll just leave it at that...and, as far as the thread goes, we can pretty much agree on "I'd die, but only if it was a right cause"

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:30 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 08:21 PM, HeavyTank wrote: (several people-two people-whaaat?) Also, it's not misreading, it's not reading at all.After the example, I clearly stated that "it's pretty much the same with modern armies, but it's done in a more diplomatic way"...you can't understand that?

That's still a 100% failure rate. That translates as: Our armies are almost exactly the same, just with a little more diplomacy."

As in, no fucking change with how they operate or their motives.

No, you're not.You're just doing your part in some of them, where you have something to gain from it...hey, I didn't say it was bad, but saying that the US army is a pack of Archangels going to save everyone is just...ugh.

Which is more then you. None of us said anything about our Army being Archangels, but we have good intentions.

And of course I'm sitting idly by, why should I get myself killed because some guys bombed another country?I'm not helping anyone but the army as a physical unit by going to war..

Yeah, who cares about the rest of the world, let them suffer, it's all about me.

What?

An attack on his character, and not his argument.

Let me rephrase what I said: if someone's point of view is absolutist, agruing with him is pointless...

How is that related to the insults, and we are in no ways being absolute in our arguments.

Hm, so saying that I am "mentally lacking" while I didn't even talk to you directly in the previous posts is me being agressive?Waaaait, whaaaat?

No, I said that you threw the first punch so to speak. Yet now that someone insults you back handedly, it is suddenly a great offense

Erm, when exactly did I insult you?

I never said you insulted me. Well, you did, because people dismissing arguments based off of the arguer and not the actual argument only spreads ignorance

Maybe on your news...

Which, as I just sad, had nothing on about it at the moment.

Oh yeah, a government site is not biased at all.AT ALL, I SAY.

Funny thing. It was a Canadian Film Company, and it wasn't a government site. It was people going over there to see the truth.

You can't really listen to your own country when it comes to stuff like that..

OH CANADA!

RRRGHHH!This has to be the third time I say this: "I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT FUCKING WW2.America did its part there./end"

We are putting your logic into a very similar situation. You said, not verbatim, that for us to respond, we should be directly attacked.

Again with WW2?Oh my god....

It is pretty much a perfect example on why your definition is horribly skewed.

Indeed...that's what I was saying, no?
Also, someone's losing their temper :D

So you agree with us?
Nah, CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL

Over-simplifying..maybe, but that's the only way I can make you understand without posting a massive wall of text...

Go for it. I got time. No homework to do tonight.

Why not?Do I need to post millions of links to prove any point?

You need at least some evidence in your claims.

*facepalm*

Right. Because 9/11 so didn't happen because the hijackers were terrified of being nuked into Oblivion, which is why the Twin Towers are still there and Ground Zero wasn't a pile of rubble.

One guy is talking crap, and the other one's in a flame war mood (try to find who is who), and I'm tired of this shit.

Ooh call on me!

Let's just agree to disagreeing and we'll just leave it at that...and, as far as the thread goes, we can pretty much agree on "I'd die, but only if it was a right cause"

The problem is that your "right cause" is only if you are directly attacked, and you don't give a fuck about the rest of the world.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:34 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 08:21 PM, HeavyTank wrote:
At 6/3/10 08:04 PM, Dubbi wrote: If you think your posts are intelligent, you're delusional.
Yeah, your replies are so smart that they make my posts look like garbage..I especially like the part where you don't actually reply to my arguments, but you just go "LOL UR RONG".

I think you're confusing me with you.


No... The thread is: Would you die for your country? I'd die for my country because of the noble wars our soldiers died for, and because we've just been a great nation. The absence of any crucial modern wars doesn't negate the latter...
Okay, you're right about the thread part and indeed this whole thing was a bit out of context (not too much though)...so you're saying that you'd die if another WW2 were to happen, and that's fine..but not all wars are noble and just.

You're missing the point. You've repeatedly bashed America, and I'm giving reasons why America is good. You still haven't rebuted any of my arguments.


No, but I do admit that you're a jerk.
I'M RITE.
NO UR NOT.
YES I AM.
UR A JERK LOLOL I WON.

We're sidetracking -- this side argument is contributing nothing.


No, I'm using arguments and logic, while your just puling crap out of your ass. America is great because of our freedoms, economic system, innovation and the valor of our soldiers.
Oh my god, I actually laughed out loud there.

Again, I'm right because I say so. Give actual arguments!!!

Then don't argue, retard!
Why not?Do I need to post millions of links to prove any point?
Also, for the last time, stop insulting me directly.

No, but if you can't come up with your own arguments, links may help.
Fine I'll stop. But for the record, this was the first time you told me to stop insulting you.


If we give terrorists a safe-haven, they will attack us. And if a WW2 analogy is relevant, I'm not leaving out just because it would hurt your case.
It wouldn't hurt my case at all, but I admitted that WW2 is an exception to what I'm talking about, so you shouldn't use it in every single one of your examples.

Again you're missing the point! I'm relating Germany having a safe-haven to attack us from, if we didn't invade them until the attack began, to terrorists having a safe haven in Iraq and Afghanistan to attack us from, if won't them eliminate them.

Indeed there a lot of people died for a just cause, and that's the end of it.

And what point may that be?
Read paragraph below

Fine


Nukes are meant to scare people, not to actually level whole countries...nobody would want that because of the consequences we all know nukes cause...
Again, what's your point. We're not arguing common facts about nukes; we're arguing Iraq, Afghanistan and America as a whole.
*facepalm*

You never explained your point...


Okay, okay, I'm done.
One guy is talking crap, and the other one's in a flame war mood (try to find who is who), and I'm tired of this shit.

More personal attacks, without giving arguments,

Let's just agree to disagreeing and we'll just leave it at that...and, as far as the thread goes, we can pretty much agree on "I'd die, but only if it was a right cause"

There's more to discuss, which we have yet to resolve...


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:34 PM Reply

At 6/1/10 05:06 PM, MiroDK wrote: I'd die defending my country, not attacking another one.

Me too. I am into the defensive, not offensive.

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:37 PM Reply

At 6/1/10 05:06 PM, MiroDK wrote: I'd die defending my country, not attacking another one.

Sometimes there one in the same, my friend.


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:44 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 08:30 PM, RacistBassist wrote:
As in, no fucking change with how they operate or their motives.

That's a whole other story, and it's not really related to this thread, so I'll just drop it.


Which is more then you. None of us said anything about our Army being Archangels, but we have good intentions.

Depends on your point of view..the country being attacked certainly doesn't think that you have "good intentons"

Yeah, who cares about the rest of the world, let them suffer, it's all about me.

If you want to look at things that way, every army ever should go to war with another country just because they don't like the way they do things...

An attack on his character, and not his argument.

Ooh.

How is that related to the insults, and we are in no ways being absolute in our arguments.

Sure you're not.

No, I said that you threw the first punch so to speak. Yet now that someone insults you back handedly, it is suddenly a great offense

I threw the first punch?Maybe if you're talking about my first post, but I threw it blidnly in the air, not against you specifically...

I never said you insulted me. Well, you did, because people dismissing arguments based off of the arguer and not the actual argument only spreads ignorance

But I wasn't even talking to you!

Funny thing. It was a Canadian Film Company, and it wasn't a government site. It was people going over there to see the truth.

Wait, a site that ends in .gov is not..um......and to think that I googled your site and the first result was an US government site..

OH CANADA!

Canada oh Canada!

It is pretty much a perfect example on why your definition is horribly skewed.

Yeah, all my definitons are skewed, flawed and pointless, and you're always right..wait, didn't you say you weren't an asolutist?

So you agree with us?

I wouldn't want to say yes because I got a bit confused about which point we were talking about...

Nah, CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL

HELL YEA

Go for it. I got time. No homework to do tonight.

I don't, it's obscenely late here...I'm struggling to keep my eyes open to read the posts :(

The problem is that your "right cause" is only if you are directly attacked, and you don't give a fuck about the rest of the world.

Meh, everyone does this, but in different degrees...some people consider some acts as "directly attacking", some people don't.
And I'd greatly appreciate it if you responded by PM (if you indeed want to respond, I won't be offended if you don't) since I won't be visiting this thread anymore...

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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:55 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 08:44 PM, HeavyTank wrote: And I'd greatly appreciate it if you responded by PM (if you indeed want to respond, I won't be offended if you don't) since I won't be visiting this thread anymore...

Why do I get ignored?


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Response to Would you die for your country? Jun. 3rd, 2010 @ 08:56 PM Reply

At 6/3/10 08:44 PM, HeavyTank wrote: Depends on your point of view..the country being attacked certainly doesn't think that you have "good intentons"

The women praising our soldiers for eliminating Saddam say otherwise.

If you want to look at things that way, every army ever should go to war with another country just because they don't like the way they do things...

That is completely different than eliminating leaders who violate basic human rights.

Sure you're not.

How am I not? I admitted Vietnam was so fucked up, I am merely saying that what we are doing in the Middle East is good

I threw the first punch?Maybe if you're talking about my first post, but I threw it blidnly in the air, not against you specifically...

Which still makes you the agressor

But I wasn't even talking to you!

Ok and? That doesn't excuse you from your ignorance.

Wait, a site that ends in .gov is not..um......and to think that I googled your site and the first result was an US government site..

Ap Com Gov is a class you fuck wit. As in "Advanced Placement Comparative Government."

Yeah, all my definitons are skewed, flawed and pointless, and you're always right..wait, didn't you say you weren't an asolutist?

I only said that about your definition of what it takes for a country to be considered it attacked now didn't I?

I don't, it's obscenely late here...I'm struggling to keep my eyes open to read the posts :(

Nice argument. "I really meant this but I'm to lazy to tell you"

Meh, everyone does this, but in different degrees...some people consider some acts as "directly attacking", some people don't.

A crime against humanity is an attack on all

And I'd greatly appreciate it if you responded by PM (if you indeed want to respond, I won't be offended if you don't) since I won't be visiting this thread anymore...

May I explain why you won't? Tired of the embarrassment?


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