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At 6/5/10 09:18 PM, Drakim wrote: You just provided a reason as to why they might not want to give up their boat peacefully. That means the only logical conclusion isn't that there was weapons and such onboard.

I am not sure you got my point. I am not saying that the ships carried rockets or guns, I am only saying that Israel couldn't have known that before checking. That is why we couldn't let them sail to Gaza. Besides, I said that my conclusion was they wanted to cause a provocation, not that they had weapons and such on board.

Then why say bullshit like that Israel was forced to do it in international waters? That was the argument you were making!

It is nice of you to read the first two words and ignore the rest. I said that it really isn't an argument not here nor there. We did have the legitimation to invade the ships both outside of our territorial waters, and inside our territorial waters. I just don't understand why we had to do this outside, and provide our enemies with another silly argument.

No, look at the picture. They are clearly kitchen knives (and the odd tool knife and seremony knife). I have the very brands on that picture in my kitchen.

They weren't kitchen knives, but it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is what they intended to do with those knives, and they intended to stab our troops.

The thing is, when there are violent protests in the streets, with rocks being thrown and whatnot, the police just don't start massacring the protesters with real ammo. The soldiers have every right to defend themselves, but they are going to have to accept that they will get some heat from it.

It is not that same thing. We had to invade those ships to stop them from breaking the blockade. The activists immediately attacked them, the moment they got on the ship. The soldiers had rifles, and so they protected themselves with rifles. OF course we will equip our troops with rifles, and not kitchen knives, because then there would be a lot more deaths on both sides.

hamas stopping aid to gaza

At 6/6/10 10:39 AM, satanbrain wrote: hamas stopping aid to gaza

I'm also sick of Hamas.They might as well accept Israel.Even though there are an understandably lot of people upset with Israels latest string of controversial actions,Hamas is just digging it's own grave.

At 6/6/10 11:11 AM, SouthAsian wrote: I'm also sick of Hamas.They might as well accept Israel.Even though there are an understandably lot of people upset with Israels latest string of controversial actions,Hamas is just digging it's own grave.

I think that the minute the hamas accepts Israel and decides the best way to solve the problem is the two states solution, this whole situation will be resolved pretty quickly. The only problem is that the Palestinian leadership (and sometimes our leadership as well) never really wanted to solve this, and if it did, it has never been strong enough, and never really represented the Palestinian people. Instead, the hamas keeps firing missiles at our direction, targeting civilians. It is really hard negotiating with an enemy that does that.

I would like to say , since when this territory became israel because to 1.5 billion Muslims and to hundreds of millions of Arabs consider it the Occupied Palestinian Land, your media and press give you little truths and information. Why do many people around the world support Gaza including European countries ? I say because they are human beings they eat, breath, sleep and LIVE ! And your news tell you and brain-wash you about Terrorism in the occupied lands.... well JIHAD isnt a crime and God told us to do it to self defend ourselves... lets say if Arabs go to america and blow towers yes this is terrorism because the majority isnt presented by the minority and if any country invades America for 50 years and american people fight for their rights, this is legal and invaders are those who terrorize people should be kicked, even if the americans (for example) have been fighting for 100 years , it remains their soil and their right. I am sure that you (western people) have no idea how israel came to the middle east, most of you only cared about living with no need to know about what is going behind the stage.

I must say that the TV news channel Al-jazeera is (lets be realistic) 95% honest about what it broadcasts, so no need to use street language here and politics isnt making fun of others to prove a point, that would be childish (excuse me).

Know Arabs, Know Islam, Know the Fact ... then judge it your way.

And for those who say that Hamas is terrorists' organization ... i would like to say that they are breaking the seige and want to live as safe as you do behind your screen. Who doesnt want peace. Even Israeli people want peace, the israeli government and some israeli people want this massacres to happen. What do u know about 1948 1967 ?!?! You know nothing and I am a bit surprised that the first guys to justify Israeli actions are israeli people, and some have an opened mind to be discussed.

My grand dad lived in Palestine and my parents were carried out by military forces of israel out of their own land when they were kids. I say Britain promised Hertzil and guys like him a land to establish israel and that land had to be Palestine?! I wonder why they didnt offer them a land in europe? is it not big enough ? or they knew that Israel will have bad consequences where they will settle ? though wanted to get them as far as possible?

All in all, i would just that people (especially western civilizations) to understand the facts... put no links or read them all... because the Fact is a matter of relativity.

I wish one day that i enter a chat room and when I identify myself as an Arabic person... people won't ask : do u have computers? do u ride camels in the city? do u have roofs covering ur tents?

I mean we are normal people, and arabs are not as shown in american movies stupid,dirty and are only looking for free girls. I guess that such guys exist more between other nations (no specifications).

Palestine is the land of prophets -god bless them all- -and wishing to be with them in paradise-

Thank you all for reading,
Specail Thanks to newgrounds.com for letting us to speak freely!

Peace...

At 6/6/10 06:15 PM, Taz92 wrote: Peace...

I sure hope there will be.

... so.. taz92.. you really think that stating that god told us that Jihad is a great way to defend ourselves will further .. oh man I am not going to bother.

listen to me brother... many times Palestinians and arabs agreed to many peace agreements...but it happens that Israel manipulate and break such agreements.

What has been taken by blood, wont be retaken by any other thing.
Lets say we all have enemies... let's admit it... but when israel takes pictures and videos from Palestinian massacres and edit them making palestinian children wear jewish hats and claim that Hamas does that to them... unfortunately this picture about Islam and arabs will reamin as terrorist.

I would like to imagine America (for example) signing a peace contract with Russia (for example) after Russian military has occupied 90% of America.

And to my friend who says something i dont get about jihad... All nations perform "Jihad" , i dont know what you have been told about it, but its only a way to defend your country,people and your dignity . But because its called Jihad people started to exclude it from any kind of self defence.

You might tell me now that arabs and muslims kill innocent people... well i dont agree with that as long as you dont agree on arabs' and muslims' women,children and elder people being killed in palestine, afghanistan, iraq and many other regions.

We the religions with books have many things in common, unfortunately we dont know alot about each other... Jesus -peace and blessings upon him- ordered people to be peaceful and respect each other, as well as Moses and Mohammad -peace and blessings upon them- , and all of them had taken damage and got hurt to enlighten people, and they resisted to do the right thing.

Jihad means in Arabic " the fight to do what's right obeying God".

thanks for reading.

At 6/7/10 02:15 AM, Taz92 wrote: listen to me brother... many times Palestinians and arabs agreed to many peace agreements...but it happens that Israel manipulate and break such agreements.

peace agreements they came up with, like having all israel for peace.

What has been taken by blood, wont be retaken by any other thing.
making palestinian children wear jewish hats and claim that Hamas does that to them...

do you even know what a jewish hat is? kids don't wear them, adults do.

I would like to imagine America (for example) signing a peace contract with Russia (for example) after Russian military has occupied 90% of America.

America is not the homeland of russians.

And to my friend who says something i dont get about jihad... All nations perform "Jihad" , i dont know what you have been told about it, but its only a way to defend your country,people and your dignity . But because its called Jihad people started to exclude it from any kind of self defence.

defend by bombing yourself up in a bus?

You might tell me now that arabs and muslims kill innocent people... well i dont agree with that as long as you dont agree on arabs' and muslims' women,children and elder people being killed in palestine, afghanistan, iraq and many other regions.

by arabs, yes. for not obeying the chauvinist laws, contact with jews or just out of rage.

We the religions with books have many things in common, unfortunately we dont know alot about each other... Jesus -peace and blessings upon him- ordered people to be peaceful and respect each other, as well as Moses and Mohammad -peace and blessings upon them- , and all of them had taken damage and got hurt to enlighten people, and they resisted to do the right thing.

Mohammad? that's a lie. mohammad killed hundreds of jews.

Jihad means in Arabic " the fight to do what's right obeying God".

when god tells to kill whoever you want.

I think your nick name justifies you racist answers.And before you say something about a Mohammad -peace and blessings upon him- you must know the history well before you say that he killed 100s of Jews, Jews at that time broke every peace contract they had with muslims, and tried to kill Mohammad -peace and blessings upon him- many times.

Please comment in a justifying way, not in two words with no meaning.
And by the way, the link you posted about Gaza is not a trustful source of information, do you really think that israel have good intentions in helping Gaza? Hamas is an elected organization by the people and when you say that Hamas prevents supplies this makes nonsense because Hamas isnt just 20-30 people, it is the voice of free palestinians.

And just tell me why israel is trying to destroy The Aqsa Mosque ? Why they are pumping acids in its infrastructure?

I am really sorry if I said something not true about Jew hats, but I know you got my point, right?
Mohammad al dorra and his father who were cornered by israel military forces and were left to die, were presented to the world as Jews being killed by palestinians.

Racism is a problem mate!

Thanks again.

More news relating to Israel.

Helen Thomas a veteran White House reporter for several decades when asked about her opinion on Israel said that "they should get the hell out of Palestine.To go back to Germany and Poland."

She resigned over the comments.Very interesting to say the least.

At 6/7/10 04:20 PM, SouthAsian wrote: Helen Thomas a veteran White House reporter for several decades when asked about her opinion on Israel said that "they should get the hell out of Palestine.To go back to Germany and Poland."

I can understand Germany, Germany is in the world cup, but the the hell will we do in Poland? See the wonderful variety of Ghettos?

At 6/7/10 04:52 PM, Lidov wrote:

At 6/7/10 04:20 PM, SouthAsian wrote: Helen Thomas a veteran White House reporter for several decades when asked about her opinion on Israel said that "they should get the hell out of Palestine.To go back to Germany and Poland."

I can understand Germany, Germany is in the world cup, but the the hell will we do in Poland? See the wonderful variety of Ghettos?

One thing is sure,she sure was irresponsible, and un professional.She should know now that her position requires neutrality,and fairness.But I guess human emotion can get the best of people also.

At 6/6/10 07:03 PM, mloloya1 wrote: ... so.. taz92.. you really think that stating that god told us that Jihad is a great way to defend ourselves will further .. oh man I am not going to bother.

Good idea. He's a troll.
And even if he isn't, this thread isn't about the formation and legitimacy of the Israeli state.

At 6/6/10 07:27 AM, Slizor wrote: Why do you have to drag me into creating a contending narrative? I was happy with a factual discussion, but you keep on presenting analysis/opinion as fact.

What good is an analytical approach that makes no attempt to distinguish what is likely and unlikely to be true? Sure, anything's possible, just like it is theoretically possible that my hand could sink into this keyboard because trillions of charged subatomic particles just happen to be arranged in the right way for a split second. While you may not want to present a narrative, I do, and if you want to dispute it, you have to do more than simply point out uncertainties. You have to provide plausible alternatives.

I was actually talking about the wider narrative overlay, i.e. the entire Israeli argument. People don't watch these videos prior to hearing the Israeli side of the story and so their interpretation of the videos is guided by the Israeli narrative overlay. This manner of working denies the capacity for independent analysis of the events (particularly as we still don't have full footage!)

Thankfully, we are both perceptive people and don't have to worry about being taken in by implications related to presentation.
We have the actual, though incomplete, footage to look at. I'm saying that there's enough available to show that the soldiers were attacked before they even had a chance to set foot on the deck, and generally validates the violent response. The truth behind the activists' description of events lies in certain Israeli actions that, given the footage, just don't make sense and aren't very compelling.

Do you really think that highly trained commandos, doubtless trained to be as effective killing machines as possible and work without being repulsed by killing, are, in a violent situation, capable of turning their training off?

That leads to the argument of whether the degree of force was justified, not whether it was necessary at all or if the activists had been provoked to violence as they claim. All I care about in this argument is the first cause.

2. Apart from your assumption that there was no other possible way of removing the threat, that's exactly my point. Israel can't benefit from the release of this information, so it is withholding it. It is only giving supporting documentation (which it controls the majority of) that supports its version of events.

The video provides definite proof of certain events as well as probable explanations for others. Probability, not absolute certainty, is the key.

A corollary to 2.: The footage could prove that the people were shot for no legitimate reason - supporting the accounts of the peace activists. Hence, it has not been released.

But that's not the only possible reason it is being withheld, as I explained in the last post. Not releasing it isn't proof of guilt.

Not necessarily not boarding them, although despite your claims I imagine they could have crippled the Mavi Marmara and towed that.

They may find that less risky the next time they encounter a crowded boat. I have no doubt that Israel still would have gotten hell for "attacking a ship in international waters" and risking the sinking of the ship (something can always go wrong).

However, there were many choices in the manner in which they chose to board them, the team they decided to send (which was trained for combat, not crowd control), the weapons given to the soldiers (was live ammunition really necessary? There's a good reason why riot police don't have live ammunition.)

The Israelis apparently thought paint guns would be enough to deal with any troublemakers, and while getting hit by a paintball stings, it's far less demoralizing than being hit with a rubber bullet, or a bean bag, or a tazer. If the Israelis had expected resistance, they would have used one of those weapons. It probably didn't even occur to them that they might have to use their sidearms or that there would be so much fighting that they could be disarmed.
Risky planning? Possibly. Encouraging a massacre? Not at all.

There's no way to argue away or ignore the inherent risk of confronting heavily armed groups, even if it is done peacefully.

Who says they expected them to be heavily armed?

I think our pronouns got mixed. I meant to say that they activists knew they would encounter a military force which by definition is armed.

Ships on international waters are under the jurisdiction of the country's flag they fly. By conducting this operation in international waters they overstepped their jurisdiction.

Not according to experts.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65 133D20100602
The one caveat in that link is the requirement that the ship must be bound for hostile territory.
Which they were:
http://gazafreedommarch.org/cms/en/News/
View/10-05-28
/Israel_s_Disinformation_Campaign_Agains t_the_Gaza_Freedom_Flotilla.aspxd
Lol, they must be kicking themselves now.

A more educated guess about international waters is that their establishement was slow, piecemeal and thus lacked any particular raison d'etra. Furthermore, since international waters have long been established, the norms and laws that surround them could have significantly altered the justifications for their continued existence.

A solid paragraph that conveys absolutely no meaningful information.

Actually the fleet organisers did not declare that their intent was to help an enemy. Their intent was to deliver aid to the Gazans.

And if people never lied, they just may have been allowed to. Even aid ships have to submit to inspection when requested by parties involved in conflict. (See number 48 in Section III)
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509 e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c12 5641f002d49ce

yes u might be correct my friend this link isnt about israel legitimacy , but isnt it all about this?!

enough said... because i thought i would discuss such ideas with open minded people...
who actually give actual reasons.

I might not be here always to discuss further comments, excuse me, its becoming boring and time consuming!

thanks,
peace...

Well it looks like Israel is easing up on the blockade a bit. They (Israel) will now allow certain items (canned fruit, potato chips, candy, juice, pop) to once again flow across the border into Gaza.

Chips and pop? Really? What on earth were the Israelis afraid of?

At 6/9/10 09:14 AM, bcdemon wrote: Well it looks like Israel is easing up on the blockade a bit. They (Israel) will now allow certain items (canned fruit, potato chips, candy, juice, pop) to once again flow across the border into Gaza.

Chips and pop? Really? What on earth were the Israelis afraid of?

They somehow thought that denying the Palestinians these things would make the people dislike Hamas. Yeah, I don't follow the logic, but the people weren't starved to death, just made less than comfortable.

This entire thing has been an attempt to weaken Hamas.

At 6/9/10 09:21 AM, gumOnShoe wrote: This entire thing has been an attempt to weaken Hamas.

And an attempt to stop the flow of weaponry into the strip, and it seems to have worked just fine. It is only reasonable that everything that goes into the strip must undergo an examination, but I don't think they don't have enough food there. Israel has always allowed the red cross, and similar organizations to supply Gaza with aid, and food.

At 6/9/10 09:21 AM, gumOnShoe wrote: They somehow thought that denying the Palestinians these things would make the people dislike Hamas.

It conceivably could, while allowing the average Gazan to live comfortably after electing a terrorist organization to power is guaranteed to do nothing.
The key was for Israel to demonstrate that the only way to improve conditions in Gaza was for the citizens to take proactive action against Hamas, rather than simply wait Israel out. Now they've screwed that up and Hamas can claim a minor political success.
All thanks to Europe.

At 6/9/10 06:05 PM, Lidov wrote: And an attempt to stop the flow of weaponry into the strip, and it seems to have worked just fine. It is only reasonable that everything that goes into the strip must undergo an examination, but I don't think they don't have enough food there. Israel has always allowed the red cross, and similar organizations to supply Gaza with aid, and food.

So how does stopping potato chips into Gaza stop the flow of weapons? How does stopping Coriander from getting into Gaza stop the flow of weapons? It doesn't, but what it does do is make the people of Gaza seem more like prisoners than they actually already are. Israel has blocked the shipment of concrete to Gaza, after the incredible destruction Israel caused they prevent the Gazans from rebuilding.

At 6/11/10 08:55 AM, bcdemon wrote: So how does stopping potato chips into Gaza stop the flow of weapons?

To be fair, stopping packaged items does make smuggling more difficult. Their justification for the cement thing was that it could be used to build bunkers, which is obviously a trumped-up reason. They're just trying to give the impression that the civilians will never be able to recover until Hamas gives up, in order to weaken Hamas influence in the area.

I'd say that these actions aren't justified, but if people are already going to say that war is okay, then I'm not going to begrudge them a cement blockade. There is no such thing as a fair and civilized war.

At 6/11/10 08:55 AM, bcdemon wrote: So how does stopping potato chips into Gaza stop the flow of weapons? How does stopping Coriander from getting into Gaza stop the flow of weapons? It doesn't, but what it does do is make the people of Gaza seem more like prisoners than they actually already are. Israel has blocked the shipment of concrete to Gaza, after the incredible destruction Israel caused they prevent the Gazans from rebuilding.

As I said, stopping the potato chips, and other luxuries into the strip is an attempt to punish the Gazans and the Hamas for the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit, and for the firing of missiles in Israel's direction. It is supposed to weaken the Hamas. I am not sure it is the right attitude, but it is the logic behind that.

At 6/6/10 08:21 AM, Lidov wrote:

At 6/5/10 09:18 PM, Drakim wrote: You just provided a reason as to why they might not want to give up their boat peacefully. That means the only logical conclusion isn't that there was weapons and such onboard.

I am not sure you got my point. I am not saying that the ships carried rockets or guns, I am only saying that Israel couldn't have known that before checking. That is why we couldn't let them sail to Gaza. Besides, I said that my conclusion was they wanted to cause a provocation, not that they had weapons and such on board.

The "weapons" aren't anything you wouldn't find on a cruise ship. Israel has yet to release any video of what happened prior to the attack.

At 6/6/10 08:21 AM, Lidov wrote:

Then why say bullshit like that Israel was forced to do it in international waters? That was the argument you were making!

It is nice of you to read the first two words and ignore the rest. I said that it really isn't an argument not here nor there. We did have the legitimation to invade the ships both outside of our territorial waters, and inside our territorial waters. I just don't understand why we had to do this outside, and provide our enemies with another silly argument.

Why wait?

At 6/6/10 08:21 AM, Lidov wrote:

No, look at the picture. They are clearly kitchen knives (and the odd tool knife and seremony knife). I have the very brands on that picture in my kitchen.

They weren't kitchen knives, but it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is what they intended to do with those knives, and they intended to stab our troops.

No, first off its not smart in any sense of the word to group the entire crew together into one group "Muslims Extremists" because that simply isn't true, there were European lawyers even a Holocaust survivor on the aid ship, with this we also find out that the crew also TOOK THE SOLDIERS AND TREATED THEIR WOUNDS

Here are pic's
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/
galerithumbs/20100606/id_55_43d9cb4f.jpg
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/
galerithumbs/20100606/id_55_d8caff39.jpg
http://posterous.com/getfile/files.poste rous.com/aliabunimah/932LeBawQiyxgbXwuhW caA6nN9LbZ6yQCaBNxJhewRhZQ8PMSFokdztVcZN m/30845_415441354208_693534208_4.jpg
http://posterous.com/getfile/files.poste rous.com/aliabunimah/G7H6I6GZFls7sEkQXxX Cfoy8253rfSFOeNCkhHwrKveNlKiTTVI8iCZdHfS x/id_55_b630b488.jpg
http://posterous.com/getfile/files.poste rous.com/temp-2010-06-06/CnbfecGlBvxrIvz ubeiJoEBcIitnHzwjEjzauixoxwgnFEGxIIbAgIl odqGE/5.jpg.scaled500.jpg
http://posterous.com/getfile/files.poste rous.com/temp-2010-06-06/hlojsawcooEJqnu CGjcynuijFCkkFpjlbDaBlzbsIjHqtaIIzBokell jFbot/4.jpg.scaled500.jpg

At 6/6/10 08:21 AM, Lidov wrote:

The thing is, when there are violent protests in the streets, with rocks being thrown and whatnot, the police just don't start massacring the protesters with real ammo. The soldiers have every right to defend themselves, but they are going to have to accept that they will get some heat from it.

It is not that same thing. We had to invade those ships to stop them from breaking the blockade. The activists immediately attacked them, the moment they got on the ship. The soldiers had rifles, and so they protected themselves with rifles. OF course we will equip our troops with rifles, and not kitchen knives, because then there would be a lot more deaths on both sides.

Yet we've seen much more violent riots in city streets which had much less people shot dead or wounded, in this case 3 of the dead were thrown overboard. We also don't know what happened prior to the attack again.

At 6/6/10 11:11 AM, SouthAsian wrote:

At 6/6/10 10:39 AM, satanbrain wrote: hamas stopping aid to gaza

I'm also sick of Hamas.They might as well accept Israel.Even though there are an understandably lot of people upset with Israels latest string of controversial actions,Hamas is just digging it's own grave.

Its the last good thing they've done, about what 10% of the initial aid actually goes into Palestine, the stuff that they can't get through the blockade Hamas smuggles into Gaza, Israel is digging its own grave with the blockade in this case.

At 6/11/10 03:47 PM, Warforger wrote: The "weapons" aren't anything you wouldn't find on a cruise ship. Israel has yet to release any video of what happened prior to the attack.

Maybe the weapons weren't unusual objects. Hell, you can even find a gun on a cruise ship. But there is no denying that these weapons, which you can find on any cruise ship, were used to attack Israeli soldiers. I don't care that this knife is a kitchen knife, they used this kitchen knife in order to kill the soldiers.
And I don't really understand what you mean by prior to the attack, because Israel has released footage of the soldiers who boarded the ship from the helicopter. The footage clearly shows the soldiers were attacked the moment they got on the ship. Here is a link

Why wait?

Why wait what?

No, first off its not smart in any sense of the word to group the entire crew together into one group "Muslims Extremists" because that simply isn't true, there were European lawyers even a Holocaust survivor on the aid ship, with this we also find out that the crew also TOOK THE SOLDIERS AND TREATED THEIR WOUNDS

I never said they were all Muslim extremists. Those who attacked the Israeli soldiers are the only activists I have a problem with, and they are mostly Muslim extremists. I assure you we didn't kill a single holocaust survivor, or any one of the good souls who treated our soldiers wounds.

Here are pic's
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/
galerithumbs/20100606/id_55_43d9cb4f.jpg
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/
galerithumbs/20100606/id_55_d8caff39.jpg
http://posterous.com/getfile/files.poste rous.com/aliabunimah/932LeBawQiyxgbXwuhW caA6nN9LbZ6yQCaBNxJhewRhZQ8PMSFokdztVcZN m/30845_415441354208_693534208_4.jpg
http://posterous.com/getfile/files.poste rous.com/aliabunimah/G7H6I6GZFls7sEkQXxX Cfoy8253rfSFOeNCkhHwrKveNlKiTTVI8iCZdHfS x/id_55_b630b488.jpg
http://posterous.com/getfile/files.poste rous.com/temp-2010-06-06/CnbfecGlBvxrIvz ubeiJoEBcIitnHzwjEjzauixoxwgnFEGxIIbAgIl odqGE/5.jpg.scaled500.jpg
http://posterous.com/getfile/files.poste rous.com/temp-2010-06-06/hlojsawcooEJqnu CGjcynuijFCkkFpjlbDaBlzbsIjHqtaIIzBokell jFbot/4.jpg.scaled500.jpg

Hey, I believe you, you don't have to post that many links.

Yet we've seen much more violent riots in city streets which had much less people shot dead or wounded, in this case 3 of the dead were thrown overboard. We also don't know what happened prior to the attack again.

Which city? Are you talking about NY? Because I heard it is not as violent as it used to be. Or in other words, I don't understand what the hell you are talking about. Which city? What do you mean by prior to the attack? Who is the greatest Talk show host of 2009?

Its the last good thing they've done, about what 10% of the initial aid actually goes into Palestine, the stuff that they can't get through the blockade Hamas smuggles into Gaza, Israel is digging its own grave with the blockade in this case.