Ship to Gaza

[Sajberhippien]

The convoy of ships carrying 10 000 tons of supplies of medicine, food and materials for rebuilding Gaza has now been attacked by Israel on international water. 14-16 dead activists and the rest prisoners.

What do you think of Israels actions, and what do you think of the convoy? It should be noted that the supplies in no way included weapons - not even a nail

http://www.shiptogaza.se/en/
http://www.freegaza.org/sv/home/press-re leases/1191-civilians-under-attack-by-is rael
Translated article in swedish paper Svenska Dagbladet

[DonnieDonnie]

They did have weapons and attacked the soldiers with them, one person stole a soldiers gun and used it on the soldiers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotil la_clash

They're not a humanitarian organization, if they really cared then they could have just allowed Israel to bring the aid through (by the way their 10,000 tonnes isn't that much. 15,000 tonnes gets brought in by Israel every week.). But they refused: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKOmLP4yH b4

[DonnieDonnie]

A quick look at who these humanitarians are: http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/05 /flotilla-of-fools.html

[satanbrain]

gaza isn't in hunger! we supply them food and medicine, these ships were full of ammo and even attacked our soldiers!

[Tony-DarkGrave]

good thing this happened who knows how long those terrorist convoys have been suplying gaza under the guise of activism.

[DonnieDonnie]

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/05 /peace-activists-with-guns-ihh.html

[Jewelz123]

At 5/31/10 03:44 AM, DonnieDonnie wrote: They did have weapons and attacked the soldiers with them, one person stole a soldiers gun and used it on the soldiers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotil la_clash

They're not a humanitarian organization, if they really cared then they could have just allowed Israel to bring the aid through (by the way their 10,000 tonnes isn't that much. 15,000 tonnes gets brought in by Israel every week.). But they refused: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKOmLP4yH b4

Do you honestly believe that Israel's support of 15000 per week as you have quoted justifies both the existance of the Israeli state aswell as the actions the hostile action they have taken over the years to surrounding nations? The zionist, banking elite operating from all over the globe are successfully manipulating their way into power behind closed doors. I have nothing against the Israeli people but the way it has come about into existence, just come on man, something is not right here.

[DonnieDonnie]

Durr NWO and lizards keep going.

Anyway lol read this and look at the pictures of the strange guns: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,
L-3896796,00.html

They had paintball guns but were brutally attacked by the activists and had to pull out pistols.

[Dubbi]

Even the soldiers were attacked, I still think Israel overreacted -- all this is going to do is increase anti-semetic sentiment. I'm sure the soldiers could have prevented the death of 10 civilians.

[adrshepard]

At 5/31/10 03:30 AM, Sajberhippien wrote: The convoy of ships carrying 10 000 tons of supplies of medicine, food and materials for rebuilding Gaza has now been attacked by Israel on international water. 14-16 dead activists and the rest prisoners.

Wow. Someone gets his news from Al-Jazeera.
It's 10 dead activists, by the way, as reported by every other news media.

What do you think of Israels actions, and what do you think of the convoy? It should be noted that the supplies in no way included weapons - not even a nail

Because the Palestinian activists said so, and that's good enough for you. Israel even offered to transfer the cargo through the UN after it was inspected, yet that wasn't good enough for the activists.

This event's not even a day old and already you blame everything on Israel.

At 5/31/10 10:13 AM, Dubbi wrote: Even the soldiers were attacked, I still think Israel overreacted -- all this is going to do is increase anti-semetic sentiment. I'm sure the soldiers could have prevented the death of 10 civilians.

How can you possibly think this? Were you there? Could you identify which people needed to be shot and which could have been restrained otherwise? What the hell do you know about less-lethal control techniques? How many people have to die before you conclude the Israelis' overreacted?
I can only imagine you're basing your judgment on some mathematical formula completely isolated from reality.
This is Gaza all over again. Without understanding a single frigging thing about the circumstances, idiots around the world hear about some number of people dead and immediately decide, "that's too many."

[Warforger]

hahahaha, Israel can't make up another bullshit excuse for this, it was an attack on international waters meaning not in Israeli waters.

At 5/31/10 06:15 AM, satanbrain wrote: gaza isn't in hunger! we supply them food and medicine, these ships were full of ammo and even attacked our soldiers!

THe UN says that 61% of the people are "food insecure"

[adrshepard]

At 5/31/10 01:11 PM, Warforger wrote: hahahaha, Israel can't make up another bullshit excuse for this, it was an attack on international waters meaning not in Israeli waters.

Of course they are international waters, retard. What do you think a blockade is, the interception of ships heading to one's own ports? What difference does the location of the ships have anyway?

Israel is blockading Gaza.
The ships were heading towards Gaza with the stated intention of running the blockade.
Israel said it would stop them.
The ships went anyway.
Israel intercepted the ships and its boarding crews were attacked.
The soldiers attacked back and people died.

What other way could it have happened? Whatever your position on the justification of the blockade, playing chicken with a foreign military is asking for an incident. The aid vessels' leaders knew that, yet put jeopardized the well being of their crew and passengers by pressing forward anyway. It is unfortunate, but the aid ships forced the Israeli hand. Obeying orders even though it may require violent action is exactly what militaries do. Entering into a dangerous situation with no plan other than "they wouldn't dare hurt us" is stupid and irresponsible.

[adrshepard]

Conclusive evidence that passengers attacked Israeli soldiers. Check the video at the bottom.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnew s/article-1282802/Israeli-forces-kill-19 -people-carrying-aid-ship-Gaza.html

[Dubbi]

At 5/31/10 01:34 PM, adrshepard wrote: Of course they are international waters, retard.

No one is going to want to argue with you, if you issue unjustified personal atttacks...

[Shayel]

I really want to know what do you think Israel should have done.
What do you think would have happen to a convoy of ships sailing toward the USA, for example, without the authorization of the US government. If I'd set sail tomorrow toward Turkey with nothing but food on my ship, do you think the Turkish army will just let me dock wherever I want?

The Israeli forces asked the convoy to dock in Ashdod port and transfer the supplies by land after inspection. isn't that a reasonable demand?

After the ship's personal declined this demands, Israeli forces had no choice but to land on the ship and take over it. And while the Israeli soldiers held paintball guns, they where attacked with clubs, metal rods, knifes and even guns. Anyone want to explain what did so many knifes do on a "peaceful" ship?

This was a well-planed provocation, one of many that we see here all the time. I'm not asking anyone to be on my side, just to check the facts before setting sides.

Listen to the Israeli officer who first contacted the ships
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6jDIQr59 Sk&feature=related

Watch what happened to the first Israeli soldiers who landed on the ship
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJ Wo&feature=player_embedded#!

Israeli Navy Commander Vice Admiral Eliezer Marom Briefs Forces Set to Intercept Gaza Flotilla
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yphfyN0dq i8&feature=related

I would really like you to view this clips and think about what I wrote

[mloloya1]

At 5/31/10 01:41 PM, adrshepard wrote: Conclusive evidence that passengers attacked Israeli soldiers. Check the video at the bottom.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnew s/article-1282802/Israeli-forces-kill-19 -people-carrying-aid-ship-Gaza.html

I bet you no one will even bother looking at it..... Heck, even some of the comments show that some people did not even take a look at the video on the website.

Point is, you might not agree with what Israel is doing and that is fine, but wtf do you expect when the damn military of any country gives you an order to not do something? Heck, I am sure other countries would have done WAY worst than simply kill those that are guilty of attacking the soldiers.

[GronmonSE]

At 5/31/10 01:11 PM, Warforger wrote: hahahaha, Israel can't make up another bullshit excuse for this, it was an attack on international waters meaning not in Israeli waters.

So? The raid was perfectly legal in accordance to international maritime laws.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cach e:CHeU-WU0q0gJ:www.vilp.de/Enpdf/e025.pd f+Helsinki+Principles+on+the+Law+of+Mari time+Neutrality&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEE ShLUqHfLmoirgsNiHvnr-o1Z4bSIh3iW4V5jK2HA kTS5QL0-Fo_aamd1keXdVjo4b5eS0tCxqzhri9SI Tf6pOFBSIkJP11clOAm-wlqqVDsr_nFP9Th-uLiH k5fwQ-Tc141ZDrS&sig=AHIEtbS5YsesQaed3wHb n0aEDgwa_kmaeg

Refer to paragraphs 5.2.1 and 5.2.10.

(Sorry for the longass link, it wasn't working when I tried to link it.

Regarding the deaths of the people on board, you don't attack armed soldiers and expect to live.

Furthermore, Israel made the blockade clear. The fleet refused to heed the warnings, whatever happened was a consequence of this.

Israel's seized ships carrying armaments under civilian cargo disguises before. Better safe than sorry. What do you think the US would have done if an unauthorized ship got close to its waters?

[satanbrain]

thank you.

[Shayel]

GronmonSE, Your link is broken. I'd love to get the right one please :)

[Musician]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn-l_JltC B4

The video clearly shows that Israel fired on the ships (with live rounds) before boarding them. In light of this, any action taken on the boarding commandos can be viewed as legitimate self defense. Furthermore, no weapons were found inside of the flotillas' cargo holds, so allegations that they were delivering weapons and munitions to terrorist factions in Gaza are false.

[JohnnyWang]

At 5/31/10 06:15 AM, satanbrain wrote: gaza isn't in hunger! we supply them food and medicine, these ships were full of ammo and even attacked our soldiers!

HAH.

Also, Israel solves problems with violence, what else is new?

[GronmonSE]

At 5/31/10 03:24 PM, Shayel wrote: GronmonSE, Your link is broken. I'd love to get the right one please :)

I keep getting an error.

Google "Helsinki Principles on the law of maritime neutrality".

@Above poster: Video is loading really slow. Might comment on it later.

[Shayel]

At 5/31/10 03:24 PM, Musician wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn-l_JltC B4

The video clearly shows that Israel fired on the ships (with live rounds) before boarding them. In light of this, any action taken on the boarding commandos can be viewed as legitimate self defense. Furthermore, no weapons were found inside of the flotillas' cargo holds, so allegations that they were delivering weapons and munitions to terrorist factions in Gaza are false.

No it's not. Where did you "clearly" see anything fired at the ships before the boarding? He's talking about a white flag being raised but you can't raise a white flag while attacking soldiers and expect them to just stand there.

The fact that there was no weapons on the ship means nothing- how could the IDF know it in advance if the convoy's personal refused to let it check the cargo?

[Warforger]

At 5/31/10 01:34 PM, adrshepard wrote:

At 5/31/10 01:11 PM, Warforger wrote: hahahaha, Israel can't make up another bullshit excuse for this, it was an attack on international waters meaning not in Israeli waters.

Of course they are international waters, retard. What do you think a blockade is, the interception of ships heading to one's own ports? What difference does the location of the ships have anyway?

It would however make perfect sense to attack them on ISRAELI WATERS, not INTERNATIONAL waters.

Its like that time when Israeli aircraft and ships sunk a US ship after they confirmed that it was a US ship on international waters.

[Musician]

At 5/31/10 03:42 PM, Shayel wrote: No it's not. Where did you "clearly" see anything fired at the ships before the boarding?

Right at the beginning of the video you can see injured civilians, who have been shot. This was chronologically before the boarding of the ship.

[JohnnyWang]

Also, a freight ship in the middle of the Israeli navy, you know, a branch of the strongest military power in the region starts firing at them?? Yeah sure, and if you believe that, I have a bridge you could buy.

At 5/31/10 08:03 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: good thing this happened who knows how long those terrorist convoys have been suplying gaza under the guise of activism.

Except you know, this was the first attempt, it was made in broad daylight, and it had several European politicians on board vouching no weapons were present.

[adrshepard]

At 5/31/10 03:43 PM, Musician wrote:

At 5/31/10 03:42 PM, Shayel wrote: No it's not. Where did you "clearly" see anything fired at the ships before the boarding?

Right at the beginning of the video you can see injured civilians, who have been shot. This was chronologically before the boarding of the ship.

Been shot? Are you kidding me? Do you see any bullet wounds on them? I don't. In fact, they look like older men who may have been pushed around and trampled during a panic of some sort.
Don't you think the reporter would have said "gunshot wounds" and not "injuries?"
I don't see any bullet holes, either, or any footage of the tear-gas or stun grenades that the reporter claims have been fired from Israeli helicopters.
How would they even get to be shot, anyway? Israeli soldiers fire small arms randomly onto the boat, then send guys over with paintball guns? Does that make any sense at all?

It's pathetic how easily you've been taken in by this.

At 5/31/10 03:51 PM, JohnnyWang wrote: Except you know, this was the first attempt, it was made in broad daylight, and it had several European politicians on board vouching no weapons were present.

Oh well, then it's totally all right then, isn't it? Why should Israel take any action to check what goes in and out of Gaza when it has the word of "European politicians" to go by?

At 5/31/10 03:43 PM, Warforger wrote: It would however make perfect sense to attack them on ISRAELI WATERS, not INTERNATIONAL waters.

They weren't headed for ISRAELI WATERS, but for GAZA WATERS, in which the Israeli navy has no presence. Would you rather that the Israelis violate Gaza waters to enforce the blockade? Do you think that wouldn't start a greater conflict, as has every previous perceived violation (it was an Israeli raid on a tunnel on the Gaza side of the border that sparked the recent campaign).

What is your agenda, here? You're looking for reasons why Israel in the wrong and ignoring every piece of evidence that shows the Turkish ships forced this incident to happen. It doesn't even matter if you think the blockade is illegal or not. Defying the blockade with six civilian ships is not the way to resolve the crisis, since no military will step aside without a fight or orders.
The aid organizers and ship captains KNEW this, and possibly even WANTED civilians to die for no other reason than to make Israel look bad, and you, and most other spineless nations in Europe are enabling them.

It's just unbelievable.

[Warforger]

At 5/31/10 04:46 PM, adrshepard wrote: The aid organizers and ship captains KNEW this, and possibly even WANTED civilians to die for no other reason than to make Israel look bad, and you, and most other spineless nations in Europe are enabling them.

It's just unbelievable.

Wow. Yah yah, totally, again why am I reminded of the time when the future Republica Sprska president said "In 48 hours Sarajevo will be gone, by the end of the month there will be no more Muslims in Bosnia" in his war crime testimonial he defended the genocide even calling the war "holy".

I don't see what the captains had to say, it appears its just the crewmen attacking the soldiers, a helicopter ain't exactly a quiet thing to slip by you know.

[sora-key]

I swear if Israeli soldiers shot a toddler, everyone would say that the baby was trying to deliver weapons or some lame shit.
I hope turkey cuts of all connections with israel. Israel needs turkey as turkey and iran are the only non arab countries in the middle east and we know iran and israel don't sit together during lunch.

[Musician]

At 5/31/10 04:46 PM, adrshepard wrote: Been shot? Are you kidding me? Do you see any bullet wounds on them? I don't.

I don't either, but frankly that's the only thing that could have caused the injury. Since they weren't on the ship whatever caused the injury (which is described as being in the head) had to be long range. So they were either attacking the ships with bullets or magic.

It's pathetic how easily you've been taken in by this.

Are you kidding me? You're the one trying to revise history here. Dozens of civilians were shot on the flotilla. So obviously at some point during this conflict the IDF started discharging live rounds. Now, Al Jazeera's reporters claim that the IDF shot first. I'm inclined to believe them until new evidence arises.