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MindChamber
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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-04 11:36:26 Reply

At 5/4/10 08:33 AM, Rucklo wrote:
At 5/4/10 12:57 AM, MindChamber wrote: practice makes perfect. and we already have ideas on how to make the next one better.
A suggestion would be to boost the excitement of each category a little further. The movie + games had that OK, but both musician + user of the year had no list of nominees. At least a few nominees could be presented on the spot before the actual announcing of the winner, just for the extra thrill.

Also, I hope there will be an artportal-category for 2010! :)

I agree on all counts, Ill need to block off a month for the rendering but it'll be worth it. I actually considered doing a montage for the best user and best musician, and was in the process of collecting clips when I ran out of time, but yeah that would definitely make for a cooler experience.

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-04 11:55:40 Reply

At 5/4/10 10:03 AM, Quarl wrote: Wow, so much ass kissing going on in here :/

Mods + admins, great job running newgrounds. Tarboy was a great flash and deserved to win. I seem to recall reading that there was a panel of judges that picked tarboy. There was also a panel that picked the game of the year (I missed which game it was/ don't play flash games.) Was there a panel of judges that picked hania and if so, who?

Tom picked her, he has a pm, take it up with him.

Aside from liljim, most of the admins don't really get involved with the audio community (and liljim only once in a blue moon when he decides it's time to defend the system he helped create.) Fact is, you guys SUCK at taking any sort of criticism. While our responses may have been vaguely extreme, you guys have been nothing but hypocrites.

This a testement to how much you don't know, really.. if you aren't in the office, you really have no idea whats going on, and are clueless to make assumptions such as this one. and I wouldn't call your comments extreme, just tactless and rude. if there was a problem where the way something was handled thats what the mod forums are for, or PMs....

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-04 11:58:02 Reply

At 5/4/10 10:03 AM, Quarl wrote: Wow, so much ass kissing going on in here :/

Aside from liljim, most of the admins don't really get involved with the audio community (and liljim only once in a blue moon when he decides it's time to defend the system he helped create.) Fact is, you guys SUCK at taking any sort of criticism. While our responses may have been vaguely extreme, you guys have been nothing but hypocrites.

We suck terribly at taking criticism. We also hate the audio portal. You can tell this because we transcript every conversation we have about the site and none of them involve the audio portal. In fact, Rob and myself... both being admins... absolutely did NOT have a long talk with Rucklo, a prominent audio mod, about how the audio portal should be a top priority after we unveil our current stack of projects, and we certainly did NOT discuss new tools to help promote and organize audio so artists would have a much more appropriate platform for an artform we all agree is not important in any way.

The other thing we refused to do this year (because we also hate the audio community, not just portal) was to go out of our way to pick a user of the year who does nothing to validate the importance of quality audio in collaborative publications.

We are huge hypocrites because we admins put our admin forum cliques ahead of the overall newgrounds community. If we reached out to new channels that might encourage people to get outside the box a bit more and wouldn't that just suck!?

Thanks for exposing us for what we are Quarl, I think everything will be better now!


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-04 13:40:32 Reply

At 5/4/10 11:58 AM, PsychoGoldfish wrote: Thanks for exposing us for what we are Quarl, I think everything will be better now!

I will have to admit, I do realize that much of the audio community became a little peeved when hania won.

I felt a little tweaked, but thats wont stop me from posting my music on newgrounds. I love the website, I love the community, I love releasing my tracks for people to use in their flash movies, and when new musicians ask me where to post there stuff online, I say the newgrounds audio portal.

although the portal is not perfect, it is truly the best spot on the web to post your stuff.

so, until you guys really pump it up, its good enough for me, and I will continue to post my music

I don't think it goes said enough, because us musicians tend to fixate on the bad parts of things, the audio portal rocks, so Thank you guys for creating such a great place.

Hopefully if more of the audio community realizes that without you guys, we wouldn't have an audio portal in the first place, and they realize that even with its flaws its the best portal on the web, then you guys will actually be more motivated to improve it.

but until that moment happens, at least know that I appreciate the portal and will try to get more involved with the ng community, and continue posting my music.

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-04 13:41:37 Reply

At 5/4/10 11:55 AM, MindChamber wrote:
Tom picked her, he has a pm, take it up with him.

Word. This is really all I needed to know. From now on I'll forward all my complaints to tom. Really though, at this point nothing can be said or done. Hania got a tank. She deserves credit for her work definitely but what's upsetting people is that there were way better candidates for musician of the year.

At 5/4/10 11:55 AM, MindChamber wrote: I wouldn't call your comments extreme, just tactless and rude. if there was a problem where the way something was handled thats what the mod forums are for, or PMs....

Noted. Sorry for being an asshole.

At 5/4/10 11:58 AM, PsychoGoldfish wrote: I'm also an asshole!

Everyone already knows that pg.


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gumOnShoe
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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-04 14:12:49 Reply

I just want to know what it is the admins have against the chat regulars who so desire a chat. I hear they've been waiting every weekend for three years now, and to be snubbed of even a recognition of Best Chat User of the Year award to anyone of their members is entirely distasteful. I hear they eagerly await their slave admins release, but that if it doesn't happen their will be much blood on the walls of HQ. I just thought I would inquire and pass on the warning to the apathetic e-apartheid enforcers that claim to "RUN" this website.

muchado, cool top pics. I'd like to through out a pleasant William and Sly thumbs up even though it didn't make the list. I enjoyed that game more than any other out this year and it was artistically well done. But I'm cool with keeping tabs on who I do and don't like and I don't need validation in the form of a metallic tank to like what games I do. Plus, Kajenx (sp?) got plenty of PR as one of the first GoTW as it is.

Anyhow, I'm going to let you all be very upset at each other again now. Excuse me while I back out of the room. I wouldn't want to get in the middle of a drama fest. :p You users are being silly & well, its fairly typical user-admin interaction going on here. Toodles.


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-04 15:43:00 Reply

To the audio community ( and my self as I am in that community lol ) : Newgrounds is a flash based site. That's why the admins don't have the audio portal at the top of their to do list. Stop complaining to them and let them finish their work untill they can get to the AP problems. It's just like the newgrounds chat... it's on the bottom of their to do list pretty much.

To the admins: We are asking for you guys to get involved in the AP because this thread is practically useless. Hania wasn't even mentioned once. And that's why quite a few audio mods dropped their position on being a mod becuase

(1) - their is just too much work for very few mods, and (2) - it seems as though you guys stopped caring for the AP and the forum so why even bother.

Just popping in the audio forum like once a week or so is just all we really need, so that we know you guys are aware of the problems.

------

holy shit i actually adressed issues without bitching o.O

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-04 16:49:58 Reply

At 5/4/10 03:43 PM, Sealander wrote:

To the admins: We are asking for you guys to get involved in the AP because this thread is practically useless. Hania wasn't even mentioned once.

thats all well and good, and while your opinions matter, you dont have the final say.

is that really so hard to understand?

holy shit i actually adressed issues without bitching o.O

I mustve been reading the wrong post

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-04 17:59:45 Reply

At 5/4/10 04:49 PM, MindChamber wrote:
At 5/4/10 03:43 PM, Sealander wrote:

To the admins: We are asking for you guys to get involved in the AP because this thread is practically useless. Hania wasn't even mentioned once.
thats all well and good, and while your opinions matter, you dont have the final say.

is that really so hard to understand?

I understand that.. but we should have a say on who deservers to win that award. Sorohanro got the most votes and should have won this year ... but i guess that doesn't matter anymore.

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-04 18:46:17 Reply

Whoa. A bit of drama, eh? Anyhow, I think it was clear Tarboy was gonna win. I'm surprised that Level Up won, but hey, what do I know? As for musician of the year (MOTY), I just realized that there wasn't any criteria for choosing music, unlike games and movies which have criteria in them. you guys really need to state the criteria for MOTY. Without it, we wouldn't know what it takes to get the award. Which would lead to dramas like this. It may not be the end-all-be-all solution, but it's a step in the right direction.

ImpendingRiot
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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-04 19:48:28 Reply

I think the real skeleton in the closet here that no one is talking about is Tomamoto winning user of the year. I hate that guy/girl (who is he/she?).


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-05 02:23:59 Reply

At 5/4/10 11:58 AM, PsychoGoldfish wrote: Thanks for exposing us for what we are Quarl, I think everything will be better now!

Grandmas still dead. :(


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-05 08:39:28 Reply

In regards to the Hania drama, i think that while it is a contraversial choice, its a valid one. I didnt have any say in that award whatsoever, and im not one to speculate heavily on it, but based on my own community efforts, the site seems to be driving more and more emphasis on getting people to integrate and work together. I especially liked the user of the year pick because it reinforced the fact that you can play a heavy role in the newgrounds community without necessarily being in the forums all day or whatever. People have a hard time realizing that being part of the community isnt necessariliy being in the forums. You can play a large role in the community by just being involved in other peoples/involving other people in your projects.

I kind of feel thats how Hania fits in, she actively kept tabs with the community via her userpage and was working with other artists, making world class games/animations/whatever.

The point is, that its where the site is headed, i think animators / programmers / musicians / illustrators have a knack for falling into a bubble, isolating themselves from the community and talent pool that is available to them. I've always felt that the creative part of newgrounds is amongst the friendliest and most open-minded userbase the site has to offer. Too few people actually take advantage of that and make use of that.

So in that respect, maybe this drama and bitterness was inevitable when the firm step was finally made in changing the flow of the river. Maybe looking at it in those terms, it is a worthwhile sacrifice in having people be angry and insulted now, if its for the greater good of breaking that bubble in the long term.


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-05 09:09:16 Reply

While that's all true Luis, the reason that this happens every time the staff does something awesome for the site is that the users on the forums feel entitled and the admins don't remember ever giving the users that privilege. Instead of being billed as absolute best of the year, these awards are really staff picks for what the staff thinks is best of the year, and best for the site. No one should fool themselves into thinking this is a talent contest because it isn't. It isn't a popularity contest either. Its an award for who the STAFF feels best progressed in the field in regards to what direction the Newgrounds STAFF wants to go in.

The users need to man up and realize that just because their favorite person didn't get a glittering tank, doesn't mean that user isn't still awesome in his own light. I don't see anything stopping anyone from having a users choice awards, but then that would require them not to be self absorbed and lazy interneters.

Not that I haven't been guilty of the same (chinagrounds), but seriously wtf audio kidz, you give out awards every time you have a contest or put someone on the front page. Chillax.


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-05 09:48:00 Reply

At 5/5/10 09:09 AM, gumOnShoe wrote: While that's all true Luis, the reason that this happens every time the staff does something awesome for the site is that the users on the forums feel entitled and the admins don't remember ever giving the users that privilege. Instead of being billed as absolute best of the year, these awards are really staff picks for what the staff thinks is best of the year, and best for the site. No one should fool themselves into thinking this is a talent contest because it isn't. It isn't a popularity contest either. Its an award for who the STAFF feels best progressed in the field in regards to what direction the Newgrounds STAFF wants to go in.

Yea its been that way these past years, I remember tom mentioning that its changing next year and beyond to allow for the public to get involved in user-based awards such as musician and user of the year. That in itself has its own set of challenges because then it DOES start to become more of a popularity contest. I do agree with you that there should be more of a detachment from the staff for awards like user / musician of the year perhaps. Its impossible for one man (Tom) to be concious of EVERYONES involvement in the site.

I am somewhat disappointed in the neverending bitterness anytime theres ANY sort of awards, I think part of that is expected but also part of that is just immaturity. Let us not forget that you dont see Armor Games / Kongregate / whatever shelling out money to reward its users with an trophy opportunity. I dunno, maybe im biased, i just get sad when people take these things so personally like we ruined their lives or something. Not everyone can win.


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-05 09:54:07 Reply

At 5/4/10 03:43 PM, Sealander wrote: To the audio community ( and my self as I am in that community lol ) : Newgrounds is a flash based site. That's why the admins don't have the audio portal at the top of their to do list.

Thats not entirely correct. It actually IS at the TOP priority, the problem with that portal is that it needs to be done from scratch. Its no secret that its a broken system. To just fix a piece of it would be like patching a tire thats already ripped to shreds. The reason its taken so long is because it is being redone from scratch, and theres alot of shit that goes into making a totally new framework for a portal. Theres the user management aspect, the reviewing, the plugging it in with the other reviews of other portals, the moderation tools, etc etc etc. Its just a massive undertaking, and most of it being done by just one person.

The frusteration is valid, but being as blunt to say that the admins are plain old tossing it into a lesser list is incorrect entirely.


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ahkahk
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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-05 11:37:59 Reply

right!

Tank Awards, Winners Video

Chronamut
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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-05 11:58:34 Reply

At 5/5/10 09:54 AM, Luis wrote:
At 5/4/10 03:43 PM, Sealander wrote: To the audio community ( and my self as I am in that community lol ) : Newgrounds is a flash based site. That's why the admins don't have the audio portal at the top of their to do list.
Thats not entirely correct. It actually IS at the TOP priority, the problem with that portal is that it needs to be done from scratch. Its no secret that its a broken system. To just fix a piece of it would be like patching a tire thats already ripped to shreds. The reason its taken so long is because it is being redone from scratch, and theres alot of shit that goes into making a totally new framework for a portal. Theres the user management aspect, the reviewing, the plugging it in with the other reviews of other portals, the moderation tools, etc etc etc. Its just a massive undertaking, and most of it being done by just one person.

The frusteration is valid, but being as blunt to say that the admins are plain old tossing it into a lesser list is incorrect entirely.

thank you.

THANK YOU.

GOD FUCKING THANK YOU!!

I have been waiting to hear thsoe words from the staff for.. at LEAST 3 years, when I feel the redesign actually DESTROYED the portal, instead of revived it. I couldn't agree with you more that the audio portal needs to be overhauled, and as one of the longest standign remaining audio portal musicians nothing would make me happier if I could help that one person in charge of this project in any way, shape, or form.

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-05 12:19:33 Reply

At 5/5/10 11:58 AM, Chronamut wrote: nothing would make me happier if I could help that one person in charge of this project in any way, shape, or form.

Don't hold your breath? Entitlement. Me & I. That's the exact line of thought that led to everyone being pissy over this award ceremony. I'm sure if user input were required it would be asked for as it has been in the past. In the mean time, the mk3 thread is probably the best place to suggest site improvements given liljim has already said he reads the thread every day.


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-05 17:31:13 Reply

At 5/5/10 12:19 PM, gumOnShoe wrote:
At 5/5/10 11:58 AM, Chronamut wrote: nothing would make me happier if I could help that one person in charge of this project in any way, shape, or form.
Don't hold your breath? Entitlement. Me & I. That's the exact line of thought that led to everyone being pissy over this award ceremony. I'm sure if user input were required it would be asked for as it has been in the past. In the mean time, the mk3 thread is probably the best place to suggest site improvements given liljim has already said he reads the thread every day.

that doesnt necessarily help the workload of the user working on the redesign however.. there may be things that we could do to lighten his burden that he's just too busy to do..

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-05 21:15:34 Reply

I thought these creative portals on here were about art and putting your creation out there, not winning awards and becoming attention whores.

I like the idea that NG has a panel to select what they think should get an award and gives it to them for their creations, whether its music or animation. Hard work goes into both of them but they know that they aren't promised anything for it, it's a portal with hundreds (plus) users and most of them submit stuff all the time.

Someone didn't win, so why are YOU complaining. It's not about winning shit, it's about DOING shit and letting others see it/hear it.

Leave the admins and mods alone. You can express your opinions but don't just assume that theres some kind of government-class conspiracy that no one cares and we're all being run by an iron-fisted administration who just picks stuff without thought to win a prize that didn't have to even be a feature for the NG community.

And now, I'm going to finish my rum and coke.


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-06 06:47:26 Reply

At 5/5/10 09:15 PM, TheAutocrat wrote:
Someone didn't win, so why are YOU complaining. It's not about winning shit, it's about DOING shit and letting others see it/hear it.

You don't get it.

We don't care that we lost, we were complaining because Tom or the admins did not look at the Musician of the year thread. Now it is completely pointless.

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-06 10:27:07 Reply

cool, i guess


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-06 10:49:54 Reply

At 5/6/10 06:47 AM, Sealander wrote:
At 5/5/10 09:15 PM, TheAutocrat wrote:
Someone didn't win, so why are YOU complaining. It's not about winning shit, it's about DOING shit and letting others see it/hear it.
You don't get it.

We don't care that we lost, we were complaining because Tom or the admins did not look at the Musician of the year thread. Now it is completely pointless.

YOU dont get it. Just because you made a thread doesnt mean Tom or the admins had to value your choice, You said it time and time again, you had a right to choose the winner.

YOU DONT.

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-06 10:52:17 Reply

At 5/6/10 06:47 AM, Sealander wrote:
At 5/5/10 09:15 PM, TheAutocrat wrote:
Someone didn't win, so why are YOU complaining. It's not about winning shit, it's about DOING shit and letting others see it/hear it.
You don't get it.

We don't care that we lost, we were complaining because Tom or the admins did not look at the Musician of the year thread. Now it is completely pointless.

I don't mean to be a dick about this.... I think there are some valid points that we COULD have looked at that forum to get a reading on what people were hoping for in the audio category, but you have to admit there is a "best of" thread posted like every hour, so you'll have to forgive us for overlooking some of them. If we read every one of these threads we'd never get stuff like NG chat or Pico 2 done.


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-06 15:01:25 Reply

At 5/6/10 10:52 AM, PsychoGoldfish wrote: so you'll have to forgive us for overlooking some of them. If we read every one of these threads we'd never get stuff like NG chat or Pico 2 done.

You don't have to read every thread.

At 5/6/10 10:49 AM, MindChamber wrote:

YOU dont get it. Just because you made a thread doesnt mean Tom or the admins had to value your choice, You said it time and time again, you had a right to choose the winner.

I never said that I had the right to choose the winner, but I do have the option to vote a winner. I was stating that Tom should have looked at the votes for who would be the musician of the year, instead of choosing one out of the blue.

Maestro Rage was really the first one where we ( the audio community ) , the musicians, and the rest were happy about it because he was mentioned in the MOTY thread. He ALSO did have some success that year with the flashes and the audio portal and helped out with the community. If we had winners like Maestro rage ( but a different one of course ), we would all be cool with it.

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-06 16:42:29 Reply

At 5/6/10 03:01 PM, Sealander wrote:

I never said that I had the right to choose the winner, but I do have the option to vote a winner.

but you DONT have that option.

I was stating that Tom should have looked at the votes for who would be the musician of the year, instead of choosing one out of the blue.

but its HIS site and HIS Choice. you really DONT get it. it wasn't out of the blue, just because his choice wasnt one you wanted.


Maestro Rage was really the first one where we ( the audio community ) , the musicians, and the rest were happy about it because he was mentioned in the MOTY thread. He ALSO did have some success that year with the flashes and the audio portal and helped out with the community. If we had winners like Maestro rage ( but a different one of course ), we would all be cool with it.

just because Tom chose MaestroRage doesnt mean it was because of the MOTY thread, it was because Tom personally felt he deserved it. for his reasons, not because of you, or anyone else ..

do you finally get it?

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-06 17:54:09 Reply

I got a brilliant idea for those not happy with Tom's choice.

Make your own fucking trophy, and fedex it to to who you believe deserved it.

Or make your own fucking site and wait years and years for it to become famous enough so that you can make nicer rewards and give them to people only to have your users bitch about it.


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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-06 20:48:17 Reply

At 5/6/10 04:42 PM, MindChamber wrote:
At 5/6/10 03:01 PM, Sealander wrote:

I never said that I had the right to choose the winner, but I do have the option to vote a winner.
but you DONT have that option.

I was stating that Tom should have looked at the votes for who would be the musician of the year, instead of choosing one out of the blue.
but its HIS site and HIS Choice. you really DONT get it. it wasn't out of the blue, just because his choice wasnt one you wanted.

I already understood that, I was just putting my thoughts about the whole drama issue and shit.

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Response to Tank Awards, Winners Video 2010-05-07 00:51:12 Reply

This argument has long stopped being about the audio community and has turned into an attack on the staff, which is beside the point.

So what if what Psycho Goldfish wasn't being sarcastic? What if the staff all hated the audio community? What now? All that effort spent on attacking the staff's character, and things have only been lost, not gained.

You're engaged in a conversation with the very people that can help you.

Mindchamber, aside from plans to introduce a voting panel for musician of the year, do you think there will be other steps to make the audio community feel more involved? Will there be a more specific definition of what constitutes as musician of the year?

I'm being overly formal of course, and they probably haven't made any desicions yet, but it can't hurt and it's definately more useful than mudslinging.


"Animation is not the art of drawings that move, but the art of movements that are drawn." -Norman McLaren