Pbs Kids = Government Propaganda

[HibiscusKazeneko]

Yes, I know old news is old, but I just got wind of some more info:

As I am in college, my day-to-day schedule isn't all-day, so I often arrive home in the mid-morning and sometimes turn on the TV and tune into kids' programming for nostalgia/lulz purposes. That is, I did until I found out about this.
TL;DR translation: the Obama administration has paid the Jim Henson corporation (and a few others I can't name as of this post) $16 million to put political propaganda in children's TV shows! What do you guys think of this?
And to make things a little more convincing, here's some proof gleaned from the pudding.

[VigilanteNighthawk]

I would hardly call public service announcements political propaganda. Next thing you know, people will be calling episodes about sharing communist rhetoric (which in retrospect, has probably already happened).

[SmilezRoyale]

At 4/10/10 09:45 PM, VigilanteNighthawk wrote: I would hardly call public service announcements political propaganda. Next thing you know, people will be calling episodes about sharing communist rhetoric (which in retrospect, has probably already happened).

I learned from Alex Jones the government has various programs calling on children to report the terrorist activities of their parents to government officials. Whether they succeed in this is indeterminant but i have little doubt that those in power have everything to gain from children acting as Youth Guards of the state.

Anyway if i had a television show it would be all about the benefits of Trade and contract. Rather than fighting for the toys like a bunch of early twentieth century governments, make contracts and trade the toys you don't want for those you do.

And maybe teach the kids to be more far sighted, having friends is more valuable in the long run than getting X at the expense of social relationship.

[VigilanteNighthawk]

At 4/10/10 10:18 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote:

At 4/10/10 09:45 PM, VigilanteNighthawk wrote: I would hardly call public service announcements political propaganda. Next thing you know, people will be calling episodes about sharing communist rhetoric (which in retrospect, has probably already happened).

I learned from Alex Jones the government has various programs calling on children to report the terrorist activities of their parents to government officials. Whether they succeed in this is indeterminant but i have little doubt that those in power have everything to gain from children acting as Youth Guards of the state.

Which is a strawman for the topic at hand. The episode in question is about getting swine flu shots, not turning in terrorists. I do, on the other hand, have issues with relying on children to turn in their parents.

Anyway if i had a television show it would be all about the benefits of Trade and contract. Rather than fighting for the toys like a bunch of early twentieth century governments, make contracts and trade the toys you don't want for those you do.

Are you implying that sharing is bad, or are you saying that children's programming should include topics about commerce as well?

And maybe teach the kids to be more far sighted, having friends is more valuable in the long run than getting X at the expense of social relationship.

Whole heartedly agreed.

[Gunner-D]

At 4/10/10 10:18 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: I learned from Alex Jones the government has various programs calling on children to report the terrorist activities of their parents to government officials.

Even though Alex Jones is nutty, a new initiative to encourage "tattling" is factual.

When planning out a parenting strategy, I wanted to leave television out of my life. It just isn't possible. So for the past 3 months, I've been watching nothing but PBS children's television, mostly in the morning, mostly Curious George and Sesame Street. I've seen no government propaganda (that I am aware of).

However, this afternoon, I needed some time to finish a music recording, and PBS was airing Julia Child's cooking program, which I enjoy but my son hates. So I got desperate a put on Nickelodean (which I don't want to get in the habit of). Before deciding to change to the cartoon channel, there was a show in which the children were reporting the activities of someone they knew who was distributing pirated DVDs. There was a big issue about the person potentially being dangerous, too...

Kinda far from propaganda or anything like that, but definitely an undertone of "Rat out the people you know" from television and the government now. Not just children either. Same goes for adults as well. The IRS is has launched a campaign to encourage people to report someone filing false tax returns, and the rat gets a cut of the recovered money. Isn't that some shit?

[HibiscusKazeneko]

At 4/10/10 10:54 PM, Gunner-D wrote:
When planning out a parenting strategy, I wanted to leave television out of my life. It just isn't possible.

It isn't? I know of lots of people who have gone totally TV-Free and brag about it online.

So for the past 3 months, I've been watching nothing but PBS children's television, mostly in the morning, mostly Curious George and Sesame Street. I've seen no government propaganda (that I am aware of).

You might not know this, but there was one episode of Sesame Street that mirrored the Sid the Science Kid episode I mentioned earlier (it featured Elmo getting a flu shot). I know the topic of shots is nothing new to Sesame Street; I used to have a book called Big Bird Goes to the Doctor (I probably still have it somewhere) published in 1989 in which Big Bird received a shot. However, it did not go into detail as to what the shot was of/for; the doctor just said it was so Big Bird could "stay healthy," which is a LOT more vague (and as I saw at the time, harmless) than the message the Sesame Workshop was putting out this time around.

However, this afternoon, I needed some time to finish a music recording, and PBS was airing Julia Child's cooking program, which I enjoy but my son hates. So I got desperate a put on Nickelodean (which I don't want to get in the habit of). Before deciding to change to the cartoon channel, there was a show in which the children were reporting the activities of someone they knew who was distributing pirated DVDs. There was a big issue about the person potentially being dangerous, too...

Kinda far from propaganda or anything like that, but definitely an undertone of "Rat out the people you know" from television and the government now. Not just children either. Same goes for adults as well. The IRS is has launched a campaign to encourage people to report someone filing false tax returns, and the rat gets a cut of the recovered money. Isn't that some shit?

Yeah, it encourages vigilante justice, which some police departments are trying to stop. Kinda undercuts their efforts, huh?

[Gunner-D]

At 4/10/10 11:18 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote:

At 4/10/10 10:54 PM, Gunner-D wrote:
When planning out a parenting strategy, I wanted to leave television out of my life. It just isn't possible.

It isn't? I know of lots of people who have gone totally TV-Free and brag about it online.

Yeah those winners probably have a stay-at-home parent, or at least parttime help. Us losers here have to work full time opposite shifts and only get a free second when he's occupied with a toy, jumper, or tv.

Yeah, it encourages vigilante justice, which some police departments are trying to stop. Kinda undercuts their efforts, huh?

I don't really think this is something the police would be against. But I'd be pissed if a t.v. show encouraged my child to feel compelled to report me to the EPA if I didnt recycle (which I do! dont report me!).

[HibiscusKazeneko]

At 4/10/10 11:38 PM, Gunner-D wrote:
I don't really think this is something the police would be against.

If a TV show told kids they had to go out and kill people (as one in Palestine did a few years ago), yeah, people are going to be outraged. That's what vigilante justice translates to in most people's eyes.

But I'd be pissed if a t.v. show encouraged my child to feel compelled to report me to the EPA if I didnt recycle (which I do! dont report me!).

Maybe not the EPA; I'd think the Earth Liberation Front would jump on that opportunity first.

[Gunner-D]

At 4/11/10 01:13 AM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote:

At 4/10/10 11:38 PM, Gunner-D wrote:
I don't really think this is something the police would be against.

If a TV show told kids they had to go out and kill people

Cookie Monster says "C is for 'choke-slam', thats good enough for me"

Maybe not the EPA; I'd think the Earth Liberation Front would jump on that opportunity first.

Yeah Im scared that an ELF is going to burn down my house. Im more frightened that Waste Management will come to my door and say "You put non-recyclable styrofoam in the green bin you dummy!"

[VigilanteNighthawk]

At 4/11/10 01:13 AM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote:

If a TV show told kids they had to go out and kill people (as one in Palestine did a few years ago), yeah, people are going to be outraged. That's what vigilante justice translates to in most people's eyes.

I'm not following. The context of this thread appeared to be about encouraging children to report people they know to the authorities. How is this vigilante justice? If anything, it's the exact opposite of vigilante justice.

And by the way, as my alias denotes, I know talking about here. ;)

[poxpower]

Haha what a shitty-ass propaganda website.

The anti-vaccination movement is spearheaded by such eminent authorities as Oprah and Jenny McCarthy and their idiot claims have been thoroughly SMASHED and all their evidence cut down and beat into a pulp.

Their stupidity has caused ACTUAL DEATHS and an increase in children diseases that are treated through vaccinations. Their dumb movement actually killed children and is rooted in fantasy and paranoid delusions.

I'd promptly forget about that website if I were you.

[Yorik]

I don't get how that flash game is political propaganda. It's just a layman's explanation of how vaccines work.

[gradenator]

Your source article is a fucking joke.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

At 4/11/10 01:48 AM, poxpower wrote:
The anti-vaccination movement is spearheaded by such eminent authorities as Oprah and Jenny McCarthy and their idiot claims have been thoroughly SMASHED and all their evidence cut down and beat into a pulp.

Not necessarily. There are a TON of details that even Jenny McCarthy has overlooked, namely additional ingredients and contaminants.

Their stupidity has caused ACTUAL DEATHS and an increase in children diseases that are treated through vaccinations. Their dumb movement actually killed children and is rooted in fantasy and paranoid delusions.

Guess what? Vaccines have caused ACTUAL DEATHS too! There were a number of cases in the early 1990s where kids got aseptic meningitis after the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) and two died. Japan banned the MMR as a result and has upheld the ban ever since.
Also DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus and acellular pertussis) has been linked as far back as the 1970s to cases of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) because it slows breathing during REM sleep.
And don't even get me started about the COUNTLESS reports of paralysis after administration of the Gardasil vaccine (which our dipshit governor was bold enough to REQUIRE for ALL SCHOOLGIRLS AS YOUNG AS 9!)

Would you take 1 life to save 1000 lives, or would you take 1000 lives to save 1 life?

I'd promptly forget about that website if I were you.

Would if I could, man, would if I could.

Also, I need to mention that several commonly administered vaccines are cured on aborted fetal cells, and there is a movement among Catholics to get these vaccines banned.

[poxpower]

At 4/11/10 12:27 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote:

Guess what? Vaccines have caused ACTUAL DEATHS too!

Vaccines have saved far FAR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more lives than they've taken.

There were a number of cases in the early 1990s where kids got aseptic meningitis after the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) and two died.

Two kids is nothing. Absolutely nothing. Completely insignificant. More people have died due to choking on pretzels.

Japan banned the MMR as a result and has upheld the ban ever since.

Yeah they replaced the ONE vaccine with THREE OTHERS.
MMR is for measles, mumps and rubella.

Also DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus and acellular pertussis) has been linked as far back as the 1970s to cases of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) because it slows breathing during REM sleep.

1 in 140 000 doses had the reaction.
That's ridiculously low. You're far more likely to die from the diseases if you don't get vaccinated than you are to have a fatal / debilitating reaction if you take it in.

And don't even get me started about the COUNTLESS reports of paralysis after administration of the Gardasil vaccine

Yeah I do want you to get started because it sounds like bullshit.

Would you take 1 life to save 1000 lives, or would you take 1000 lives to save 1 life?

Vaccines are not entirely risk-free and accidents and bad reactions do occur and deaths do ensue, but a non-vaccinated population vs a vaccinated one incurs countless more deaths.

And it's not a narrow margin.

Your chances of dying are a LOT higher if you DON'T get vaccinated than are your chances of having a really tragic reaction to the vaccine itself.

By comparison, you should avoid any and all surgeries like the plague because those are a lot more dangerous. In fact, you shouldn't drive either.

[SolInvictus]

At 4/11/10 12:27 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: Would you take 1 life to save 1000 lives, or would you take 1000 lives to save 1 life?

as its been said; avoiding the risk of a reaction to a vaccine puts many, many more children at risk from the diseases they should be protected from.
so ya, one life (or mild reaction as is most often the case) in a few thousand is better than the possible thousands of lives at risk because a few parents wanted to avoid highly unlikely and generally mild vaccine reactions.

[hippl5]

At 4/11/10 12:27 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: Would you take 1 life to save 1000 lives, or would you take 1000 lives to save 1 life?

I'd take 1001 lives.

[Jon-86]

Q: How do you explain the global population explosion, over the last hundred or so years?
A: Medical science!

[HibiscusKazeneko]

At 4/11/10 12:54 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 4/11/10 12:27 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote:

Guess what? Vaccines have caused ACTUAL DEATHS too!

Vaccines have saved far FAR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more lives than they've taken.

Hahaha, I can easily rebut that. Most of the vaccines we have now are for diseases that are normally harmless; even when they were at their peak, only a handful of people got seriously ill or died. By contrast, once the vaccines were developed (haphazardly, I must add), EVEN MORE people got sick. Take the 1975-1976 H1N1 scare for example: only a handful of people in a confined space (Fort Dix) actually got the regular virus and only one person died. A humongous media frenzy ensued, and a vaccine was developed within a matter of WEEKS (does not leave enough time for screening and tests) and the intimidated masses flocked to special clinics to get themselves inoculated. Hundreds if not thousands of people suffered consequences such as autoimmune reactions and permanent paralysis and 25 people died. In other words, the vaccine destroyed more lives than it protected.

There were a number of cases in the early 1990s where kids got aseptic meningitis after the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) and two died.

Two kids is nothing. Absolutely nothing. Completely insignificant. More people have died due to choking on pretzels.

Two deaths from a vaccine designed to SAVE lives is still WAY too many. In his 1967 book The Hazards of Immunization, Sir Graham Wilson famously wrote "It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person." Unfortunately his cries fell on deaf ears and now in the United States we mandate that ALL children receive 36 injections of 126 different pathogens from birth through childhood, WAY more than ANY other developed country.

Japan banned the MMR as a result and has upheld the ban ever since.

Yeah they replaced the ONE vaccine with THREE OTHERS.
MMR is for measles, mumps and rubella.

You're missing something there. Thanks to the 1993 court ruling in those cases, Japan no longer legally requires vaccinations for anyone. They're still "strongly urged" and it should be noted that their schedule is MUCH LESS jam-packed than the US schedule. Also only the single measles and rubella vaccines are routinely given to children; the mumps is totally optional as it was linked the closest with reactions.

Also DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus and acellular pertussis) has been linked as far back as the 1970s to cases of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) because it slows breathing during REM sleep.

1 in 140 000 doses had the reaction.
That's ridiculously low. You're far more likely to die from the diseases if you don't get vaccinated than you are to have a fatal / debilitating reaction if you take it in.

Where did you get that number? The CDC? They're not to be trusted.
It's so easy to distort statistics to serve one's purpose that a preschooler can do it.
It should be noted that the DTaP (or the alternative DPT) is the most likely vaccine to fail, and one of its most common complications is chronic ear infections, which my brother and I both suffered. I have life-long consequences of this damage; my ears fill up with liquid easily and my hearing is often obstructed by my own sebum. Still think it's worth it to damage kids' hearing? I don't know what to say to you other than you're a complete sadist.

And don't even get me started about the COUNTLESS reports of paralysis after administration of the Gardasil vaccine

Yeah I do want you to get started because it sounds like bullshit.

Get ready for the ride of your life.
I had more links like this, but I lost most of them. I can post again with more if you'd like.

Would you take 1 life to save 1000 lives, or would you take 1000 lives to save 1 life?

Vaccines are not entirely risk-free and accidents and bad reactions do occur and deaths do ensue, but a non-vaccinated population vs a vaccinated one incurs countless more deaths.

And it's not a narrow margin.

Your chances of dying are a LOT higher if you DON'T get vaccinated than are your chances of having a really tragic reaction to the vaccine itself.

Read what I said above. Also, there's a documentary film I highly advise EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD watch.

By comparison, you should avoid any and all surgeries like the plague because those are a lot more dangerous. In fact, you shouldn't drive either.

Funny that you mention that, because I eschew most every mainstream medical intervention or treatment, with few exceptions (i.e. ones I was not able to consent to). I believe doctors are not out to help people, they only dispense drugs and treatments that they know will cause more trouble down the line so they can "treat" those problems with increasingly expensive treatments for which they can rake in a seemingly endless flow of cash. Don't try to contradict this; you know it's true. And I'll bet you a hundred bucks that you too have suffered some sort of consequence of this mechanized cash cow system.

[zero-gravity]

At 4/11/10 06:52 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote:

Too much to quote

Your conspiracy theories and skews of numbers are hilarious. The vaccine has saved people from the swine flu more than have died. 2 people dying is nothing, it can be justified by the many saved.

This is hilarious, i suppose you think the Kennedy assassination is involved also? haha

[HibiscusKazeneko]

At 4/11/10 06:59 PM, zero-gravity wrote:

At 4/11/10 06:52 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote:

Too much to quote

Your conspiracy theories and skews of numbers are hilarious. The vaccine has saved people from the swine flu more than have died. 2 people dying is nothing, it can be justified by the many saved.

This is hilarious, i suppose you think the Kennedy assassination is involved also? haha

*yawn* I don't have anything nice to say to such ignorance...
It was 25 people who died from the swine flu vaccine, not 2. (not counting the 2009 reissue)

Think about this: I've never had a flu shot in my life (to my knowledge), and I didn't get the 2009 H1N1 vaccine either. I got neither the regular flu nor the swine flu this past season. I've had several different flu strains in my lifetime, plus some ailments there are NO vaccines for, and I'm still here! So all this scaremongering that I'm setting myself up for a death sentence is total bullshit!

[Bacchanalian]

At 4/11/10 10:55 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: I've never had a flu shot in my life

And there's a guy who eats only raw fetid meats and he's doing just fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_e vidence

[Jon-86]

So what would you put the massive global population down to if its not the agricultural / industrial revolution and medical advancements?

I will give you done disease that killed millions before its cure almost wiped it out and that's Tuberculosis. If we didn't have the TB jab millions would still be dying every year. I could list more if you want but I want you to explain away thoes two examples first :)

[poxpower]

At 4/11/10 06:52 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote:

Hahaha, I can easily rebut that. Most of the vaccines we have now are for diseases that are normally harmless; even when they were at their peak, only a handful of people got seriously ill or died.

Smallpox has caused probably over a BILLION deaths since it started infecting humans 12 000 years ago and it's been eradicated through vaccinations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Er adication

That's only ONE of the diseases that's been almost eradicated by vaccination in first world countries. Now they're working on a Malaria vaccine and have been successful to some measure. Do you know how many people Malaria kills worldwide every year?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria
One to three million people die from it every year and millions more get extremely sick.

Hundreds if not thousands of people suffered consequences such as autoimmune reactions and permanent paralysis and 25 people died. In other words, the vaccine destroyed more lives than it protected.

This one is bogus. The link between the vaccine and the paralysis was never established and the actual rate of complication is negligible.

Not to mention that Swine flue has killed millions before and that for all you know, the vaccinations limited the disease to a small area where it didn't leave, thus saving thousands.

Two deaths from a vaccine designed to SAVE lives is still WAY too many.

No, it's nothing.

By comparison, 1.5% of children die at birth in the USA.
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/c/childbir th/deaths.htm

WOW HOW CAN SOMETHING DESIGNED TO GIVE LIFE KILL BABIES OH NO!!!

You're missing something there. Thanks to the 1993 court ruling in those cases, Japan no longer legally requires vaccinations for anyone.

Nor does the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination _policy#United_States

You can easily get your kid or yourself out of it.

as it was linked the closest with reactions.

Using the formula from the 70's which isn't used anymore.

Where did you get that number? The CDC? They're not to be trusted.

Yeah, who do you trust?

It should be noted that the DTaP (or the alternative DPT) is the most likely vaccine to fail,

Numbers?

and one of its most common complications is chronic ear infections

Again, numbers?

Get ready for the ride of your life.

"However, the risk of severe, potentially life-threatening reactions is estimated at no more than one per million doses of vaccine.

And it is possible that Natalie's death was due to an underlying health problem, or was a coincidence, and nothing directly to do with the vaccine. "

Read your own articles.

By the way, what kind of tactic is that? You're going to prove your point by linking me to 40 articles of reported stories of something happening with the vaccines? I can find you a million stories about people who saw Elvis. No one gives a shit about freak occurrences, false diagnosis and basically self-reported side effects and one-sided stories.

And these stories are more and more common because they innoculate hundreds of millions of people a year and any time one of them gets sick around the same time, even if it's unrelated, they will report it as though it was the vaccine because it happened around that time.

But statistically speaking, given the number of people who get them, it's no wonder thousands would get sick within days, that's just the normal rate of illness in the society, except now they have something to blame it on even if they're wrong.

Read what I said above. Also, there's a documentary film

I'd rather shoot myself.

WITH THE POLIO VACCINE WOOOO

Funny that you mention that, because I eschew most every mainstream medical intervention or treatment,

Yeah enjoy that. And when you finally die of something treatable, you can blame whatever procedure was done to you 15 years ago as the cause.

I believe doctors are not out to help people, they only dispense drugs and treatments that they know will cause more trouble down the line so they can "treat" those problems with increasingly expensive treatments for which they can rake in a seemingly endless flow of cash.

In the US maybe.
And it's mainly due to their shitty system that everyone else laughs at.

Don't try to contradict this; you know it's true. And I'll bet you a hundred bucks that you too have suffered some sort of consequence of this mechanized cash cow system.

Nope. In fact I was born upside down inside my mom and without medical intervention, I'd be dead. My dad had a heart attack last year. Without medical intervention, he'd be dead. 100% certain death at 62.

Anti-vaccination has always been a fringe movement spearheaded by rogue practitioners, religious authorities and hippie moms and to go along with it you have to reject the entire global medical establishment and that's nuts. By then you're fairly rooted in conspiracy land.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

At 4/12/10 12:46 AM, poxpower wrote:
Smallpox has caused probably over a BILLION deaths since it started infecting humans 12 000 years ago and it's been eradicated through vaccinations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Er adication

That's not true at all. Smallpox was most successfully eradicated by proper sanitation and nutrition, not by vaccines. In case you haven't noticed, the CDC took the smallpox vaccine off the routine schedule for babies and children in 1973 because it did more harm than good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria
One to three million people die from it every year and millions more get extremely sick.

Because they live in filthy conditions where mosquitoes breed like bunnies.

This one is bogus. The link between the vaccine and the paralysis was never established and the actual rate of complication is negligible.

Never established my ass.
They knew full well that the vaccine caused the paralysis epidemic, but they lied about it further down the line so they could rake in more dough convincing the uninformed masses to shoot themselves and their children up with toxins and treating the aftermath.

Not to mention that Swine flue has killed millions before and that for all you know, the vaccinations limited the disease to a small area where it didn't leave, thus saving thousands.

Millions of what? Dust mites?

No, it's nothing.

So you think it's OK for a drug company to senselessly murder people?
I wouldn't be surprised if you have a "Free Manson" bumper sticker on your car.

By comparison, 1.5% of children die at birth in the USA.
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/c/childbir th/deaths.htm

WOW HOW CAN SOMETHING DESIGNED TO GIVE LIFE KILL BABIES OH NO!!!

Need I remind you that the United States has THE highest infant mortality rate in the developed world.
The reason (drum roll please)... DOCTORS!
The system of birth in the United States has been mechanized for the past 100 years or more, thanks to a series of smear campaigns in the media and medical lobbyist groups forcing Congress to pass legislation mandating that ALL babies be delivered in hospitals. Sneaky, underhanded tactics abound, such as "Pit to Distress," the tactic of forcibly injecting a pregnant woman with pitocin (or misoprostol/Cytotec in some cases) to induce/speed up labor until her baby is in distress, then they use it as an excuse to perform an "emergency" Caesarean section. All so they can rake in extra dough from the insurance companies and empty out the maternity ward faster.

Nor does the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination _policy#United_States

You can easily get your kid or yourself out of it.

Not for much longer. States are figuring out that people are abusing the exemption system and they may revoke it altogether. Plus most exemptions are blatantly ignored by institutions such as public schools and some lines of employment.

Yeah, who do you trust?

No one. I can't trust ANYONE anymore; once I find someone I can rely on, it often turns out they have some kind of conflict of interest.

Numbers?

About 11-41% of the time it doesn't work.

"However, the risk of severe, potentially life-threatening reactions is estimated at no more than one per million doses of vaccine.

And it is possible that Natalie's death was due to an underlying health problem, or was a coincidence, and nothing directly to do with the vaccine. "

Read your own articles.

That is what is known as "ass covering." They just threw those lines in there so their Big Pharma sponsors wouldn't withdraw their support.

By the way, what kind of tactic is that? You're going to prove your point by linking me to 40 articles of reported stories of something happening with the vaccines? I can find you a million stories about people who saw Elvis. No one gives a shit about freak occurrences, false diagnosis and basically self-reported side effects and one-sided stories.

The mainstream won't report on any of this because they're sleeping with Big Pharma! I (and others) have nowhere else to turn!

And these stories are more and more common because they innoculate hundreds of millions of people a year and any time one of them gets sick around the same time, even if it's unrelated, they will report it as though it was the vaccine because it happened around that time.

Did it ever occur to you that there may be a pattern? If several people were inoculated all around the same time and they all got sick with the same thing all around the same time, it is an undeniable possibility that there is a connection. However, this possibility is almost never investigated because of Big Pharma's stranglehold on the research industry.

But statistically speaking, given the number of people who get them, it's no wonder thousands would get sick within days, that's just the normal rate of illness in the society, except now they have something to blame it on even if they're wrong.

But vaccines are supposed to keep people from ever becoming ill with anything, right,?

I'd rather shoot myself.

WITH THE POLIO VACCINE WOOOO

Enjoy your sterility.

Yeah enjoy that. And when you finally die of something treatable, you can blame whatever procedure was done to you 15 years ago as the cause.

I'd much rather die of cancer (for example) than have to go through the hassle my mother went through.

In the US maybe.
And it's mainly due to their shitty system that everyone else laughs at.

You're partially right. It exists in other countries too, but under different guises.

Nope. In fact I was born upside down inside my mom and without medical intervention, I'd be dead. My dad had a heart attack last year. Without medical intervention, he'd be dead. 100% certain death at 62.

As you have just proven it would have been better if nothing was done.

Anti-vaccination has always been a fringe movement spearheaded by rogue practitioners, religious authorities and hippie moms and to go along with it you have to reject the entire global medical establishment and that's nuts. By then you're fairly rooted in conspiracy land.

If I had a nickel for every time someone has said that to me...

[SolInvictus]

At 4/12/10 02:06 AM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: That's not true at all. Smallpox was most successfully eradicated by proper sanitation and nutrition, not by vaccines.

...smallpox isn't dependant on poor sanitation for transmission...

In case you haven't noticed, the CDC took the smallpox vaccine off the routine schedule for babies and children in 1973 because it did more harm than good.

supporting statements like this help us believe that this is the case and not some cause you've come up with and projected onto the situation.

[SolInvictus]

At 4/12/10 02:49 AM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 4/12/10 02:06 AM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: That's not true at all. Smallpox was most successfully eradicated by proper sanitation and nutrition, not by vaccines.

...smallpox isn't dependant on poor sanitation for transmission...

*or brought on by poor nutrition.

[poxpower]

At 4/12/10 02:06 AM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote:

That's not true at all. Smallpox was most successfully eradicated by proper sanitation and nutrition, not by vaccines. In case you haven't noticed,

It was eradicated through vaccination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox

Read about it some time.

the CDC took the smallpox vaccine off the routine schedule for babies and children in 1973 because it did more harm than good.

That's because the virus had been wiped out after 150+ years of vaccinations and better sanitary condition.

Never established my ass.
They knew full well that the vaccine caused the paralysis epidemic

Where did you read that?

Millions of what? Dust mites?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influ enza#1918_pandemic_in_humans
50 to 100 million people died from it the first time around and although that was caused by excessively bad conditions during the war, it's a strain of a highly infectious disease that could have gone horribly bad if left unchecked in the 70s.

That's another thing people don't realize. Viruses are UNPREDICTABLE. Maybe the 1976 flue would have killed NO ONE. Maybe it would have mutated and spread and killed MILLIONS.

So you think it's OK for a drug company to senselessly murder people?

*sigh*

The reason (drum roll please)... DOCTORS!

I pray that you don't have the brilliant idea of trying to give birth at home.
Or ever.

that ALL babies be delivered in hospitals.

That's not a law as far as I know.
Source?

Not for much longer.

You just said it was illegal now you're saying "ok not yet, but soon!".

States are figuring out that people are abusing the exemption system and they may revoke it altogether.

Yeah because it's causing a resurgence in diseases that had been almost eradicated and causing kids to die.

Refusing vaccination for your kid is tantamount to child abuse. And the more people do it, the worse it'll get as we lose herd immunity and the death toll for shit like mumps and measles soars back up and you'll have no one left to blame but your movement.

No one. I can't trust ANYONE anymore

Shouldn't trust yourself then.

Numbers?

About 11-41% of the time it doesn't work.

I cannot find these numbers anywhere but on that anti-vaccine website you linked.
Many other sources cite efficacy rates as high as 99+%
Sounds like a case of the old cherry-picked data and misleading conclusions to me but I'd really need to be a lot more of an expert on this subject to know what the hell they're actually talking about because vaccinations are complex and the formulas vary from place to place and from year to year as well as the methods of injections and a whole slew of other factors.

That is what is known as "ass covering." They just threw those lines in there so their Big Pharma sponsors wouldn't withdraw their support.

Vaccinations have been around for a good 250+ years, long before any of the current systems were in place.

The mainstream won't report on any of this because they're sleeping with Big Pharma!

What, the mainstream media is extremely sympathetic to anti-vaccination movements. It's partly their fault that it's been so successful at killing children lately.

Drug companies are a bunch of assholes, especially in the USA but they actually do make real products that offer real benefits. They just have the worst way of pushing them onto people and have created a HORRIBLE reputation for themselves over the years as rapacious greedy assholes ( which they are, especially in the USA ) and that's made it possible for anyone to push any idea they want onto the public just by going "cause the pharmaceutical industry doesn't want you to get better! They want to keep you sick to make money!".

I've heard that used to sell every bullshit tincture and crackpot pseudo-treatment around.

Did it ever occur to you that there may be a pattern?

Did it ever occur to you that there isn't?
Some vaccinations have proven side effects, but this particular one was never shown to have caused the reported paralysis. That's media hogwash as far as I know.

But vaccines are supposed to keep people from ever becoming ill with anything, right,?

Nope.

As you have just proven it would have been better if nothing was done.

I like my dad being alive actually.

[Ravariel]

Aight, I'll toss the troll some grub and see what it shits out...

At 4/12/10 02:06 AM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: That's not true at all. Smallpox was most successfully eradicated by proper sanitation and nutrition, not by vaccines. In case you haven't noticed, the CDC took the smallpox vaccine off the routine schedule for babies and children in 1973 because it did more harm than good.

No, it isn't. And it has been taken off the schedule because it has all but eradicated the infection. Same for Polio.

Because they live in filthy conditions where mosquitoes breed like bunnies.

Conditions matter little to the transmission, and what is everyone supposed to do, just move where there aren't any mosquitoes? Or is it better that millions just die from malaria instead of, if the numbers for fatal reactions is similar to others, a few? I will gladly kill a few to save millions. If you're not willing, you're the monster here, not us.

They knew full well that the vaccine caused the paralysis epidemic, but they lied about it further down the line so they could rake in more dough convincing the uninformed masses to shoot themselves and their children up with toxins and treating the aftermath.

Whatever.

Not to mention that Swine flue has killed millions before and that for all you know, the vaccinations limited the disease to a small area where it didn't leave, thus saving thousands.

Millions of what? Dust mites?

Influenza kills half a million people per year (over 40,000 in the US alone), many times more in pandemic years. Do not think for a second that H1N1 is indicative of past or future swine flu danger. 3 separate flu pandemics have happened in the 20th century alone, killing tens of millions of people. The heavy front-load of the H1N1 deaths caused scientists to overreact a bit, but considering the death rate at the time of the initial diagnoses, it was not an error I begrudge. Had the death rate continued through the pandemic, millions would have died.

How many people, total, have died from H1N1 complications this year?

So you think it's OK for a drug company to senselessly murder people?

If I crack someone's rib by giving them life-saving CPR, should I be put on trial for assault and battery?

Need I remind you that the United States has THE highest infant mortality rate in the developed world.

Only if you have a selective view of what constitutes the "developed" world. Yeah, 4 more deaths per thousand births than the "best" county... how awful it is to live in the US.

Not for much longer. States are figuring out that people are abusing the exemption system and they may revoke it altogether. Plus most exemptions are blatantly ignored by institutions such as public schools and some lines of employment.

So it's mandated in the US because some states might do so in the future because they are all part of this big conspiracy to kill people for money...

riiiiiiiiiight.

No one. I can't trust ANYONE anymore; once I find someone I can rely on, it often turns out they have some kind of conflict of interest.

Aww, did one of your bros ditch you for his ho? :(

That is what is known as "ass covering." They just threw those lines in there so their Big Pharma sponsors wouldn't withdraw their support.

Of course it is... any information in an article that doesn't align with your omniscient viewpoint is obviously put there to appease the fatcats in charge of the conspiracy, or to trick people into not seeing the "real" message.

... that's exactly what they WANT you to believe!

Did it ever occur to you that there may be a pattern? If several people were inoculated all around the same time and they all got sick with the same thing all around the same time, it is an undeniable possibility that there is a connection.

Hmmm, if only that had actually happened. Sure would help your case. Of course you still run into the problem of correlation and causation. See when any two events are correlated, either A can cause B, B can cause A, C can cause both B and A, or it could be complete coincidence. Without actual evidence (which obviously doesn't exist because "Big Pharma" won't let it, and everyone's in bed with them) you can't conclusively prove most of what you're claiming.

But vaccines are supposed to keep people from ever becoming ill with anything, right,?

Ummm... no.

I'd much rather die of cancer (for example) than have to go through the hassle my mother went through.

I'm sure you would. Because obviously you have absolutely no idea what dying of cancer is actually like. Or what having Polio is like, or dying of the dozen or so other diseases we don't ever have to worry about in this country because of vaccination.

Nope. In fact I was born upside down inside my mom and without medical intervention, I'd be dead. My dad had a heart attack last year. Without medical intervention, he'd be dead. 100% certain death at 62.

As you have just proven it would have been better if nothing was done.

So you're saying that it would be better if he and his dad were dead? Yeah, you're totally on the moral high ground here. Wasn't it you that was saying that 2 deaths to save millions was too many?

If I had a nickel for every time someone has said that to me...

Maybe they're on to something...

A million Elvis fans and all that...

[HibiscusKazeneko]

Sheesh, this all has gotten FAR out of hand.
I started this thread thinking there would be some people on my side of the fence, but as it turns out everyone here is hideously undereducated.

Rather than feed the trolls, I'll just leave a few links so everyone can do the research for themselves.
I'm getting burned out and don't want to risk a permaban just for difference of ideology.