Help Drawing Hair!

[Phantox]

Hello,

I just stared working on a flash and ran into some trouble when drawing girl hair. I don't know how to do it. I want a medium/long hair but it's turning out ugly and too difficult. How does Art recommend I do it?

Also, I have a cast on my right arm and I'm drawing it with a mouse if that helps at all

Pic: It's the face of the girl I want to draw hair on. I know I'm no artist

[Felis]

Well, think about how hair behaves.

Hair is a bunch of tiny threads, of course, but it loves to clump together, especially in curly kinds.

So, the easy way is not to draw every strand, unless you're a masochist, but to draw these clumps, with maybe one or two thin ones.

It also responds appropriately to gravity, most of the time.

It'd help if you told us what kind of specific hairdo we're talking about. I could be more specific.

[Phantox]

At 3/15/10 06:21 PM, Felis wrote: Well, think about how hair behaves.

Hair is a bunch of tiny threads, of course, but it loves to clump together, especially in curly kinds.

So, the easy way is not to draw every strand, unless you're a masochist, but to draw these clumps, with maybe one or two thin ones.

Well what I've been doing is by drawing all over the area I want the hair to be until it is all filled and then release the mouse button. It comes out really ugly and I just end up ctrl+z'ing it

It also responds appropriately to gravity, most of the time.

It'd help if you told us what kind of specific hairdo we're talking about. I could be more specific.

I'm trying to do the hair like in the pic below but just a bit longer and not so bushy at the top. Sorry if it's not that good of an example. Only SFW pic I could find on my folders that shows so much of the hair

[Kinsei]

At 3/15/10 06:28 PM, Phantox wrote: I'm trying to do the hair like in the pic below but just a bit longer and not so bushy at the top. Sorry if it's not that good of an example. Only SFW pic I could find on my folders that shows so much of the hair

well lets take a look at this piece. you want to do a hair like hers, well the first thing to do is to look and see what sections she has. She has the first big one right in front, following with a second just behind that and then finally a third on the opposite side.
By matching the look of those clumps you should have a solid start to what you are looking for.
you mind giving us an up date or an example of the hair you have drawn so we can analyze that too?

[bloo-apple]

Hair is really easy to do, but you have to get the idea across that hair is not have to look any certain way. I like to make my hair as crazy looking as possible, and then cut it down from there, also When I do hair I tend to work from the front of the hair, then to the back of the hair. and Top Down.. Hope I helped.

[Phantox]

At 3/15/10 06:35 PM, Kinsei01 wrote:

At 3/15/10 06:28 PM, Phantox wrote: I'm trying to do the hair like in the pic below but just a bit longer and not so bushy at the top. Sorry if it's not that good of an example. Only SFW pic I could find on my folders that shows so much of the hair

well lets take a look at this piece. you want to do a hair like hers, well the first thing to do is to look and see what sections she has. She has the first big one right in front, following with a second just behind that and then finally a third on the opposite side.

Hmmm... Let me try that

By matching the look of those clumps you should have a solid start to what you are looking for.
you mind giving us an up date or an example of the hair you have drawn so we can analyze that too?

I did what you pointed out. It looks way better than what I was doing before but there's still that big gash that looks very ugly

[Phantox]

At 3/15/10 06:39 PM, bloo-apple wrote: Hair is really easy to do, but you have to get the idea across that hair is not have to look any certain way. I like to make my hair as crazy looking as possible, and then cut it down from there, also When I do hair I tend to work from the front of the hair, then to the back of the hair. and Top Down.. Hope I helped.

That's what I did in some areas with the male but it came out choppy. I couldn't cut the hair well enough to make it look smooth

[Ashman]

i think for that piece, as much as i hate saying this, block hair would work better, just work out the shape of the hair then fill it in, then clean up the bottom to make it look vaguely like hair strands, kinda cartoony style if you will, either that or go crazy and hope it comes up with something useful

[Kinsei]

At 3/15/10 06:41 PM, Phantox wrote: I did what you pointed out. It looks way better than what I was doing before but there's still that big gash that looks very ugly

ok in your situation, the bunch of lines isn't working.
From the line quality I bet your using Flash.
Well I got your picture and I'm going to try and help you out, ok?
lets take a look at the live picture first again and then the illustrated one.....

[Phantox]

At 3/15/10 06:48 PM, Kinsei01 wrote: ok in your situation, the bunch of lines isn't working.
From the line quality I bet your using Flash.
Well I got your picture and I'm going to try and help you out, ok?
lets take a look at the live picture first again and then the illustrated one.....

Sure that sounds good. Will I be able to animate it later on?

[Felis]

CONCLUSION

[bloo-apple]

At 3/15/10 06:47 PM, Ashman wrote: i think for that piece, as much as i hate saying this, block hair would work better, just work out the shape of the hair then fill it in, then clean up the bottom to make it look vaguely like hair strands, kinda cartoony style if you will, either that or go crazy and hope it comes up with something useful

Ahh I see what you are doing, Your using the paint brush to do art, Here is the style I do to make hair.. I will made a quick example of my box art style...

[Kinsei]

I hope this might illustrate where to go and what to look at when it comes to the clumping of the hair

[Phantox]

At 3/15/10 06:50 PM, Felis wrote: CONCLUSION

Tried it. Didn't really come out that well...

At 3/15/10 06:53 PM, bloo-apple wrote:
Ahh I see what you are doing, Your using the paint brush to do art, Here is the style I do to make hair.. I will made a quick example of my box art style...

That does look A LOT simpler but it would look weird if I used it alongside with the male hair

[Kinsei]

At 3/15/10 06:50 PM, Phantox wrote: Sure that sounds good. Will I be able to animate it later on?

yes there will be various ways to animate simple clumped hair

I hate using the word clump when it comes to hair... it sounds so ratty.

but in flash you can animate anchor point, have many different clumps that can animate, and co on and so forth.

[bloo-apple]

All I am really trying to get at is that drawing art with a paint brush is a really bad habbit, unless you have your own style and a tablet. I believe it is a good practice to do all art with the the box tool or oval tool and just bend, curve, and skew the box. All my art was made in the same process if u want to check my art out, If you really analyze each piece you can see how I did them. But not that the reason why the lines have style to them is because I used a program that made the lines dynamically change the longer they are.

[Ashman]

At 3/15/10 06:53 PM, bloo-apple wrote: Ahh I see what you are doing, Your using the paint brush to do art, Here is the style I do to make hair.. I will made a quick example of my box art style...

one of them is pac man

heres some more hair styles to think about, bottom right is what i was talking about with blocky

i got confused as to whether it was a front on or side on shot

[Kinsei]

At 3/15/10 07:05 PM, bloo-apple wrote: All I am really trying to get at is that drawing art with a paint brush is a really bad habbit, unless you have your own style and a tablet.

There is nothing wrong with drawing with the paint bush if you can steady your self enough. and there are plenty of people who can do very well with out a tablet, when I work in Illustrator, I don't use a tablet.

I believe it is a good practice to do all art with the the box tool or oval tool and just bend, curve, and skew the box.

This.... this is.... not right. making hair with altered boxes and circles has got to be one of the worse ways to go about it. unless you can alter it enough where it doesn't feel stiff. but at that point, you might as well just do it by hand.

[Phantox]

At 3/15/10 07:01 PM, Kinsei01 wrote:
yes there will be various ways to animate simple clumped hair

I hate using the word clump when it comes to hair... it sounds so ratty.

but in flash you can animate anchor point, have many different clumps that can animate, and co on and so forth.

Sweettttt. Look at the result

At 3/15/10 07:05 PM, bloo-apple wrote: All I am really trying to get at is that drawing art with a paint brush is a really bad habbit, unless you have your own style and a tablet. I believe it is a good practice to do all art with the the box tool or oval tool and just bend, curve, and skew the box. All my art was made in the same process if u want to check my art out, If you really analyze each piece you can see how I did them. But not that the reason why the lines have style to them is because I used a program that made the lines dynamically change the longer they are.

Your art is pretty cool but ever since I started flash someone told me that using the smallest brush was the best way to make hair and that's how I've come used to it

At 3/15/10 07:06 PM, Ashman wrote: one of them is pac man

heres some more hair styles to think about, bottom right is what i was talking about with blocky

i got confused as to whether it was a front on or side on shot

I'll try one of those next

[Kinsei]

At 3/15/10 07:13 PM, Phantox wrote: Sweettttt. Look at the result

well it's getting there, but with so many lines, this would be hard to animate.
simplicity will save your sanity when it comes to animation.
but since we have a start, lets move to the next step.
Highlights and shadows.
hair is never one single color. if it is it looks unnatural.
so now that you have your mid tone, lay in some darker lines. make sure that they are each there own line, not a scribble, and then after that you need to lay in some lighter lines to add highlight

[Phantox]

At 3/15/10 07:06 PM, Ashman wrote:
one of them is pac man

heres some more hair styles to think about, bottom right is what i was talking about with blocky

i got confused as to whether it was a front on or side on shot

I tried the one on the bottom left but I keep messing up on the curves

At 3/15/10 07:18 PM, Kinsei01 wrote:
well it's getting there, but with so many lines, this would be hard to animate.
simplicity will save your sanity when it comes to animation.
but since we have a start, lets move to the next step.
Highlights and shadows.
hair is never one single color. if it is it looks unnatural.
so now that you have your mid tone, lay in some darker lines. make sure that they are each there own line, not a scribble, and then after that you need to lay in some lighter lines to add highlight

Like this?

Also, it looks like she's starting to look like a male. Y/N?

[BlackmarketKraig]

I'm no expert at hair, but the style of the face you have is so simple and clean that you're going to want to keep that style for the hair... what you have now for the hair is kind of a mess.

[Kinsei]

At 3/15/10 07:31 PM, Phantox wrote: Like this?

Also, it looks like she's starting to look like a male. Y/N?

THis is starting to look a lot better, although I meant to have the lights and darks run down the length of the hair, but this works with this style too.

As for the boy girl thing, you chose a style where gender is very very ambiguous when it comes to the faces. The face lacking any sort of curves, and no body doesn't help when determining any gender.

[bigjonny13]

At 3/15/10 07:31 PM, Phantox wrote: Also, it looks like she's starting to look like a male. Y/N?

With such basic characters, everyone's gender always becomes rather ambiguous.

[Phantox]

At 3/15/10 07:38 PM, Kinsei01 wrote:
As for the boy girl thing, you chose a style where gender is very very ambiguous when it comes to the faces. The face lacking any sort of curves, and no body doesn't help when determining any gender.

Damn that sucks. How about now, tho?

[Luxembourg]

At 3/15/10 07:31 PM, Phantox wrote:

Like this?

Also, it looks like she's starting to look like a male. Y/N?

The reason she's starting to look male (which she's not. She doesn't look male, she looks androgynous, which means she looks like she lacks a definite gender) is because she is so extraordinarily simple that she lacks and gender-defining details. There's nothing wrong with simplicity, but when you have a circular head and a circular eye and no kinds of lips, "gender" relies almost entirely on hair, body, and clothing.
The hair looks kind of messy; female hair like you're goingfor tends to be very straight and clean looking. The messiness is mostly a result of the lines you're putting on top to try and make it more detailed. Those don't look good, in all honestly. Not only that, add some hair to the back. Women rarely grow their hair out just in front, that's mostly a male phenomenon.

Sadly, I can't give you any technique advice. Just gender advice. The way I do hair is really just picturing in my head what it looks like, then drawing an outline around the head in the general shape and filling it in as I see fit. When I do more detailed drawings, I actually draw individual strands away from the top of the head, which can result in a very scribbly look if done incorrectly. Most of my girls have short hair (personal preference, I feel that long hair looks unnecessary and cumbersome on women) in many locks, so, yet again, I can't offer you much technique advice.

[Kinsei]

At 3/15/10 07:41 PM, Phantox wrote: Damn that sucks. How about now, tho?

if your trying to put it in to a pony tail, you gotta make it higher and smaller not so much hair..

[Phantox]

At 3/15/10 07:41 PM, Luxembourg wrote:

I can't offer you much technique advice.

Well I'm not really good at drawing with a mouse. I totally suck at it so I can't really do much

At 3/15/10 07:46 PM, Kinsei01 wrote:

At 3/15/10 07:41 PM, Phantox wrote: Damn that sucks. How about now, tho?

if your trying to put it in to a pony tail, you gotta make it higher and smaller not so much hair..

Wow drawing that ponytail is hard. I can't even get the curves right

[bloo-apple]

At 3/15/10 07:46 PM, Kinsei01 wrote:

At 3/15/10 07:41 PM, Phantox wrote: Damn that sucks. How about now, tho?

if your trying to put it in to a pony tail, you gotta make it higher and smaller not so much hair..

She would look good in a pony tail, great idea :P

[Kinsei]

At 3/15/10 07:56 PM, Phantox wrote: Wow drawing that ponytail is hard.

I agree, lol most of my own sketches remain bald... even the girls :P