The absolute moral lawgiver

[Drakim]

WARNING This thread contains huge amounts of sarcasm to make a point

If there exists no supreme moral lawgiver, then there is no such thing as good and evil. Subjective morals can not account for absolute good and evil. If the Nazis says that murdering Jews is a good thing then who are you to oppose them? After all, your morality isn't any higher than their morality. Without God, there is no such thing as good.

I mean, just look at how we apply this principle in everything else in our lives:

There is no such thing as good tasting food. After all, good and bad taste is subjective depending on who you ask. You might say that a dish is good but what if the Nazis disagree with you?

There is no such thing as beauty. After all, what is beautiful and disgusting is subjective depending on who you ask. You might say that a sunrise is beautiful but what if the Nazis disagree with you?

There is no such thing as fast. After all, what is fast and what is slow are subjective depending on who you ask. You might say that a car is fast but what if the Nazis disagree with you?

There is no such thing as tall. After all, what is tall and what is short are subjective depending on who you ask. You might say that a person is tall but what if the Nazis disagree with you?

So, as we don't have global taste establisher, a global beauty establisher, a global speed establisher and a global height established, would you guys please stop using these absolute terms?

[gumOnShoe]

I disagree with the assumption that there isn't necessarily (in the context of humanity) a logical moral lawgiver separate from god.

It is easier to live with your neighbor than to kill your neighbor, hence society, government, the desire for stability and the common theme through out nature of groups joining together to exist in a better form. Look at the body, a collection of living cells all working together creating a symbiosis.

I do not believe you need a God for this to exist.

[fli]

What's moral?

Yes yes, sarcasm an all... but the question exists.

Prop 8 is highly immoral to me and my friends. It's evil in its design because it hurts our families and the lives of our children.

But then you get the Catholic priest who says it's a triumph in the protection of children.

[Elfer]

I do not understand your vehement opposition to the longstanding lawgiver system.

[DelphinusMach1]

Don't be such a nihilist, mang. Nihilism is old-school.

[TokingFire]

I don't care what you say: Tasty Wheat still tastes like chicken. Or is it that chicken tastes like Tasty Wheat? Or maybe, just maybe, chicken tastes like everything......?

[Metal-Loving-Medic]

Good and Bad was created by man for "control"

If it is man-made, it does not excist
(Atleast in this case)

[TransparentPresence]

What are you an absolute anarchist? You're almost saying that there is no reason to distinguish right from wrong so we a liable to do anything?

You may not like to admit it, but the wilingness to do the right thing and to choose right over wrong is something that is inbuilt into man's nature. Now people might say that what I said is something taught in religion, but if you notice anything about all the religions in the world, no matter how different they are, they are based on the same sort of "good and evil" premises, and since religion is something invented by man then it has to be true that we should choose right over wrong.

The next problem is that there are so many people like you these days who think freedom is doing whatever you want, even if it is degrading, makes you sick like shit or whatever. In the end what we are saying is that since nobody believes in morality anymore so what's the reason we are living so we just kill ourselves and do whatever because we want to...

It's stupid I say, why do people have to keep on questioning something we already know, we know right and wrong, damn it people, you're confusing yourself for no good reason and to makes things worse you're probably confusing a whole lot more people by saying that junk.

[TransparentPresence]

Eh I just read what I just wrote for this topic and I sound so stupid...well, you believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to belive. I guess in the end I can force feed what I believe to you but you can say it's just shit, so in the end you determine what's right and wrong, no scrap that, you determine whatever you want to believe from listening to other people. But even you have to admit that sometimes you can see reality and truth in what other people are saying...

[Gunner-D]

Evil= Nazi (or equivalent hate violence)
Middle Ground= In the western world, it is called "Common Law". It is the line of civility that lawmakers have decreed allows you to be a member of society. Different levels of infractions range from jaywalking to mass murder.
I cannot comment on the eastern world as strongly, but in China the word for 'China' literally means "Middle Earth", roughly translated to mean "halfway between earth and heaven". Basically the same concept.
Good = The sky is the limit...

Take direction from whoever you feel has reached the highest good.
But beware of the bell curve of consensus morality. Deviate too far and you become outcasted and criminalized.