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It seems my dealer knows me well

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Hoogiman
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It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 09:25 AM Reply

It seems my dealer knows me well
He never asks for cash payment
He needs no money. I can tell
he bought our souls, never laments.

My loving friends can't steer me from
Those cathode visions bright and clear
All day I crave the beating drum
Of fans and motors in my ear

And when time comes to get my fix
The agitated dog within me, who's had no meat
For weeks on end, will be transfixed
On this fleshy, scrumptious treat

It seems my dealer knows me well
He knows us all as I can tell.
How do we kick this habit soon?
I just got high to come ask you.

---------------------------

Yeah just a poem that... I sat down and wrote. Because I felt that it was necessary to... (okay, sorry about that corny reference)

This is like the first draft/first edit of a poem that I wrote just then. Basically, it can be fixed up or whatever.

Do you guys like it? Any comments/criticism about it? Does it make any sense? The meter sounds very Robert-Frosty but he doesn't own any of it so baaah.

Written from: 12:42 AM-1:20 AM (if that gives you a clue)
My initials are DS-LC in case I ever enter this somewhere/sections of this page comes up so i didn't really steal it.

And yeah my first submitty-thingy to the writing forum.


I'm an animator, a (dodgy back alley) VA and also a writer.

PM me if you want feedback on your writing, music or flash to get review'd by me. I'm pseudo-qualified. Maybe.

HahaISuckMoreThanYou
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 10:15 AM Reply

At 1/28/10 09:25 AM, Hoogiman wrote: It seems my dealer knows me well
He never asks for cash payment
He needs no money. I can tell
he bought our souls, never laments.

My loving friends can't steer me from
Those cathode visions bright and clear
All day I crave the beating drum
Of fans and motors in my ear

And when time comes to get my fix
The agitated dog within me, who's had no meat
For weeks on end, will be transfixed
On this fleshy, scrumptious treat

It seems my dealer knows me well
He knows us all as I can tell.
How do we kick this habit soon?
I just got high to come ask you.

---------------------------

Yeah just a poem that... I sat down and wrote. Because I felt that it was necessary to... (okay, sorry about that corny reference)

This is like the first draft/first edit of a poem that I wrote just then. Basically, it can be fixed up or whatever.

Do you guys like it? Any comments/criticism about it? Does it make any sense? The meter sounds very Robert-Frosty but he doesn't own any of it so baaah.

Written from: 12:42 AM-1:20 AM (if that gives you a clue)
My initials are DS-LC in case I ever enter this somewhere/sections of this page comes up so i didn't really steal it.
And yeah my first submitty-thingy to the writing forum.

I don't know, it doesn't inspire much imagery when I read it. You should focus on that rather than focus on the rhyming (it just feels like your trying more to make it rhyme). Not too great of a review, since I started writing myself, but meh my two pennies.

TrevorW
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 01:23 PM Reply

Yes the meter is almost similar to Frost, however he had a much deeper message with his meter. This poem needs a lot of work in that it is extremely simple in wording and in delivery. (The meaning is pretty much bare boned too.) Poetry has so much more then meter to it. Try focusing on imagery, as this is one of Frost's strongest abilities.

Good luck and keep writing, someday you will shine.


Failure should push you until success can pull you.

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Luke
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 01:28 PM Reply

Write one about a drug addict, and make it grim.


Yeah, whatever.
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Earfetish
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 01:52 PM Reply

I think it's nice in its simplicity; poems don't always have to be airy-fairy artsy fartsy and the underlying theme gives this poem ample power. Quite often, when I read amateur poetry by people who are not trained in the art, I am moved more than some free-verse imagery-laden voyage into the writer's inner psyche.

It's these simpler poems that are remembered.

TrevorW
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 01:54 PM Reply

At 1/28/10 01:52 PM, Earfetish wrote:
It's these simpler poems that are remembered.

True, but there is still a craft to the simplicity.


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Hoogiman
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 06:48 PM Reply

I must firstly say my comments after the poem weren't very inspired or anything.

At 1/28/10 01:23 PM, TrevorW wrote: The meaning is pretty much bare boned too.) Poetry has so much more then meter to it. Try focusing on imagery, as this is one of Frost's strongest abilities.

I couldn't say much insightful at 2 AM but I wasn't trying to allude that the only thing special about this poem was meter. It was just a comment.

I thought the second stanza alluded to something. I wouldn't say this poem is about drugs. I thought I dropped hints about meaning throughout the piece, and I tried to tone down the imagery, because I personally don't like to just blurt out the literal.

I was trying to construct a metaphor and compare something to drug addiction/withdrawal symptoms, and personify something as a dealer, but obviously for you guys that wasn't conveyed too well.

Maybe it would help for you guys if you did more then skim it, because personally the type of feedback that I want to get is not to the extent of 'try more than making it rhyme' or 'this is too simple', but rather how I develop the ideas of the poem. A criticism of any devices I used and to what extent it worked.

I feel like everything so far has been a big conclusion after a vague, dismissive skim, and maybe that was because of the lack of intellect in the proceeding commentary.

At 1/28/10 10:15 AM, HahaISuckMoreThanYou wrote: I don't know, it doesn't inspire much imagery when I read it. You should focus on that

I thought maybe I hinted things somewhere but doesn't the second stanza allude to anything?!


I'm an animator, a (dodgy back alley) VA and also a writer.

PM me if you want feedback on your writing, music or flash to get review'd by me. I'm pseudo-qualified. Maybe.

TrevorW
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 06:55 PM Reply

This poem is about the struggle man feels to fit in, and how this can seemingly be achieved through drug usage/ abuse/ giving in to the whims of others. Yet still, only the dealer (or the person the character is either most interacting with in a positive manor -- minority -- or the person trying to be pleased) understands the character. There is a breakdown and the character just can't find a way to be accepted. But at least one person gets the character -- he or she can cling to that. This probably denotes a downward spiral that will only continue.

The message is good and rather clear. Like I said before...the form could use some work in my opinion.

Its a nice poem.


Failure should push you until success can pull you.

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Hoogiman
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 07:12 PM Reply

At 1/28/10 06:55 PM, TrevorW wrote: This poem is about the struggle man feels to fit in, and how this can seemingly be achieved through drug usage/ abuse/ giving in to the whims of others. Yet still, only the dealer (or the person the character is either most interacting with in a positive manor -- minority -- or the person trying to be pleased) understands the character. There is a breakdown and the character just can't find a way to be accepted. But at least one person gets the character -- he or she can cling to that. This probably denotes a downward spiral that will only continue.

Okay, that's a decent interpretation, I can see where you can pick up something like that from, but if he struggles to fit in then why does he have 'loving friends'?

See, I thought I was personifying some kind of entity that we use in our daily lives. The first stanza seems to describe this dealer, strongly as a human character. But perhaps the nature of this dealer implies some personification? I don't think the narrator can be interpreted as a first or second timer (if you take the drug addiction line), the words 'never asks' implies a long experience with this 'dealer'. Did you ever ponder why this dealer 'needs no money' or 'asks for cash payment?' Isn't that what being a drug dealer is about? The profits of (usually) illegal trade?

Now maybe the underlying theme/meaning is not clear because a lot of this poem focuses on the process of addiction itself. 'He bought our souls' is kind of a prelude to the third stanza, which describes the narrator as a horribly dependent *animal* who needs his fix.

But I thought perhaps the second stanza implies to what extent the addiction is about. Think 'cathode visions'. Think 'fans and motors'. What could this possibly allude to?

The last line 'I just got high to come ask you' doesn't follow literary convention in the sense that is poses the reader a question, but I was well aware of what very specific audience this was written for. The very, very specific audience. I might reason that 'i just got high' summarises: succumbing to the sounds of fans and motors and subjecting one's self to cathode visions, as taking drugs because of its addictive nature.

Does that clear anything up? This was not written so much to convey the underlying meaning with great obviousness but to describe the addictive nature, of what this poem describes.

Thanks for the feedback.


I'm an animator, a (dodgy back alley) VA and also a writer.

PM me if you want feedback on your writing, music or flash to get review'd by me. I'm pseudo-qualified. Maybe.

TrevorW
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 07:25 PM Reply

For me you can have loving friends and still feel alone. Acceptance is perception, and noticing acceptance is also perception. He may have an issue to where he is blind to the world -- dug induced?

At a thought: this poem gets better each time it is read. Though I stand by my comment to some degree.

You obviously understand poetry, but perhaps you need to make it somewhat clearer. I think a slight bit more imagery would make it all the better for the reader.


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TrevorW
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 07:29 PM Reply

I'm going to simplify my interpretation.

He is a slave to his addiction.

Ironically I feel that the dealer could be himself. He needs no money -- how could he pay himself? He can't escape himself, regardless of how his friends try to pull him.

And maybe...

the end tried to say this: "How can we escape our our selves...I had to get high to even try and consider that...traped"


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TrevorW
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 07:37 PM Reply

Triple post.

Could I see more of your work. With the thought put into this I would like to see what you can do.


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Hoogiman
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 08:00 PM Reply

Okay, thanks for putting in the time because I need to get some perspective to see how others interpret my poetry. All can be well with the author's intent, but his intent is never final nor definite. The meaning is what the reader takes out of it, but of course there is such thing as a wrong interpretation (like calling 'Poem' by Ernest Hemingway a discussion on whaling).

I've done a lot of study of poems which have underlying metaphors or allusions to historical events or well-known, everyday processes, to name a few. The beauty of the poetic greats is that they can discuss so many things within such a short space, I might only be able to discuss two things. But some are very clear in how their words allude to different things, where some are absolutely, completely ambiguous.

This is also my first real attempt after studying all of that, so anything deeper I attempt construct will probably come off amateurish.

I'll put my intent below, if you want to keep on guessing I guess don't read the rest of the post:

I was trying to describe the symptoms of a computer addict by comparing his addiction to a drug addiction, and personifying this entity of the computer, the one who provides 'the goods', as a drug dealer.

I tried to strike an element of mystery in the 1st stanza by describing a dealer who 'never asks for cash payment', 'needs no money' but instead, 'bought our souls'. This might be a philosophical position, but I believe technological enslavement and addiction detracts something from the human's individuality or detracts from the many other freedoms we have in our lives. I've heard and read lots of anti-technology-addiction stances and this is a general reason against addiction, we don't want to become dependent on technology.

However, this theme may not be overly clear. The only real references are, 1, the 'cathode visions', where the cathode refers to the cathode ray tubes of old computer monitors. I decided to use the word visions because upon looking up descriptions of internet addiction, staring at a 60fps flashing monitor entices us into a kind of hypnotic trance. The word 'vision' also neatly parallels with the hallucinogenic themes of drug use.

'All day I crave' describes withdrawal symptoms, which applies to any kind of addiction, but this and the animal-like descriptions of dependence in the 3rd stanza, strengthens the drug imagery a lot. I thought what might've given away this theme is 'fans and motors'... if you've ever had a crappy laptop you've heard the annoying fan noises it makes after a while.

I think if you take a drug interpretation for this poem, the 2nd stanza makes this look like a confused mess (maybe this describes the hallucination process?), but perhaps I need to explore the themes of technology, addiction and enslavement further. This is not a final copy and this will be subject to change.

If you're still with me, any thoughts on the intent and how it was conveyed?

Thanks again


I'm an animator, a (dodgy back alley) VA and also a writer.

PM me if you want feedback on your writing, music or flash to get review'd by me. I'm pseudo-qualified. Maybe.

Hoogiman
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 08:07 PM Reply

At 1/28/10 07:37 PM, TrevorW wrote: Triple post.

Could I see more of your work. With the thought put into this I would like to see what you can do.

To answer that, this is the first work that I've actually written (in a prose/poem format, I've written scripts) since completing my IB English (2 year literary analysis course) course, but I've got a half-completed extra-short story in the works. I can't say I wrote much during the last two years, so anything before that is going to be a bit rubbish.

I can say after completing a course like that, I didn't have any perspective on, or appreciation of why authors write in particular ways, and why they choose particular words.

I'll keep you posted though, and I'll respond to your poetry some time later today. I had a look and it seems like you have a good writing style, good vocabulary and a good appreciation of ze classics, but there's a couple of suggestions I might have.


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PM me if you want feedback on your writing, music or flash to get review'd by me. I'm pseudo-qualified. Maybe.

Kajenx
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 08:20 PM Reply

Come on guys, this is clearly a poem about someone addicted to furry yaoi porn. I mean his inner dog wants "meat."

LOL, srsly though, I like the abstracted nature of it, it's good not to be too literal. However, the meter only seemed to work halfway, so I had to stumble through it a bit. If you're gonna follow a beat, try to do it more clearly/assertively so I don't have to try to make stuff fit as I'm reading it.

Also, try to avoid things like "he bought our souls, never laments." It sounds forced, and thus corny, especially since you used both soul and lament in the same line, and those are standard for crappy goth poetry. :3

I think the best way to pick words for a poem is to find a set that strongly implies the mood you want to convey. If you're talking about drug addiction, think about the language people who exist in that circle might use.


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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 08:49 PM Reply

At 1/28/10 08:20 PM, Kajenx wrote: Come on guys, this is clearly a poem about someone addicted to furry yaoi porn. I mean his inner dog wants "meat."

The code has been unlocked! I'd like you to read some of the discussion in the thread, because I think I've answered quite a few things about your comments above.

LOL, srsly though, I like the abstracted nature of it, it's good not to be too literal. However, the meter only seemed to work halfway, so I had to stumble through it a bit. If you're gonna follow a beat, try to do it more clearly/assertively so I don't have to try to make stuff fit as I'm reading it.

Okay, well the meter breaks intentionally with "The agitated dog within me, who's had no meat"... to emphasise the agitation and the craving. This difference really emphasises this line. I realise there was a mistake on the fourth line of the third stanza because it lacks a syllable but if you treat it as an anacrusis then the stresses are still fine.

Also, try to avoid things like "he bought our souls, never laments." It sounds forced, and thus corny, especially since you used both soul and lament in the same line, and those are standard for crappy goth poetry. :3

There's a clear reason for this line and this is to distance this dealer as a person, but rather a personification. This comment smells of a superficial, skimmy sort of reading which is fine but I wouldn't be so quick to jump to an allegation.

I tried to craft this poem with intent and an allusion and if you can't try to appreciate the devices or what I was trying to achieve, the criticism is not at all helpful.

To reply to that and the rest of your comment, I say read the rest of the discussion (I don't want to repeat myself). Thanks.


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TrevorW
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 08:52 PM Reply

I feel that the actual addiction is moot. Let this be interpreted in the form of any addiction. For me I can figure roughly 8 ways this poem could go in meaning, all similar but all varying.

Again, meter :P


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HahaISuckMoreThanYou
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 09:01 PM Reply

At 1/28/10 08:20 PM, Kajenx wrote: Also, try to avoid things like "he bought our souls, never laments." It sounds forced, and thus corny, especially since you used both soul and lament in the same line, and those are standard for crappy goth poetry. :3

Lol, that's one line irritated me the most too because as you said it does sound forced as if the author was grasping straws for it to rhyme with the second line.

As for the author, he seems pretty disheartened by the comments. Don't take it personal I'm not saying it's shit, I'm just pointing out what I felt was wrong with it.

Hoogiman
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 09:43 PM Reply

At 1/28/10 09:01 PM, HahaISuckMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/28/10 08:20 PM, Kajenx wrote: Also, try to avoid things like "he bought our souls, never laments." It sounds forced, and thus corny, especially since you used both soul and lament in the same line, and those are standard for crappy goth poetry. :3
Lol, that's one line irritated me the most too because as you said it does sound forced as if the author was grasping straws for it to rhyme with the second line.

As for the author, he seems pretty disheartened by the comments. Don't take it personal I'm not saying it's shit, I'm just pointing out what I felt was wrong with it.

I think Trevor's been the only one of help because he has an understanding of the mechanics of poetry, and he was willing to re-read the poem and take what I said into some consideration.

I wrote this poem with a clear intent and if you actually read any of the discussion on the page, you might get some idea of what it's about. Nitpicking stuff you didn't like is barely constructive and I deeply hope that you understand that poetry is not just about stating the obvious and stating the literal.

I'll state it again because it seems many people aren't capable of reading a thread. This said line describes the dealer as cold and emotionless. I'd like to think this along with the rest of the descriptions in the first stanza, along with the other descriptions in the poem implies, or suggests perhaps there is a personification.

If your understanding of poetry is superficial, that's fine, but I wouldn't be accusing anyone of 'grasping straws'... there's many incomplete rhymes throughout.

At 1/28/10 08:52 PM, TrevorW wrote: I feel that the actual addiction is moot. Let this be interpreted in the form of any addiction. For me I can figure roughly 8 ways this poem could go in meaning, all similar but all varying.

Again, meter :P

With any poetic analysis though, you have to take into account every single word. There was a poem about a burst water pipe that would otherwise be about rain (as one person commented) if it wasn't for a couple of words that referred to a pipe in the middle of the poem.

I feel that the words 'cathode visions' and 'fans and motors' strongly hints something to do with the mechanics of a computer. How would you take into account these words to create a different interpretation? Sometimes few words mean a lot in the scheme of poetry.

If you've ever done a commentary on poetry and make an interpretation you can't ignore contrary words in the poem itself.


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TrevorW
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Response to It seems my dealer knows me well Jan. 28th, 2010 @ 09:54 PM Reply

To me I would relate the words to sealing fans, which then would make me picture a man sitting alone in a dark room objectively ripping himself to shred from the inside.

OR (with a little more correct-ness)

That life keeps going...regardless

However, I did not look of Cathode like I should have.

So I think I would have got what you were trying to say if I had looked it up.

However, to touch back on what I was saying...
Maybe he was locked in his own mechanical thinking ming and he was ripping himself apart by objectively questioning himself. A play on man vs machine? Man becoming machine like?

Eh. I should have looked it up.


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