Frame by Frame / Tweening balance.

[Cordyceps]

I find myself often doing things almost entirely frame-by-frame, because I find tweening to look unnatural for the kinds of animation that I do. Perhaps I'm going by tweening the wrong things (objects within the movie) rather than concentrating on what I should tween (backgrounds).

I'd like to hear, what is it that balances the two, for you? If I'm having difficulty with tweening, I just scrap it and go for fbf all the way, and very rarely the other way around.

Gee, these new forums are swell. This is a serious thread though, I'm having trouble.

[PBass]

I prefer frame by frame animating for any character animation because it allows my actions to look far more natural. However, it can be done extremely well ( There's this one animation I've seen where Pikachu steals Ash's hat that comes to mind) but I think tweening is more useful in comical animations. I think it would be very very difficult to carry serious storytelling with tweening, although I'd like to see it done right.

[Cordyceps]

At 1/26/10 09:41 PM, PBass wrote: I think it would be very very difficult to carry serious storytelling with tweening, although I'd like to see it done right.

It's hard to catch, but Adam Phillips does it in his Bitey flashes. Namely with the background, but there were a few spots where I noticed it on Bitey, and I've been modeling my tween use around his work.

[PBass]

At 1/26/10 09:43 PM, Digital-Terror wrote: It's hard to catch, but Adam Phillips does it in his Bitey flashes. Namely with the background, but there were a few spots where I noticed it on Bitey, and I've been modeling my tween use around his work.

I suppose I should have phrased that better, I'd like to see somebody carry some good storytelling using mostly tweening for the character animation, it'd open up a lot of different doors. Perhaps some study into traditional cutout animation could help.

[Damien]

I explained it all in my animation!

• 
  FbF Attack by GayForGirls

  Click to view.

  Type

  Movie

  Rated

  Ages 17+

But in all seriousness. For a person like me who doesn't use a tablet, tweening is gold.
If you practice on it, you can do some really nice things.
Off course a good steady frame by frame is always the best outcome. I mean, all solid good animations are done frame by frame.

But in a balance? Things that look horrible when tweened should be done frame per frame, or things that take longer to do tweened, should be done FbF.

For example (in my case)
Dust and silly lines= FbF
Smooth hair movement = FbF
---
Backgrounds, rocks, plain old objects can be done tweened.
I use tweening for my characters. Making all the different body parts different symbols. Drawn correctly makes it look very nice, and saves me alot of time. And makes the animating more enjoyable.

BUT it all comes down to what works the best for the animator.

[DrClay]

I haven't really been doing FBF in most of my times, but I plan to when I get a tablet. IMO FBF allows you to have a more flexible way of animating. Certain things are easier to do in FBF then in Tweening, and if you know FBF, you can always tween certain parts as well.

Like the Mastermind series, his mouth is FBF, but his head is often tweened.

[MindChamber]

as long as you use tweening as a means to an end its fine. Tweening usually looks artificial when its being used as a crutch. Something I like to do when i have to tween is add keyframes every to frames then remove the tween. basically turning it into a frame by frame with static images.

I do this with most of my sprites.

heres an old example

[dirtshake]

I mainly use FbF because it has WAY more freedom than tweening, but I do use it for simple things, such as moving a character after FbF-ing a walking cycle or something. Usually tweening works when its used on things that appear to be tweened in nature, such as a car, spaceship, airplane, or something similar. Mainly mechanical things when you're looking for a mechanical feel.

At 1/26/10 10:05 PM, MindChamber wrote: heres an old example

That's actually a damn good idea. I'm going to practice that for...something.

[Cordyceps]

At 1/26/10 10:05 PM, MindChamber wrote: Something I like to do when i have to tween is add keyframes every to frames then remove the tween. basically turning it into a frame by frame with static images.

Wait, so you add the tween, then convert it into a fbf with static images just for the sake of not having a tween?

[MindChamber]

At 1/26/10 10:22 PM, Digital-Terror wrote:

At 1/26/10 10:05 PM, MindChamber wrote: Something I like to do when i have to tween is add keyframes every to frames then remove the tween. basically turning it into a frame by frame with static images.

Wait, so you add the tween, then convert it into a fbf with static images just for the sake of not having a tween?

no , not just for the sake of it, but because it adds to the illusion that its frame by frame, which is more natural looking than tweening since tweens never stop moving.

better explained here

[Cordyceps]

At 1/26/10 10:25 PM, MindChamber wrote: no , not just for the sake of it, but because it adds to the illusion that its frame by frame, which is more natural looking than tweening since tweens never stop moving.

better explained here

Okay, I see what you mean now, because you're removing a frame and such. I guess I didn't read carefully enough.

[M-Shack]

Yeah I think he means that he can then go back and alter the frames that look slightly off to create a more natural movement.

Tweening and many forms of tweening are actually used for most "real life" animations. A lot of cartoons use tweens and rarely re draw everything or they have all of the poses already drawn out and swap them in and out (or trace them). 3D is basically all "tweens" and so are 2D rigs that use joints/bones. Frame by frame takes longer and you need to be more precise with your body proportions and lines because people don't usually like to see like shaky, un sure lines (but it can look smoother and more realistic). But yeah you def want knowledge of how to do both and when to use which.

[Wolfos]

I use movieclips for everything, although you gotta know some actionscripting if you wanna do that

[fatape]

I think for a blance the mind chamber route is probaly best, just make sure to draw a new body part when needed.

[Innermike]

At 1/29/10 08:33 PM, fatape wrote: I think for a blance the mind chamber route is probaly best, just make sure to draw a new body part when needed.

Not really , i think it depends , you wouldnt be able to get away tih it if say you were doing a slow mo scene where the camera rotated partially around the character it would be way to much hassle , in some cases its good though

But then again everything mindchamber does is good :)

[Ani-x]

At 1/29/10 10:29 PM, HDXmike wrote:

At 1/29/10 08:33 PM, fatape wrote: I think for a blance the mind chamber route is probaly best, just make sure to draw a new body part when needed.

Not really , i think it depends , you wouldnt be able to get away tih it if say you were doing a slow mo scene where the camera rotated partially around the character it would be way to much hassle , in some cases its good though

But then again everything mindchamber does is good :)

I do em with rotation also.
and with slow mo.

You just apply a different technique to each.

fro a rotation I will have a simpel 1 image that will move to what ever angle (giving you are not rotating in place)
I will then fbf around it.
also for slow motion, I will also just tween the image to where i want it to start and end, then fbf that

Crude example
you will see the motion tween guide, Then with out the guide
its not done yet, but you get the idea

these freaking ferrets are everywhere

Ferret-Applo Death

[PBass]

At 1/30/10 09:59 AM, Ani-x wrote: fro a rotation I will have a simpel 1 image that will move to what ever angle (giving you are not rotating in place)
I will then fbf around it.
also for slow motion, I will also just tween the image to where i want it to start and end, then fbf that

Do you usually keep the same spacing that the tweens give you, or do you change it up after you're done? I figure it'd make the movement really mechanical if you didn't.

[Ani-x]

At 1/30/10 10:03 AM, PBass wrote:

At 1/30/10 09:59 AM, Ani-x wrote: fro a rotation I will have a simpel 1 image that will move to what ever angle (giving you are not rotating in place)
I will then fbf around it.
also for slow motion, I will also just tween the image to where i want it to start and end, then fbf that

Do you usually keep the same spacing that the tweens give you, or do you change it up after you're done? I figure it'd make the movement really mechanical if you didn't.

I change them to make sure it still flows and the timing of the animation is held.
I will also have certain guide lines on there own layers to keep everything proportionate when I fbf, Because tweening a whole image from point A to B. The image will become off and loose all bounds.

as a rule of thumb when I animate, I will do certain parts at a time, Say arms, for how many frames is needed, Then go back and do legs, body head etc. This also helps keep it from being to stiff and also allowing me to adjust the proportions.
Its also good to note, You will not be drawling every single frame the tween gives you.
So if my frames are spaced at 3 or 4 apart, I will start each new drawn segment on that frame, where the tween is, or around. I don't follow the tween to the exact position.

[PBass]

At 1/30/10 10:25 AM, Ani-x wrote: So if my frames are spaced at 3 or 4 apart, I will start each new drawn segment on that frame, where the tween is, or around. I don't follow the tween to the exact position.

Ah, okay. I thought you rigidly followed the spacing the tweens and was wondering how you get your animations to look fluid that way, haha.

You have a very interesting system, I'll have to try it out sometime.

[Ani-x]

At 1/30/10 10:29 AM, PBass wrote:

At 1/30/10 10:25 AM, Ani-x wrote: So if my frames are spaced at 3 or 4 apart, I will start each new drawn segment on that frame, where the tween is, or around. I don't follow the tween to the exact position.

Ah, okay. I thought you rigidly followed the spacing the tweens and was wondering how you get your animations to look fluid that way, haha.

You have a very interesting system, I'll have to try it out sometime.

yeah, its really not that hard, You follow the same princibles of animation, you just have a tweened guide.
I don't do it all the time, just sometimes (its like animating over a moving story board)