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I've often wondered what would happen if in response to the phrase, "Meat Is Murder", someone replied, "I'm willing to grant that it's murder. The question is, do I give a shit? No."

At 1/25/10 04:34 PM, Pingu1651 wrote: There have been a million of these "I hate vegetarian" threads and I need to point out one thing. Why don't they protest against leopards for eating gazzelles, huh? Those damn penguins, going around eating fish! Why do they care so much about humans eating meat while species all over the world do the same thing? The animals we eat would be killed much more brutally in the wild anyways. PLUS these animals get the food they need to survive, along with shelter, water, and all their other need. We're just putting ourselves in the food chain, just look at the picture below this (for lack of a better Google Images picture, lol).

"Predators in the wild kill other animals out of necessity. Without doing so, they would not survive. Humans, on the other hand, kill other animals by choice. Our bodies have no need for animal flesh, milk, or eggs. In fact, medical research has consistently shown that a vegan diet is healthier than a diet heavy in animal products. Eating animals is not necessary for human survival. Rather, it is a choice we make. Is it right for us to choose to cause animals unnecessary suffering because of a mere food preference?" (Reference)

You know, I've been back and forth with myself on whether to become a vegan because of moral, environmental, and health issues. I know humans come first rather than animals, but that doesn't mean we should simply disregard their rights and treat them badly. Even being a vegetarian would be a start despite the fact they eat food that comes from animals that are inadvertently killed. Being either a vegan or a vegetarian would probably cost more money if you want to be healthy and my parents would have to make extra food. (I'd be the one paying for it, though, and maybe making it.)

In the mean time, there's a documentary you guys should check out called Food Inc., which, as it says, takes an "unflattering look inside America's corporate controlled food industry." Although the film focuses on meat farming and processing, it doesn't put down meat eaters. 80% (or maybe more) of meat comes from factory farms, where both the animals and workers are abused. Health issues with food are brought up, like the dangers of E. coli. The few corporations that are running the factory farms declined to be interviewed. I have to say the film's scary.

since the boom of vegetarianism, has the production and distribution of meat gone down? i doubt it. does the fact that one person decides to not eat meat mean that a farmer on the other side of the world is going to spare one cow from being sold to the slaughterhouse because that one person will not eat it? i doubt it. does the vegetarian movement have a chance of hell of outweighing the ever increasing meat eating population? i. doubt. it

At 1/25/10 01:03 PM, vow2thou wrote: Furthermore, meats provide a better source of protein, which vegetables and other plant sources cannot provide because of their inherent processes. To quote: "Vegetarians rely on plant sources for their daily protein. Plants don't contain the full range of essential amino acids and so are not as high in nutritional value as animal protein. But by eating a well-balanced diet that contains a variety of different foods, it's possible to consume the required amino acids." As quoted from BBC Health. Further citing this source, "You should eat two to three servings of protein every day from both plant and animal sources". Both yours, and Sensationlisms, argument that there are healthier methods of obtaining proteins other than meat is actually flawed. Meat is necessary for an optimal diet, as that is how the human body functions.

However, before you think I'm kicking off a shitfest, I will reiterate that you can live a healthy lifestyle without eating meat. If you prefer that, I implore you to do so. But please do not assert something as fact when it simply is not.

I don't understand what is being asserted as fact that isn't. Even that article said you could get all the protein and essential amino acids from plant sources alone. I don't think one is healthier than the other, either can be healthy as long as they are balanced. It comes down to preference. And I never said the alternatives were healthier, I said they were meatless.

At 1/25/10 01:03 PM, Chronamut wrote: if i ever catch a vegan eating cakes, or jello, or even most candies - I will kill them for their hypocritical actions - as all those things are made from either byproducts of meat, or things that come from animals.

If vegans do, chances are they are eating a vegan alternative. I've baked plenty of vegan cakes/cupcakes for example.

I also dont understand why vegans won't drink milk - if you lived on a farm 500 years ago - do you really think you'd have access to half the stuff you do now, like soy milk? No! You would ALSO have to slaughter your OWN animals to survive - your lifestyle choice is only convenient because society makes it convenient for you -

Having a relationship and caring for 1 cow that provides milk for you and your family is very different from supporting the current farming practices which also directly contribute to the meat industry.

if society ever tanked and we all had to fend for ourselves - or if a genocide happened like did in countries in the past - guess what - your cute little helpless pets would be the first to get axed so you could SURVIVE.

Speculation, and I doubt most vegans would turn to slaughtering animals as a first resort. Even so, that's an extreme situation would shouldn't have any bearing on everyday moral decisions.

I concede that animals are fatty - but a vegetarian diet is also super expensive

Not usually. And beans for example are much cheaper than meat. There's also the benefit of growing your own food.

- and hell - half your vegetables prolly don't even contain half the nutrients they should because when people grow vegetables now- the fertelizer only contains nutrients for 2 things - one to make your fruit look nice and perfect, and the other to make them really big - those hot house tomatos you buy in the store? Completely nutritionless.

I'm going to need sources before I believe that. Whatever you're saying, I'm sure all the growth hormones and antibiotics you consume through meat and milk don't do you any good.

if you wanna be a true vegan - rent out a giant bit of land and grow enough food to sustain yourself - or have communal lots. Alot of vegans these days are just trendy upstart shits that think theyre better than everyone else.

That's largely impractical. Not saying it wouldn't be nice. Plus I think in a way depending on society gives vegetarians more of a voice. Look at all the products and businesses developed to cater to them. Times a changing. No need to be a recluse. And it's not like buying food from others is against veganism.

At 1/25/10 01:19 PM, Chronamut wrote: im also curious - where to vegans get their dietary cholesterol? Their HDLs? Becuase those ONLY come from animal products, not plants - they come from meat, fish, milk, eggs, cheese, and butter. You may have heard the term HDL discussed in relation to blood cholesterol and heart disease. HDL is a lipoprotein, a substance found in the bloodstream, that transports cholesterol and triglycerides in the body. HDLs help remove cholesterol from the blood, protecting you from heart disease (atherosclerosis).

You aren't supposed to consume cholesterol. Vegans don't consume any, it's only in animal products. Lol, nice copy and paste job btw. And LDLS are from animal sources.
http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/cholestero l/high-cholesterol-food.html
http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/cholestero l/raise-hdl-cholesterol.html

For fats, nuts, grains, beans, and stuff provide monounsaturated and polyunsaturated. I said that earlier.

At 1/25/10 01:37 PM, blazer133 wrote:

At 1/25/10 01:19 PM, Chronamut wrote: im also curious - where to vegans get their dietary cholesterol? Their HDLs? Becuase those ONLY come from animal products, not plants - they come from meat, fish, milk, eggs, cheese, and butter.

Vegans think that fish ISN'T MEAT. how stupid is that?

You're stupid. Vegans don't eat meat or meat byproducts. THey don't eat fish. You're thinking of pescetarians, who sometimes call themselves vegetarians for simplicity. Actually makes things more complicated for real vegetarians though.

At 1/25/10 01:47 PM, HazeStigma wrote:

At 1/25/10 01:23 PM, PowerRangerYELLOW wrote: while i love meat. have any of you guys ever actually tried vegetarian food? it actually tastes good.

Yeah i had some Hungarian vegetarian food, like, this bean stuff, pretty nice.
and i've seen some chatter about vegans and milk, we're not stealing milk from the animal. we're helping it! If a cow isn't milk its in extreme pain till its been milked, he relieve it from pain.

Underage & banned. LOL.
They are impregnated. Then their calf is ripped away from them to either be turned to veal or a dairy cow. Soo then we take the milk that was produced for their offspring. And we don't treat them very well. If you don't continually impregnate a cow and force it to produce milk its entire life, you won't have that problem. And I don't know how familiar you are with breast feeding, but milk production stops naturally when you aren't forcing it to continue.

At 1/25/10 02:51 PM, Tinkco86 wrote: I wouldn't become a vegetarian because of the moralistic standpoint, but of the environmental standpoint. Google about the meat industry and the environment and see what I mean. It takes so much more energy to produce one pound of meat than it does one pound of grain.

That's still doing it for moral reasons. It's just that they are based on environmentalism rather than animal rights. But doing it for a moral reason does not mean doing it for the animals. Ya dig?

I used to work at a butcher shop and the issues about the animals life never bothered me. But the system on how it's grown, processed and shipped is what I find interesting.

Interesting viewpoint/experience.

At 1/25/10 03:08 PM, Glowstick-warroir wrote: Cakes: Are made with eggs. so I see where you're coming form there. but they don't have to be.

And milk and sometimes butter. But yes, they can be vegan.

Jello: wait what? yes, 30 years ago it was made with a chemical in fat.
but now it's all synthetic, I was just looking it up to dubble check. but, now none of the chemicals really come from animals anymore. it's all done in labs and shit.

Made from gelatin, an animal source (it's disgusting). I believe agar-agar is a substitute. And fruit pectin but maybe that's more candy than jello.

Most candys:
What candys? yes, milk cholate.
but not dark chololate.
Hardcandys are more or less harder corn syrup.
and lots of other candy are just plain old sugar

Yeah, it's a toss up with candy. Some are okay, some are not.

At 1/25/10 03:17 PM, ChampionAnwar wrote: They're vegetarian. . What if one day it's proved that fruit/veg crops suffer the exact same pain (maybe more) than ainmals when they're killed for our food?

Well according to the plants that talk to us, they like being consumed because it allows them to show us things we'd otherwise not have known. But they're celestial beings from all corners of the universe. THey're not like celery, which probably can't even show anyone anything.
Hey, if your answers going to be far fetched, so is mine. Kinda yo.

At 1/25/10 03:20 PM, BrainlessDan wrote: I hate people who think they are better than somebody just because they don't eat meat. You should of told them to go fuck themselves.

I agree. Goes both ways too. I see people thinking they are better because they DO eat meat.

At 1/25/10 04:34 PM, Pingu1651 wrote: There have been a million of these "I hate vegetarian" threads and I need to point out one thing. Why don't they protest against leopards for eating gazzelles, huh? Those damn penguins, going around eating fish! Why do they care so much about humans eating meat while species all over the world do the same thing? The animals we eat would be killed much more brutally in the wild anyways. PLUS these animals get the food they need to survive, along with shelter, water, and all their other need. We're just putting ourselves in the food chain, just look at the picture below this (for lack of a better Google Images picture, lol).

Because for humans it is not essential to consume animals. It is not humane to treat them the way we do-living wild and then being killed for food is better than being put through factory farming. Lastly, humans have morals and stuff and have mental and social capabilities that are at a high level. So we have more of a responsibility to be thoughtful and purposeful in our actions.

I don't think this message is going to reach a lot of vegetarians though, considering the website I'm on.

At 1/25/10 06:01 PM, snapper5 wrote:

At 1/25/10 12:17 PM, Sensationalism wrote:

I'm a tosser

You just proved a point, that you will never listen to a single fucking argument.

If you had left what I'd written MAYBE I'd know what you meant. I've listened to many arguments. You think I'd have become vegan if the side for eating meat had stronger points? No.

I like eating meat. I don't give a shit about animals dying for it. The way I see it is-

"Hello mister animal, You're tasty, I'm part of the most powerful species on this planet now, get in ma belleh!"

Personal preference. I don't give a fuck what anyone else eats. I only care about meeee.

At 1/25/10 06:06 PM, steph2568 wrote: The funny thing about vegans is that they don't realize that vegetables and fruits are also living beings that they are killing when they remove them from the ground/tree/etc.

Yes they fucking do. Point is that it still REDUCES suffering, pain, and intentional killing. Everyone knows it's impossible to not have anything die ever.

At 1/25/10 07:31 PM, Funkybob2 wrote: I've often wondered what would happen if in response to the phrase, "Meat Is Murder", someone replied, "I'm willing to grant that it's murder. The question is, do I give a shit? No."

That's perfectly valid. Not all "life" is equal, and we don't all agree on which lives are valuable and which are worthless.

At 1/25/10 11:14 PM, axlisbak wrote: since the boom of vegetarianism, has the production and distribution of meat gone down? i doubt it. does the fact that one person decides to not eat meat mean that a farmer on the other side of the world is going to spare one cow from being sold to the slaughterhouse because that one person will not eat it? i doubt it. does the vegetarian movement have a chance of hell of outweighing the ever increasing meat eating population? i. doubt. it

Compare the amount of vegan options in Da Vinci's time to now.
But then again eating meat is easier these days too.

Really REALLY sorry for the triple post.

At 1/25/10 10:58 PM, EclecticEnnui wrote: In the mean time, there's a documentary you guys should check out called Food Inc., which, as it says, takes an "unflattering look inside America's corporate controlled food industry." Although the film focuses on meat farming and processing, it doesn't put down meat eaters.

I will try to get that from the library. :)

They're simply talking out of their ass, If they didn't eat meat, they'd be a vegan... besides, if we didn't eat meat, we'd all be really fucked up due to lack of protein, which is what is found in steak, eggs, and many other types of meat.

Carnivore= Meat only
Vegetarian= Vegetables w/ Meat
Omnivore= Veggies & Meat
Vegan= Vegetables only

At 1/26/10 12:20 AM, wildface098 wrote: They're simply talking out of their ass, If they didn't eat meat, they'd be a vegan... besides, if we didn't eat meat, we'd all be really fucked up due to lack of protein, which is what is found in steak, eggs, and many other types of meat.

Carnivore= Meat only
Vegetarian= Vegetables w/ Meat
Omnivore= Veggies & Meat
Vegan= Vegetables only

HAHAHAHAHA no.

Carnivore= Meat only
Omnivore= Plants & Meat
Pescetarian= only fish meat & plants
Lacto-ovo-vegetarian=eats eggs, dairy, plants but no meat
Lacto-vegetarian= dairy products and plants; no meat
Ovo-vegetarian= eggs and plants; no meat
Vegetarian= Plants only
Vegan= Plants only + no animal products intentionally consumed including gelatin, leather, silk, etc. (what is considered acceptable as vegan or nonvegan can vary person to person)
Fruitarian= only plants that aren't completely killed when eaten (apples good, carrots bad)

As far as protein goes, that's been greatly discussed. Read a little.

At 1/25/10 12:51 PM, JesusBukkake wrote: Oh and btw half of fucking India lives a vegetarian / vegan lifestyle, if you reckon a veggie diet is intrinsically lacking something

india believes in a cow gods. lol

While I agree that you may feel guilty that you are killing an animal, It is the circle of life. Do you realize that a lion eats a chicken, the chicken eats a bug, the bug eats some plants and such, the plants eat the dirt, the dirt is made from the lions poop. This is the circle of life, whether you choose to be a bug eating plants, Or a lion eating chicken. It's all good, no one is wrong.

heck, I don't even care if you eat dirt, I like chicken though.

sensationalism makes a good point, we humans arent even adapted to eating meat naturally being the fact that we have short, blunt, herbivore teeth instead of sharp elongated carnivore teeth, and the fact that we cant even eat most raw meats without being poisened unless its cooked proves it, weve just evolved in a way that our bodies have evolved to gain proteins from each source, humankind excells at making up for our inferiororities in nature by adapting and creating to our environment. whether it be organic or meat, anything goes, we need to eat and we eat whatever we can. just enjoy the fact you can freely eat whenever you can (if you can)

i tried being a vegetarian, but i enjoy eating meat too much to really stop.

maybe some day in the future, but not today or tomorrow.

At 1/25/10 12:17 PM, Sensationalism wrote:

At 1/25/10 11:59 AM, Saxturbation wrote: Although i can't stand vegens/vegetarians who strut around saying im a murderer because i eat meat, they're arrogant and think they're always right and don't listen to a single argument you give them... Ugh.

Meat is murder. Not untrue. And they probably don't listen because your reasons are shit.

I must be one hell of a proud murderer I tell you what. I enjoy eating meat every single day and I never think about the animal I am eating. But hey, who gives a shit? It's not like animals don't think the same way. Plenty of animals eat meat just like most humans do, and I am sure in nature we aren't suppose to feel sympathy for the animal we kill and eat. Also, Murder is not the right wording for killing an animal because the definition of Murder is "the killing of another human being...". Most murderers don't eat the people they kill afterwords. Anyways, I hate animal cruelty, and I believe animals are important for us humans, but people need to realize that without meat the world couldn't revolve around just eating grown crops. We already have too many starving countries. All in all I believe Vegetarianism is bullshit when it is based on "animal rights".

my reply has always been
"If cows pigs and chickens were not meant to be eaten, they would have evolved by now, grew thumbs and forged weapons"

I have been approached before on campus by those hippy squads before, I usually just ignore them, because the more attention you give em, the more they go on and on in circles about the stuff.
(starting to see it in this thread)

fact of the matter is human teeth are made to both rip and grind, there for we can eat meat and veggies,
So its what ever if one person only picks one to dumb on.

"live and let live"- lol

At 1/25/10 09:41 AM, DarkSytze wrote: at my college there's this group of vegetarians that have meetings and plan out events, go around with a camera asking about people on their stance on vegetarianism, spewing their elitist self-righteous moralistic bullshit around. they thought it was funny to point out and argue with people who were eating meat in the canteen, i was eating a mighty delicious ham and cheese sandwich and then they creeped up on me, shoving a microphone up my nose and commenced the gestapo on me. :(

cool story bro?

Meh, if there's one type of veggies I can't stand, it's those guys that go around annoying people and clearly trying to look like the "smart ones"...
Everyone can try to change other people's habits, as long as they're discreet and non-annoying while they do it....

Is that like a a guy owning a Ford Focus but he has ADHD

My mom's a vegetarian and she doesn't give a fuck what other people eat

"it's ok to do what we like with animals because lions do it too"

I didn't realise you got your morality from amoral animals, you psycho

just because we used to doesn't mean we have to in more enlightened times

LMAO TOFU LION

At 1/25/10 09:41 AM, DarkSytze wrote: at my college there's this group of vegetarians that have meetings and plan out events, go around with a camera asking about people on their stance on vegetarianism, spewing their elitist self-righteous moralistic bullshit around. they thought it was funny to point out and argue with people who were eating meat in the canteen, i was eating a mighty delicious ham and cheese sandwich and then they creeped up on me, shoving a microphone up my nose and commenced the gestapo on me. :(

basically they saw i was eating meat, and pointed their finger at me and labelled me as an anti-christ. i asked what they eat, they mentioned meat substitutes, soy, tofu, fruit and whatever. i brought it up to their attention that eating meat substitutes and what-not doesn't redeem you for the suffering of animals (as they call it), and then they argued i was talking out of my arse, i pointed out that millions of animals die just because of their dieting habits, and i told them that going around pointing fingers at people whilst they're just as responsible and morally-repulsive as any carnivore out there is hypocritical and makes them stupid, i told them that a few million unintentional animal deaths shouldn't get in the way of their moral trip, and told them to continue filming, the next person they spoke to referred to me and they stopped ''filming''.

cool story bro?

Well at least you didint used your mouth and not your fists good job the world should be filled with people like you and me who dont fight over stupid shit like arguements or if you disagree on a topic. Anyways i believe that if you really want to save animals there is no point in not eating meat of a animal that was already killed i mean you arent doing anything to protect them you are actually wasting the meat

At 1/26/10 03:19 AM, Jon4life wrote: I must be one hell of a proud murderer I tell you what. I enjoy eating meat every single day and I never think about the animal I am eating. But hey, who gives a shit? It's not like animals don't think the same way. Plenty of animals eat meat just like most humans do, and I am sure in nature we aren't suppose to feel sympathy for the animal we kill and eat. Also, Murder is not the right wording for killing an animal because the definition of Murder is "the killing of another human being...". Most murderers don't eat the people they kill afterwords. Anyways, I hate animal cruelty, and I believe animals are important for us humans, but people need to realize that without meat the world couldn't revolve around just eating grown crops. We already have too many starving countries. All in all I believe Vegetarianism is bullshit when it is based on "animal rights".

Lol legal definitions. I see murder as arbitrarily taking another life. I don't think murder is wrong in every instance though. So I don't really give a fuck about the definition other people give to it, I only have to answer to myself.

As far as starving countries go, being able to produce plants for consumption would be just as advantageous as starting them up on a path that leads to factory farming, if not more. As it is, many times a rich country like America or the UK will use a more poor, less developed country for raising cattle and grazing land. So the less fortunate country gets their land destroyed, and they don't even receive the benefits the richer country does from the use of that land. That's exploitation, and it's not surprising that a country that runs on the exploitation of animals would do the same to people.

At 1/26/10 06:11 AM, Ani-x wrote: fact of the matter is human teeth are made to both rip and grind, there for we can eat meat and veggies,
So its what ever if one person only picks one to dumb on.

It's not so much we were meant to eat meat as it is we were meant to be adaptable. That's one of the great things about being human. We have the luxury of being able to subsist on what we find for the most part. We can hunt, but we can also forage. If we don't get enough meat, we won't starve like others animals may because we can just eat plants until we find some. And plants are plentiful as hell. Gotta find the right ones though. But seriously isn't it awesome?? I doubt a human could live off just meat, but that again is something that makes it easier for us anyway because finding plants is usually easier than hunting animals.

At 1/26/10 08:12 AM, STJ9medic9 wrote: Is that like a a guy owning a Ford Focus but he has ADHD

I love Bo Burnham!!! :D

At 1/26/10 10:45 AM, iwantbrainz wrote: Anyways i believe that if you really want to save animals there is no point in not eating meat of a animal that was already killed i mean you arent doing anything to protect them you are actually wasting the meat

Why is it so hard for people to understand supply and demand?? Don't you kids pay attention in school?

IF I were a mod, I'd lock every one of these threads immediately. Because then I wouldn't be tempted to waste all my time in them, showing mostly idiots information they'll ignore. :PPP

At 1/26/10 06:11 AM, Ani-x wrote: my reply has always been
"If cows pigs and chickens were not meant to be eaten, they would have evolved by now, grew thumbs and forged weapons"

The thought of cows, pigs and chickens running around with swords makes me laugh.

Meh.

Animals kill other animals to live. It's simple nature. Can't turn a lion into a vegetarian. Can't turn me into a vegetarian.

Long live animal slaughtering.

It's human evulotion that made us breed cattle and kill them for meat. Other animals, like ants, do similar stuff.

Once they start growing meat in labs and what not all over the world, aniamls will be spared, until then vegans. SHUT THE FUCK UP. Thank you. :3

At 1/26/10 02:22 AM, axlisbak wrote: sensationalism makes a good point, we humans arent even adapted to eating meat naturally being the fact that we have short, blunt, herbivore teeth instead of sharp elongated carnivore teeth, and the fact that we cant even eat most raw meats without being poisened unless its cooked proves it, weve just evolved in a way that our bodies have evolved to gain proteins from each source

That all is actually rubbish. The layout of our teeth are somewhere between that of a carnivore and an herbivore. Oh yeah, they call that an omnivore. And the raw meat thing? That is ridiculous. Yeah, if you eat raw meat that's been in the fridge for a while your chances of getting food poisoning are high since little nasties such as salmonella and whatnot have had plenty of time to colonize. But humans are perfectly capable of eating fresh raw meat without getting "poisoned". What do you think sashimi is? I'm not arguing this in favor of the stupid "do we need meat" argument, just to point out that your premise is misinformed.

Ironically, there are quite a few vegetables that we have trouble digesting raw, such as broccoli and potatoes.

At 1/26/10 03:19 AM, Jon4life wrote: I must be one hell of a proud murderer I tell you what. I enjoy eating meat every single day and I never think about the animal I am eating. But hey, who gives a shit? It's not like animals don't think the same way. Plenty of animals eat meat just like most humans do, and I am sure in nature we aren't suppose to feel sympathy for the animal we kill and eat. Also, Murder is not the right wording for killing an animal because the definition of Murder is "the killing of another human being...". Most murderers don't eat the people they kill afterwords. Anyways, I hate animal cruelty, and I believe animals are important for us humans, but people need to realize that without meat the world couldn't revolve around just eating grown crops. We already have too many starving countries. All in all I believe Vegetarianism is bullshit when it is based on "animal rights".

Lemme ask you something...do you kill the animals you eat?No, not indirectly, I mean, with your own hands?
If not, then I don't see how you classify yourself as a "murderer".
In my opinion at least, the modern meat industry is fucked up because nobody has to actually do anything to get his meat (apart from earning the money of course, but that's besides the point), so it's normal that "you don't feel bad", because you have nothing to feel bad about....
Most people couldn't stand killing animals with their own hands and then eat them (unless they're farmers of course)....but buying an animal that has been already killed by another man (or machine) from a shop and then putting it into their mouth, that, of course they can do.

At 1/25/10 10:05 AM, Auz wrote: Meh.. I got a vegan girlfriend and even she doesn't like it when her fellow vegans/vegetarians try to convert meat-eaters into their life style like that. Mostly because in 9 out of 10 cases they're just being a major annoyance and are just making an ass out of themselves. It's giving vegans a bad name.

Oh yeah, because they still try to stamp over you with leather boots ;)

On top of that, I think vegetarians are being a little hypocritical when placing arguments about animal cruelty. Eggs, leather, milk etc. are still coming from the same mistreated animals meat comes from. Hence why I support veganism much more than vegetarianism. Although of course there could be other very good reasons to become a vegetarian.

I still eat meat, use bi products of the meat industries - leather, wool, feathers, eggs, milk and the like. I'm not going to force my opinions on someone, unless in two circumstances:

1) "Think about how cruel you're being to the animals!" I counter this, by asking people to think about how cruel they're being to the vegetables. No-one ever cares about hurting a vegetable, when they eat one, do they ?!

2) Ask them if they are a Vegan. Then escalate it by asking if they're hardcore. Do they wear shoes made of wicker and never drive through towns with "ham" in the name. (English joke, sorry)

Finally, in the true Bill Bailey Style, I'll tell them that I'm a vegetarian, but I do eat fish... and duck. Well, they live in the watyer 78% of the time, they're practically fish. And I eat cows, pigs, sheep, chickens, anything that lives remotely close to water in fact. Completely changing my mind, I'll tell them that I'm a post-modern vegetarian. I eat meat, ironically.

How did they get a microphone? Also, you showed their dumbasses.