Recently, on Newgrounds and elsewhere, I've bumped into a number of posts and articles which harshly criticise those that 'express themselves with something they didn't make'. On these forums, positive and friendly as a decent number of users are, I think I've always seen comments like this since I started using the place regularly. They're not all that bad: the wordings range from things like 'well, it's a bit small-minded' through to 'you're a complete moron if you use someone else's creation to speak about yourself'.
Whatever may be the case, it's one of the most baffling things I read online.
It's like the cousin of 'ITT: opinions', or something
I say this because art (in the broadest use of the word) takes up a large part of my life, whether I'm viewing it or attempting to create something. Many, many of you guys here will be exactly the same - 'read to write', and its variations depending on the medium, is a good point for a good reason. And it works casually too, for your sheer enjoyment of something.
I know a lot of the sort of phrase from the top comes about in reactions to pop culture phenomena, the Twilight series probably being a good example for right now.
What about everyone else outside of that?
These thoughts gave me an idea. Just now, I took the photo below of my main shelf. It's not everything I have because I don't live here all the time, and some stuff is on my bed right now, but I thought what's there was fun enough to look at. Take a look at the photo, and tell me what you can see about me in there. I didn't create anything in this photo - exception: on the bottom shelf, there are some papers with notes scrawled all over them, that's it.
Two books you can't really see here are The Communist Manifesto and The Social Contract, both just to the left of Misery. The DVD that's caught by the camera flash is Deconstructing Harry. The box set behind the Film Art book is the first season of Curb Your Enthusiasm.
If you can't make some of them out, I can tell you what they are. Some of the books are for uni, but still, the fact I've chosen what to study is something in itself.
So for a bit of fun, have a go at this - and maybe have a go yourself. How do you feel about the argument that expressing yourself with other people's material is stupid?
I know this is vague - you can't tell everything about me just from this photo by any means. I just thought this might be entertaining. Audience studies are fun!
please pm wade and have him change your name to tldr.
Well most users, for one thing, that do that we see as simple spammy noobs. Not to say that most of them aren't since some of them get part of themselves from that in which the rest comes from themselves. Now I can talk all day about users who dedicate themselves wholly to just one thing, ergo Twilight :3, but the important thing is us, on NG, hate everything.
We hate most things here. Even the mods do. And when someone comes on just to tell us about how great something is and uses it for the way that they act, well...It's not ok. I, myself, have had a number of influences from things, and them toghter combine into what is me. I'd hardly think that around 10% comes from my own opinion and the rest is a melting pot of sorts.
Hell, even me posting like this, as you can see me starting about 1,000 posts back, was simply because of too many bans from Malachy. Well, it didn't start from posts, but from reviews. So reviews are what I used to express my posting habit now. Farther away from the starting they got worse, since I had nothing else new to express. They got repeated over and over again.
I, for one, think that expresing yourself with other sorts of things, is stupid yet realistic.
All of our experiances came from one sort of influence of another. And like I said, they melt toghter.
TL;DR = I agree with both sides
At 1/24/10 04:36 PM, citricsquid wrote: please pm wade and have him change your name to tldr.
I'd rather get it changed to criticsquid.
At 1/24/10 04:43 PM, letiger wrote: Well most users, for one thing, that do that we see as simple spammy noobs. Not to say that most of them aren't since some of them get part of themselves from that in which the rest comes from themselves.
Right, fair enough... although, who's to say I'm not spamming now as a result? Hmm.
Now I can talk all day about users who dedicate themselves wholly to just one thing, ergo Twilight :3
Also cool, but it's not you you're talking about then. Sure, the BBS is great for escapism, but you don't need to take everything you enjoy out of the equation to keep that up.
We hate most things here. Even the mods do. And when someone comes on just to tell us about how great something is and uses it for the way that they act, well...It's not ok.
I don't agree with either of these bits myself. As far as I'm concerned, most of my posts on NG are about things I'm interested in or things I've found online and are just simply me sharing my thoughts. While I may not be neccessarily 'expressing myself' with the material, I will be trying to voice a, usually positive, opinion on something. I think a greater part of the BBS is like this than a lot think is, but maybe I'm wrong. We may be pretty cynical and pessimistic as a community, but I certainly don't think we hate media for no reason. If I did, I possibly wouldn't be here very often.
Farther away from the starting they got worse, since I had nothing else new to express. They got repeated over and over again.
Sounds very familiar, haha.
I don't know though, why am I supposed to be such a good poster if I talk about other things a lot, according to the theory from above?
I, for one, think that expresing yourself with other sorts of things, is stupid yet realistic.
Okay, I think I see what you mean.
All of our experiances came from one sort of influence of another. And like I said, they melt toghter.
And that's a great answer. You can't argue with that in a way, but then I wonder that when talking about individuals, what's the value of the bit above, you know?
I can safely, and quite assuredly, assert that you are far too similar to me, except that you're studying the moving image, and I, as a graphic designer, am focused on the static.
I wrote a whopping three-paragraph Sherlock Holmes wannabe-esque dissection, but I read it back to myself and decided that I sounded like a massive pretentious prick.
At 1/24/10 04:58 PM, Scarab wrote:
Right, fair enough... although, who's to say I'm not spamming now as a result? Hmm.
Because you look better than us. We cannot accept that fact. You make long well thought out posts that the majority of General users cannot even begin to comprehend. Even if they do they will not respond accordingly. Take, for example, the first reply asking you to change your name to tldr.
Also cool, but it's not you you're talking about then. Sure, the BBS is great for escapism, but you don't need to take everything you enjoy out of the equation to keep that up.
I don't. Atleast I think I don't. I had to look up escapsim, and even as I did, I still cannot comprehend that statement. Take everything that I enjoy out to keep it up? Mind explaining a bit more?
I don't agree with either of these bits myself. As far as I'm concerned, most of my posts on NG are about things I'm interested in or things I've found online and are just simply me sharing my thoughts. While I may not be neccessarily 'expressing myself' with the material, I will be trying to voice a, usually positive, opinion on something. I think a greater part of the BBS is like this than a lot think is, but maybe I'm wrong. We may be pretty cynical and pessimistic as a community, but I certainly don't think we hate media for no reason. If I did, I possibly wouldn't be here very often.
We don't certainly hate the media. We hate the people in the media. The BBS is, when you get right down past the jokes, the lies, the anger, the noobs, the mods, it is a terrible, cold, pessimistic and sad place of a forum. You'd have to look deep with a year or more of experiance to understand that. FUNKbrs is a collection of all the hate in it, if I may say so myself. You, on the other hand, express yourself with long posts explaing about pretty much everything.
Barely any of us wil understand it, and the ones that do won't give two shits about it.
Farther away from the starting they got worse, since I had nothing else new to express. They got repeated over and over again.Sounds very familiar, haha.
No seriously. I had a lot more to say when my posts were like this sentance here. Which I would've replied with back in the day. "wait huh? too long make it shorter"
I don't know though, why am I supposed to be such a good poster if I talk about other things a lot, according to the theory from above?
Your posting abilities are subjective. On another forum you may be an average, or even terrible poster. On here you are the best one we have because we are all so terrible. Don't you see that?
All of our experiances came from one sort of influence of another. And like I said, they melt toghter.And that's a great answer. You can't argue with that in a way, but then I wonder that when talking about individuals, what's the value of the bit above, you know?
There is no "individual". Only a combination of other people, which they got from others. Barely any part of us is different except for the experiances we experiance alone. Take a child who only knows English, and thrust it out into the desert to survive at a young age. Assmuing it survived, what would the child in question be like? Too young to remember parents, knows English, has no people influence.
Sorry this came late, I was playing MW2 when you posted.
At 1/24/10 04:36 PM, citricsquid wrote: please pm wade and have him change your name to tldr.
I lol at your post.
At 1/24/10 05:14 PM, vow2thou wrote: I can safely, and quite assuredly, assert that you are far too similar to me, except that you're studying the moving image, and I, as a graphic designer, am focused on the static.
Yeah, as much as Easy Riders Raging Bulls is there for pleasure as much as it is for work, I am obviously studying film. It was an interesting reply, haha.
I wrote a whopping three-paragraph Sherlock Holmes wannabe-esque dissection, but I read it back to myself and decided that I sounded like a massive pretentious prick.
We are probably the best critics of ourselves, if we're aware of how loud we are. I don't know if that sounds bad, but I think it's more or less true. I was thinking that some would call me pretentious actually due to the photo: in particular, the 'qatsi' series is in there, and they fall right into pretentiousness if that's how you've read them.
At 1/24/10 05:28 PM, letiger wrote: I don't. Atleast I think I don't. I had to look up escapsim, and even as I did, I still cannot comprehend that statement. Take everything that I enjoy out to keep it up? Mind explaining a bit more?
What I was saying was that some users make it seem as if that to enjoy the BBS to the full, you need to disregard everything about your real life and become something else. As far as escapism goes, that is to escape from reality and move into a different world, the BBS is a great thing for it. Hell, the Internet in general is great for it, and our actions on the net are probably equivalent to what Mr. Freud said about dreams in an odd way.
Even with this though, my view is that you can enjoy the Internet and still acknowledge the fact that you're human, that you have your own interests, and that it's more than okay to discuss them.
We don't certainly hate the media. We hate the people in the media.
And this is one reason why I like coming here - I share this view a great deal of the time. What needs to be realised though is that the media, that is the press, aren't creating art outside of journalism. A film, piece of music, artwork, piece of literature, can be looked at from your own point of view. You don't necessarily have to look at it from a 'conservative' or 'liberal' point of view.
The BBS is, when you get right down past the jokes, the lies, the anger, the noobs, the mods, it is a terrible, cold, pessimistic and sad place of a forum. You'd have to look deep with a year or more of experiance to understand that.
I've been here for a while myself, since mid-2006 I believe, though I haven't checked. Like I say, it's a relatively dark forum where freedom of speech is an even greater king than Tom Fulp, in theory, amongst the majority at least - including the staff to a decent degree (not counting what's specified in the rules - most 'political' comments in General will lead to comments on the freedom of speech 95% of the time. Possibly not relevant, but it's a feature of the BBS I think is relevant in getting this idea ot the way.
A lot of us may cynical and pessimistic. I think that's granted. We're all still human (bar Sherbert), and therefore we have our likes and dislikes, stress on the likes. Even Funk has his interests, which you can pick up on in his politics, and the things he likes to talk about. They may not be mainstream, but it's still something he's using to positively (in a way) express himself.
Barely any of us wil understand it, and the ones that do won't give two shits about it.
That's probably because, essentially, it's just an Internet forum, albeit an Internet forum where I've seen opposing views to my own to be a problem in the place being a good place to use. Hey, I have no life, it's cool!
Your posting abilities are subjective. On another forum you may be an average, or even terrible poster. On here you are the best one we have because we are all so terrible. Don't you see that?
I wouldn't say 'the best one', but I know that it's all subjective. It's part of the setup, but what I'm getting at is that if what I'm personally interested in is not worth talking about due to it not expressing what is Scarab the person, then am I spamming? I don't think so obviously - my lurking of the sort of thing I'm talking about makes it more like it's in that arena.
There is no "individual". Only a combination of other people, which they got from others. Barely any part of us is different except for the experiances we experiance alone.
The strangest thing, as far as I'm concerned, is that our experiences as individuals are us, so to speak. I pick up my artistic interests, yes, that's visible in some way from my photo, and I learnt a lot from my parents, my schoolmates, my teachers, etc. but my reactions are uniquely me. That's why I post like I do on Newgrounds, because I feel as though I'm writing it up in a decent way that speaks my own feelings. Some part of me is less concrete. The fact that I'm British for example says a lot about me and what my attitudes might be... but the great majority of my favourite filmmakers, writers, etc. are actually American. My question is, where's the more individual explanation for that. Maybe it's because a great deal of media is American in origin, but at the same time I have an Italian film, a Belgian film, a Brazillian film and a collection of Soveity films in my photo. My interest in those is less explicable without resorting to the individual option, but maybe I'm wrong in a way, out of where I've looked.
As far as I'm concerned, I was curious. I picked up a book or two on film, read them, and discovered the greatest of film. I felt as though I should see them and read them myself.
This is getting hard for my wee brain. Seriously. If you look back into my past posting history, you'll see why. But I'll try. Hmm. 4,000 Characters left. Maybe on the next one or two not quoting it so that I may start anew with 7,000+ characters. Oh and you accidentatly didn't quote something I said. The pessimistic paragraph.
At 1/24/10 08:00 PM, Scarab wrote:
What I was saying was that some users make it seem as if that to enjoy the BBS to the full, you need to disregard everything about your real life and become something else. As far as escapism goes, that is to escape from reality and move into a different world, the BBS is a great thing for it. Hell, the Internet in general is great for it, and our actions on the net are probably equivalent to what Mr. Freud said about dreams in an odd way.
In my mind, anyways, to enjoy the BBS you would mainly have to go with their flow. Follow them and their ideas. If you do not then well... Go to threadgrounds find threads by me with the words, "Why I try to post good now". That's what would happen. The internet helps us escape from reality, and yet traps us by it. I would also like to point out that I know nothing about Freud or his works mind you.
Even with this though, my view is that you can enjoy the Internet and still acknowledge the fact that you're human, that you have your own interests, and that it's more than okay to discuss them.
It's more than ok to discuss only if you get what you are looking for. Try typing out something 2x longer than what you did, and having only 1 line sarcastic remarks about it. You might not care, but I do. You know, two sides of the same coin goes a long well here.
And this is one reason why I like coming here - I share this view a great deal of the time. What needs to be realised though is that the media, that is the press, aren't creating art outside of journalism. A film, piece of music, artwork, piece of literature, can be looked at from your own point of view. You don't necessarily have to look at it from a 'conservative' or 'liberal' point of view.
It can be looked at from your point of view. People, generally, look at the from the conservative or liberal point of view. Everyone else is either shunned or ignored; sometimes even congratulated, but even less so. And the media isn't just the press. I know you know, but read that paragraph over again. The media is simply everything that encompasses us. Everything that we feel the need to talk about.
I've been here for a while myself, since mid-2006 I believe, though I haven't checked. Like I say, it's a relatively dark forum where freedom of speech is an even greater king than Tom Fulp, in theory, amongst the majority at least - including the staff to a decent degree (not counting what's specified in the rules - most 'political' comments in General will lead to comments on the freedom of speech 95% of the time. Possibly not relevant, but it's a feature of the BBS I think is relevant in getting this idea ot the way.
Most things in general are given the freedom. Like the one topic "Fuck Haiti". But even so, they are not always well expressed. Only to be given the same kind of response in return. And our freedom of speech kises Tom's ass so much whenever he posts. Like when Pimp does. Imagine if Pimp had no posts and decided to whip up a random one in a random topic. What would be the response?
A lot of us may cynical and pessimistic. I think that's granted. We're all still human (bar Sherbert), and therefore we have our likes and dislikes, stress on the likes. Even Funk has his interests, which you can pick up on in his politics, and the things he likes to talk about. They may not be mainstream, but it's still something he's using to positively (in a way) express himself.
Yes. But when we see him post, we as in the majority, we talk about all the hate then proceed with wiping his golden bottom. Just because he was a mod. In a position of power. Now that he is not, he will get less respect soley because of that fact. From us, the users. It may even be subconscious in a few of us.
That's probably because, essentially, it's just an Internet forum, albeit an Internet forum where I've seen opposing views to my own to be a problem in the place being a good place to use. Hey, I have no life, it's cool!
An internet forum. What is it that makes us want to post here? Fame? Well it's not THAT popular. It is, essentially, worthless, and I have no shame in admitting that. Infact, our own conversation can be summed up by the majority of users in this word, "Tl;dr".
I wouldn't say 'the best one', but I know that it's all subjective. It's part of the setup, but what I'm getting at is that if what I'm personally interested in is not worth talking about due to it not expressing what is Scarab the person, then am I spamming? I don't think so obviously - my lurking of the sort of thing I'm talking about makes it more like it's in that arena.
Not the best? Weren't you voted best poster a few times already? And if what you are talking about is not worth talking about, the thread will die. No lock or ban because we view you as good. If another person, who is not good, makes the same thing, but with a much less quality of posting, it will get that. Hell even if you did you might not get banned...the first time.
The strangest thing, as far as I'm concerned, is that our experiences as individuals are us, so to speak. I pick up my artistic interests, yes, that's visible in some way from my photo, and I learnt a lot from my parents, my schoolmates, my teachers, etc. but my reactions are uniquely me. That's why I post like I do on Newgrounds, because I feel as though I'm writing it up in a decent way that speaks my own feelings. Some part of me is less concrete. The fact that I'm British for example says a lot about me and what my attitudes might be... but the great majority of my favourite filmmakers, writers, etc. are actually American. My question is, where's the more individual explanation for that. Maybe it's because a great deal of media is American in origin, but at the same time I have an Italian film, a Belgian film, a Brazillian film and a collection of Soveity films in my photo. My interest in those is less explicable without resorting to the individual option, but maybe I'm wrong in a way, out of where I've looked.
Hmm. I wonder about this thing. Us. What we actually are. Even if we take the same two things and put them in the same enviroment down to the atom; will they turn out different? Maybe. Maybe if the test is large enough. Even with the same experiance, we turn our different. But...what is it that does that? Is it something in our brain, our genes, what? Even if they were given EVERYTHING, and I mean everything down to when the parents were doing the nasty, how could it turn different? Where is the hidden factor?!
Oh yes. Another thing here. Do not quote this. I only have 1,000 characters left and there were 4,000 when I started replying. Simply reply in paragraph form please and we can start this over again.
At 1/24/10 04:36 PM, citricsquid wrote: please pm wade and have him change your name to tldr.
Both of them should.
At 1/25/10 05:09 AM, Qonquerer wrote:At 1/24/10 04:36 PM, citricsquid wrote: please pm wade and have him change your name to tldr.Both of them should.
I'd prefer tldr2 thank you very much. Wait a minute. Considering who I am I would rather assume a name most fitting to my character outside of this topic. Funny though. There have only been 3 replies NOT by me or Scarab. And there are 200+ views? I guess I was right in some part. Scarab is just too good, and the people that do understand don't give two shits.
At 1/24/10 04:36 PM, citricsquid wrote: please pm wade and have him change your name to tldr.
As do I. Hell. I can barely even make 2 line posts!
At 1/25/10 06:54 AM, Daimonas wrote:At 1/24/10 04:36 PM, citricsquid wrote: please pm wade and have him change your name to tldr.As do I. Hell. I can barely even make 2 line posts!
Funny. Simply funny. Why? Because all the posts in this topic that are actually on-topic are by my and Scarab, the OP. Everyone else is talking about how long the posts are. Here's a hint. Read a book. Even an elementary novel is a bit longer than all of the posts in this thread combined. Not counting the quoted parts mind you.
Walls of text everywhere! NO ESCAPE!
Will return when I can be fucked to read.
*No longer PaperBoy, due to a technicality involving a 'missing' energy drink, I am now TiredBoy...
General Forum
The Funniest BBS Typo
At 1/25/10 07:39 AM, TiredPaperBoy wrote: Walls of text everywhere! NO ESCAPE!
Will return when I can be fucked to read.
Hehe. And that is something else related to the post above. I guess this thread has nothing else left if Scarab does not post in it. I guess this is another way relating to our discussion. About how the people won't give two shits. This case, however, they can't be bothered to read and instead post about that. Freedom of speech, as we were talking, at it's best.
Even if it was not pertaing to the topic at hand. This is another way to express yourself. Through the media. That is to say if the media is something that we all talk about in one way or another. Even school could be consiedred in that sense. This is how they choose to view it. Two sides of the same coin. While you are the more optimistic side, I'd consider myself to be the pessimistic side about the forums.
You always look up and that seems to amaze me. I keep my head just above the water until I see something great. This thread is something. Even made me post well, something that could only be done before in the Philosophy crew. You'd do well there.
City of God!
Man Bites Dog!
The Eisenstein Box Set!
You have great taste, sir!
I would never express myself using other people's media.
Aigis - Putting the 'ai' back in 'Aigis'.
At 1/25/10 08:39 AM, Aigis wrote: I would never express myself using other people's media.
What is this, "Persona 3" I am hearing about?
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