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At 8/10/13 04:44 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: You know, there's a good chance you've met a few atheists before that you didn't know were atheists because they didn't talk about it. I'm sure there are plenty of casual acquaintances of mine that either don't know I am or didn't know for a long time. In fact, a good portion of my father's side of my family still might not know.

Definitely! But those I later find out are atheists turn out to be the same ones I dislike.

That dang loud minority. Happens with a lot of groups.

At 8/10/13 05:31 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: That dang loud minority. Happens with a lot of groups.

Doesn't happen nearly as much with other groups I meet.. maybe for you and others but not me.

At 8/10/13 05:47 PM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/10/13 05:31 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: That dang loud minority. Happens with a lot of groups.

Doesn't happen nearly as much with other groups I meet.. maybe for you and others but not me.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

At 8/10/13 06:37 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote:

At 8/10/13 05:47 PM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/10/13 05:31 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: That dang loud minority. Happens with a lot of groups.

Doesn't happen nearly as much with other groups I meet.. maybe for you and others but not me.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

I know, thanks.

At 8/10/13 06:39 PM, NightmareWitch wrote: I know, thanks.

Great, then you know why everything you've said in this thread about atheists "in general" is incorrect.

At 8/10/13 06:41 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote:

At 8/10/13 06:39 PM, NightmareWitch wrote: I know, thanks.

Great, then you know why everything you've said in this thread about atheists "in general" is incorrect.

It's incorrect that I hate atheists in general?

At 8/9/13 07:42 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: Moral philosophy. Any atheist can have that.

Can you? You can only have relative morality. An atheist who believes noone controls him may do whatever he wants so long as it's good for him. Atheism causes immorality.

At 8/10/13 06:43 PM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/10/13 06:41 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote:

At 8/10/13 06:39 PM, NightmareWitch wrote: I know, thanks.

Great, then you know why everything you've said in this thread about atheists "in general" is incorrect.

It's incorrect that I hate atheists in general?

Yes. You might hate the atheists that you have specific knowledge of, but you know absolutely nothing about atheists beyond the ones you've had contact with. As such, drawing any valid conclusions about atheists "in general" is impossible.

At 8/10/13 07:18 PM, Ononymous wrote:

At 8/9/13 07:42 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: Moral philosophy. Any atheist can have that.

Can you? You can only have relative morality. An atheist who believes noone controls him may do whatever he wants so long as it's good for him.

Normally I might give a serious response, but this a known shit posting troll, as is clearly evidenced by its post history.

Atheism causes immorality.

Case in point.

At 8/10/13 07:36 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: you know absolutely nothing about atheists beyond the ones you've had contact with.

I know a lot about atheists because they are atheists.

Atheists do not believe in a deity. Atheists do not believe in higher laws of a deity. Atheists do not believe in anything having to do with a deity. As far as things which there might be very few exceptions..... Atheists do not believe in the spirit and soul. Atheists do not believe in blessings and curses. Atheists do not believe in realms other than this one. Soooo..

Atheists do not adhere to any spiritual law. Atheists do not base morality on spiritual absolutes. Atheists do not consider the spiritual health of themselves or others and are more prone to actions which ignore this. Atheists do not attempt to bless anyone. Atheists do not respect nature beyond its physical use. Atheists do not plan for an afterlife.

I cannot expect an atheist to follow any form of spiritual morality. I cannot expect an atheist to care for others except when empathy causes them to or they are forced. But I can definitely expect an atheist to be self-serving because of everything above.

Are there exceptions? Maybe.
Have I met any? Nope.

I know about atheists because they are atheists.

No, all you can know about any given atheist without meeting them is that they are not a theist.

Atheists do not respect nature beyond its physical use.

Oh, so there aren't any environmental activists who are atheists?

At 8/10/13 09:01 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

Atheists do not respect nature beyond its physical use.

Oh, so there aren't any environmental activists who are atheists?

Is that what I said?

At 8/10/13 09:10 PM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/10/13 09:01 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

Atheists do not respect nature beyond its physical use.

Oh, so there aren't any environmental activists who are atheists?

Is that what I said?

I took it to mean that atheists never care about nature.

At 8/10/13 09:16 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

At 8/10/13 09:10 PM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/10/13 09:01 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

Atheists do not respect nature beyond its physical use.

Oh, so there aren't any environmental activists who are atheists?

Is that what I said?

I took it to mean that atheists never care about nature.

"beyond its physical use"⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣

At 8/10/13 09:20 PM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/10/13 09:16 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

At 8/10/13 09:10 PM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/10/13 09:01 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

Atheists do not respect nature beyond its physical use.

Oh, so there aren't any environmental activists who are atheists?

Is that what I said?

I took it to mean that atheists never care about nature.

"beyond its physical use"⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣

Right, and environmental activists care about more than it's "physical use". What I'm getting from this is that you think atheists only ever wish to exploit nature and don't care about anything else. No atheist animal lovers or vegan tree huggers.

At 8/10/13 09:26 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: Right, and environmental activists care about more than it's "physical use".

You're the one talking about activists.. not me.

What I'm getting from this is that you think atheists only ever wish to exploit nature

Nope...

I'm trying to understand your point here...

At 8/10/13 09:32 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: I'm trying to understand your point here...

I mean I didn't type a whole paragraph on nature.. I can't make my point more simple than one sentence.

At 8/10/13 09:42 PM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/10/13 09:32 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: I'm trying to understand your point here...

I mean I didn't type a whole paragraph on nature.. I can't make my point more simple than one sentence.

You're still not explaining that bit.

Either way, religion doesn't necessarily put you at a higher moral standing than an atheist. But I'd still like to knkow what you were suggesting about atheists not respecting nature beyond its "physical use".

At 8/10/13 09:47 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: Either way, religion doesn't necessarily put you at a higher moral standing than an atheist.

Not to an atheist I guess.

But I'd still like to knkow what you were suggesting about atheists not respecting nature beyond its "physical use".

Atheists don't see nature as anything but physical..

At 8/10/13 10:01 PM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/10/13 09:47 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: Either way, religion doesn't necessarily put you at a higher moral standing than an atheist.

Not to an atheist I guess.

.

At 8/10/13 10:18 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

At 8/10/13 10:01 PM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/10/13 09:47 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: Either way, religion doesn't necessarily put you at a higher moral standing than an atheist.

Not to an atheist I guess.

.

We would need the same moral laws for me to agree or disagree. My kind's morality is not the same as yours (I don't think).

At 8/10/13 08:45 PM, NightmareWitch wrote: Atheists do not believe in a deity. Atheists do not believe in higher laws of a deity. Atheists do not believe in anything having to do with a deity.

Out of all the things you mentioned in this post, these three are the only ones that are inarguably true for all atheists based on the definition of atheism (from Greek, "a"+"theos" = no god). It is the lack of belief in any gods, and as such, nothing could possibly originate from a god.

Let's look at your other claims.

Atheists do not believe in the spirit and soul. Atheists do not believe in blessings and curses. Atheists do not believe in realms other than this one.

Atheists do not adhere to any spiritual law. Atheists do not base morality on spiritual absolutes. ... Atheists do not attempt to bless anyone. ... Atheists do not plan for an afterlife.

Each of the above characteristics may apply to someone who is an atheists. Now, a lot of atheists are skeptics when it comes to all kinds of supernatural or unsubstantiated beliefs, but not all atheists. Some might believe in spirits, mysticism, astrology, etc, while not believing that any of these originate from a deity. There are approximately 150 million Theravada Buddhists around the globe who would be classified as atheists as they do not believe in gods and reject that the Buddha had anything divine about him, and yet they believe in reincarnation, karma, and Nirvana.

Atheists do not consider the spiritual health of themselves or others and are more prone to actions which ignore this.

What you refer to as "spiritual health", I would refer to as psychological or emotional health. It is absurd to think that atheists do not care about the feelings or emotional well being of others. Atheists feel empathy, moral outrage, love, sorrow, whatever emotion you would care to name, just as much as a religious person might.

If you don't feel these things, you have a mental illness called sociopathy.

Atheists do not respect nature beyond its physical use.

Nonsense. I would argue that atheists respect nature even MORE that certain religions do. Take the Bible, which declares that all the plants and all the animals on the planet were put there only to benefit and be used by humans (Genesis 1:29, Genesis 9:3). It was through science that we finally figured out that we couldn't keep using the resources of the planet as if there was an infinite supply of it.

Furthermore, all humans are predisposed to love nature. Studies have shown that people who regularly come into contact with nature have lower levels of stress and stress related illnesses than people who have less regular contact with nature.

Yes, even atheists enjoy long walks on the beach.

I cannot expect an atheist to care for others except when empathy causes them to or they are forced.

The same is true for anyone regardless of their religious belief. Luckily, human beings are overwhelmingly good.

But I can definitely expect an atheist to be self-serving because of everything above.

None of what you have described above accurately represents a characteristic common to all or even most atheists (except for the first three). Your conclusion is based on bias, prejudice, poor logic, and ignorance.

At 8/11/13 02:01 AM, Angry-Hatter wrote: What you refer to as "spiritual health", I would refer to as psychological or emotional health.

No. It's not the same thing, but you're atheist so I don't expect you to know or see the difference.

Atheists do not respect nature beyond its physical use.

Nonsense.

Nothing you said is beyond physical.. so I'm not sure why you typed all that out.

I cannot expect an atheist to care for others except when empathy causes them to or they are forced.

The same is true for anyone regardless of their religious belief. Luckily, human beings are overwhelmingly good.

No I can expect certain religious people to care for others for reasons other than biological.. I can't expect that of atheists because the vast majority see humans as nothing more than animals.

At 8/11/13 07:02 AM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/11/13 02:01 AM, Angry-Hatter wrote: What you refer to as "spiritual health", I would refer to as psychological or emotional health.

No. It's not the same thing, but you're atheist so I don't expect you to know or see the difference.

Then please elaborate what you mean when you say "spiritual health".

Atheists do not respect nature beyond its physical use.

Nonsense.

Nothing you said is beyond physical.. so I'm not sure why you typed all that out.

Right, so name me a few "non-physical" ways in which theists are able to enjoy nature but atheists aren't.

I cannot expect an atheist to care for others except when empathy causes them to or they are forced.

The same is true for anyone regardless of their religious belief. Luckily, human beings are overwhelmingly good.

No I can expect certain religious people to care for others for reasons other than biological.. I can't expect that of atheists because the vast majority see humans as nothing more than animals.

There you go with your bullshit generalizations again. It does get tiring to keep repeating the same thing over and over, but here goes: you CANNOT draw conclusions about the moral philosophy and views of a person based on such a narrow criteria as whether or not they believe in a god or gods. It's about time you cited some actual EVIDENCE for your claims on the character of the "vast majority" of atheists, evidence that isn't based solely on your experience with the small handful of people that you've met. Do you really think that the vanishingly small number of atheists you know are truly representative of the MILLIONS of atheists living across the globe? If you do, then you are grossly ignorant.

At 8/11/13 12:22 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote:

What you refer to as "spiritual health", I would refer to as psychological or emotional health.

It's emotional health, she just doesn't understand it from that perspective (or is playing that up). Having good record with society, having wronged no one, believing that you will be rewarded by God for your good work, and having good psychological/physical health are all components of "good spiritual health".

At 8/11/13 12:22 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: Then please elaborate what you mean when you say "spiritual health".

The relationship of living things with themselves and the world. It can play a role in certain emotions but the spirit is not the brain. The spirit is what makes things live and when it departs from the host we say the animal or plant etc. died. You can influence the spirit of other living things in positive or negative ways but explaining the whole process would take awhile to explain and no one here would care anyway.. but you simply need help from other sprits or beings outside of the physical.

Nothing you said is beyond physical.. so I'm not sure why you typed all that out.

Right, so name me a few "non-physical" ways in which theists are able to enjoy nature but atheists aren't.

I didn't say enjoy.

No I can expect certain religious people to care for others for reasons other than biological.. I can't expect that of atheists because the vast majority see humans as nothing more than animals.

There you go with your bullshit generalizations again.

Do you see anything more to humans than our physical traits?

At 8/11/13 12:35 PM, 24901miles wrote: having wronged no one

This is the only one that can count.. but it's only half of it. Like food and water spirits need nourishment. For example you can have pets and never hit or kick them.. but if you don't feed them then you are ignoring their health and it might as well be hitting and kicking.

At 8/11/13 12:39 PM, NightmareWitch wrote:

At 8/11/13 12:22 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: Then please elaborate what you mean when you say "spiritual health".

The relationship of living things with themselves and the world. It can play a role in certain emotions but the spirit is not the brain. The spirit is what makes things live and when it departs from the host we say the animal or plant etc. died. You can influence the spirit of other living things in positive or negative ways but explaining the whole process would take awhile to explain and no one here would care anyway.. but you simply need help from other sprits or beings outside of the physical.

Ah, so basically it's the health of that thing for which there is absolutely no evidence of? Ok, gotcha. Yeah, well, like I've said, there are definitely some atheists who believe in what you might refer to as a spirit. 150 million Theravada Buddhists to name a few, however many new-agey hippy atheists there are to name some more.

Personally, aside from lacking a belief in any kind of god or gods, I am skeptical towards any claim that isn't supported by any evidence. As there is no satisfactory evidence for the existence of souls, or spirits, I can see no good reason for believing in them, nor in the health or lack thereof of such a thing. I suppose that does leave me rather deaf when it comes to tending to the "spiritual health" of myself or others, much like I might have trouble assessing the strength of my relationship with God (seeing as you can't have a relationship with something which doesn't exist).

Nothing you said is beyond physical.. so I'm not sure why you typed all that out.

Right, so name me a few "non-physical" ways in which theists are able to enjoy nature but atheists aren't.

I didn't say enjoy.

Fine, name me a few "non-physical" ways in which theists RESPECT nature where atheists don't.

Do you see anything more to humans than our physical traits?

Before I answer, I think it is important to note the relevant definition of the word "physical", i.e. "of or pertaining to that which is material". In other words, things that are made of stuff (matter). That said, the ENTIRETY of the contents of the universe which we occupy is physical. In order for something to be considered non-physical, it has to either not exist, or it has to be somehow exist outside of the universe. You cannot conclusively prove a negative (i.e. that something doesn't exists), and we have yet to discover any evidence to suggest that there is anything beyond the physical universe we occupy, nor have we conceived of any way in which to investigate such a hypothetical location.

Humans are part of the physical universe, so yes, humans are purely physical, just like everything else that exists. I don't see that as a sad fact of the universe, far from it, I believe that it makes human life all that more amazing and awe inspiring. That through the purely chemical and electrical processes of the human brain, something so potent as love can be produced! By all accounts, biological life in the universe is extraordinarily rare, yet we have it in abundance on our lonely little planet. Not only that, we humans have evolved the ability to comprehend and appreciate at least part of the complexity and beauty of this universe, and we have only begun to scratch the surface of the available knowledge out there. I want to spend my life enjoying it to the fullest. I want to learn as much as I can about anything and everything, I want to eat good food, I want to feel sand and grass and mud between my toes, I want to share laughs with my friends and family, I want to talk about nonsense and I want to talk about serious matters, I want to love and love and love, I want to have kids of my own and watch them learn more about this amazing world than I could ever have imagined possible, and I want to enjoy it all alongside my fellow human beings. I want every single human on this planet to have the opportunity to peacefully and joyfully live their short lives to the fullest. I want them to realize the beauty of something that is far more wonderful than magic; the purely physical.

No, I don't see anything more to people than their physical traits. To ask for more would be greedy.