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At 1/9/10 04:35 AM, Blackhole12 wrote:

At 1/8/10 10:26 PM, Gravey wrote: A giant rant about how much blackhole12 sucks

Why are you bringing this up? I mean, sure, you can tell me I'm a horrible judge and that my reviews are abusive pointless and idiotic, but I'm not a judge anymore. I was just a stand-in judge, and as I explained before, we have 3 judges so that if some people didn't like my review the scores would even out. This whole mess had been resolved and I'm no longer a judge since I'm a participant in the contest itself, so if you want to tell me I'm an ignorant dickhead, please do so in a PM, and I will gladly explain myself to you.

Bottom-line: I'm not a judge anymore.

I think Gravey is trying to say that you might need to work on constructive criticism. Personally, I think constructive criticism has more good points than abusive criticism like what Gravey pointed out in your review. However, since you were only a filler judge, the situation should disarm itself.

At 1/9/10 04:35 AM, Blackhole12 wrote: So if you want to tell me I'm an ignorant dickhead, please do so in a PM, and I will gladly explain myself to you.

This.

At 1/8/10 10:26 PM, Gravey wrote: I have noticed a major flaw in this entire competition, and it's name is Blackhole12. I think he should be removed as a judge because his reviews of certain songs are not based on whether the songs are good themselves, but rather whether or not they are the form of music he typically listens to. If this is simply going to be a popularity contest based on making songs that the judges can say "OMG! I listen to this sort of stuff all the time...10/10!!!", then what is the point?

Dude, I couldn't agree more. That is absolutely no way to judge a song. I listened to the song myself, and indeed I didn't like it because of its poor production quality and the fact that it sounded like a wall of noise from hell (namely because everything was turned to 11, as Spinal Tap would say lol), but not because I hate metal (which I don't; it's one of my favorite genres lol). A judge seriously needs to be open. Look: I was in a band once while I was in high school, and our frontman was a complete douche because he wasn't willing to look outside the box. Nothing worked because he argued against everybody else's ideas, and for that, the band was lame, and I quit. You accomplish nothing by keeping your ears silent to the world. IMO, it's soooooooooooo much better to be open-minded to every type of genre, because there's badass songs wherever you go. And I think a judge needs to have that quality: Look for the badass in every song. And if you can't find it, let the person who produced the song know it! I really don't have a problem with the fact that the judges are super young, provided they realize that there's a world of music out there, and that they should be willing to have fun listening to it and learning from it.

I also find it mighty disconcerting that one of the judges isn't willing to listen to every song "in full"; well, what the FUCK is the point if you're not gonna listen to my whole song then? You miss everything! The intro, the climax, the resolution. That would be like watching Avatar for five minutes. When judging this kind of stuff, you GOTTA listen to the whole thing! Hell, even if I don't like a song, I'll usually listen to the whole 7 minutes just so I can give the producer the proper feedback. So, why can't the judges do the same? If y'all are gonna judge, you can't be lazy like the judges on American Idol. This is something precious to those who make it, whether you think it sucks or otherwise, because it is art. And art needs proper critique!

So, please judges, make this a goal for Group 2; you may have screwed over Group 1 a little bit, but what's done is done and cannot be changed at this point:

1.) A song should, and in my opinion, MUST be judged on the production quality, not whether or not the judge particularly likes the style or not. This limits the people who can win, and, in effect, makes it a biased contest. This isn't hard to do people!
2.) A song should be listened to from start to finish by the judge, whether it's 30 seconds long or 10 minutes. It might be a pain sometimes, yes, and your ears might want to listen to something else, but you gotta have the discipline to see this thing through. What y'all are offering is probably the coolest thing I've ever seen for the Audio Portal, which RARELY sees anything press-worthy on this site. Don't blow it by being lazy and biased!

Well, okay, to that final thing I commented about the judges not listening all the way through, it doesn't appear that it was an issue. I thought it was, I coulda sworn one of the judges admitted that he didn't, but I'm wrong. Sorry =(

But, it's still something important to keep in the back of your mind!

Are there any prizes on the line? No? Hey judges! Do/say whatever the fuck you want! Really. In fact, don't even listen to my song. Just listen to whatever you want to. When it comes time to judge, just make some stuff up. I really don't give a fuck.

Unconstructive criticism is everywhere people. Get used to it.

If you want to bitch to me about how much I suck, PM me about it. DO NOT use a public thread to whine about things. I'm no longer a judge of this competition, and so this issue has nothing to do with the competition anymore. PM me about this.

At 1/9/10 06:20 PM, Blackhole12 wrote: If you want to bitch to me about how much I suck, PM me about it. DO NOT use a public thread to whine about things. I'm no longer a judge of this competition, and so this issue has nothing to do with the competition anymore. PM me about this.

Yes. Leave him alone. He seemed like a fair enough judge to me. Nothing's more annoying than somebody whining about a review that didn't shower them with praise.

At 1/9/10 06:19 PM, Supersteph54 wrote: a comment to everyone

Music is a subjective phenomenon allowing anyone any sort of opinion. I'm mostly bitching at the people who were bitching. Not the judges.

At 1/9/10 06:40 PM, dragon-teenager wrote:

At 1/9/10 06:20 PM, Blackhole12 wrote: If you want to bitch to me about how much I suck, PM me about it. DO NOT use a public thread to whine about things. I'm no longer a judge of this competition, and so this issue has nothing to do with the competition anymore. PM me about this.

Yes. Leave him alone. He seemed like a fair enough judge to me. Nothing's more annoying than somebody whining about a review that didn't shower them with praise.

I believe people are making this issue bigger than it really is. Personally, I think this issue has evolved beyond Blackhole12. It's not about whining about a review we didn't like. It's the fact that the review was overly harsh. To me and most of the people I know, constructive criticism is not only telling what's wrong about something, but also what's good about it and how to fix the bad parts.

However, this situation has taken us far from the main point, which is the contest if anyone forgot. Let's all just forget the Blackhole12 incident and move on. I'm curious who's gonna take the 32nd spot in Group 2.

Alright, alright, let's not get our panties all in a bundle now. I noticed what Gravey was saying, and my goal was to bolster it. Unfortunately, all of the words were stolen right out of my mouth as I typed...so, essentially, everything that I typed was useless lol. Except for maybe the points. But that's it. And what's said above speaks for itself. And honestly, my goal isn't to point out what Blackhole12 did or start a flame war; he made a simple mistake, he was called in as a substitute judge, it's understandable. I did NOT want to bring up the past; I was trying to suggest things for the FUTURE, so that the wrinkles in this whole thing can be ironed out and somebody can win fair and square. Which is the whole point lol.

And speaking of the whole point, where is the freaking last person we need so that we can start posting our songs already? lol.

At 1/9/10 07:02 PM, Quarl wrote:

At 1/9/10 06:19 PM, Supersteph54 wrote: a comment to everyone

Music is a subjective phenomenon allowing anyone any sort of opinion. I'm mostly bitching at the people who were bitching. Not the judges.

Crappy reviews are everyone on NGs as you mentioned earlier. But there is no reason a judge for a contest should be allowed to leave abusive reviews. Because that isn't being a judge, it is simply being a douche. If the review had been left by a random guy on NGs then I wouldn't have even thought twice about it. But when you sign up to judge for a contest, you are saying you are going to make critical assessments of songs and will leave worthwhile reviews.

Also, being a judge means you will at least try to look past your typical music biases and will make a concerted effort to evaluate music in a fair and equal manner. Whether you care or not is irrelevant, because your indifference to the situation does not make it right or acceptable. He left awful reviews and flat out said he was being biased based on the form of music he was reviewing. That is not being a judge, that is simply being a douche and giving people crappy scores because one does not appreciate more than one or two types of music.

In short don't say "It doesn't matter, crap reviews are everywhere." Yea, you are right, they are. But they are not left by judges for competitions such as this. Even though in the grand scheme of things these competitions really don't mean anything, it is still very upsetting to see someone just blatantly flame someone's submission and not leave any constructive criticism to help make that musician better in the long run.

At 1/9/10 08:37 PM, Gravey wrote:

At 1/9/10 06:20 PM, Blackhole12 wrote: If you want to bitch to me about how much I suck, PM me about it. DO NOT use a public thread to whine about things. I'm no longer a judge of this competition, and so this issue has nothing to do with the competition anymore. PM me about this.

Crappy reviews are everyone on NGs as you mentioned earlier.

Be that as it may, the favoring commitment still stands: use PM's instead the thread to discuss this.

...Judges agree?

At 1/9/10 07:22 PM, GreatWhiteMe wrote: I believe people are making this issue bigger than it really is. Personally, I think this issue has evolved beyond Blackhole12. It's not about whining about a review we didn't like. It's the fact that the review was overly harsh. To me and most of the people I know, constructive criticism is not only telling what's wrong about something, but also what's good about it and how to fix the bad parts.

Talk about this in another thread or in PMs

At 1/9/10 08:29 PM, mr-jazzman wrote: Alright, alright, let's not get our panties all in a bundle now. I noticed what Gravey was saying, and my goal was to bolster it. Unfortunately, all of the words were stolen right out of my mouth as I typed...so, essentially, everything that I typed was useless lol. Except for maybe the points. But that's it. And what's said above speaks for itself. And honestly, my goal isn't to point out what Blackhole12 did or start a flame war; he made a simple mistake, he was called in as a substitute judge, it's understandable. I did NOT want to bring up the past; I was trying to suggest things for the FUTURE, so that the wrinkles in this whole thing can be ironed out and somebody can win fair and square. Which is the whole point lol.

Talk about this in another thread or in PMs

At 1/9/10 08:37 PM, Gravey wrote: Giant rant about how much blackhole12 sucks

Talk about this in another thread or in PMs

My god, children, how many times do I have to repeat myself, or are you all completely deaf?! This thread is for participants of the second group in the competition to post that they are joining. Nothing else.

Lol wow. I tried to change the subject, and it just seems like everyone ignored me. rofl. well, I'm still gonna wait on that PM from Supersteph. Once that happens, my submission is a go =)

Oh yeah -- and sorry if I drug that conversation on longer than was necessary. Just needed to make a point lol.

And while I'm on the subject, instead of talking about a judge who isn't even a judge anymore, shouldn't we rather be wasting our valuable breath seeking out that final person to join? I mean, just an idea lol.

At 1/9/10 08:37 PM, Gravey wrote:

:Stuff about things

Dude calm down. Yes he's a bit biased against heavy metal songs, but he provides a distinct difference in the votes. If he wasn't so harsh on the songs, then there would probably be a bunch of ties floating around. Besides i already complained about him and then had a fairly intelligent conversation about music tastes lol So either calm or quit the comp, it's up to you.

At 1/10/10 12:38 AM, Kirbyfemur wrote:

At 1/9/10 08:37 PM, Gravey wrote: Stuff about things

Dude calm down. Yes he's a bit biased against heavy metal songs, but he provides a distinct difference in the votes. If he wasn't so harsh on the songs, then there would probably be a bunch of ties floating around. Besides i already complained about him and then had a fairly intelligent conversation about music tastes lol So either calm or quit the comp, it's up to you.

*sigh* You people missed the point. Being harsh is good. Being a dick isn't. Leaving good reviews with scores of 2/10 is possible, but saying that a song makes you feel like you are swimming through a pool of crap is entirely different.

And yea, you are right. Now that you and him are friends now due to "a fairly intelligent conversation about music tastes" it should be ignored that most of his reviews were ignorant to the core. That makes all the sense in the world.

I'm sure in his world that made far more sense than in mine.

The point was his reviews were not the least bit constructive and some were flat out abusive. The score was irrelevant. I couldn't care less about whatever score he gave to whomever. But him being a douche to a contestant just because he didn't like metal, and thus left a horrible review that was basically a flame fest was unacceptable and was making the point in this thread. If there had been any semblance of constructive criticism and common decency then there wouldn't be an issue. But there was a lack of both, and thus I decided to say something. And the fact that "he isn't a judge anymore" doesn't matter. He still left crappy reviews and should be called on it. Thus, I called him out on it.

Also, as for dragging this out I couldn't really care less if it makes the rest of you uncomfortable. This is the first contest I've ever seen where a judge compares swimming through pools of poo to a song that was entered. And therefore, I voiced my opinion. Get over it.

At 1/10/10 01:08 AM, Gravey wrote:

At 1/10/10 12:38 AM, Kirbyfemur wrote:

At 1/9/10 08:37 PM, Gravey wrote: Stuff about things

Dude calm down. Yes he's a bit biased against heavy metal songs, but he provides a distinct difference in the votes. If he wasn't so harsh on the songs, then there would probably be a bunch of ties floating around. Besides i already complained about him and then had a fairly intelligent conversation about music tastes lol So either calm or quit the comp, it's up to you.

*sigh* You people missed the point. Being harsh is good. Being a dick isn't. Leaving good reviews with scores of 2/10 is possible, but saying that a song makes you feel like you are swimming through a pool of crap is entirely different.

We all caught your point, and you aren't catching a simple point of "It has been dealt with, and over". I hated the review he gave us too, but i got over it, and i'm sure the others have too.

And yea, you are right. Now that you and him are friends now due to "a fairly intelligent conversation about music tastes" it should be ignored that most of his reviews were ignorant to the core. That makes all the sense in the world.

This issue would have never been brought up if neither of us would have made metals songs first.

I'm sure in his world that made far more sense than in mine.

The point was his reviews were not the least bit constructive and some were flat out abusive. The score was irrelevant. I couldn't care less about whatever score he gave to whomever. But him being a douche to a contestant just because he didn't like metal, and thus left a horrible review that was basically a flame fest was unacceptable and was making the point in this thread. If there had been any semblance of constructive criticism and common decency then there wouldn't be an issue. But there was a lack of both, and thus I decided to say something. And the fact that "he isn't a judge anymore" doesn't matter. He still left crappy reviews and should be called on it. Thus, I called him out on it.

He has been called out before, and again, you a bit late on the ball. It has been dealt with.

Also, as for dragging this out I couldn't really care less if it makes the rest of you uncomfortable. This is the first contest I've ever seen where a judge compares swimming through pools of poo to a song that was entered. And therefore, I voiced my opinion. Get over it.

It has nothing to do with making us feel uncomfortable, it's the fact that you're beating a 15 year old dead horse that's already buried in the ground. He ISN'T judging in the comp, if you can't get over the fact that everyone else has gotten over the bad reviews that where left,(Even the ones who got the reviews) then i don't know what to tell you. People are dicks sometimes, sometimes there not, maybe we're ignorant, great thanks for telling us, now please get over it for your sake, otherwise you'll drive yourself mad.

Alright i'm trying to look for the Due Date for the songs for Group 2 but all i see is a flame war, can someone please tell me when the due date it, thanks :D

yay back to the contest. my understanding is that there is still a vacancy left in group two, so the competition for group two hasn't started yet and therefore there is no deadline. somebody correct me if i'm wrong?

At 1/10/10 01:29 AM, LK412 wrote: Alright I'm trying to look for the Due Date for the songs for Group 2 but all i see is a flame war, can someone please tell me when the due date it, thanks :D

No due date yet since there needs to be one or two more people until the group is full. Once that happens, the due date will be established.

lol i've noticed that there will possibly be this massive gap in-between the last matches of both groups. Not to throw another problem into this, but will the person who wins from group one be getting more time because of that gap, or is some sort of precaution being taken?

Phew. I stop looking at this thread for five minutes and u guys start World War III?? Wow, u guys are good...

Good thing we're back to the competition now, or we'd all have to end up building shelters -.-

Darklight17

At 1/10/10 02:02 AM, vanguard182 wrote: yay back to the contest. my understanding is that there is still a vacancy left in group two, so the competition for group two hasn't started yet and therefore there is no deadline. somebody correct me if i'm wrong?

Yeah, that about sums it up.

waoh!, i thought the competition started after i invited a friend... silly steph miscounting... lol

anyway i think i may have another invitation to enter this competition... he has a similar name as i.

but is inviting my brother into this allowed, he's probably gonna lose anyway....
i want to know if its allowed before i do this...

There is one vacancy left in group 2 that needs filling before things get moving.

To the poster above, get your bro in, even if he isn't good, its good practice for dealing with the feintest amount of pressure/deadlines.