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Terrible Film Scores

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NOTunowned
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 16:54:49 Reply

awareness and understanding with a meager sober perception? talent is having Eidetic memory? with religious overtones and pseudoscience (alchemy)

if that were true id hear more clarity to the music (not that aware)

InGenius
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 17:01:13 Reply

In regard to the "'Drive' having Edirol" comments, come on...it's a movie starring Mark Dacascus. Any movie starring that washed up pseudo-action "star" probably paid it's music staff in bubble gum and used condoms. Ie., what else could they afford on the shoestring budget films he works on?

Otherwise, /thread because Calamaistr is a vapid, timewasting idealist who sees only his own beliefs as The Way, The Truth, and The Light of music. Talent is talent regardless of it's source, and claiming that Danny Elfman is a "good technical composer" but lacks talent, is like saying beef is a good source of protein but lacks nutritional value. Wait...isn't protein one of the aspects we use to gauge nutritional value? Talent is how we gauge if someone is a "good technical composer". While I dislike many of the movies Zimmer or Elfman have composed music for, the scores of some of those films were exceptionally well made, both thematically and musically.

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 17:02:08 Reply

At 11/28/09 04:54 PM, NOTunowned wrote: awareness and understanding with a meager sober perception? talent is having Eidetic memory? with religious overtones and pseudoscience (alchemy)

if that were true id hear more clarity to the music (not that aware)

If alchemy is pseudoscience then electricians commit pseudoscience, it all comes down to moleculear manipulation, and so does music.


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. (No longer take project clients from newgrounds but if you need a track or two from what ive got pm me.)

nathanallenpinard
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 17:05:47 Reply

I see what you believe the definition of musician is now, so thanks for that description. However, I believe a better term than just "musician" is warranted.

That being said, how do you know Zimmer doesn't experience all the things you mentioned? You don't.

being able to remember a complete symphony after hearing it a single time, going to bed with music in your head and waking up with it. Talent is awareness and understanding, not playing around with loose keys.

I get this all the time, so in your definition I must be a musician. In fact I lose sleep over it. The hardest part is getting that on paper. Getting something from your mind, and into (in my case) my sequencer is very difficult at times, also since I'm working with samples there are limits. Often times I have written better orchestral works on paper, so hopefully some day I will get to do that a bit more. It's very possible Zimmer experiences the same thing, but you just don't know that, and never will.

I'm willing to believe you have this gift, which is fine. But who else has it that's alive today? Can you tell me that?

I'd often dreamed of having music technology get to the point where you put on some kind of head device that scans your brain and exactly what you hear comes out. That would be a historic moment in music composition.

NOTunowned
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 17:06:45 Reply

no, that is a tradesmen, you don't manipulate molecules of music

how about a whole lot of modern pro musicians are esoteric shamans with altered perceptions
where they produce and intend the music to be listened to in that state (a state where you're more aware)

and that is how jazz went free

PeterSatera
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 17:20:55 Reply

At 11/28/09 05:01 PM, InGenius wrote: In regard to the "'Drive' having Edirol" comments, come on...it's a movie starring Mark Dacascus. Any movie starring that washed up pseudo-action "star" probably paid it's music staff in bubble gum and used condoms. Ie., what else could they afford on the shoestring budget films he works on?

GPO? lol :P

I know I said I wasn't going to post, but this topic has made me laugh on so many levels I can't help myself.

As for Calamaistr speech. It was hillarious. You certainly are on a completely different dimension bud. Keep this stuff coming, because it makes great reading. Any more opinions why the world of sound today is completely redundant compared to your adventure in the clouds?


Erm, eh....yeahhhh..

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 17:28:16 Reply

At 11/28/09 05:05 PM, nathanallenpinard wrote: I see what you believe the definition of musician is now, so thanks for that description. However, I believe a better term than just "musician" is warranted.

That being said, how do you know Zimmer doesn't experience all the things you mentioned? You don't.

I dont but im going by what i do know of zimmer, and thats what i havent heard from him, if there is any work of zimmer than can sway my opinion on that particular matter i would welcome it.

I get this all the time, so in your definition I must be a musician. In fact I lose sleep over it. The hardest part is getting that on paper. Getting something from your mind, and into (in my case) my sequencer is very difficult at times, also since I'm working with samples there are limits. Often times I have written better orchestral works on paper, so hopefully some day I will get to do that a bit more. It's very possible Zimmer experiences the same thing, but you just don't know that, and never will.

You cannot talk about what you dont know, so i talk about what i do know.


I'm willing to believe you have this gift, which is fine. But who else has it that's alive today? Can you tell me that?

A few well known names then (a few japanese for the heck of it cause when it comes to games i dont really play western titles) ; nobuo uematsu clearly has it, tomohito nishiura, ehm.. yuko fukushima is a good musician aswell, yasunori mitsuda is pretty decent.

Naturally good classical' musicians of this age? I wouldnt really know.

Sadly glenn gould is no longer among us.

I'd often dreamed of having music technology get to the point where you put on some kind of head device that scans your brain and exactly what you hear comes out. That would be a historic moment in music composition.

Ive had that dream too, sometimes i have the most amazing pieces roaming my mind, but by the time i get to my keyboard or my pc its gone. Then again i rather not get my head chipped.


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. (No longer take project clients from newgrounds but if you need a track or two from what ive got pm me.)

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 17:29:50 Reply

At 11/28/09 05:06 PM, NOTunowned wrote: no, that is a tradesmen, you don't manipulate molecules of music

Oh you dont? So you want to tell me that there are no molecules present in a harmony?


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. (No longer take project clients from newgrounds but if you need a track or two from what ive got pm me.)

nathanallenpinard
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 17:40:04 Reply

At 11/28/09 05:29 PM, Calamaistr wrote:
At 11/28/09 05:06 PM, NOTunowned wrote: no, that is a tradesmen, you don't manipulate molecules of music
Oh you dont? So you want to tell me that there are no molecules present in a harmony?

Well, sound is the result of vibrating molecules.

A few well known names then (a few japanese for the heck of it cause when it comes to games i dont really play western titles) ; nobuo uematsu clearly has it, tomohito nishiura, ehm.. yuko fukushima is a good musician aswell, yasunori mitsuda is pretty decent.

So why is it these people? Explain that. I'm just trying to see what your perspective.

Btw, despite some of the chatter in this thread, this HAS been one of the better threads in NG. Thank the mods for not locking it yet.

ZStriefel
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 18:09:13 Reply

At 11/28/09 05:05 PM, nathanallenpinard wrote:
I'd often dreamed of having music technology get to the point where you put on some kind of head device that scans your brain and exactly what you hear comes out. That would be a historic moment in music composition.

That sounds terrible to me..

I remember a time when you had to actually know how to play an instrument! lol
Don't get me wrong, I freakn love what technology has provided! I love having an orchestra in my laptop and all. But I wonder what the future holds for musicians. One of these days you won't be able to tell a difference at all (and your DAW doesnt have union delegates!)And thats sort of a sad feeling to me. granted a lot of great minds can be expressed but I've always been an advocate for "old school" lol which is stupid way of putting it.
To me its like those automatic stitch makers. You know the ones where you upload a picture and then the machine threads a design on what you want. Yeah, its cool and yeah I'm glad grandma can do it but it almost seems like we're straying from art. I'm a terrible hypocrite because I use virtual instruments and have an all digital project studio cause its cheaper and easier to maintain but i dono. im not thrilled about it lol

excuse the rant.

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 18:19:22 Reply

At 11/28/09 05:40 PM, nathanallenpinard wrote:
At 11/28/09 05:29 PM, Calamaistr wrote:
At 11/28/09 05:06 PM, NOTunowned wrote: no, that is a tradesmen, you don't manipulate molecules of music
Oh you dont? So you want to tell me that there are no molecules present in a harmony?
Well, sound is the result of vibrating molecules.

A few well known names then (a few japanese for the heck of it cause when it comes to games i dont really play western titles) ; nobuo uematsu clearly has it, tomohito nishiura, ehm.. yuko fukushima is a good musician aswell, yasunori mitsuda is pretty decent.
So why is it these people? Explain that. I'm just trying to see what your perspective.

Btw, despite some of the chatter in this thread, this HAS been one of the better threads in NG. Thank the mods for not locking it yet.

Because their music suprises, exalts, refreshes wich should be the goal of a musician.

Most zimmerish movie composers make scores based on emotion, indeed this fits the context (movie) but its nothing interesting really.

Im making comparisans here, i cant just give a rating to an individual musician, thats not my place.. thats not anyones place.


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. (No longer take project clients from newgrounds but if you need a track or two from what ive got pm me.)

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 18:23:20 Reply

At 11/28/09 06:09 PM, ZStriefel wrote:
At 11/28/09 05:05 PM, nathanallenpinard wrote:
I'd often dreamed of having music technology get to the point where you put on some kind of head device that scans your brain and exactly what you hear comes out. That would be a historic moment in music composition.
That sounds terrible to me..

I remember a time when you had to actually know how to play an instrument! lol
Don't get me wrong, I freakn love what technology has provided! I love having an orchestra in my laptop and all. But I wonder what the future holds for musicians. One of these days you won't be able to tell a difference at all (and your DAW doesnt have union delegates!)And thats sort of a sad feeling to me. granted a lot of great minds can be expressed but I've always been an advocate for "old school" lol which is stupid way of putting it.
To me its like those automatic stitch makers. You know the ones where you upload a picture and then the machine threads a design on what you want. Yeah, its cool and yeah I'm glad grandma can do it but it almost seems like we're straying from art. I'm a terrible hypocrite because I use virtual instruments and have an all digital project studio cause its cheaper and easier to maintain but i dono. im not thrilled about it lol

excuse the rant.

Its true that an instrument has a more natural effect (natural tone body's), afterall it is pretty much a creator of micro-universes, on a computer it might just be theory, i have no idea what impact electric sounds have on this process.. they are sure to have their own anatomy.. so lets say.. what impact would a harmony between an electric tone have with a natural tone..

(electric guitars/violins (take apocalyptica for instance) in harmony with the accoustic.

This has been done plenty but what is the molecular effect is what im talking about, this can be measured.


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. (No longer take project clients from newgrounds but if you need a track or two from what ive got pm me.)

nathanallenpinard
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 18:27:32 Reply

Im making comparisans here, i cant just give a rating to an individual musician, thats not my place.. thats not anyones place.

Then you have no business saying Zimmer type composers aren't musicians. And as a result I guess you wouldn't call me a musician as I write the epic style orchestral music, as well as countless other musicians here on NG. And that to me makes you sound like an arrogant prick.

You say the various composers you listed "suprise" and "refresh" the listener, but you are still basing that on your opinion, your listening taste, your brains, your ears. Therefore it's not your place to say they aren't musical in any way. You are also buying into nostalgia like so many others.

Personally, Zimmer has hit some emotion spots for me, moreso than any other composer. So by your definition of musician, he is.

Honestly your definition of musician is wrong. Being a musician is an occupation. What you are saying is beyond the norm and is borderline new age, and warrants a more complex term than musician.

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 18:43:52 Reply

At 11/28/09 06:27 PM, nathanallenpinard wrote:
Im making comparisans here, i cant just give a rating to an individual musician, thats not my place.. thats not anyones place.
Then you have no business saying Zimmer type composers aren't musicians. And as a result I guess you wouldn't call me a musician as I write the epic style orchestral music, as well as countless other musicians here on NG. And that to me makes you sound like an arrogant prick.

You say the various composers you listed "suprise" and "refresh" the listener, but you are still basing that on your opinion, your listening taste, your brains, your ears. Therefore it's not your place to say they aren't musical in any way. You are also buying into nostalgia like so many others.

No im basing that on the knowledge of what music actually is, if you make dinner on a low flame then its not suprising you cant fully apreciate the well cooked meal.


Personally, Zimmer has hit some emotion spots for me, moreso than any other composer. So by your definition of musician, he is.

Honestly your definition of musician is wrong. Being a musician is an occupation. What you are saying is beyond the norm and is borderline new age, and warrants a more complex term than musician.

I just said that emotional emphasis is a poor musicians trait, have you been reading at all or just skipped to responding?

Ofcourse im beyond the norm, music has no ceiling.. well unless you make 'epic' stuff (im close to getting tired of that word, its way overused) to please the masses. If there is anything that can explain what makes you a bad musician then it is making music to please people who have no knowledge of music.


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. (No longer take project clients from newgrounds but if you need a track or two from what ive got pm me.)

PeterSatera
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 19:55:35 Reply

At 11/28/09 06:43 PM, Calamaistr wrote: No im basing that on the knowledge of what music actually is, if you make dinner on a low flame then its not suprising you cant fully apreciate the well cooked meal.

Poor analogy. But using the same metaphor. You have to be aware some people like their steaks cooked raw. You're still and always have merely stated nothing but opinion, once again, you have nothing but a specific taste. Your taste isnt better, it's just different.

I just said that emotional emphasis is a poor musicians trait, have you been reading at all or just skipped to responding?

You're a nut. Even the classical composers of their time based music on emotion. To state otherwise is ridiculous. As humans are we base most of our choices on emotion.

If there is anything that can explain what makes you a bad musician then it is making music to please people who have no knowledge of music.

You are such a hypocrite! You have done nothing but post numerous digital tracks of your own here at NG. And for who? Yourself? No way, if it was for you and nobody but you, you would have kept then on a folder on your PC. Instead you made them public for the masses.


Erm, eh....yeahhhh..

MJTTOMB
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 20:53:58 Reply

At 11/28/09 03:06 PM, Calamaistr wrote:
At 11/28/09 08:05 AM, MJTTOMB wrote:
Stop starting fights, you're being an elitist prick, and I really don't think you've got the musical balls to take on Nathan, because he's a far more experienced, mature, and open-minded musician than you are.
Thats easy to say out of the blue, you have no idea how much musical experience i have, does this need to turn into some childish dickfight? Who are you anyway.

I'm a composer, a classical pianist, and I know more music theory and history than you will ever possess.

Ill take you calling me elitist as a compliment, atleast i know you have no musical knowledge yourself

I can see how that's a logical conclusion, seeing that I just made a brilliant argument using examples from 4 eras of "classical" music, and cited specific individuals.

:now saying that bach was expressing himself, bach wasnt expressing anything.. he was uncovering something, the logic behind the sound.

Bach was expressing something, if you knew the first thing about the man, you would know that he was a very devout Lutheran who believed that the SOLE purpose of music was to express love and fear of God. His music is hardly about logic, he did not use music theory, he was not aware of the idea of double dominants or major seventh chords, but he used them. He used them because of their beauty, and because they did serve a function. Theoreticians did not look back until much later after his death, and then in turn, they devised the rules and theory and "logic", if you will, by looking over what he did and recognising patterns.

Have a nice day.

And you as well. Your "classical" works are rubbish.


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Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 01:48:30 Reply

At 11/28/09 07:25 PM, Bjra wrote:
he's a condescending prick simply because he believes his definition of the words music, musician, talent, industry, originality, and all the other words with regards to music today are all correct, and your definitions of these words aren't. he also believes it is his right to tell you your definition is wrong, and that his is righ, oh yeah this also makes him superior to you.

Atleast i am expressing myself and substantiate what i discuss instead of repeating after someone.
But sure go ahead try to ridicule me again, that sure is constructive!


and if you say hes wrong, well how could he be wrong, hes a self taught musician without any formal training, so this gives him moral and intellectual superiority. give me a break.

Yea, that stupid bach! with his retarded divine measure! and his elitism! Anyone that thinks that stuff is true is a arrogant prick who wants to force his 'taste' on others! I know better because i make techno!


definitions don't mean shit. anyone who tries to box in music with definitions is a block head. you couldn't describe the act of listening to music and appreciating it in a thousand book encyclopedia series. you could get close, but music was meant to be created and listened too.

Says someone who has no knowledge of music.


if you want to argue the definition of music as "the experience it is", against technical terms pertaining to how music is approached in the mainstream, by musicians who's job it is to make music, then you are a pinhead.

hurr durr.


They are completely separate things, Calamaistr

I cant read another word from your keyboard, ive heard em all before. :/


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Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 01:52:20 Reply

At 11/28/09 07:55 PM, PeterSatera wrote:
You're a nut. Even the classical composers of their time based music on emotion. To state otherwise is ridiculous. As humans are we base most of our choices on emotion.

The classical composers (im talking about the big ones here again, not the average joe) based their music on logic, on fractals, equations.

You are such a hypocrite! You have done nothing but post numerous digital tracks of your own here at NG. And for who? Yourself? No way, if it was for you and nobody but you, you would have kept then on a folder on your PC. Instead you made them public for the masses.

I made them public for the masses yes, i didnt 'make' them for the masses. I merely shared them, their creation was never affected by anything but my passion for minimalism, contrapunt and harmony.


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. (No longer take project clients from newgrounds but if you need a track or two from what ive got pm me.)

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 01:55:22 Reply

At 11/28/09 08:53 PM, MJTTOMB wrote:
I'm a composer, a classical pianist, and I know more music theory and history than you will ever possess.
I can see how that's a logical conclusion, seeing that I just made a brilliant argument using examples from 4 eras of "classical" music, and cited specific individuals.
Bach was expressing something, if you knew the first thing about the man, you would know that he was a very devout Lutheran who believed that the SOLE purpose of music was to express love and fear of God. His music is hardly about logic, he did not use music theory, he was not aware of the idea of double dominants or major seventh chords, but he used them. He used them because of their beauty, and because they did serve a function. Theoreticians did not look back until much later after his death, and then in turn, they devised the rules and theory and "logic", if you will, by looking over what he did and recognising patterns.

You are abselutely laughable, i dont see why you take the time to type all your nonsense, but keep doing it and make yourself look like a clown, as if i should take offence from a clown calling my work rubbish, oh and you dont know anything about bach.


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nathanallenpinard
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 03:56:44 Reply

Calling Cal's pieces rubbish imo, is out of line. Up to this point we've had a discussion pretty much soley focused on Cal, about him thinking he's the one true light of music in this world, and he knows everything and we dont', based on ideals that are his opinion, not fact or theory. That is how you are coming out to be in this thread Cal. And it's nothing new. I've met countless musicians that thought they had an original idea and they were right, and everyone else was wrong.

That kind of arrogance will get you nowhere.

PeterSatera
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 07:10:33 Reply

I dont know Nathan...it may appear to be out of line, but practice what you preach comes to mind. If he did have this divine understanding that nobody else can at all comprehend it would show in his music. If his music was outstanding then you would at least then go, "well he definetly knows something about music." But all this theory he talks about that he understands and we dont, well it doesnt seem very advantageous at all to know it. To say Bjra has no knowledge whatsoever is more so out of line, he's not the one making statements suggesting his knowledge conquers all.

At 11/29/09 01:52 AM, Calamaistr wrote: The classical composers (im talking about the big ones here again, not the average joe) based their music on logic, on fractals, equations.

Wait a sec...you're talking about the mathematical representation of sound, aren't you? Not the invention of music.

I made them public for the masses yes, i didnt 'make' them for the masses. I merely shared them, their creation was never affected by anything but my passion for minimalism, contrapunt and harmony.

So because Hans Zimmer's music is of product you feel his music is of redundancy? A musician is someone who performs or creates music Cal, they dont need to acquire the musicians title via discovering sound.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/musicia n
mu·si·cian (my-zshn)
n.
One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music.

As what Nathan said, they should be known as something else, your terminology should remain as Classical Masters. They aren't known as 'The Musicians'.


Erm, eh....yeahhhh..

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 07:17:58 Reply

At 11/29/09 03:56 AM, nathanallenpinard wrote: Calling Cal's pieces rubbish imo, is out of line. Up to this point we've had a discussion pretty much soley focused on Cal, about him thinking he's the one true light of music in this world, and he knows everything and we dont', based on ideals that are his opinion, not fact or theory. That is how you are coming out to be in this thread Cal. And it's nothing new. I've met countless musicians that thought they had an original idea and they were right, and everyone else was wrong.

That kind of arrogance will get you nowhere.

well lets not get back on what youve been calling me yourself.

Ive repeatedly explained myself, im not here to win a 'niceguy' competition, if you want a discussion then accept the discussion, in no way am i saying im the true light of music, as i said i am comparing composers like hans zimmer to composers like bach, and the conclusion is that in the light of the math behind it composers like hans zimmer have very little musical talent. In that context you have all the time and space to prove me wrong if you post a gem of a track hans zimmer made, something that suprises, something that exalts, something that presents music in a magnificent manner and is backed by logic, not emotion.

(oh and i never said music having emotion is weak, music soley being composed on emotion is)


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Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 07:29:50 Reply

Oh and i dont think i have an original idea, ten years ago i also made music without any logic to it, its a miracle most of my old tracks turned out so well, when i hear em again sometimes i think to myself 'how the hell did i do that without any sense of direction'

I myself stumbled upon classical composers that you now refer to as masters (i'd say the only goal of being a musician is to become a master, otherwise you could say you're a player, and no not in the hiphop sense), and i dug in and uncovered a whole universe.
Im also quite educated in the physics of concienceness engineering, the relative (dimensions, micro/macro for example) and quantum mechanics so its should come to no suprise the approach i embraced.

Im also not talking about sound creation but about the math behind harmony.
Take this for instance:

http://www.josleys.com/Canon/Canon.html
I think its a good example of what im talking about. Now that is knowledge of a world behind music.
so is most contrapunt.

And please do look up some info about the rosslyn motet on google, to understand what im talking about really, cause im running out of idea's how to explain things (might be both a language problem and a experience problem afterall you cant understand what you dont know)


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. (No longer take project clients from newgrounds but if you need a track or two from what ive got pm me.)

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 07:39:05 Reply

oh btw, i can finally answer your question about modern day classical composers, i remember vincent lo had a very well done piece i enjoyed very much being intermezzo opus 28 no.2.


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. (No longer take project clients from newgrounds but if you need a track or two from what ive got pm me.)

MJTTOMB
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 08:40:14 Reply

At 11/29/09 03:56 AM, nathanallenpinard wrote: Calling Cal's pieces rubbish imo, is out of line.

Agreed entirely. I regretted it the moment I poshed the button to post. Moment of passion, my mistake.

Also, Cal, may I ask where you learned your information about Bach? Because I have taken music theory and history classes for some three years (and never gotten less than an A), after having taught myself. You proudly profess that you've taught yourself. What makes you so certain that you taught yourself correctly?

Where are your sources, what proof do you have to back up your side of the argument? Thus far you have done nothing but insult the musical knowledge of others on this forum, but you have yet to prove that you have any yourself.


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PeterSatera
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 09:34:39 Reply

The thing is though, you came in here for no reason but to slate liked Film Composers. Of course they are going to base their pieces on emotion. Thats the whole point of a film score to get the feelings and ideas of character and film development through their music.

The problem though you have is that you somewhat believe the way music was back then is factually better when it's not. Things change, they progress, they become something else. You either like it or dont. But when you dont like it, dont go around telling us that its wrong for us to do so. You preach way too much about the rights and wrongs of music. So he uses a more digital twist, it doesnt make him worse than your classical masters, it makes him different. You seem not to be able to accept that people prefer different musicians without knowing what you know.

Ive heard your examples and although its interesting to see themes flip and work to an extent they do clash, it also sounds so random. Things are done differently now. However you appear to have a difficult time accepting and appreciating that.


Erm, eh....yeahhhh..

MJTTOMB
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 09:45:58 Reply

From "The Lives of the Great Composers", the authoritative reference regarding the major composers from Claudio Monteverdi to the Modernists, here is an excerpt about Bach. I do not make up my information, I find it in reputable sources and cite it.

"It is also a music that is tied up with religion, specifically, Luteranism, Bach honestly believed that music was an expression of divinity. he began his scores of sacred music with JJ (Jesu Juna, "Jesus, Help") and ended with SDG (Soli Deo Gloria, "To God alone the Glory").

This was Bach's purpose in music. He enjoyed playing with numbers, yes, but that did not translate into music directly.

Mathematical brilliance in music is a necessity, but it is not music in and of itself. Music as a whole is ahuman experience. The ultimate goal of music it to express the heart through a pursuit of the mind. Math and physics and all of that are simply a means to an end, one of many, to create meaningful music. I suggest you listen to serialist composers if you like math, I doubt you've ever even heard of serialism.


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nathanallenpinard
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 14:27:35 Reply

Last post nailed it pretty much about Bach.

I will never get my answer really. Never. Because deciding a composer is a great composer, is always based on the listener, not any logic of any sort. Especially not if we're going by what Bach believed.

But forget about Bach for a second. What about Dvorak, Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky, Holst (The Planets?), Brahms, Wagner, etc? I mean, those are some of the greatest composers of our time.

MJTTOMB
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 18:47:00 Reply

At 11/29/09 02:27 PM, nathanallenpinard wrote: Last post nailed it pretty much about Bach.

I will never get my answer really. Never. Because deciding a composer is a great composer, is always based on the listener, not any logic of any sort. Especially not if we're going by what Bach believed.

But forget about Bach for a second. What about Dvorak, Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky, Holst (The Planets?), Brahms, Wagner, etc? I mean, those are some of the greatest composers of our time.

Presisely. The world of music extends far beyond the realm of Bach.

In my personal opinion, music is most beautiful when it portrays what it means to be human, what it means to have life. While Tchaikovsky and Borodin may show a more light-hearted side of humanity, Stravinsky wrote music of flesh and blood and muscle and bone, brute and carnal in its depictions of humanity. neither is more beautiful than the other, as both portray true aspects of human existence. Humans are programmed genetically to have emotion, they are not programmed genetically to do math. Mathematics and logic have developed throughout the entire course of human existence to be where they are today. Music that is written mathematically can be rousing, but music that appeals to a common humanity is all the more beautiful.

That being said, writing music to be popular is a foolish thing to do. However, writing music for only your own pleasure and with total disregard for your audience is essentially musical masturbation. I apologize if that's over the line, but that's simply how it is.


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Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-29 19:30:17 Reply

At 11/29/09 09:45 AM, MJTTOMB wrote: From "The Lives of the Great Composers", the authoritative reference regarding the major composers from Claudio Monteverdi to the Modernists, here is an excerpt about Bach. I do not make up my information, I find it in reputable sources and cite it.

"It is also a music that is tied up with religion, specifically, Luteranism, Bach honestly believed that music was an expression of divinity. he began his scores of sacred music with JJ (Jesu Juna, "Jesus, Help") and ended with SDG (Soli Deo Gloria, "To God alone the Glory").
This was Bach's purpose in music. He enjoyed playing with numbers, yes, but that did not translate into music directly.

Mathematical brilliance in music is a necessity, but it is not music in and of itself. Music as a whole is ahuman experience. The ultimate goal of music it to express the heart through a pursuit of the mind. Math and physics and all of that are simply a means to an end, one of many, to create meaningful music. I suggest you listen to serialist composers if you like math, I doubt you've ever even heard of serialism.

The above might seem right but its wrong. Bach made music about jesus and the christian god not because he liked to but that was his age, everyone believed in jesus and the christian god back then, it was as common as believing in science today. There are many different definitions you can give to the word god afterall, in its time it was an omnipotent idol.. wich makes some of bach's comments rather odd.

When you look into bach's comments on his music, you can unveil a whole different context to his words.

Its pretty convincing that bach did not make music for god but found god in music, and with god i mean the logic behind music, the logic behind architecture, the logic behind alchemy, all being the same thing; the divine measure. No doubt he was so absorbed by this.

Its useless to discuss this with you, you base yourself off sources like wikipedia containing a incomplete reality, just like when people argue about darwin or gods in general.
I am as minimalistic with the context of reality as i am when it concerns music, im not saying im right but everything ive come across aimed in the direction of what im convinced of now.

If you want to believe bach only made music because he wanted to glorify some god, be my guest.
I do not.


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. (No longer take project clients from newgrounds but if you need a track or two from what ive got pm me.)