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Terrible Film Scores

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Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-26 19:41:06 Reply

At 11/26/09 02:43 PM, btriangle wrote:
At 11/26/09 02:37 PM, Calamaistr wrote: The movie Amadeus is very inaccurate on the persona of mozart.
We all know this, who cares. Its still a really good movie.

Yes i agree it was a good movie and i even felt bad for salieri even though samewise, it was inaccurate on him too.

But still.

If i ever find a leprechaun ill be sure to wish for orchestral music to stay the hell away from games in the future.


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PeterSatera
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 09:15:45 Reply

At 11/26/09 01:37 PM, Calamaistr wrote: I sense that every time i critisise hans zimmer (and i dont do that out of my own 'preference' but out of his lack of musical insight, and i already said he is a good technical composer but not a good musician) some of you suddenly grow high heels, is it accurate if i call that fanboyism?

But it is preference. You believe he has a lack of musical insight, it's not a fact, how would you know what he is and isnt capable of doing? Have you met and studied with the guy? He makes music people like, that makes him a good musician, not because he doesnt come under your top 50 of true classical masters.

And of course you are bound to get alot of people growing high heels. You're in a Film Score thread, and he is one of the largest prefered film composers.
=P


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 12:07:13 Reply

At 11/26/09 07:41 PM, Calamaistr wrote:
At 11/26/09 02:43 PM, btriangle wrote:
At 11/26/09 02:37 PM, Calamaistr wrote: The movie Amadeus is very inaccurate on the persona of mozart.
We all know this, who cares. Its still a really good movie.
Yes i agree it was a good movie and i even felt bad for salieri even though samewise, it was inaccurate on him too.

But still.

If i ever find a leprechaun ill be sure to wish for orchestral music to stay the hell away from games in the future.

The leprechaun would be sure to allow it.... for you. Since you clearly can only create one style of music, the leprechaun could not clearly have you open up your mind to more ideas. He knows you're biased, why bother right?

So dont worry, the leprechaun is understanding, he knows how limited you are.

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 13:22:29 Reply

At 11/27/09 09:15 AM, PeterSatera wrote:
But it is preference. You believe he has a lack of musical insight, it's not a fact, how would you know what he is and isnt capable of doing? Have you met and studied with the guy? He makes music people like, that makes him a good musician, not because he doesnt come under your top 50 of true classical masters.

Well thats a new one... if the 'general public' since we are talking about the people that like hans zimmer (wich have no musical insight themselves) like basic and bland music, and you make basic and bland music it makes you a good musician? wow.

And of course you are bound to get alot of people growing high heels. You're in a Film Score thread, and he is one of the largest prefered film composers.
=P

only because he is most known because he made scores for hyped hollywood movies, thats where his name ends.


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Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 13:30:40 Reply

At 11/27/09 12:07 PM, btriangle wrote:
So dont worry, the leprechaun is understanding, he knows how limited you are.

you have no idea how much styles i am familiar with.. so ill just write em down here, im sure its 90% more than you can do.

piano classical, orchestral classical, jazz, neo lounge, ambient, hybrid dnb styles, 8bit, 16bit, textbook modern vg and mellow (a type of ambient with more concentration on the individual sounds, and less chord oriented strings etc, pretty much a genre for relaxation)

And lately im making alot of fusions between two or multiple genre's.

So who were you again?


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 13:32:55 Reply

At 11/27/09 01:22 PM, Calamaistr wrote:
At 11/27/09 09:15 AM, PeterSatera wrote:
But it is preference. You believe he has a lack of musical insight, it's not a fact, how would you know what he is and isnt capable of doing? Have you met and studied with the guy? He makes music people like, that makes him a good musician, not because he doesnt come under your top 50 of true classical masters.
Well thats a new one... if the 'general public' since we are talking about the people that like hans zimmer (wich have no musical insight themselves) like basic and bland music, and you make basic and bland music it makes you a good musician? wow.

I think that was not his point. I think his point was, that you can't know wether he has musical insight or not. He makes film scores that everybody likes, because that is necassery to make a film that everybody likes.


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Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 13:39:41 Reply

At 11/27/09 01:32 PM, MH16 wrote:
At 11/27/09 01:22 PM, Calamaistr wrote:
At 11/27/09 09:15 AM, PeterSatera wrote:
But it is preference. You believe he has a lack of musical insight, it's not a fact, how would you know what he is and isnt capable of doing? Have you met and studied with the guy? He makes music people like, that makes him a good musician, not because he doesnt come under your top 50 of true classical masters.
Well thats a new one... if the 'general public' since we are talking about the people that like hans zimmer (wich have no musical insight themselves) like basic and bland music, and you make basic and bland music it makes you a good musician? wow.
I think that was not his point. I think his point was, that you can't know wether he has musical insight or not. He makes film scores that everybody likes, because that is necassery to make a film that everybody likes.

He used it as an arguement to state hans zimmer was a good musician, he is not.
His music is bland and he overuses the same melodies. Most of his chord progressions are a single key up or down for that 'oh so moving' emotion on the piece wich isnt there just for that reason, its to obvious, to predictable..

Something needs to be clear here again because i think people are reading past it over and over again going by some of your replies so ill say it once more: hans zimmer is very able with his tools, he has good sound, realistic etc blabla hifi etc, but when it comes to making something that suprises, something fresh and enjoyable he scores a giant 1 out of 10. Thus, again; he has no musical talent or we wouldve heard it by now, anyone that knows actual composers and their music (such as here we go again: bach, fauré, brahms, wagner etc.. and no it wasnt the pop music of its time thats pretty much what someone without any musical knowledge would say anyway) would chuckle at the combination of the words good musician and the name hans zimmer.


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PeterSatera
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 14:12:20 Reply

At 11/27/09 01:32 PM, MH16 wrote: I think that was not his point. I think his point was, that you can't know wether he has musical insight or not. He makes film scores that everybody likes, because that is necassery to make a film that everybody likes.

Thankyou. At least someone gets it.

At 11/27/09 01:39 PM, Calamaistr wrote: He used it as an arguement to state hans zimmer was a good musician, he is not.

Opinion not fact. This is what im trying to tell you. Just because you dont like him, doesnt mean hes not good.

His music is bland and he overuses the same melodies. Most of his chord progressions are a single key up or down for that 'oh so moving' emotion on the piece wich isnt there just for that reason, its to obvious, to predictable..

Wait a sec. So predictable music is bad? Hate to break it to you, but every song which hits verse - chorus - verse - chorus is automatically bad? Thus making them not a musician. Well then every song you have no doubtly sang to is not a musician.

Something needs to be clear here again because i think people are reading past it over and over again going by some of your replies so ill say it once more: hans zimmer is very able with his tools, he has good sound, realistic etc blabla hifi etc, but when it comes to making something that suprises, something fresh and enjoyable he scores a giant 1 out of 10.

How much have you heard of him? You keep talking about he has this repetitive sound. The Rock sounds nothing like Days of thunder, nor The Di Vinci Code, nor POTC, nor Kung Fu Panda, nor Batman, nor Gladiator.

:Thus, again; he has no musical talent or we wouldve heard it by now, anyone that knows actual composers and their music (such as here we go again: bach, fauré, brahms, wagner etc.. and no it wasnt the pop music of its time thats pretty much what someone without any musical knowledge would say anyway) would chuckle at the combination of the words good musician and the name hans zimmer.

No music talent...you know what. You obviously have no idea what a film score should represent. One minute you go yeah, hes got talent with sounds and such. Then you go, he has none at all compared to Bach Faure blah blah blah blah. I appreciate those artists, I really do, I love Faure Pavane, its a fav of mine. But why cant you just have the balls to say "He's got skill at making movie scores but its not my taste." Instead of giving us a long winded biased excuse to why Hans Zimmer is bad and shouldnt be classed as a Musician whatsoever. Who are you to tell us who is a musician and who isnt?


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 14:51:01 Reply

At 11/27/09 01:30 PM, Calamaistr wrote:
At 11/27/09 12:07 PM, btriangle wrote:
So dont worry, the leprechaun is understanding, he knows how limited you are.
you have no idea how much styles i am familiar with.. so ill just write em down here, im sure its 90% more than you can do.

piano classical, orchestral classical, jazz, neo lounge, ambient, hybrid dnb styles, 8bit, 16bit, textbook modern vg and mellow (a type of ambient with more concentration on the individual sounds, and less chord oriented strings etc, pretty much a genre for relaxation)

And lately im making alot of fusions between two or multiple genre's.

So who were you again?

I am not impressed by the amount of styles you "say" you are able to perform, rather than really able to.

nathanallenpinard
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 15:03:42 Reply

Calamistr,

This is what you don't get.

Your looking for a new sound from Zimmer, and what you're forgetting is that style of music he does today started his sound. And from that say, that is what people are looking for when they call him.

What about other film composers? They also sound the same at times. Horner is known for copy/pasting (which I don't agree with) Williams stuff is nearly all influenced by classical works (some note for note in some scores, or otherwise inspired) every film composer has a "sound" and every composer outside of flim has a "sound" too. Hell, each classical composer had their own sound. That's what makes a composer distinguishable. Zimmer's melodies are highly effecting in high emotion situations, and no he doesn't copy them. Granted they have the same chord progressions at times, but that's what the public deals with.

But...wait a minute. Most classical music ALSO had simple chord progressions. It's all in the orchestration, not the progression.

That being said, Zimmer has done a lot of unique scores. He doesn't just do action movies you know that's just what everyone hears about and completely bashes him for it. I like Zimmer ok? But the fanboyism doesn't come from me liking him, it's just when people post completely made up facts about Zimmer's work that I feel the need to defend.

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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 15:07:37 Reply

Cyborg (1989) has the worst soundtrack ever. I don't think you can even call it a soundtrack. The music doesn't fit the movie at all, and the movie itself sucks badly.


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 16:38:05 Reply

Zimmer is good but he is overrated. All of his soundtracks sound like Pirates of the Caribbean.

Except Lion King.


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 16:44:19 Reply

At 11/27/09 04:38 PM, KgZ wrote: Zimmer is good but he is overrated. All of his soundtracks sound like Pirates of the Caribbean.

Except Lion King.

Um...no they don't.

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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 16:51:39 Reply

You are correct that people want him in many action movies because that's what he's best at, but I must agree many of his music is similar. Look at many action movies John Williams has composed. Every song is distinguishable and has its own unique flair and substance. Obviously If I dive deeper into Zimmer's repertoire, I'll probably find some nice gems, but overall I see him as a safe composer: he will rarely compose anything extraordinary, but everything he composes is well written.


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 17:23:47 Reply

You're all right. These all sound so so similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVBpeItNy lY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibnExiO7t uo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAhVbayG v4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaLLyKocJ 0M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkuJZqTq8 N0

:/


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 17:44:47 Reply

Adding one soundtrack to that list: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9wWi2zSI LI It's a mix of Zimmer'ish styles with a music sense. Pretty amazing movie, probably the best score he's ever done with a musical taste. Kicks the shit out of Lion King.

Also, don't say that Williams music is unique every time he does it. He writes great themes, I don't doubt that. But don't say his music is different everytime, as it's not.

Actually Williams battle music, is very rundundant in a lot of his movies, it's almost all Star Wars-like at times, with a few exceptions.

Zimmer is best at his military and adventure based themes, and has a definite style that fits in a lot of genre's.

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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 19:32:49 Reply

At 11/27/09 02:12 PM, PeterSatera wrote:
Opinion not fact. This is what im trying to tell you. Just because you dont like him, doesnt mean hes not good.

fact by comparison on actual measures trough musical physics. Easy mode: learn bach, understand what i mean.

Wait a sec. So predictable music is bad? Hate to break it to you, but every song which hits verse - chorus - verse - chorus is automatically bad? Thus making them not a musician. Well then every song you have no doubtly sang to is not a musician.

have never i sang to anyone who to is not a musician.

How much have you heard of him? You keep talking about he has this repetitive sound. The Rock sounds nothing like Days of thunder, nor The Di Vinci Code, nor POTC, nor Kung Fu Panda, nor Batman, nor Gladiator.

Sadly, ive heard him more than i wanted to, andits easy to recognice.. it doesnt matter what the melody is, its always similar in so many ways you can emediately tell its hans zimmer.

No music talent...you know what. You obviously have no idea what a film score should represent. One minute you go yeah, hes got talent with sounds and such. Then you go, he has none at all compared to Bach Faure blah blah blah blah. I appreciate those artists, I really do, I love Faure Pavane, its a fav of mine. But why cant you just have the balls to say "He's got skill at making movie scores but its not my taste." Instead of giving us a long winded biased excuse to why Hans Zimmer is bad and shouldnt be classed as a Musician whatsoever. Who are you to tell us who is a musician and who isnt?

hans zimmer isnt, you should probably come back to this topic in 5 years or something because apparently you cant even understand that being a musician and being a composer are two different things.


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 19:39:53 Reply

Sadly, ive heard him more than i wanted to, andits easy to recognice.. it doesnt matter what the melody is, its always similar in so many ways you can emediately tell its hans zimmer.

That's really the point. Every composer (including me, you, or bach) has a recognizable taste that people hear. And you know what, we're musicians on this forum so we can hear that much easier than the public.

And where do you get off by saying Zimmer isn't a musician? Being a composer DOES qualify you as being a musician. It's whether you are a composer, or performer, or both.Engineering is just another talent that makes music production a bit easier today. However, sound engineering could even be considered in the musician category.

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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 19:40:58 Reply

At 11/27/09 03:03 PM, nathanallenpinard wrote: Calamistr,

This is what you don't get.

Your looking for a new sound from Zimmer, and what you're forgetting is that style of music he does today started his sound. And from that say, that is what people are looking for when they call him.

What about other film composers? They also sound the same at times. Horner is known for copy/pasting (which I don't agree with) Williams stuff is nearly all influenced by classical works (some note for note in some scores, or otherwise inspired) every film composer has a "sound" and every composer outside of flim has a "sound" too. Hell, each classical composer had their own sound. That's what makes a composer distinguishable. Zimmer's melodies are highly effecting in high emotion situations, and no he doesn't copy them. Granted they have the same chord progressions at times, but that's what the public deals with.

If someone makes music similar to hans zimmers movie works, i dont like their work just as much, i dont 'hate zimmer' i just state that his movie-work is without musical talent, and that 'type of music' is what i hate for all the reasons ive given. (the blockbuster scores)

Hans zimmer represents this because he is the most known creator of such.


But...wait a minute. Most classical music ALSO had simple chord progressions. It's all in the orchestration, not the progression.

What is most? There were plenty regular composers, what does that have to do with this?
It doesnt change hans zimmers quality.

That being said, Zimmer has done a lot of unique scores. He doesn't just do action movies you know that's just what everyone hears about and completely bashes him for it. I like Zimmer ok? But the fanboyism doesn't come from me liking him, it's just when people post completely made up facts about Zimmer's work that I feel the need to defend.

Im sure he did, but i havent heard them in movies.


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 19:42:31 Reply

At 11/27/09 07:39 PM, nathanallenpinard wrote:

sound engineering could even be considered in the musician category.

Like drinking water could be considered in the sports category.


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 19:45:57 Reply

To clarify:

I'm not arguing that Zimmer doesn't do what people are complaining about. I'm arguing that it's nothing new, and is done by numerous other composers, in just about every era.

If you simply hate the style fine.

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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 19:48:14 Reply

At 11/27/09 07:45 PM, nathanallenpinard wrote: To clarify:

I'm not arguing that Zimmer doesn't do what people are complaining about. I'm arguing that it's nothing new, and is done by numerous other composers, in just about every era.

If you simply hate the style fine.

thats very accurate yes, but i hate the style not because i prefer different but because its simplistic music when you are familiar with actual classical compositions such as bach as i have been explaining.

And now im going afk for a bit. I meant no offence.


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 20:27:53 Reply

At 11/27/09 07:32 PM, Calamaistr wrote: hans zimmer isnt, you should probably come back to this topic in 5 years or something because apparently you cant even understand that being a musician and being a composer are two different things.

I'm going to leave you as you are, so I wont be replying to you anymore, nor this thread. You prefer to criticize me personally before recognizing that you have merely a different preference in music and I prefer it differently. It's not rocket science. I accept why you like a more classical approach, however in future you may want to appreciate everyone's taste no matter what or who they listen to.


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 21:07:46 Reply

Here's a good summary of the scores Zimmer has done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFMsOeWyW TY

Now can we bash some other composer now? I'm sure that's what this thread was about.

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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 21:22:25 Reply

Now to show that each composer definitely has an exact style, I'll take someone everyone likes (including me): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFNN_ADpY J0

You can hear Zimmer score and know it's Zimmer, and you can hear a WIlliam score and know it's Williams. That's really what composers should achieve.

As far as those composers that SOUND like Zimmer (including myself) fhey always implement their own style into it. Which I attempt to do everytime I can.

In my orchestration competition, I got about 5 heavy scores of that theme, but neither of them sounded like Zimmer, or anyone else. They were their own style of music, even if similar

And yeah...I know I went against what I said in the last post...

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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 22:15:45 Reply

At 11/27/09 09:07 PM, nathanallenpinard wrote: Now can we bash some other composer now? I'm sure that's what this thread was about.

Or we could try looking at the bright side of things and just stop attacking the musicality of people in general. That's really not something we should be "bashing" people for.

Sure, I've made more than my fair share of John Cage jokes, but it's all in jest. I still respect what he tried to say though his music.


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-27 22:44:04 Reply


thats very accurate yes, but i hate the style not because i prefer different but because its simplistic music when you are familiar with actual classical compositions such as bach as i have been explaining.

And now im going afk for a bit. I meant no offence.

man shut cho stupid ass up, and drink ah donkeh piss.


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 02:06:47 Reply

At 11/27/09 10:44 PM, Gaero wrote:

thats very accurate yes, but i hate the style not because i prefer different but because its simplistic music when you are familiar with actual classical compositions such as bach as i have been explaining.

And now im going afk for a bit. I meant no offence.
man shut cho stupid ass up, and drink ah donkeh piss.

Im not a grammarnazi but you need to get your butt back in school right now for some writing lessons.


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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 08:05:21 Reply

At 11/28/09 02:06 AM, Calamaistr wrote:
At 11/27/09 10:44 PM, Gaero wrote:

thats very accurate yes, but i hate the style not because i prefer different but because its simplistic music when you are familiar with actual classical compositions such as bach as i have been explaining.

And now im going afk for a bit. I meant no offence.
man shut cho stupid ass up, and drink ah donkeh piss.
Im not a grammarnazi but you need to get your butt back in school right now for some writing lessons.

And you, sir, need to stop starting fights with everyone here. I personally hate Zimmer, but your argument is tremendously weak. You seem to know a grand total of one classical composer (or Baroque anyway): Bach. You mention Bach again and again. You complain that every Zimmer piece sounds the same and that you can hear a work and tell it's Zimmer. Guess what! Bach also has a unique, distinguishable sound. So does Mozart. So do Beethoven, Mahler, Wagner, Scriabin, Tchaikovsky, and I could go on listing more, but you get the idea. Music is a person experience, a means of the composer expressing themselves in their own way. Because of that, every composer has their own unique, distinguishable sound, because of their unique life experiences. If you were to show me a classical work, ANY classical work, I guarantee you I could pin down the time and area of the world it was written, and quite possibly even the composer. Music is unique to every individual, and that is why you hear Zimmer as sounding the same. It's the same reason that Debussy and Scriabin sound different. Both were heavily influenced by French Symbolist poets, but both wrote vastly different styles of music, because they led vastly different lives. That being said, if you showed me a piece by either of the two composers, i could easily identify it as being written by one or the other.

It's that simple.

Stop starting fights, you're being an elitist prick, and I really don't think you've got the musical balls to take on Nathan, because he's a far more experienced, mature, and open-minded musician than you are.


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Calamaistr
Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible Film Scores 2009-11-28 15:06:55 Reply

At 11/28/09 08:05 AM, MJTTOMB wrote:
Stop starting fights, you're being an elitist prick, and I really don't think you've got the musical balls to take on Nathan, because he's a far more experienced, mature, and open-minded musician than you are.

Thats easy to say out of the blue, you have no idea how much musical experience i have, does this need to turn into some childish dickfight? Who are you anyway.
Ill take you calling me elitist as a compliment, atleast i know you have no musical knowledge yourself now saying that bach was expressing himself, bach wasnt expressing anything.. he was uncovering something, the logic behind the sound.

Have a nice day.


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. pm me for (free) hire, depending on your project i will make you a ost.