That's one scary statistic, dude...

[whatty]

All the money spent in the West on cosmetic products could cancel out all wordl debt.

That's not even counting Asia, or any other Eastern countries (the Muslim countries wouldn't be a problem, I can't see a need for makeup under neath a thick cloth burqua, can you?). But I'd say all those crazy Japanese punks use a fuckload of electric shades of makeup (male and female, heh).

Scary and rather thought-provoking, innit?

[Newt]

Perhaps a source would make this more believeable?

[whatty]

I read it in some book. I think (don't quote me on this), it was White Teeth by Zadie Smith.

Google it, la-z-boy.

[twistedangel1013]

we do spend a shit load on cosmetics. I for one hate going outside without my eyeliner on at least, but I kinda doubt all the money spent on cosmetics would add up to all the world's debt, the US alone has something like $500 billion defiect (which is basically a debt to the ourselves) I think. I know the US dollar is backed by nothing except faith in the US goverment (heh) there's not enough gold to back it up.

[Jimsween]

The US debt is like 8 trillion, not 500 billion. And the money spent on Cosmetics doesn't just go to rich people, it pays for lots of jobs, if you too all that money and used to it spend on the debt you would only end up increasing the debt because you wreck the economy.

[bumcheekcity]

At 2/27/04 03:58 PM, _Newt wrote: Perhaps a source would make this more believeable?

Americans spend $8 billion a year on cosmetics - $2 billion more than the estimated annual total needed to provide basic education for everyone in the world.

Ho hum...

[Jimsween]

At 2/27/04 06:18 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: Americans spend $8 billion a year on cosmetics - $2 billion more than the estimated annual total needed to provide basic education for everyone in the world.

So apperantly "basic education" is just giving every kid a bible. 2 billion is chicken scratch, in Minnesota alone we pay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than that, and we only have 4 million people.

[EvilGovernmentAgents]

I would think that some people would want food first.

I find this situation very strange. So America is to become the Mother, Father of all those poor nations, to help our poor brethern? To solve all the problems of those nations?

Sounds like Imperialism and being Policeman of part of the world to me. I thought people said that America shouldn't BE the world's policeman......

[Jimsween]

And yet again I ask, how long do you think it would take before some warlord or something of the sort pilliages the school? The easiest way to keep the population under control is to deprive them of education.

[JoS]

OK I will address several things in this thread in one post so pay attention boys and girls.
1. The US debt is mainly comprised of money owing to citizens in bonds and such. I believe the stat it is refering to is debt refering to forgien investors(other nations, World Bank, IMF) is about the same as makeup.
2. Basic education should comprise of basic literacy skills and basic math.
3. There is only two situations where food aid should be given. When their is a wide spread famine due to disease or freak weather conditions and in the most dire of situations, rebuilding from civil war. Instead you should give technology and the know how to farm for themselves so they may become self-supporting. The truth is most nations (including Africian ones) produce enough food to feed everyone in the country. The sa dpart is most of this food is grown by multi-national corperations and rich people. This food is exported due to demands by the World BAnk that it be exported, the fact most people cannot pay for it, and that they can get far more money if they export it. If you constantly are giving food aid then they will become dependent on your food and will either grow cash crops or not grow their own food, because they know they can always go to you. This is why you teach them to farm. Give a man a steak, feed him for a day, teach a man to hunt and he will feed himslef forever.

[Jimsween]

Argh, how many times will I have to say this. If you give them farming utilities, then the oppressors will just take them away, or just force them to farm in order to support them. There is no country in the world that is starving simply because they can't make enough food, it's all about someone taking it away from them.

At 2/27/04 07:35 PM, EvilGovernmentAgent wrote: I find this situation very strange. So America is to become the Mother, Father of all those poor nations, to help our poor brethern? To solve all the problems of those nations?

It'd be only fair since the Fortuine 500 has their sweatshops located in those countries.

At 2/27/04 07:27 PM, Jimsween wrote: So apperantly "basic education" is just giving every kid a bible. 2 billion is chicken scratch, in Minnesota alone we pay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than that, and we only have 4 million people.

Yeah, tuition fees in third world countries differ somewhat from the ones in Minnesota.

[Jimsween]

At 2/27/04 10:23 PM, punk_hippy wrote: Yeah, tuition fees in third world countries differ somewhat from the ones in Minnesota.

Worst, argument, ever.

First of all, higher education only accounts for 9% of the budget, don't flap your mouth off if you have no idea what you are talking about. Second, the fact that the Quality of education is much greater doesn't make a big difference, it will at most cut it down to 1/4th the price, because when it comes down to it, more than half of your school life just learning basic math (+-*/), and these students in America have much much greater resources at thier disposal in order to learn this, so quite obviously thier time in which it takes to learn it is going to be much less than those who live in a 3rd world country. And third, millions of children dont have education, your lucky if you get to spend 1,000 a child (including building the schools themselves) with 2 billion.

Don't just say things because you want to whine about something, thats a waste of everyone's time.

[Jimsween]

At 2/27/04 10:20 PM, punk_hippy wrote: It'd be only fair since the Fortuine 500 has their sweatshops located in those countries.

Couldn't you have finished reading his post before you decided to reply, or was the urge to complain too great?

[VengeanceTool]

If you get a source to back this up i'll gladly belive you.

[EvilGovernmentAgents]

At 2/27/04 10:20 PM, punk_hippy wrote: It'd be only fair since the Fortuine 500 has their sweatshops located in those countries.

So the American government has a right to interfer with privately owned businesses?

I thought you PROTECTED personal freedoms........

[lapslf]

At 2/28/04 10:29 AM, EvilGovernmentAgent wrote: So the American government has a right to interfer with privately owned businesses?

I thought you PROTECTED personal freedoms........

I think it's not a government's right, but a DUTY to interfer with privatly owned businesses. When some big shot corporate smuck is abusing third world children, destroying the environment and underpaying his workers is the government supposed to just sit back and watch like the US government does all the time?

[EvilGovernmentAgents]

At 2/28/04 10:40 AM, Veggiemeal wrote: I think it's not a government's right, but a DUTY to interfer with privatly owned businesses.

Isn't that part of the Patriot Act, if memory serves me right?

When some big shot corporate smuck is abusing third world children, destroying the environment and underpaying his workers is the government supposed to just sit back and watch like the US government does all the time?

It's called free trade. Why do you think that those governments allow those corporations access to the country? They need the capital, they need the money. Trying to raise a country from the bottom of poverty is a messy business in today's world.

So if the government has no problems, and the coporation is doing their stuff, the US government is supposed to come in and destroy the factories via airstrike and arrest the CEOs?

[lapslf]

At 2/28/04 10:46 AM, EvilGovernmentAgent wrote:

At 2/28/04 10:40 AM, Veggiemeal wrote: I think it's not a government's right, but a DUTY to interfer with privatly owned businesses.

Isn't that part of the Patriot Act, if memory serves me right?

Kind of, except the patriot act is to find out if the individual is perhaps a bit anti-US government, not if he is abusing his workers or overly polluting the environment.

It's called free trade. Why do you think that those governments allow those corporations access to the country? They need the capital, they need the money. Trying to raise a country from the bottom of poverty is a messy business in today's world.

Well, then how come with all those nice sweatshops in the world of wich you say they bring capital and mony to the happy africans and indonesians the third world country's are still dirt poor? This "free trade" of yours only makes the poor porer and the rich richer.

So if the government has no problems, and the coporation is doing their stuff, the US government is supposed to come in and destroy the factories via airstrike and arrest the CEOs?

How typical American thinking. You know, you can also just arrest te CEO and close the factory, you don't have to inmediatly start bombing the shit out of everything. And perhaps a little development funding from the US would be nice. From all Western country's, they give the least each year.

[EvilGovernmentAgents]

At 2/28/04 10:53 AM, Veggiemeal wrote: Kind of, except the patriot act is to find out if the individual is perhaps a bit anti-US government, not if he is abusing his workers or overly polluting the environment.

So the US now has the right to interfer with overseas countries and how they regulate their laws?

Besides, I thought there was the UN for something....

Well, then how come with all those nice sweatshops in the world of wich you say they bring capital and mony to the happy africans and indonesians the third world country's are still dirt poor? This "free trade" of yours only makes the poor porer and the rich richer.

And isolation is the key to solving all the world's problems I suppose.

How typical American thinking. You know, you can also just arrest te CEO and close the factory, you don't have to inmediatly start bombing the shit out of everything. And perhaps a little development funding from the US would be nice. From all Western country's, they give the least each year.

What the Fuck? I am a Canadian. Great job on the generalizations. Is the penalty for allowing children to work jail time? For messing up the enviroment?

I know what, let's go to Pakistan and India, and arrest all those mean old native geezers who allow children to work in their factories! America!

[bumcheekcity]

At 2/27/04 07:27 PM, Jimsween wrote: So apperantly "basic education" is just giving every kid a bible. 2 billion is chicken scratch, in Minnesota alone we pay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than that, and we only have 4 million people.

Er... yeah, but you have central heating and electronic whiteboarda and teachers fees and comfy chairs. Basic education is paper, pencils and seven maths tyextbooks per 100 people.

[lapslf]

At 2/28/04 11:04 AM, EvilGovernmentAgent wrote: So the US now has the right to interfer with overseas countries and how they regulate their laws?

I was talking about governments in general.

And isolation is the key to solving all the world's problems I suppose.

Why does everything have to be black and white for you?

What the Fuck? I am a Canadian. Great job on the generalizations. Is the penalty for allowing children to work jail time? For messing up the enviroment?

You sounded American. Next time I'll check someone's profile first. I think the penalty for abusing five-year olds to work in a sweat shop for practically no pay at all should be at least jail time. Ditto for messing up the environment.

I know what, let's go to Pakistan and India, and arrest all those mean old native geezers who allow children to work in their factories!

No, arrest the foreign corporates, who hire the children. Think before you type.

No, go play some baseball with a hockey stick.

[Jimsween]

At 2/28/04 11:04 AM, bumcheekcity wrote: Er... yeah, but you have central heating

No, definintely not central heating. we've got a boiler room that makes the rooms close to it scorching and the rooms far away freezing. Why? Because it is extremely cheap, all the boiler rooms in minnesota couldn't take more than 10 million to run.

and electronic whiteboarda

You must have a wierd evnisionment of America. The only place your going to find an electronic whiteboard is one of those experimental schools where all the kids are gifted or a very rich private school.

and teachers fees

35,000 a year, thats chicken scratch. I'm sure the teachers fees in some third world country would be high too, even moreso because you don't have alot of highly educated people there.

and comfy chairs.

Haha, no. In one of my classes they had to use folding chairs because they couldn't get real chairs, eventually they did get them but they sure weren't recliners. Unless they are sitting on a bucket or an orange crate, our plastic chairs probably cost less.

Basic education is paper, pencils and seven maths tyextbooks per 100 people.

Aha, then your still going to have mildly retarded poor people. It's easy for us that already know how to do math and read to say that it shouldn't take long, but in reality, it is extremely hard. You can't just repeat, two plus two is four again and again and expect them to learn.

[JoS]

I dont think central heating is high on the needs list in poor Africian countries. Basic education isnt a PhD, its basic math and literacy skills. Sweatshops do not help a country, in fact the actually hinder it. First of all they pay NO TAXES. They locate in things called FTZ (free Trade Zones) in which they pay no taxes for usually the first 25 years or so, then when they have to pay taxes they close shop and move. The construction of these building is simply afew pieces of sheet metal, so not mucg money in construction. The people get paid dirt, not even enough to support the family. They become reliant on these factories eventually since they are no longer able to return to traditional lifestyles, which CAN support them (they grow their own food and stuff). Countries compete for these factories ofeering lower wages than another country, less protection. If you try and start a union your are fired or killed. The FTZ are guarded by the army, who promises to put down any unrest (strikes etc) that occur. Pregnant? Fired. Locked bathrooms, only 2 15 minute breaks in a 12 hour shift. Hell sometimes when a deadline for a big order is approaching they may work for more than 18 hours a day, using dipers for when they need to piss.

[bumcheekcity]

At 2/28/04 12:28 PM, Jimsween wrote: No, definintely not central heating. we've got a boiler room that makes the rooms close to it scorching and the rooms far away freezing. Why? Because it is extremely cheap, all the boiler rooms in minnesota couldn't take more than 10 million to run.

It's cheap becuzse you already have the pipes there.

You must have a wierd evnisionment of America. The only place your going to find an electronic whiteboard is one of those experimental schools where all the kids are gifted or a very rich private school.

Wow. There are about 15 in my science block alone...

35,000 a year, thats chicken scratch. I'm sure the teachers fees in some third world country would be high too, even moreso because you don't have alot of highly educated people there.

The Teachers wouldn't need to be highly educated, they'd need to be educated to no more extent trhan you or me. We know maths, can speak and write english, read, and know History and basic Sciences.

Aha, then your still going to have mildly retarded poor people. It's easy for us that already know how to do math and read to say that it shouldn't take long, but in reality, it is extremely hard. You can't just repeat, two plus two is four again and again and expect them to learn.

Yes. We would have mildly retarded poor people from the first generation of educated. Then less retarded poor people, then semi-intelligent poor people, then poor people, then comfortable people, then intelligent people. Then Prosperity, but it would take YEARS, that I dont deny.

[Jimsween]

At 2/28/04 01:33 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: It's cheap becuzse you already have the pipes there.

What are you talking about?

Wow. There are about 15 in my science block alone...

Thats beauracracy for you.

The Teachers wouldn't need to be highly educated, they'd need to be educated to no more extent trhan you or me. We know maths, can speak and write english, read, and know History and basic Sciences.

I know algerbra, but I have absolutely no idea how to teach it. Knowing and teaching are two completely different things.

Yes. We would have mildly retarded poor people from the first generation of educated. Then less retarded poor people, then semi-intelligent poor people, then poor people, then comfortable people, then intelligent people. Then Prosperity, but it would take YEARS, that I dont deny.

And in all that time, you don't expect there to be any wars, or rebellions, or famines?

[Jimsween]

At 2/28/04 01:27 PM, RugbyMacDaddy wrote: I dont think central heating is high on the needs list in poor Africian countries. Basic education isnt a PhD, its basic math and literacy skills.

Did you not even bother to read the other posts in this thread?

Sweatshops do not help a country, in fact the actually hinder it.[...]

Then the government of the country they are in should not allow them. Nobody is going to invade a country just because they wont agree to a Free Trade agreement.

[bumcheekcity]

At 2/28/04 01:55 PM, Jimsween wrote: Thats beauracracy for you.

What do you mean?

I know algerbra, but I have absolutely no idea how to teach it. Knowing and teaching are two completely different things.

Then they'd purely need to be able to teach. I'm not bad at teaching younger children, and I've done it for music. My point is, is that they dont need to be incredibly highly educated, just able to read and write.

And in all that time, you don't expect there to be any wars, or rebellions, or famines?

Dont you think there were wars and rebellions and famines in the UK from 1600 onwards? We weren't educated then, and barely 400 years later we are one of the strongest countries in the world.

[Jimsween]

At 2/28/04 02:11 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 2/28/04 01:55 PM, Jimsween wrote: Thats beauracracy for you.

What do you mean?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the US spends more on basic (k-12)education ratio-wise than UK. Yet it would seem as if the UK is using much more sophisticated methods of teaching. It would seem as if the UK system manages to run better with less money, which could only be attributed to a more efficient beauracracy.

I know algerbra, but I have absolutely no idea how to teach it. Knowing and teaching are two completely different things.

Then they'd purely need to be able to teach. I'm not bad at teaching younger children, and I've done it for music. My point is, is that they dont need to be incredibly highly educated, just able to read and write.

There is a difference between teaching a few children and teaching thousands of children at a time.

And in all that time, you don't expect there to be any wars, or rebellions, or famines?

Dont you think there were wars and rebellions and famines in the UK from 1600 onwards? We weren't educated then, and barely 400 years later we are one of the strongest countries in the world.

And how many countries did you have paying tribute to you? It's easy to flourish when you are at the top, when you are at the bottom, you just keep falling further behind. And if your goal is to make Africa self sufficient in 400 years... well, then a few billion should be more than enough.