Not because I think he sucks (he's about half-decent so far), but rather about the sore reaction the opposition will have if he wins.
A recent survey done of the two parties asked a conspiracy question that I had no idea was floating around: Do you think ACORN stole the election for Obama?
This, for all intents and purposes, sounds like a fucking joke. Despite ACORN being a kinda corrupt non-profit organization that pretty much has little power, some people believe they helped Obama steal the election.
So how many in the GOP think that ACORN helped Obama win? Fucking 52%. That's majority people. Even with margin of error that's still the fucking majority. This means that there is a firm belief by the people that the election was fixed.
Soooo...
What happens if he wins again? I have a few things rushing around in my head, but something is stumbling along the lines of "nothing good".
I can't say for sure how the opposition to Obama will react, but it just concerns me if they fucking believe this...
I'm not worried about an exaggerated fringe group that will be mostly-defunct in twenty years, anyways, because it's composed of stupid, racist old people.
At 11/19/09 09:55 PM, LardLord wrote: I'm not worried about an exaggerated fringe group that will be mostly-defunct in twenty years, anyways, because it's composed of stupid, racist old people.
The Jesse Jackson family?
At 11/19/09 09:43 PM, Stoicish wrote: Not because I think he sucks (he's about half-decent so far), but rather about the sore reaction the opposition will have if he wins.
if he's half decent, I would hate to see what it takes for you to consider someone to be a failure, beyond not being a democrat.
consider he's done nothing about the immediate problems at hand, like the economy, with stimulus package that has largely went unspent and the whole thing about "shovel ready jobs" is pretty well unheard of after it passed. they want to pass another stimulus package.
raising taxes by repealing tax cuts and adding on new taxes.
adding new taxes on MEDICAL EQUIPMENT and talking about the cost of health care at the same time (come on, everyone knows you don't bring down cost by slapping new taxes on everything).
the addition of massive amounts of new deficits, then Obama want's to whine about the deficit being too high when its his own fault!
trying military prisoners in a civilian court (that's a topic for a whole new thread there), given that the case could very well be thrown out, not only that, but 1 person on the jury would put the kibosh on the death penalty even if the conviction does happen. Also, considering that both Obama and Holder already said that they WILL be convicted and they WILL be put to death, with such certainty, which shows the world that we do rigged sham trials, which is not what we should be showing the world! the level of ridiculous on this one is just inane. There is no logical reason to try these men in civilian court, unless you have an ulterior motive, like getting them set free because the court case was thrown out (which is a distinct possibility, considering the circumstances) Also, the fact that holder "made the decision" is a LIE because he has no authority to make such decisions in military matters. Obama would have had to give him the authority to do so.
He refuses to make a decision on the war in Afghanistan. It would have made sense to send in some troops and whatever equipment is requested to reinforce the people already there while you make a decision on how many to send.
and the health care debate is so overly debated, I don't even see the need to touch on it.
If that is what you call half decent, then Bush must have been a splendid... oh wait, that's right, he wasn't a democrat.
I'm not crazy, everyone else is.
facepalm at the retards commenting on that article
The only good mike brown is a dead mike brown.
At 11/20/09 12:11 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: facepalm at the retards commenting on that article
they will swarm like blowflies that have found a dead horse and lay their eggs of propaganda all over it.
I'm not crazy, everyone else is.
I honestly think Sarah Palin swung the election towards him. Sarah Palin and the Recession hitting when it did. Because it was a tight race until McCain chose such a polarizing figure as a running mate, and then the recession came down and the reaction of most americans when a crisis happens is blame whoever the current president is.
Who needs ACORN in the face of that? This is my problem with a lot of these arch-conservatives who I think are being specifically targeted to help the left feel good about itself, these morons tend to focus on the stupid conspiracy theory when they're are perfectly reasonable explanations for Obama winning that would STILL give them the ability to say "it's not merit, it's trickery", or at least say such to some degree.
You don't have to pass an IQ test to be in the senate. --Mark Pryor, Senator
The Endless Crew: Comics and general wackiness. Join us or die.
PM me about forum abuse.
I like the excuse he throws out there in the middle of his article:
"First of all, Al Gore empirically won the national popular vote in 2000, and lost in a disputed recount process in Florida."
At 11/19/09 11:46 PM, Korriken wrote:
:rant
And yet with all that ranting about how much the President sucks you still are avoiding the entire point of the article I posted or even the point of the topic.
Oh, I get it, you hate Obama and you use many talking points that I'm sure you looked up on the Internet or heard from pundits.
Opposition posting is fine, but all you did was pick out one tiny detail from my post and slam it down with a long drawn out post of shit I've already read in all other topics dealing with health care and taxes.
They call that something...
By the way.
I hate this. I fucking hate hate hate this whenever I say something nice about a President or a person of a political party.
People automatically make fucking assumptions.
"Oh, he's just a fucking Democrat and only fallows what the party says."
Well, for one fucktards, I am not a Democrat. They suck and always have. Problem is that they never really have had an idea. Anything the try to pass is an expansion of something that existed to begin with. Sure, they have some wins, but generally they are a party of no ideas. What makes it worse is that they tend to think they are serving the public, but really fail hard on that.
Republicans suck harder because they have bad ideas. Really bad ideas. It's like something sounds good for a second and then they shit all over it for collective interests groups rather than the general public. That's annoying and then have never been known to be bipartisan which pisses me off.
Also, I fucking hate it when people assume I'm a liberal.
OH SHIT! I said he wasn't a bad president. Forgive me for having an opinion, but I guess that one makes me a pinko commie leftist. Excuse me while I read some Marx and brush up on my Maoism.
You wanna know why I don't agree with either side? Because you are partisan fucks who will stop at nothing and stoop so fucking low that you twist and warp hard facts because you hate the opposition. In fact you hate the opposition so much that at times you don't even know why you are fighting them, but it's the opposition and those fuckers need to burn.
Makes me want to gag.
well, perhaps if the whole post wasn't some butthurt rant about 'omgs the republicans are gonna be sores losers again, as always!" perhaps I might take it a little more seriously. I mean really, Let's not forget how bush "stole" the election from both Gore and Kerry.
I'm not crazy, everyone else is.
At 11/20/09 06:07 AM, Korriken wrote: well, perhaps if the whole post wasn't some butthurt rant about 'omgs the republicans are gonna be sores losers again, as always!" perhaps I might take it a little more seriously. I mean really, Let's not forget how bush "stole" the election from both Gore and Kerry.
You completely missed the point.
Instead of going, yeah, this acorn thing IS STUPID (because it is), you're resorting to saying well Democrats suck too, which, you know Stoicish already admitted. Thereby playing against the opposition and being entirely predictable.
You have contributed nothing of value that was on topic in this discussion, aside from fitting into exactly what you probably didn't want to. Congrats bro.
On topic, what more can be said? The focus on Acorn is partisan politics. Fox news is clearly conservative, 50% or more of the united states is composed of idiots. We know all this.
The American people will choose whatever person they choose to be best. I'm not at all worried about politicans opposing him, as there will always be people who oppose. Since they're not the ones in power, they can do little to help their case. Not to mention there will always be rationalists like us to stop them.
You know the world's gone crazy when the best rapper's a white guy and the best golfer's a black guy - Chris Rock
At 11/20/09 06:59 AM, gumOnShoe wrote:
On topic, what more can be said? The focus on Acorn is partisan politics. Fox news is clearly conservative, 50% or more of the united states is composed of idiots. We know all this.
I'm also reading up on ACORN myself.
They suck.
We need to stop funding them. That's simple.
While I don't think its the groups overall goal to let all the shit happen I do believe that the volunteers and people who work there fault. Also, they may know of a few things, but let it be swept under the rug.
ACORN individuals have been convicted of voter fraud in the past, but it has been found out quickly and those people were convicted. We have a great system set up against voter fraud and the people generally tend to get caught.
So to assume that ACORN as a whole can get away with a such a huge fraud and cause a 9.5 million voter fraud is stupid. It's impossible even by their government funded standards.
I'll be fucking glad when the organization is not being talked about anymore.
At 11/20/09 12:56 PM, Stoicish wrote: I'll be fucking glad when the organization is not being talked about anymore.
Me too. The idea behind the organization is fine. Its there to provide representation for people in urban environments and kick up interest in politics. For that very reason, it shouldn't really get government funding, and its not surprising that there are a bunch of people willing to take advantage of the group for their own profit. I would be seriously surprised if the corruption went beyond the volunteers that are out on the streets. Its one of those "good intentions" and "bad implementation" things.
But yeah, the chance of ACORN tipping the scales by millions is minuscule, and I agree that if 50% of a political party is that irrational its a little scary. Makes me less likely to vote for the candidates they choose to represent them as they clearly don't have a good filter in discerning truth.
That's what worried me as well.
The Republican party, on principal, is not a bad party.
But, like ACORN, the execution is done very poorly.
Doesn't matter who wins in 2012 since the world is ending a month later.
At 11/20/09 02:18 PM, Stoicish wrote: That's what worried me as well.
The Republican party, on principal, is not a bad party.
But, like ACORN, the execution is done very poorly.
IE Their website, which sounds Libretarian even though they aren't:
Helping those around you is worthwhile
The Republican Party believes in the value of voluntary giving and community support over taxation and forced redistribution.
Small government is a better government for the people
The Republican Party, like our nation's founders, believes that government must be limited so that it never becomes powerful enough to infringe on the rights of individuals.
** Unless you want to marry someone of your own gender, grow a new trachea, or wait to have a kid.
You know what to do with your money better than government
The Republican Party supports low taxes because individuals know best how to make their own economic and charitable choices.
** But we'll spend your children's money
Free markets keep people free
The Republican Party is supportive of logical business regulations that encourage entrepreneurs to start more businesses so more individuals can enjoy the satisfaction and fruits of self-made success.
** Because a free market has regulations.
Our Armed Forces defend and protect our democracy
The Republican Party is committed to preserving our national strength while working to extend peace, freedom and human rights throughout the world.
** Because nothing says freedom like a gun in your face.
The Republican Party is guided by these principles as it develops solutions to the challenges facing America.
** Please note we won't be proposing any legislation any time soon so long as our man isn't in the white house.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Democrats
HEALTHCARE FOR ALL
Actually working this, even if they are failing pretty hard. Its more like, well, you'll have the opportunity to have something, but we're going to let the people who don't have it opt out anyway and we're going to cave to pressures and actually limit the services you can get currently.
ENVIRONMENT & CLIMATE CHANGE
All talk. Even though they talk the talk, they aren't walking it.
ENERGY INDEPENDENCE
Again, looking to be mostly talk. We're just increasing our dependency on coal & natural gas, which we have a lot of, but again is probably a temporary solution. Haven't seen a huge push for this, probably because it just isn't likely to happen for another few decades anyways.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform
America has always been a nation of immigrants. Over the years, millions of people have come here in the hope that in America, you can make it if you try. Each successive wave of immigrants has contributed to our country's rich culture, economy and spirit. Like the immigrants that came before them, today's immigrants will shape their own destinies and enrich our country.
We'll never see this happen in the next 4 years.
National Security
Mostly the same stuff. Speeches about openness, probably not followed through in policy. A lot of hand waving, but hey I guess hand waving can be important.
Reclaiming Our Civil Rights & Liberties
Guantanamo is being shut down, but Obama is keeping up to 90 prisoners in permanent detention. Also, haven't heard a word about the patriot act.
Economic Stewardship
In this time of economic transformation and crisis, we must be stewards of this economy more than ever before. We will maintain fiscal responsibility, so that we do not mortgage our children's future on a mountain of debt. We can do this at the same time that we invest in our future. We will restore fairness and responsibility to our tax code. We will bring balance back to the housing markets, so that people do not have to lose their homes. And we will encourage personal savings, so that our economy remains strong and Americans can live well in their retirements.
Needs Improvement on that whole debt bit.
Tax Code - lol
Balance to the Housing Markets - No politician could hope to achieve that, they just put ice on a bleeding chest wound is all. I guess it might have hurt less.
Personal Savings - Yeah, encouragement. Go Team America! (fuck yeah). Interest rates are so low, saving sucks.
OPEN, HONEST & ACCOUNTABLE GOVERNMENT
I don't know 60%. Yay for websites! But congress remains indecipherable as does new legislation.
SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY
Didn't fully lift restrictions as they should have on stem cell research. Broken promise.
Secure Retirement
We will make it a priority to secure for hardworking families the part of the American Dream that includes a secure and healthy retirement. Individuals, employers, and government must all play a role. We will adopt measures to preserve and protect existing public and private pension plans.
Probably not going to happen either.
Anyways, the Republican party doesn't really support anything it says it does and the Democratic party says its going to do a lot of really awesome things and then can't follow through.
I don't like either party even if both of them present themselves as a Godsend. Obviously the rhetoric sounds excellent and the plans on both sides appear to have merit, but when you get down to the execution or nitty gritty details you find out they were just lying at worst, and at best making a wish list they knew they couldn't cash in.
If Obama wins the election in 2012 Those tea party protesters might lose faith in government entirely and decide to take actual steps towards securing their freedom, and secede from the government entirely....
GObama 2012!
Smashing blind faith in religion is what atheism is all about. Smashing blind faith in the state is what libertarianism is all about, unfortunately, the medicine needed to smash faith in crown and country is going to have to be as powerful as it is hard to swallow, and the only medicine good enough is a combination of education combined with the clear spectacle of a government that is so completely and undeniably evil, corrupt, and inefficient.
On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.
I know, it was bad enough when people thought that bush rigged the election. Now we have this clown of a president that came pretty close to ACTUALLY having the election rigged for him. OF course it doesn't matter because the liberals will just continue sucking on each other's asses and the conservatives will continue to do nothing but whine and giggle to eachother like a bunch of retards.
: If I am 13 and like a 13 year old girl does that make me a pedophile? : /
:At 9/4/08 02:35 PM, iMiserable wrote: It makes you a fucking man!
At 11/20/09 09:12 PM, Smidly wrote: I know, it was bad enough when people thought that bush rigged the election. Now we have this clown of a president that came pretty close to ACTUALLY having the election rigged for him. OF course it doesn't matter because the liberals will just continue sucking on each other's asses and the conservatives will continue to do nothing but whine and giggle to eachother like a bunch of retards.
What exactly are you saying here?
You need to clear this up for me because I think you said that you actually believe people rigged the election for him.
At 11/20/09 02:50 PM, gumOnShoe wrote:
IE Their website, which sounds Libretarian even though they aren't:
Helping those around you is worthwhile
That's the second time you spell it libretarian, are you spanish or something?
The Republican Party, like our nation's founders, believes that government must be limited so that it never becomes powerful enough to infringe on the rights of individuals.
** Unless you want to marry someone of your own gender, grow a new trachea, or wait to have a kid.
Glad I'm not a republican. But it might be useful for me to point out that the republican party does this for obvious and rational reasons. The Religious right still has a hold in politics and clings to the republican party as their enforcement arm in exchange for votes. That is how political 'democracy' works. And until you can convince enough of them out of it the threat of republican guns pointed at non-conformists and non-believers is eminent. And until i can convince people like you that the state is an illusion the people living under the state will continue to be crushed into civil war and poverty.
You know what to do with your money better than government
The Republican Party supports low taxes because individuals know best how to make their own economic and charitable choices.
** But we'll spend your children's money
Free markets keep people free
The republicans have it backwards. Free markets do not make people free, free people make free markets.
The Republican Party is supportive of logical business regulations that encourage entrepreneurs to start more businesses so more individuals can enjoy the satisfaction and fruits of self-made success.
This probably means handouts and favoritism.
** Because a free market has regulations.
Peace Ho! You and I never finished that discussion now did we. I'm still waiting on you. The Free market, whatever it means to you, (And this state of affairs is certainly no free market by what it means to me) cannot be regulated by gods and angels, only by men. And I've said time and time again there is no logic behind trusting the enlightened oligarchy as a solution to 'free market' regulation.
Our Armed Forces defend and protect our democracy
** Because nothing says freedom like a gun in your face.
Because It's wrong to point guns at Arabs but it's OK to point guns at your own citizens... For their own good.
The Republican Party is guided by these principles as it develops solutions to the challenges facing America.
** Please note we won't be proposing any legislation any time soon so long as our man isn't in the white house.
Wilson's Bill that congress shall have the same health care as all Americans is really the only health care reform that the republicans need. I personally don't care about Wilson as a person, all politicians are expendable. But he did ask the brilliant question of why Congress isn't willing to impose it's brilliant plans and point it's own guns at itself as much as it is willing to do on it's own citizens.
Democrats
HEALTHCARE FOR ALL
Actually working this.
I'm having trouble wondering whether I should laugh at, or pitty the health insurance companies. They ask the government for all of these special privileges. And in doing so unwittingly spread the false notion that the government has a beneficial role in health care regulation. They reel in high profits by consequence and the public blames the free market. The State steps in as the rightful regulator of these evil companies and proposes a bill which undoubtedly will make private provision of health care services without subsidies impossible. Since imposing a single payer system through the front door is impossible, the state is left with no other choice to carve a long drawn and bloody path via the back.
and the rest of the two thousand pages that aren't related to health care are probably bribes or the political equivalent to buy off the senators and congressman who won't buy ON to the bill.
ENVIRONMENT & CLIMATE CHANGE
All talk. Even though they talk the talk, they aren't walking it.
That's because the state is, has, and always will be the biggest polluter.
Whereas a private owner, secure in his property, plans the use of his resources of a long period of time, and attempts to maximize the output gained from resources given the "humanistically" determined value of the goods and services which those resources can render.
I will admit though that the free market can do nothing to advance misanthropic environmental goals, since the free market is run by those anthropoids.
ENERGY INDEPENDENCE
Again, looking to be mostly talk.
When the production of goods and services becomes a political issue, efficiency and utility are thrown out the window, and which pressure groups have the most influence becomes the key factor in deciding what energy paths a country takes and what paths are ignored.
Uncle Sam has no plans for changing energy policy.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform
America has always been a nation of immigrants.
We'll never see this happen in the next 4 years.
When there are enough Latinos in this country to pose a truly formidable political bloc to the anglos, assuming the US government isn't gone by this time, both republicans and democrats will pander to them and sell them whatever stolen goods they're votes can buy.
National Security
Mostly the same stuff.
I wouldn't be surprised if Obama NEVER withdraws any troops from Iraq or Afghanistan.
Reclaiming Our Civil Rights & Liberties
Guantanamo is being shut down, but Obama is keeping up to 90 prisoners in permanent detention. Also, haven't heard a word about the patriot act.
Expect nothing to change.
Needs Improvement on that whole debt bit.
Tax Code - lol
Balance to the Housing Markets - No politician could hope to achieve that, they just put ice on a bleeding chest wound is all. I guess it might have hurt less.
Over 90% of all houses are insured by the FHA and Fannie/Freddie. There's a glut of houses and they're STILL being built. The democrats know that and they'll continue it for as long as it remains political expediency.
Personal Savings - Yeah, encouragement. Go Team America! (fuck yeah). Interest rates are so low, saving sucks.
Yep, that and inflation. Real interest rates are probably zero or negative.
OPEN, HONEST & ACCOUNTABLE GOVERNMENT
I don't know 60%. Yay for websites! But congress remains indecipherable as does new legislation.
SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY
Didn't fully lift restrictions as they should have on stem cell research. Broken promise.
The government is too busy giving money to scientists to study cow farts.
And let's not forget corn ethanol.
LOLSCIENCE
Secure Retirement
Probably not going to happen either.
Old people are notoriously republican. When inflation and the health care reforms are over they're as good as dead. But if they're going to die they better do it, and decrease the surplus population!
Anyways, the Republican party doesn't really support anything it says it does and the Democratic party says its going to do a lot of really awesome things and then can't follow through.
each of them are half evil in their rhetoric and fully evil in their practice. When the republican party is in power they increase the size of the state military side, and when the democratic party is in power they increase the size of the state economic side. Clinton being a unique exception.
I don't like either party even if both of them present themselves as a Godsend. Obviously the rhetoric sounds excellent and the plans on both sides appear to have merit, but when you get down to the execution or nitty gritty details you find out they were just lying at worst, and at best making a wish list they knew they couldn't cash in.
Are you truly befuddled at the fact that political solutions have failed to produce the results you desired?
On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.
fair enough.
No matter which side wins, the other side is going to whine like a collective pile of spoiled children who got nothing for Christmas while the other side gloats their asses off until inauguration. then in midterm elections, the opposition points out any and all flaws in the current administration's policy to try and gain some seats in congress to block the administration's agenda.
I'm not crazy, everyone else is.
At 11/20/09 02:50 PM, gumOnShoe wrote:
ENVIRONMENT & CLIMATE CHANGE
All talk. Even though they talk the talk, they aren't walking it.
IIRC there was a huge bill on this signed by Obama that had 100 pages added at the last minute.
"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.
At 11/20/09 03:30 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: Smashing blind faith in religion is what atheism is all about. Smashing blind faith in the state is what libertarianism is all about
so darned refreshing to hear someone else say this
The only good mike brown is a dead mike brown.
At 11/21/09 01:52 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:
so darned refreshing to hear someone else say this
Granted I like the idea of Libertarianism and how it says that it's none of the state's business on how a person lives their life.
If you think about it everything sounds great under this logic. The only thing the government is required to provide is, basically, security. Everything else is ran by a free market.
Postal service can now go to UPS, FedEx, DPS, etc. and the market can compete rather than having the government Postal Service do it's thing anymore. I'm not exactly sure the idea's of Police and Firemen though, but I think that falls under the lines of security.
Anyway, it sounds great in theory.
Here's the downside. Listen, I know you think Libertarianism is the greatest damned thing alive because it pushes itself out there to be more than Conservatism. However, there are too many flaws within the ideology.
For one it's radical ideas on a free market. A Libertarian believes that it's none of the governments business to see how a business/corporation is handling itself. If you you want full liberty to run your business then the government needs to step back and let the market be totally absolute free.
Good for the consumer on a small level. Bad idea on large scale. No regulations means bigger businesses will take advantage of customers and workers. It's been proven too many times in the past and it's not because there ARE regulations in place, but because they are greedy.
Also, lower taxes are sweet, but infrastructure has actually been pretty good. We have subways, highways and various other essential ways that get American's across the country. A libertarian would say that you hire out to a privet contracting company and let the compete to get the lowest price.
Again, problems. If you go after the cheapest bidder you may not always get great quality work. Also, one company policies and regulations on construction is different from another and is not always consistent. If you have government workers they have a set way of doing things and run by a set mandate.
I could go on, but what I'm trying to say is that I hope you yourself aren't blindly following something just because it sounds great on paper.
I hate to go this route, but that's how Communism started.
At 11/22/09 03:13 AM, Stoicish wrote:At 11/21/09 01:52 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: so darned refreshing to hear someone else say thisGranted I like the idea of Libertarianism and how it says that it's none of the state's business on how a person lives their life.
I talk to plenty of libertarians online every day. However, I was saying that it was refreshing because I am one of the few atheists I know who isn't a left wing statist. Smilez is perhaps the only other libertarian atheist I have met on here.
And I mean proper libertarian, not "Oh well yeah i'm libertarian because I believe all drugs should be legal and gay marriage as well. Oh but btw the government should tax the hell out of everyone and give them no economic liberty ok lol"
Good for the consumer on a small level. Bad idea on large scale. No regulations means bigger businesses will take advantage of customers and workers. It's been proven too many times in the past and it's not because there ARE regulations in place, but because they are greedy.
What needs to happen is that government regulation has to stop being about laws and start being about information.
prime example is the FDA. the FDA should make it aware to the public about say, the contents of a new drug for example, but they shouldn't (be able to) ban the drug from being sold if they don't like it.
Also, lower taxes are sweet, but infrastructure has actually been pretty good. We have subways, highways and various other essential ways that get American's across the country.
Please, if the government practised true fiscal conservatism, even with tax cuts there would be ample money for any necessary infrastructure projects.
Again, problems. If you go after the cheapest bidder you may not always get great quality work.
yeah but government have no obligation to quality though
Also, one company policies and regulations on construction is different from another and is not always consistent. If you have government workers they have a set way of doing things and run by a set mandate.
Well the government would contract a company to do it for them, but it wouldn't be as if teh company has total control of the project. The government would still be running the show.
And I mean, it can't be good for your business if your company builds a government bridge and it collapses, could it.
I could go on, but what I'm trying to say is that I hope you yourself aren't blindly following something just because it sounds great on paper.
Hey, I'm pragmatic as anyone. I don't just support libertarianism because of it's obvious moral superiority over every other system, I support it because it more often than not provides the best practical result.
It's not as if I'm an anarchist or anything.
I hate to go this route, but that's how Communism started.
It's not really the same scenario.
Communism has failed because:
-Economically, it fails on paper. Say what you like about human nature ruining things, but communism is an inherently poor way to run large scale economies.
-it provides government with too much power, and throughout history whenever government has too much power, things turn to shit.
And I mean, only a fool would think government power is good in theory.
The only good mike brown is a dead mike brown.
At 11/22/09 03:56 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:
And I mean proper libertarian, not "Oh well yeah i'm libertarian because I believe all drugs should be legal and gay marriage as well. Oh but btw the government should tax the hell out of everyone and give them no economic liberty ok lol"
You mean all those college students who loved Ron Paul?
What needs to happen is that government regulation has to stop being about laws and start being about information.
Problem is that corporations have a lot of PR and money to defend themselves. So it's their word against the governments. I do believe, for the sake of profit, many large scale companies will and have done shady things to do so. Including Bayer who sold HIV infected blood products overseas after the FDA said they couldn't sell them in the US.
prime example is the FDA. the FDA should make it aware to the public about say, the contents of a new drug for example, but they shouldn't (be able to) ban the drug from being sold if they don't like it.
That can get out of hand. The single person is rational while the greater public is stupid. People started to freak when H1N1 came out. They wanted it, but all it took was one media personality to as, "Is it safe?" for people to say they don't want it.
I'm not saying they shouldn't do that, but I will say that if the FDA releases contents of drugs then someone can ask, "Whoa, this has x and has been known to cause x in some patients."
Please, if the government practised true fiscal conservatism, even with tax cuts there would be ample money for any necessary infrastructure projects.
That'll never happen.
yeah but government have no obligation to quality though
Yeah, but it's the governments job to serve the people and I'm pretty sure the people want quality.
Well the government would contract a company to do it for them, but it wouldn't be as if teh company has total control of the project. The government would still be running the show.
And I mean, it can't be good for your business if your company builds a government bridge and it collapses, could it.
No, but how long has that happened? Also, the government has hired out many times to privet contractors who have paid employees well, but abused them in other cases.
Most recently is Jamie Leigh Jones who was raped in Iraq and Sen. Al Frankin wanted to put an amendment to the 2010 Defense Appropriations Bill that says the US would not hire anyone who puts arbitrary clauses in a persons contract that would prevent them to sue for rape.
30 people voted against that because they believed it was none of the governments business to dictate how a contract in a company is created.
Hey, I'm pragmatic as anyone. I don't just support libertarianism because of it's obvious moral superiority over every other system, I support it because it more often than not provides the best practical result.
It's not as if I'm an anarchist or anything.
I don't think I can attach myself to one set ideology because there are obvious downfalls to all of them.
It's not really the same scenario.
Communism has failed because:
True not the same scenario, but you must know what I am getting at.
Also, I know all too well how Communism failed.
At 11/28/09 06:00 PM, BillyTh3Kid wrote: lol obamas retarded.
CONTRIBUTION! You brought none.
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