Karma systems in games and you

[Soldierofhentai21]

Now, I appreciate a game recognizing me as a dickhead just as much as the next guy, but I have serious problems with it. And don't say they hardly feature in games, because they very highly feature in several games, in fact most games feature at least two endings depending on actions. The reason I dislike them is how arbitrary they seem to be. Take Fable, for instance. It changes your appearance and people's reactions to you. That's it. Every region is just as bright and cheery/blighted and depressed as they were before. I feel like I have no effect on the way the world is going. What does this have to do with you, you ask? I wish to hear your opinion, because I've got nothing better to do than this and watching Zero Punctuation.

[huntarus]

Karma systems are just another way for users to customize their gaming experience. It is the same concept as making an avatar in an RPG.

I have not played many games with Karma systems, but my favorite by far is Star Wars: KOTOR. That karma system gave you bonuses to certain force powers depending on if you were good or evil, which was fun and cool.

[Soldierofhentai21]

At 11/10/09 08:36 PM, huntarus wrote: Karma systems are just another way for users to customize their gaming experience. It is the same concept as making an avatar in an RPG.

I have not played many games with Karma systems, but my favorite by far is Star Wars: KOTOR. That karma system gave you bonuses to certain force powers depending on if you were good or evil, which was fun and cool.

That one had a karma system less arbitrary than most, and choices add a layer and depth to gameplay. It just seems pointless to have a demon for a character and still be expected to save the world.

[huntarus]

At 11/10/09 08:42 PM, Soldierofhentai21 wrote: That one had a karma system less arbitrary than most, and choices add a layer and depth to gameplay. It just seems pointless to have a demon for a character and still be expected to save the world.

It was 2003, and I haven't played many games with karma systems. Also, as the evil character, you end up taking over the world.

[Soldierofhentai21]

At 11/10/09 08:47 PM, huntarus wrote: It was 2003, and I haven't played many games with karma systems. Also, as the evil character, you end up taking over the world.

i was speaking about open ended games in general.

[huntarus]

At 11/10/09 08:50 PM, Soldierofhentai21 wrote: i was speaking about open ended games in general.

Oh, I see. Well, yes, that is evident. But, there are many games nowadays that include multiple endings.

[Kenshi]

Fable's Karma System was pretty lame, and I really enjoyed the game. But, if you played The Lost Chapters; it was more than just appearance; but the Hero's motive seemed to be more on revenge rather than saving the world if you were evil. But in TLC, you can basically "Save the World be the good guy blablabla." or you can basically be Jack. But I do agree that the way the world works should change if you are basically omnipotent.

Karma systems in games like KOTOR worked a lot better; but what about Fallout 3? The Karma in that game was basically, to me, what followers you could have, and the way people talk to you. Because, in that game, you can talk good if you're evil and talk nasty if you're good; that disappointed me.

[SirJosh700]

i liked the karma system in fable and fallout 3 most people like it because i guess most or some people like being evil in games or good or in fable the pure and corrupt thing i guess is another way of saying your an asshole or your nice

[Aci6]

I've never really played a game with a real karma system, I guess you could say Oblivion had one to a degree but I don't know.

::SPOILER::

The 'karma' system in BioShock if you could call it that was extremely lame I must say. It was just the ending, it would have been better if Tenebaum never helped you after you kill Ryan and you had to do everything by yourself because you killed her little sisters. It was just the ending which had a difference.

[Frank-The-Hedgehog]

In my mind, InFAMOUS did a good job at the karma system, since the entire game's main theme is based off of it. The city was shit when you start the game and it actually looks a lot better in the end, same goes if you are evil, the city ends like a total shithole in the end. The people react to you differently, your appearances changes drastically, and most of the powers have a good or evil upgrade where the good powers are more about precision and the evil powers were more about destruction. And the story is done so that even though your actions will not effect the story THAT much, it still has an effect to it.

[wcatdoor]

What I hate is how they advert. this system on boxes for the games "NEW LIFE CHANGING CHOICES", "BE GOOD OR EVIL" or my fav. from black and white 2 "Will you be an evil or benevolent deity?" how much do these choices change the game? No one really cared about karma in Dead Rising, maby that made thats why its so good.

[Samen]

My major issue with karma systems is that they need to be entirely under the hood for me to not have my current karma level dictate what my next action is going to be.
"Oh, I want to blow up Megaton, but I don't want to be entirely evil. Better go do a bunch of quests where I free slaves and hand out free ice creams to little kids first."
Not only that, but no game has managed a system that makes people react to my actions realistically. No matter how many people I've murdered, no matter how much I've stolen, I can make everyone forget about it by simply going out and volunteering at a soup kitchen for a few hours. Suddenly, BAM, I'm the cherished hero of all the land again.
On top of that, there's very little middle ground in a lot of games (I'm looking at you, Fable and inFamous). Too many times am I asked to either give my kidney to a starving orphan so that he might live another day, or be forced to kidnap him and take him to my rape dungeon to be skinned alive. What if I just wanted to politely decline the poor kid's offer, on the grounds that I really liked having both kidneys, or helped pay for the kid's treatment? How come I had to either be a saint or a total pariah?
Not to mention, to specifically rag on Fable again, too many games have a way to farm positive or negative karma points. If I'm feeling to nice in Fable 2, all I have to do is get accepted to a certain death cult, and then lure a few of the unimportant commoners down into the basement of their lair to play Wheel of Misfortune.