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Event hough this is old, it's fucking disgusting brainwashing kids like that.

At 11/9/09 07:12 PM, yurgenburgen wrote: Because I care deeply about the truth, and I find it obscene that children are being raised to believe things that are completely untrue.

The fact that it doesn't affect me is irrelevant; there are lots of things in the world that don't affect me directly that are still worth caring about.

So you want children to be taught by people who are atheist and not by families?

At 11/9/09 07:29 PM, ToddM wrote: So you want children to be taught by people who are atheist and not by families?

Show me the bit of my post where I said that.

At 11/9/09 07:24 PM, TakeTheBait wrote: some religions just need to chill the fuck out and preach love, community, and morality, like most do anyway.

Why? Those are the source of the problems in the first place. Any qualified, sincere educator would encourage things like freedom, independence, responsibility, critical thinking, skepticism, thirst for knowledge etc. When the clergy just impose their values and morals on the public, nothing good ever results from it. Love, community and morality are good things within reason and moderation. The problem is, as an official religious dogma they never stay in moderation. "Love" or "fidelity" may eventually mean that condoms are evil and adultery should be punishable by death. Excessive emphasis on "community" at the cost of the individual justifies honor killings among other things. And whenever you hear the word "morality" in a religious context, you won't have to wait for long to find the rampant homophobia or some other form of bigotry that consists of condemning other people's lifestyles.

That's exactly why the Jesus camp teachers didn't like Harry Potter. Because it's "morally" evil.

It doesn't matter if they think i'm wierd it's god's decision that counts.

LOL,downs.....

At 11/9/09 07:20 PM, yurgenburgen wrote:

At 11/9/09 07:17 PM, danicos wrote: They make the cristian race look wrong

Christianity is not a race.

Thats not the point here though

At 11/9/09 07:42 PM, danicos wrote:

At 11/9/09 07:20 PM, yurgenburgen wrote: Christianity is not a race.

Thats not the point here though

You didn't make a point to begin with.

lol, "Holy Rollers" (Pentecostal Church goers) are some of the strangest people ever..

Can we all get along? Both sides are both at fault with the religious ones starting it and the non religious ones making it worse which then leads to problems such as terrorism and hate on religion.

Its not like there are camps designed to indoctrinate children to be atheists...

OH WAIT THERE IS!

There are also atheist Sunday schools, go figure...

Richard Dawkins is such a hypocrite, he funds those places yet criticizes programs meant to teach religion to children.

inb4 an atheist posts saying something along the lines of "its not indoctrination if it's true"/

At 11/9/09 08:30 AM, Archon68 wrote: WTF, Christianity?

Crazy Christian Camp For Kids

Some quotes from the video:

"Let me say something about Harry Potter... Warlocks are enemies of God, and I don't care what kind of hero they are. Had it been the old testament, Harry Potter would have been PUT TO DEATH."

woah, when is harry potter a warlock i thought he was a wizard

At 11/9/09 08:19 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote: Its not like there are camps designed to indoctrinate children to be atheists...

OH WAIT THERE IS!

Atheism isn't a belief system, so I can't see how anyone can be indoctrinated into it.

Also if you read the page you linked to, the camp isn't specifically for atheists, it serves people of various non-religious backgrounds. Another thing that page mentions is that the people there actually learn about different religions and they also study bible passages as literature.

The place doesn't sound like much more than a science camp.

At 11/9/09 08:43 PM, yurgenburgen wrote:

At 11/9/09 08:19 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote: Its not like there are camps designed to indoctrinate children to be atheists...

OH WAIT THERE IS!

Atheism isn't a belief system, so I can't see how anyone can be indoctrinated into it.

Atheists don't believe in God isn't a belief system? How can someone call oneself an atheist if they don't not believe in God? Are you saying atheists arnt real or otherwise don't believe themselves?

Besides, you can possible indoctrinate somebody to like cheese, I don't see how atheism is any different.

Also if you read the page you linked to, the camp isn't specifically for atheists, it serves people of various non-religious backgrounds.

To get them to be atheists/agnostics

Another thing that page mentions is that the people there actually learn about different religions and they also study bible passages as literature.

To try and discredit religions them for the point of indoctrinating children.

I think the parents of these children should let them think for themselves. Pushing religion is something thats always bothered me. I believe that whenever children are forced to go to church that they find it a boring monontenous task. Then, many years later find out it was actually something interesting that their parents ruined by pushing it onto them rather than letting them choose their religion or beliefs. Here I am, have never gone to church since i was 4. Started going back to a church of my choosing at the age of 13 because religion had interested me, now believe me I am by far not a religious radical, I am always open to another religions beliefs or looking at things from a different perspective. Never was a true believer, I just find religion very interesting.

I feel really bad for Jesus. Is this what he had in mind? :\

At 11/9/09 09:25 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote: Atheists don't believe in God isn't a belief system? How can someone call oneself an atheist if they don't not believe in God? Are you saying atheists arnt real or otherwise don't believe themselves?

I never said anything of the sort. I pointed out the fact that atheism isn't a belief system. It is the absence of belief in god. There are no rules or teachings associated with it for people to be indoctrinated with.

Besides, you can possible indoctrinate somebody to like cheese, I don't see how atheism is any different.

Look up the meaning of the word indoctrinate before you start throwing it around.

Atheism isn't something that requires indoctrination because god's non-existence is reasonably self-evident.

To get them to be atheists/agnostics

Have you even read the page you linked to? The camp is for children who are already of non-religious backgrounds. From what I can tell from the page (which I suggest you read some time), there is no indoctrination going on, unless you're the kind of person who would consider learning about evolution and science to be a big anti-religion conspiracy.

To try and discredit religions them for the point of indoctrinating children.

Indoctrinating children into what? Into not believing fairytales? The camp (again, as far as I can tell) encourages freedom of thought and the sharing of ideas. When religious types get sand in their vaginas about children being allowed to think it really only highlights their own zealous agendas.

I hate that spiky haired walrus woman.

You've gotta love Christians...
I made it 2:36 into the video before a blood vessel in my brain popped. This is one of a hundred reasons why i dislike religion. I find it disgusting that we allow children to be taught such things by zealots.

Christianity tis foul and speaks of insantiy.

That is really weird and really messed up, but please don't judge all Christians by it.

Mind if I summarize?

ITT: People who say "Don't generalize" and people who say "That's no excuse for religion to *insert brainwashing method here*, as what Victory posted.

Everyone go home.

Everyone, quick, make fun of Christianity/Religion/America!

At 11/9/09 03:59 PM, yurgenburgen wrote:

At 11/9/09 03:43 PM, 1Tyla1 wrote:

theists

As in, ALL Theists

Oh hey thanks yurgen.

At 11/9/09 09:46 PM, yurgenburgen wrote: I never said anything of the sort. I pointed out the fact that atheism isn't a belief system. It is the absence of belief in god. There are no rules or teachings associated with it for people to be indoctrinated with.

So there is no rule for somebody that doesn't believe in God to not believe in God?

Ok then, so I love to eat cheese weather or not I like to eat cheese.

Look up the meaning of the word indoctrinate before you start throwing it around.

"1. to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., esp. to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view."
"2. to teach or inculcate."
"3. to imbue with learning. "

I can indoctrinate people into believing that the Atlantic ocean is east of the USA coast by giving them a map.

Atheism isn't something that requires indoctrination because god's non-existence is reasonably self-evident.

But its not. And that's an opinion, and somebody can be indoctrinated into believing an opinion. Like the children in that camp.

Have you even read the page you linked to? The camp is for children who are already of non-religious backgrounds. From what I can tell from the page (which I suggest you read some time), there is no indoctrination going on, unless you're the kind of person who would consider learning about evolution and science to be a big anti-religion conspiracy.

That camp exists to install the incorrect belief that science and logic disprove God, you can use campfires, smores and Darwin to do lots of stuff!

Indoctrinating children into what? Into not believing fairytales? The camp (again, as far as I can tell) encourages freedom of thought and the sharing of ideas.

What freedom of thought? The camp is there to encourage the campers to believe what they want them to believe, and that list of things stretches from secular humanism to agnosticism to atheism.

Do you really think the parents sent their children there just for camping? Normal camps do that perfectly well, and without the godless slant.

You guys are way too hostile to religion. It must make you feel better to be smarter than people who are religious.

WTF?!!? OMG WTFS?!?! WTFH?!?!?!

Wow, those cheap, evil BASTERDS!

wow, so much for 'God's mesengers'..

assholes, if u go there, kill them all, LEAVE NO SURVIVORS!

At 11/9/09 09:50 AM, LeroyJ wrote: I'm a christian and even I think she's stupid. People like this give religion a bad name.

like there is anything expect spirituality that justifies religion, its a big fucking scam that what it is.

At 11/9/09 10:06 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote: So there is no rule for somebody that doesn't believe in God to not believe in God?

You are using the word "rule" as in "by definition", I am talking about rules as in ways to live one's life. Not the same thing.

"1. to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., esp. to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view."
"2. to teach or inculcate."
"3. to imbue with learning. "

I can indoctrinate people into believing that the Atlantic ocean is east of the USA coast by giving them a map.

But that's completely different from what you implied when you talked about the camp "indoctrinating children into atheism". For the example you just gave you chose "to imbue with learning" as your definition for indoctrination, whereas all the other times you've used it, it's been in the context of instructing principles and ideology.

So which are you accusing them of? Indoctrinating children with atheist ideology (in which case I would ask that you specify what atheist ideology actually is) or are you accusing them of simply teaching children about science? If the latter, what's the big deal?

But its not. And that's an opinion, and somebody can be indoctrinated into believing an opinion. Like the children in that camp.

Even though the camp itself holds a competition for children to try and disprove the existence of an invisible unicorn, which of course is impossible (because of the theistic "it exists outside of our logic" cop-out), and the conclusion that the children would come to is that it is impossible to disprove god.

That camp exists to install the incorrect belief that science and logic disprove God

Wrong. Read your own link. The camp does teach science which debunks creationism, but this does not have anything to do with whether or not god exists. Also refer back to the unicorn competition I mentioned.

What freedom of thought? The camp is there to encourage the campers to believe what they want them to believe, and that list of things stretches from secular humanism to agnosticism to atheism.

So far you've accused the camp of trying to "indoctrinate children into atheism" (even though you changed your definition of indoctrination at one point) and now you've changed your accusation again stating that the camp wants children to believe anything from atheism to secular humanism, even though you haven't bothered to say what you think the children are actually being made to believe.

From what I've read about the camp (I only found out about it today, but judging from what you've been posting I've probably read more about it than you have), it seems no more radical than a typical science lesson.

Do you really think the parents sent their children there just for camping? Normal camps do that perfectly well, and without the godless slant.

Maybe the parents would like their kids to get a well-balanced view on life, away from all the religious propaganda that the media and society shoves down their throats.

At 11/9/09 10:56 PM, yurgenburgen wrote: You are using the word "rule" as in "by definition", I am talking about rules as in ways to live one's life. Not the same thing.

Its the same damn thing in this case, the dogma of atheism is not believing in God, the definition of Atheism is not believing in God. Its the rule and the defining characteristic.

So which are you accusing them of? Indoctrinating children with atheist ideology (in which case I would ask that you specify what atheist ideology actually is) or are you accusing them of simply teaching children about science? If the latter, what's the big deal?

They are not simply teaching them about science, they are encouraging them to think about science in a certain way to encourage certain ways to think.

Even though the camp itself holds a competition for children to try and disprove the existence of an invisible unicorn, which of course is impossible (because of the theistic "it exists outside of our logic" cop-out), and the conclusion that the children would come to is that it is impossible to disprove god.

...and offering the theoretical winner a £10 note autographed by Richard Dawkins. Is simply their way to make them agnostic at least, atheist at best, by comparing God to invisible unicorns.

So far you've accused the camp of trying to "indoctrinate children into atheism" (even though you changed your definition of indoctrination at one point) and now you've changed your accusation again stating that the camp wants children to believe anything from atheism to secular humanism, even though you haven't bothered to say what you think the children are actually being made to believe.

The whole point of the place is to make them think of everything in a secular manner, and the closest thing to that is atheism. Making agnostics are just a partial win to that place.

From what I've read about the camp (I only found out about it today, but judging from what you've been posting I've probably read more about it than you have), it seems no more radical than a typical science lesson.

Its more of a secular philosophy lesson mixed with some science for a desired effect on young minds.

Maybe the parents would like their kids to get a well-balanced view on life, away from all the religious propaganda that the media and society shoves down their throats.

You sound like regular summer camps are part of some sort of pro-religion conspiracy.

I think newground's devout atheists and religious folk should meet up for a pint if they happen to go to the same NG meet. Srsly.