Health Care Bill Passes

[fli]

Clicksy for looksy

Soooo...
The Health Care Bill passes.

Oh god,
we've all discussed this before. And the same arguments are gonna come up. "Oh, the illegals..." "Oh, we needed reform..." "Oh, Communism/ Socialism..." "Oh, America ends..." "Oh, America begins..."

I'm happy.
(I know loads of you guys won't.)

Let it out now.
I think everyone has got something to say on this subject.

[ReiperX]

I think that the nation strongly needed health care reform, and this is a step in the right direction.

I'm not extremely happy about this bill, as I don't think it will be as effective as I would have liked, but it's not going to be the end of the world I don't think.

[dySWN]

We need reform.

This is not that.

[HollowedPumkinz]

Well regardless of how mad anyone gets, in the end it still passed. We just need to adjust our lives a little to match what has happened and then get on with the rest of our lives. I mean really I don't see what is the big deal. whether this passed or not would it affect your life that badly? Sure there are going to be some financial things you must adjust but other than that well that's it. In reality all the things everyone gets so worked up over never really changes much anyway. It may be bigger than this like the fact that no matter how many reps. voted against it the democrats will still get it through or it will lead to far bigger things like this but much like all the things people get hyped up about it will die down with very little change and they will find something else to bitch about.(that pretty much sums up politics eh? I kid I kid :P)

[RightWingGamer]

it only passed in the house, it still has the senate to go.

but how the bill passed in the house is a pretty funny story. the bill included a bit about socialized abortions, and when the republicans managed to get that part dropped, alot of the more fledgling representatives voted in favor of the bill.

so, in other words, the GOP just screwed over the american right AGAIN!

[gumOnShoe]

I think this was just the house though, again. We're still waiting on the Senate, right?

I'm fine with a majority of it, but apparently they added yet another restriction on abortion so that even private insurers can't pay for them??? WTF? How is that helpful in anyway whatsoever.

[gumOnShoe]

At 11/8/09 02:04 AM, gumOnShoe wrote: I think this was just the house though, again. We're still waiting on the Senate, right?

I'm fine with a majority of it, but apparently they added yet another restriction on abortion so that even private insurers can't pay for them??? WTF? How is that helpful in anyway whatsoever.

"he first amendment, introduced by anti-abortion Democrats, bans federal funds for abortion services in the public option and in the insurance "exchange" the bill would create. Its consideration was considered a big win for them and for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which used its power -- especially with conservative Democrats in swing congressional districts -- to help force other Democratic leaders to permit a vote that most of them oppose.
The prohibition, introduced by Democratic members, including Rep. Brad Ellsworth, D-Indiana, and Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Michigan, would exclude cases of rape, incest or if the mother's life is in danger."

Its the health care exchanges apparently. I hope that particular amendment gets repealed after the whole thing passes.

[Warforger]

What happened to the Legion of Conservatives on this site who thought that the Healthcare Bill was going to put shitstains on America and its healthcare? I for one like it as in the last rating of every countries healthcare by the WTO America was in 36th place, with France in 1st and Germany in 5th, and IIRC they also have socialized healthcare.

[fatape]

he finaly accomplished something with his overwhelming majority , yeaahhhhhh

although I still don't like his stance on gay marrage , or his conservitive attude towards anything not economic.

[lolwtfmudkips]

Even though it was passed its the senates decision to pass it for america. WHICH you know the will fuck up somehow.

[hansari]

"In the bill's most controversial provision, the government would sell insurance, although the Congressional Budget Office forecasts that premiums for it would be more expensive than for policies sold by private companies."

Wait...so are the prices gonna go down or not?!?!?!

[Korriken]

its gotta pass the senate with a 60 vote majority... unless they somehow manage to use reconciliation to pass it with 51. but then, they still have to pass the bill as is, or it will have to go to committee to agree on a final bill, then its gotta hit Obama's desk.

there were enough rinos and buyable blue dogs to get it through the house, but the senate is a whole other can of worms. congressmen only have to answer to their districts. the senators have to answer to the entire state.

[Ptcfast]

It's just going to be reversed when a Republican gets elected or has house majority again...

This is the cycle.

[SEXY-FETUS]

I'm gonna sit back with the "How the hell are we going to afford this?" crowd.

[Stelyu]

I like how the Democrats created a false choice with this whole healthcare bullshit, saying either no reform (which even Republicans have repeatedly said is not an option) or a public option, which is pure horseshit for reasons I will not list, as they have been listed over and over and I would have to write a novel of a post for that. There are many ways to reform healthcare without bankrupting ourselves with a public option.

It didn't surprise me that it passed the House, since the Democrat zombies there will pass anything Pelosi tells them to pass. I doubt it'll pass the Senate, since Lieberman dropped his support for the Democrats and pledged to support a Republican filibuster; without Lieberman's vote, the Democrats can't stop a filibuster, so I don't think the Senate will let one pass with a public option.

The abortion amendment struck me as rather funny, though hopefully it will be an incentive for people to not use the public option (other than the fact that knowing that our government can't deliver the mail without working up a budget deficit and cutting quality).

[camobch0]

I'm happy as shit. Unfortunately, republicans are till trying to make more money and kill more poor people. Lets just end this shit and drop some bombs on congress.

[morefngdbs]

At 11/8/09 12:53 PM, SEXY-FETUS wrote: I'm gonna sit back with the "How the hell are we going to afford this?" crowd.

The same way we do & CUBA DOES...France does...England does... Germany...Finland...Norway...Sweden...et c. etc. etc.

[Toiletpaper]

We need reform, and this is a step forward, although it's not as good as I would have hoped.

I agree with many of the aspects of the reform, such as universal healthcare, although I don't see how this will bring our economy up. Sure, this can fix a lot of things, but it will put us in a large amount of debt. Although I'm not saying I could have thought of something better, I am saying that there are holes in the health care bill.

I'm worried about aspect such as the improved quality of the healthcare as well. I know America REALLY NEEDS the quality, as it is at a shit level right now, but I'm unsure on how it would impact us in the long run. It could go either way; we're going to have to let time decide on this one.

[JohnnyWang]

At 11/8/09 12:53 PM, SEXY-FETUS wrote: I'm gonna sit back with the "How the hell are we going to afford this?" crowd.

America is the richest nation int he world... and can't afford to pay for its citizens? It's all a question of priorities.

[ofnir2]

At 11/8/09 12:53 PM, SEXY-FETUS wrote: I'm gonna sit back with the "How the hell are we going to afford this?" crowd.

I completely agree with you. Obama explicitly assured us in his October speech on "reform" that it "would not cost a dime."

The parts of the bill that I read so far seem absurd. Now not only does the government compete with insurance companies, you MUST now have insurance. That, or the gov't fines you up to 2.5% of your income; refusal to pay results in another fine or jail time. But never fear! Welfare get's expanded from 100 to 150% of the Federal Poverty Index.

Also, if you make more than 500,000 dollars as an individual or 1 mil as a couple, you get taxed 5.4% more. Awesome...

And I'm all for creating more bureaucratic messes of agencies and secretariats to oversee health care. I'd love to know what tree Obama and Pelosi are plucking the 1.2 trillion off of this time.

[mikailus]

Well, this would be the first of many steps toward true and total reform.

Meanwhile, ON TO THE SENATE!!!

[CRASHAKEZULA81]

For shame. I guess we could give obama a VMA award for this

Or we could give him a purple heart for being from illinois.

That's hw were suppose to o it right? Give him random awards that he doesn't diserve, right?

[LardLord]

At 11/8/09 03:48 PM, CRASHAKEZULA81 wrote: For shame. I guess we could give obama a VMA award for this
Or we could give him a purple heart for being from illinois.
That's hw were suppose to o it right? Give him random awards that he doesn't diserve, right?

The difference is, now that he's on the verge of accomplishing something huge, he would actually deserve an award. Or multiple awards.

Hell yeah, man.

[dudewithashotgun29]

I do agree we need a reform, but god damn it, this was a dumb ass aproach. fuck. fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. FUCK!

[SmilezRoyale]

At 11/8/09 02:05 PM, morefngdbs wrote:

At 11/8/09 12:53 PM, SEXY-FETUS wrote: I'm gonna sit back with the "How the hell are we going to afford this?" crowd.

The same way we do & CUBA DOES...France does...England does... Germany...Finland...Norway...Sweden...et c. etc. etc.

Except America has a global police force, a bankrupt social security system, a bailout program, and a stimulus package to pay for already.

Oh... And a global Empire.

______________

Here's my favorite Gem from this whole thing.

To keep down costs, the government subsidies and consumer protections don't take effect until 2013. During the three-year transition, both bills would provide $5 billion in federal dollars to help get coverage for people with medical problems who are turned down by private insurers.

of course Yahoo would never tell it's readers that one of these things invariably raises the cost, and both of them invariably raise the price of healthcare.

Virtually all consumer protection schemes simply work to tell consumers that they can't buy certain kinds of products. And these laws are usually written by insurance or drug companies attempting to stifle competitors by making it illegal to have one's health care provided in a certain way. It doesn't protect consumers, it protects the capitalists.

Subsidies raise prices by encouraging people to consume, this only lowers the 'price' for the person who gets the subsidy, but stimulating demand you inevitably raise prices for everyone else.

Proof that the agents of the state have zero allegiance to 'society'. Both of these were likely put in to satisfy the medical industry by continuing to remove competitive forces and have the taxpayer pay for other people's medical consumption; which ultimately ends up in the hands of the medical industry.

[X-Gary-Gigax-X]

At 11/8/09 11:19 AM, Korriken wrote: there were enough rinos and buyable blue dogs to get it through the house, but the senate is a whole other can of worms. congressmen only have to answer to their districts. the senators have to answer to the entire state.

Heard a funny analogy about the Senate once. It goes, "The House is like a fraternity house. All it takes is a spark to start a panty-raid, then all of the reps are rallying one another, which leads to the movie Animal House. But the Senators in the Senate are all like individual countries, you need to massage them in the right spot to get what you want." ....or something like that.

If there's actually a point in that stupid analogy, it's that this bill may have a tougher chance of passing the senate than the house.

[adrshepard]

I never understood how insuring more people, especially those who could never pay for it, will save money for everyone in the long run.

Or, for that matter, how anyone can depict healthcare reform as vitally important for the future of the country when we've become the most powerful country in the world without it. If there are some paper changes that need to be made to the payment system that will lower costs, then fine, but it's not the superb health of its citizens that's making China into a major power or that propelled the Romans or Greeks to greatness.

So, if the US ranks 36th on some health scale, who gives a shit?

[Bacchanalian]

At 11/8/09 06:57 PM, adrshepard wrote: Or, for that matter, how anyone can depict healthcare reform as vitally important for the future of the country when we've become the most powerful country in the world without it.

So nothing can be vitally important for the country that isn't already in place?

[CRASHAKEZULA81]

At 11/8/09 04:29 PM, LardLord wrote: The difference is, now that he's on the verge of accomplishing something huge, he would actually deserve an award. Or multiple awards.

Hell yeah, man.

Yeah, and he could use all that money he hasn't spent yet to do it..... oh wait....

[adrshepard]

At 11/8/09 07:27 PM, Bacchanalian wrote:

At 11/8/09 06:57 PM, adrshepard wrote: Or, for that matter, how anyone can depict healthcare reform as vitally important for the future of the country when we've become the most powerful country in the world without it.

e
So nothing can be vitally important for the country that isn't already in place?

Other things equal, of course. There is no "new" healthcare crisis that demands sudden attention. 40 million don't have insurance. Most of them are young and generally healthy anyway. A few are in between jobs. The rest are poor and therefore not particularly vital to the long-term power and prosperity of the country. The fact that we are low in certain rankings means nothing. Infant mortality means nothing; women can get pregnant again. Average lifespan means nothing; many people who live much longer past their retirement are little more than tax burdens on society.

Despite our "broken" health system, Americans are still the most productive workers and have the greatest per capita real income (except for few obscure countries like Luxembourg and Brunei).

And think about the most common health issues in this country; cancer, high cholesterol, obesity, heart disease. What does it say about our standard of living when illnesses caused by excesses (smoking and eating, primarily) are the biggest threat to our society?

Too heartless for you? It's called life. It sucks, so get used to it. I've learned too much of human history to buy into the idea that we NEED to spend over a trillion dollars on health coverage for this country to prosper.