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At 11/3/09 07:56 AM, Toast wrote:

At 11/3/09 07:50 AM, Rustygames wrote: I dropped school when I was 17 because I wasn't learning anything, and I got a job as a flash developer. Almost 3 years later I'm still working as a flash developer and making a good living from it.

And then you're forced to make flash games for kids for 90 years until you eventually die from a heart attack at the age of 107 because you don't have a degree or any proper education.

Don't take advice from ninja chickens.

Interesting. Tell me, what do you do for a living?

I started out in new media making advergames etc, but then I moved to my current company who make gambling products. I'm making a very confortable living out of it, and could easily do so for the rest of my days. However, if I did one day chose to change to some other aspect of programming, that would easily be possible without a degree.

Take it from someone who knows, a degree is not everything, you actually have to have a passion for what you do and most importantly you have to be good at it, no employer ignores experience and skill and only focuses on your education background.

At 11/3/09 12:14 PM, hdxmike wrote: Firstly its HTML5 which i am learning , secondly let me see you animate waterlollies or program FPA2 with HTML5 , adobe isnt doing a bad job , maybe with the IDEs but they brought 3d AS3 and IK and several other things including (soon to be ) iphone development , both languages are good for what they are intended for

Adobe are doing a crap job with Flash, all this crap they're piling on is not helping anyone, and Flash runs like crap on the iPhone.

Also HTML5 has been predicted to overtake Flash, it's being endorsed by a large number of companies including Google as the next big Web Script but at the moment it hasn't caught on for either animation or games. There is currently no good animating tools for it and not enough browsers support it for games.

I'd give flash 5 more years for it becomes mainly obsolete.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-wor ld/html-5-could-it-kill-flash-and-silver light-291

At 11/3/09 01:04 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: I'd give flash 5 more years for it becomes mainly obsolete.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-wor ld/html-5-could-it-kill-flash-and-silver light-291

And that is exactly why you shouldn't drop out of school and rely on flash only. Once the flash industry falls apart (which will happen sooner or later), you'd be jobless and homeless...

At 11/3/09 01:04 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: Adobe are doing a crap job with Flash
Also HTML5 has been predicted to overtake Flash
I'd give flash 5 more years for it becomes mainly obsolete.

What? There's very little basis in any of these claims.

At 11/3/09 01:47 PM, 4urentertainment wrote:

At 11/3/09 01:04 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: I'd give flash 5 more years for it becomes mainly obsolete.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-wor ld/html-5-could-it-kill-flash-and-silver light-291

And that is exactly why you shouldn't drop out of school and rely on flash only. Once the flash industry falls apart (which will happen sooner or later), you'd be jobless and homeless...

Flash is just a tool, they go in and out of fasion. If you're a designer you should be able to adapt to the various tools, if you're a programmer you should be able to adapt to various languages.

If flash ever does become obsolete, don't you think by then you'd have moved over to something else? For example, if silverlight becomes more popular and your place of work asks you to switch over, then you would do

At 11/3/09 01:47 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: And that is exactly why you shouldn't drop out of school and rely on flash only. Once the flash industry falls apart (which will happen sooner or later), you'd be jobless and homeless...

Or you can transfer your skills to the new industries! I mean, animators and artists aren't going to find it too hard to move to a new platform, and even a half-decent programmer would be able to move to a different language. Most of what programming is is understanding how computers 'work'; the different syntax between languages isn't going to kill anyone.

I thought i had made my OP clear enough *sigh* not your fault

I was talking about a career with flash or something spawned off it ie 2D animation , game design,game programming etc ok ?

but the thing is i think the educational system is fucked up , after 6th grade until university its all bullshit and mostly useless, im one of the top students anyway , everything is easy but thats the problem , what i need is something more specific that can challenge me AND prove useful to get a fitting job. yes i do want to finish school i just think most of it is just formality if we compressed the cirriculum to only 2 years of high school there would be more time for focussing on exact skills and time to hone your skills before your tossed out to fend for yourself.

I found a sweet job for an educational flash MMO on craig's list. they said that most flash developers are freelance so your chances of getting a salary/ hourly wage are pretty good.

frankly Flash is so awesome for starting your own company, you really don't need a lot of resources to start up. If you already have the program then you don't need to spend any more money. once you have a few games under your belt and some cash you can get xna and visual c# for free if you are a student, then you can really make a name for yourself

At 11/3/09 02:13 PM, hdxmike wrote: but the thing is i think the educational system is fucked up , after 6th grade until university its all bullshit and mostly useless, im one of the top students anyway , everything is easy but thats the problem , what i need is something more specific that can challenge me AND prove useful to get a fitting job.

I think it depends on where you live and what education system you're in. But more importantly, if school isn't providing enough actual education for you, then you have to educate yourself. Sometimes I come back from school and realize...I haven't learned anything today! All we took, was stuff we'd probably forget once the semester was over, or stuff we knew before.

The thing is, you just need seek out the knowledge for yourself. It would really prove useful in the long run.

And do try to look farther than making a good living. And learn for the sake of learning. It really makes the world seem like a much larger, more interesting, mysterious place.

England £18,000 a year . Im moving somewhere warmer hopefully though

At 11/3/09 02:32 PM, hdxmike wrote: England £18,000 a year . Im moving somewhere warmer hopefully though

You can't live off £18k alone... not really

£18,000 for school a year

hdxmike: you're right about school, I dropped out after grade 9 and have been studying on my own for about close to a year now. As for you though, you're still much of a noob so you should raise your level more before acting.
It's certainly possible to live well without a formal education, especially if you live somewhere cheap and earn money through the internet.

At 11/3/09 01:50 PM, jmtb02 wrote: What? There's very little basis in any of these claims.

There is basis. Flash is a trainwreck and it's very hard to imagine it can keep going the same way it has since MX for five more years. CS4 doesn't run in 4gb and crashes at least once a day. To add any more bloat they have to start fixing that preceding, and do you think they'll do that? It doesn't seem they even can, seeing they've been desperately piling more shit on it to sell while the thing doesn't collapse.

At 11/3/09 12:52 PM, Rustygames wrote:

Don't take advice from ninja chickens.

Right, and the only reason Chuck Jones enjoyed his career, which he did until death, was because he had an education. Or perhaps he just had a passion for it.

At 11/5/09 08:34 AM, hdxmike wrote: £18,000 for school a year

Wow, why don't you just live off mummy and daddy if they can afford to pay that much! Also, might want to tell them it's a waste of money, you clearly aren't learning ;)

At 11/5/09 10:10 AM, GustTheASGuy wrote: It's certainly possible to live well without a formal education, especially if you live somewhere cheap and earn money through the internet.

I havn't had a formal education and I'm working full time for a top UK gambling firm. Making money through the internet is a bad idea, too unstable for me, I prefer the 9-5.

At 11/3/09 01:50 PM, jmtb02 wrote: What? There's very little basis in any of these claims.

There is basis. Flash is a trainwreck and it's very hard to imagine it can keep going the same way it has since MX for five more years. CS4 doesn't run in 4gb and crashes at least once a day. To add any more bloat they have to start fixing that preceding, and do you think they'll do that? It doesn't seem they even can, seeing they've been desperately piling more shit on it to sell while the thing doesn't collapse.

Flash might have 1 more version, but then it's over to flash builder ;)

At 11/5/09 12:53 PM, Rustygames wrote: I havn't had a formal education and I'm working full time for a top UK gambling firm. Making money through the internet is a bad idea, too unstable for me, I prefer the 9-5.

Not if you live somewhere cheap, like my location. $2k a month is luxury.

At 11/5/09 01:24 PM, GustTheASGuy wrote:

At 11/5/09 12:53 PM, Rustygames wrote: I havn't had a formal education and I'm working full time for a top UK gambling firm. Making money through the internet is a bad idea, too unstable for me, I prefer the 9-5.

Not if you live somewhere cheap, like my location. $2k a month is luxury.

That's true, UK it's not that easy though

That being said, Eduardo lives off Rustyarcade.com in Dominican Republic, so I suppose it is possible to live off of the internet!