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At 11/1/09 12:40 PM, pr0ded wrote: despite such users getting stuff done, like bilbo gates

hallucinogenic is too general, deliriants are the ones that cause hallucinations in the definition of the word

cannabis is a psychedelic, altered perception etc

there would be GREAT FAMINE

Ok please, I don't mean to be insulting here, but I can not understand shit of your posts. Your writing style just makes my brain hurt.

Also, people who say stuff like acid will give you clairvoyence; it's bullshit. I tried acid a few years ago; I thought I figured out a way to completely stop cancer (or some kind of disease, forgot which), because I had been reading Blacks medical dictionary. The next week I realized it was complete bullshit and I was an idiot. Stuff like Acid, LSD etc. makes you think you can learn everything, until you come down and you see that you've shit on your walls and for some reason there's a rabbit inside your dishwasher with a bow tied to it.

I was an idiot

well theres your problem, and i doubt you've taken it
going into an experience with nothing
unlike this man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kary_Mullis #Use_of_LSD
or francis crick

but I can not understand shit of your posts

i'll shit of your post

At 11/1/09 12:51 PM, TheStonePilot wrote: Stuff like Acid, LSD

interesting, but they the same thing

maybe go back to playing some "ecksbawks"

At 11/1/09 12:58 PM, pr0ded wrote:

At 11/1/09 12:51 PM, TheStonePilot wrote: Stuff like Acid, LSD

interesting, but they the same thing

maybe go back to playing some "ecksbawks"

I was referring to drugs in general. And yes, I have tried hallucinogenics before, back in community college.
And it's 'xbawks'.

Please don't shit in my posts

what does that mean? reply?

how about reply to my other post

drugs in general? does caffeine make you think you can "learn everything"

if you did try a "hallucinogenic" explain from start to finish what happened

At 10/31/09 09:17 AM, CloudEater wrote: Hallucinogenic drugs include... LSD (Lysergic Acid), Psilocybin mushrooms, PCP (Phencyclidine), Cannabis/Marijuana, and probably a few others...

Cannabis is not a hallucinogen.

What are your thoughts on these drugs?

I don't know about PCP, but for psilocybin &LSD , I think they have excellent potential for use in behavior modification.

Are these drugs really that much worse than alcohol and tobacco?

In regards to intoxication, yes, excluding cannabis of course & IDK about PCP

Should these drugs be taken more seriously?

Seriously how? Like I said I think, many hallucinogens have potential in psychiatric use, & they're generally not that dangerous.

Do you really care if people consume these drugs?

Yes, I would like it if more people tried these drugs.

What are you doing tomorrow night? etc....

Mind your business.

At 11/1/09 12:34 PM, TheStonePilot wrote:

At 11/1/09 11:02 AM, Elfer wrote: Shrooms should be not only legal, but mandatory. We could end all war in a week.

And we would get nothing done. The government would crash. Economy would crash. Millions (if not billions) dead.

Um, how? Why would the world come to a grinding halt if everyone tried shrooms?

At 11/1/09 02:30 PM, Elfer wrote:
Um, how? Why would the world come to a grinding halt if everyone tried shrooms?

How would the world come to a grinding halt if there was no one doing anything?
Or at least not doing it well

try studying when you think the tree outside has wing-branches. Try it. It's hard as fuck.

I might be biased against hallucinogenics because I've had terrible trips, but still.

it's a subjective experience, they're called "hallucinogens" not "genics", and the effects aren't permanent, or it's not like everyone will be doing at the same time

"During a symposium held for centenarian Albert Hofmann, "Hofmann revealed that he was told by Nobel-prize-winning chemist Kary Mullis that LSD had helped him develop the polymerase chain reaction that helps amplify specific DNA sequences."[18] Replying to his own postulate during an interview for BBC's Psychedelic Science documentary, "What if I had not taken LSD ever; would I have still invented PCR?" He replied, "I don't know. I doubt it. I seriously doubt it."

that man got something done

musicians too, music wouldn't be how it is without those substances, if you did take the drug, you could tell, as it alters your auditory perception so you can hear the music clearer.. the point behind 'psychedelic music'
and you would probably refer to them as 'psychedelics' not 'hallucinogenics'

and some drug users who stuff done:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countercult ure_of_the_1960s

At 11/1/09 03:27 PM, pr0ded wrote: it's a subjective experience, they're called "hallucinogens" not "genics", and the effects aren't permanent, or it's not like everyone will be doing at the same time

1) I was replying to his hypothetical situation
2) I'm not using the correct term, sue me.

"During a symposium held for centenarian Albert Hofmann, "Hofmann revealed that he was told by Nobel-prize-winning chemist Kary Mullis that LSD had helped him develop the polymerase chain reaction that helps amplify specific DNA sequences."[18] Replying to his own postulate during an interview for BBC's Psychedelic Science documentary, "What if I had not taken LSD ever; would I have still invented PCR?" He replied, "I don't know. I doubt it. I seriously doubt it."

that man got something done

Ok, a genius did something smart. Amazing.

musicians too, music wouldn't be how it is without those substances, if you did take the drug,

I have.

you could tell, as it alters your auditory perception so you can hear the music clearer.. the point behind 'psychedelic music'

I've never listened to music while trippin' ballz. Sorry.

and you would probably refer to them as 'psychedelics' not 'hallucinogenics'

See point two up there.

and some drug users who stuff done:

Aheheh, that made me laugh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countercult ure_of_the_1960s

Yes, hippies: clearly the peak of scientifically research.

Note that I don't stand either way on legalization; I was just responding to Elfer.

ok, a genius did something smart. Amazing.

What if I had not taken LSD ever; would I have still invented PCR?" He replied, "I don't know. I doubt it. I seriously doubt it."

musicians too, music wouldn't be how it is without those substances, if you did take the drug,

I have.

you could tell, as it alters your auditory perception so you can hear the music clearer.. the point behind 'psychedelic music'

I've never listened to music while trippin' ballz. Sorry.

except regardless of music, your auditory perception is altered

See point two up there.

Yes, hippies: clearly the peak of scientifically research.

it's social change
theres still this part
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countercult ure_of_the_1960s#Technology

1) I was replying to his hypothetical situation

except you make as if they're all taking it at the same time, distracting them from "studying"

despite it helping people with research

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries /news/2006/01/70015

At 11/1/09 03:35 PM, TheStonePilot wrote:
Note that I don't stand either way on legalization

note that you argue in supporting it
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1111 335/3

At 11/1/09 03:47 PM, pr0ded wrote:
note that you argue in supporting it
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1111 335/3

1) Most drugs that OP is referencing don't have extreme long-term side effects
2) What, it's illegal to be a hypocrite?

At 11/1/09 03:14 PM, TheStonePilot wrote: How would the world come to a grinding halt if there was no one doing anything?
Or at least not doing it well

Most people work ~8 hours a day. You think we couldn't squeeze a trip in there in the space of a week? A month? A year?

There's a lot of people out there who have used hallucinogens without their lives falling apart. If tripping was promoted in a safe, comfortable, positive environment at an appropriate time, the world would not fall apart.

At 11/1/09 04:17 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 11/1/09 03:14 PM, TheStonePilot wrote: How would the world come to a grinding halt if there was no one doing anything?
Or at least not doing it well

Most people work ~8 hours a day. You think we couldn't squeeze a trip in there in the space of a week? A month? A year?

For some reason I thought you were implying we should all be tripping 24/7.

At 11/1/09 12:34 PM, TheStonePilot wrote:

At 11/1/09 11:02 AM, Elfer wrote:

Also, I don't think marijuana would count as a hallucinogenic.

Marijuana is, technically, a very minor hallucinogen - it alters your perception of time and distances.

At 11/1/09 04:39 PM, TheStonePilot wrote: For some reason I thought you were implying we should all be tripping 24/7.

Nah. I just mean everyone needs to have one of those experiences where afterwards you'd have a really hard time bringing yourself to harm another human being.

I think they should be allowed to use them. There going to use them anyways. Plus it will kill off a few people. mainly the stupid one. I don't care if they want to kill themselves with drugs let them.

At 10/31/09 06:20 PM, RubberTrucky wrote:

At 10/31/09 05:37 PM, Victory wrote:
Strawman argument. Ericho never raised that as a point for legalisation in his post, and nothing indicated that he even took that stance.

You're so very right.
But I still oppose when people say it should be legalised because by being illegal people will dot it more (forbidden fruit issue).

Thanks for defending me, Victory. It's nice that RubberTrucky agrees with us, but I will say I do support the forbidden fruit argument because I heard that in the Netherlands after decrminialising marijuana, usage dropped from 11 to 6%, but I'm not sure of the exact number.

At 11/2/09 03:01 AM, darkrchaos wrote: I think they should be allowed to use them. There going to use them anyways.

If they were legal then people who usually wouldn't try drugs would be more likely to.

Plus it will kill off a few people. mainly the stupid one. I don't care if they want to kill themselves with drugs let them.

It's definently not true that only stupid people try drugs or that less inteligent people are more likely to do drugs.

At 11/12/09 06:48 AM, CloudEater wrote:

At 11/2/09 03:01 AM, darkrchaos wrote: I think they should be allowed to use them. There going to use them anyways.

If they were legal then people who usually wouldn't try drugs would be more likely to.

They should have every right to.

i mean, who the hell are the government to tell us we can't voluntarily ingest/inhale particular chemicals?

At 11/12/09 07:07 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 11/12/09 06:48 AM, CloudEater wrote:

At 11/2/09 03:01 AM, darkrchaos wrote: I think they should be allowed to use them. There going to use them anyways.

If they were legal then people who usually wouldn't try drugs would be more likely to.

They should have every right to.
i mean, who the hell are the government to tell us we can't voluntarily ingest/inhale particular chemicals?

If there was no government then people would not be able to exist in large numbers. If the government didn't care about what chemicals people consumed then there'd probably be alot less people alive, maybe if they leaglised it heaps of people would overdose and die which would scare others and then they would be to scared to try drugs. Your thoughts about this??

At 11/22/09 12:23 AM, CloudEater wrote: If there was no government then people would not be able to exist in large numbers.

i never said mentioned getting rid of government entirely.

If the government didn't care about what chemicals people consumed then there'd probably be alot less people alive,

If people are consensually consuming substances which they know are dangerous, then it should be their right to die.
I mean, sure, let's definitely not purposely kill them, but I'm sure society would be better off without the druggies anyway.

maybe if they leaglised it heaps of people would overdose and die which would scare others and then they would be to scared to try drugs. Your thoughts about this??

Nah, I'm pretty sure that if you're going to do drugs, you'll do drugs, regardless of their legality.

And as for scaring people, I'm pretty sure everyone knows the consequences of drug use already.

At 11/22/09 12:55 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Nah, I'm pretty sure that if you're going to do drugs, you'll do drugs, regardless of their legality.

That's just why we're looking for the legalization. People are always going to get worse versions of something if its illegal. During prohibition, everybody wanted to get alcohol but the only kind they could get (or at least the one that was easiest to get their hands on) was stuff even worse than alcohol. While I can't describe it, I firmly believe this is a good reason why drugs should be legalized as most of them are just as bad if not less than alcohol.

Do they change reality or do they let you SEE it?

reality check 1: you hallucinate
reality check 2: didn't stop the indians from making their sacrifices

At 10/31/09 09:17 AM, CloudEater wrote: What are your thoughts on these drugs?

Kinda on the fence on this one. On one hand they can be enlightening, on the other they can be absolutely terrifying.

Are these drugs really that much worse than alcohol and tobacco?

By a physical standpoint, probably not. By a mental standpoint - hell yeah. I've never been as scared in my life as I was when I had a bad mushroom trip.

Should these drugs be taken more seriously?

I think the whole "omg u will see spiders crawling out of your skin" and "omg u will c smurfs" shenanigans should stop. It tricks first time users into thinking the trip will be something it's not, which can be dangerous. My first shroom trip I went into thinking I'd see magical things like Alice in Wonderland or something, but it's nothing like that.

Do you really care if people consume these drugs?

As long as it's responsibly. Case in point: an old friend/dealer of mine decided to take an eighth of shrooms, then some ecstasy (hippy flip). I wasn't there but apparently he punched everyone in sight, even girls, and woke up in a hospital bed. You have to be in the right environment and under the right mindset otherwise shit gets way out of hand.

What are you doing tomorrow night? etc....

Not shrooms, or any hallucinogen for that matter. I've had enough crazy experiences for one lifetime so I'm done with them.

Oh yeah, and this is moreso my opinion on shrooms/LSD. Marijuana is so much different and that's a whole 'nother argument in itself. PCP I've never tried, never will, so I can't judge it.

i think the only way there could ever be a safe and legal way to do long term hallucinates like acid would be to have parlors or hotels that would have to be closely monitored and not allow the patron to leave until the drug is out of there system. or they would have to find some way to just keep the person away from operating a car or anything else dangerous while on it. on the plus side of legalizing certain hallucinogens there could be FDA monitoring eliminating bad ecstasy tabs that can kill people.

Guys we need to clear up some bullshit here. One, Halucinogens are probably the least perminantly harmful of all the drug catagories because they dont attack your nervous, respiratory, etc. All they do is alter brain chemistry temporarily.

Marijuana is not bad. When you look at the medical benefits in comparison to the adverse effects which really come down to impairment and short term memory loss on chronic use, you can see how much more beneficial Marijuana is: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/no-index/abo ut-ama/13625.shtml

Keep in mind the only reason it was criminalized was because of racist motives in the south against Hispanics and because the paper mill companies didn't want to convert to hemp because it would cost them millions of dollars.

As for other hallucinogenics:

Im not sure on the properties of LSD, Peyote, Psiliban, PCP, etc. but i do know about DMT. DMT is the strongest hallucinogenic known to man. It is a natural neurotransmitter made in the brain when you sleep. It is produced in the pineal gland located near the center of the brain. Dr. Rick Strassman has a huge argument behind the legalization behind DMT in his book "DMT: The Spirit Molecule". If you make it when you dream, it can't be that bad.