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At 10/28/09 08:49 PM, Fistbeard wrote:

At 10/28/09 05:18 PM, BananaBreadMuffin wrote:

At 10/28/09 05:10 PM, slingshot14 wrote: Story here.

I, for one, think this is bullshit.

Thing is though, they in no way have to let him wear it because they're a private company, the fir-

The thing is though, you're from a bullshit nanny state that doesn't let you cough without a tax for it.

Freedom of speech should be universal, no matter the company you work for/school you go to/gender you fuck/etc.

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Nobody is condemning him for what he believes and nobody is persuing legal action against him because of anything his buttons conveyed. He had the right to do what he did and he did it. The company had the right to fire him because he signed a contract binding him against doing it and he did it anyway. That's the end of it.

Come on man, this is basically the same as the lazy man who cries "They fired me 'cuz I'm BLACK!" Then you look into it more and find that he was always late to work, he never completed all of the tasks he was given each day, he was a poor customer service agent, he gave his friends free merchandise when they came in, etc... It had nothing to do with race, but he knows if he makes it out that way someone will be behind him.

It's all bullshit. Like I said, he probably lost his job more due to his own stubbornness in keeping that button on his apron than what the button actually said. What a way to lose your job...

definitely a violation of the bill of rights what else is new in this fucked up country.

i once made a button that said "adam for jesus" and yes my name is adam. i then wore it to school and multiple people expressed hatred toward it. i was LMAO.

Makes me want a burrito.

I don;t think they should have come out and terminate him, but they have every right to do so. It's their dress code, it's their policy, and it's perfectly legal in my opinion. When you work for a company, your actions and appearance represent the entire company. If Home Depot doesn't want to look like they're promoting religious beliefs or displaying them, then they can make their dress code say so.

They have just as much right to not let him wear that button as he has a right to display his religious beliefs in public. But as long as he works for them, then he's got to follow their rules. If he doesn't like the rules, then he needs to find another fucking job.

Also, I'm not saying any of this based on my religious beliefs, I'm saying this as a guy who is a business major.

What the fuck?
Why didn't he just stop whining and take off his button?

Hmm, very stupid. If he wants to display his beliefs, then why not? But seriously, this thread needs waaay more hedgehog.

At 10/28/09 11:29 PM, The777Demon wrote: definitely a violation of the bill of rights what else is new in this fucked up country.

If you had actually read through the thread properly, you'll see that this 'bill of rights' shit has been refuted at least, what, fifteen times by now?

Get a clue moron.

This is so ridiculous. I hate our country sometimes...

Thats the same thing as if home depot told a arab to take off their turban or they will get fired.

He should sue them.

Wow, I honestly wasn't expecting this to happen. I thought everyone was always saying that America was supposed to be a place obsessed with religion, but then again we no longer have a fundamentalist running the country. This is a case of discrimination, as it clearly shows that secular people can (not that they all are) be bigots and can discriminate.

they fired him over a button?

a fucking button? fuck them

At 10/29/09 11:20 AM, BillyTh3Kid wrote: Thats the same thing as if home depot told a arab to take off their turban or they will get fired.

He should sue them.

Arabs don't wear turbans.

Anyway, this wasn't about clothes, it was about decoration.

At 10/28/09 05:31 PM, LivinInTheSunlight wrote:
Instant troll alarm activated.

Abandon this thread. It's obvious this guy is trolling.

Did you bother to read the news story? Jackass >.>

At 10/29/09 01:53 PM, JohnnyWang wrote: Arabs don't wear turbans.

Anyway, this wasn't about clothes, it was about decoration.

I would imagine that in a workplace, certain religious clothings would be even more disruptive and cumbersome than religious pins, buttons, jewelry etc., although religious clothing isn't necessarily making some sort of statement like in this case. Either way, if employers have the right to fire people for wearing religious decorations, they should also have the right to fire people for wearing religious clothing. If you have a dress code at work, it's only fair that it applies to everyone, and no religion should have any special privileges mandated by the law.

At 10/29/09 02:40 PM, AapoJoki wrote:

At 10/29/09 01:53 PM, JohnnyWang wrote: Arabs don't wear turbans.

Anyway, this wasn't about clothes, it was about decoration.

I would imagine that in a workplace, certain religious clothings would be even more disruptive and cumbersome than religious pins, buttons, jewelry etc., although religious clothing isn't necessarily making some sort of statement like in this case. Either way, if employers have the right to fire people for wearing religious decorations, they should also have the right to fire people for wearing religious clothing. If you have a dress code at work, it's only fair that it applies to everyone, and no religion should have any special privileges mandated by the law.

The button is arguably a patriotic decoration and not a religious piece of clothing. It has a phrase specifically from the declaration of independence which is not contained in any religious text I'm aware of and I'm also not aware of that particular button being part of any religious clothing. He also agreed not to wear any decorations that were not assigned to him when he signed his employment contract.

Unless someone can prove that specific button is a part of his specific religion then he shouldn't have worn it at work. Islamic dress is a part of Islamic religion and the fact that it is makes it very different to wearing a button with an excerpt from the declaration of independence.

At 10/29/09 02:56 PM, Snake-Arsenic wrote: It has a phrase specifically from the declaration of independence

Nope.

Anyway, of course, if I was an employer, I wouldn't ban such decoration. As long as piins and buttons aren't offensive, or of a dstracting size, I wouldn't really see a problem with a generally inofenssive political message like that.

However, this employer had a strict code, and the employee was given a simple choise; take off the pin or get out. He wasn't just fired for wearing that pin, he was fired because he didn't take it off after asked to.

At 10/29/09 02:56 PM, Snake-Arsenic wrote: Unless someone can prove that specific button is a part of his specific religion then he shouldn't have worn it at work. Islamic dress is a part of Islamic religion and the fact that it is makes it very different to wearing a button with an excerpt from the declaration of independence.

Whether or not he had a specific religious motivation to wear the button is irrelevant. If you have a dress code at work, then you abide by it, period. If your religion tells you to wear something at work that your boss doesn't like, then you need to change your job or change your religion.

At 10/28/09 05:30 PM, slingshot14 wrote: To those of you saying that the company had a right to fire him because he was breaking company policy I say, bullshit. When it comes to asserting your position as a child of God, no company policies matter. God comes first.

whooray for theocracy!!! and you think we are better than iran's clergy politics? you are exactly what is wrong with this nation. you "godly" folks who cannot separate delusion from reality, and force your narrowminded, ancient folklore myth down our throats, saying completely illogical crap like this.

you think this country was found on religion? no it was found on the very idea of separation of chruch and state. your "god comes first" statement is the reason why we left England in the first place.

At 10/28/09 05:18 PM, BananaBreadMuffin wrote:

At 10/28/09 05:10 PM, slingshot14 wrote: Story here.

I, for one, think this is bullshit.

Thing is though, they in no way have to let him wear it because they're a private company, the first amendment means shit all to them. If they have a company rule that says no non-company pins on your apron, you're not allowed non-company pins on your apron, regardless of what they say and are.

Besides, there's no way he'll win if this ever gets to court, it's not like he was banned from wearing a jewish skullcap or a muslim burka or something. There's no real infringement on his rights other than his right to be a dick to his employer and REFUSE TO TAKE OFF A FUCKING BAGE FROM HIS SHITTY APRON.

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quote-
"Fishel said Keezer was offered a company-approved pin that said, "United We Stand," but he declined."
-quote
He was given the opportunity to remove the button. Im also sure he was informed on the companys policy pertaining to the pin. Non of his rights were violated cause he signed a contract to work there and abide by their rule and regulations. Also no where in any Christian type religion is wearing a button required. I'm a member of the US Army and deploy in DEC and appreciate that he is "supporting the troops". But I feel no remorse for his dumb ass getting fired for breaking a simple rule. Specially when they offered him a simple alternative. He could have worn the other button and a necklace with a cross on it...or one of those stupid ass rubber bracelets. And its not like they had a problem with him reading the bible on his lunch breaks.

I'm pretty sure they're not allowed to fire him for such a thing. If people get offended by someone expressing their love for God or America, then that's their problem, quite frankly.

Rules are rules.

At 10/29/09 11:20 AM, BillyTh3Kid wrote: Thats the same thing as if home depot told a arab to take off their turban or they will get fired.

He should sue them.

No its not the same thing at all...get a clue guy.
Buttons arnt part of the Christian faith...where as "turbans" ARE part of the Islamic religion and they would not fire a Muslim if he choose to wear one.

At 10/29/09 03:07 PM, AapoJoki wrote: Whether or not he had a specific religious motivation to wear the button is irrelevant. If you have a dress code at work, then you abide by it, period. If your religion tells you to wear something at work that your boss doesn't like, then you need to change your job or change your religion.

Exactly. Once you agree to a dress code in an employment contract, if you violate it then you can get fired for breaching your contract. Also this is a classic media story because it generates a lot of interest in both arguments, and I doubt people would have the same reaction to an atheist being fired for a button saying "God is a delusion" or "Atheist for Jesus" which can also happen if it violates company dress code.

At 10/29/09 03:13 PM, AlphaCentauri wrote: Rules are rules.

this is the best answer of all.

thanks socretes!(no sarcasm)

At 10/28/09 05:18 PM, BananaBreadMuffin wrote: There's no real infringement on his rights other than his right to be a dick to his employer and REFUSE TO TAKE OFF A FUCKING BAGE FROM HIS SHITTY APRON.

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Chill out, dude.
You want some Ritalin?

At 10/29/09 03:14 PM, HellboundNinja wrote: where as "turbans" ARE part of the Islamic religion and they would not fire a Muslim if he choose to wear one.

The vast majority of Muslim men don't wear any kind of headwear. There are also a lot of Muslim women (I can name at least two) who don't wear headscarves either. If they're Muslims and don't wear these clothes, then no one else can claim they have to wear them either.

If the employer wants to make a policy of permitting religious clothing, then that's entirely his choice. However, it's nonsense that he should be FORCED to this apply kind of policy by the law.

At 10/29/09 03:14 PM, HellboundNinja wrote: "turbans" ARE part of the Islamic religion

Oh for- No. Turbans are worn by Sikhs. Islam has Hijabs for women, and devout muslim men might wear a kufi.

Hijab can be worn in a colour that fits the uniform, and generally, non-obtrusive headwear is allowed in most retail jobs.

At 10/29/09 03:25 PM, AapoJoki wrote:

At 10/29/09 03:14 PM, HellboundNinja wrote: where as "turbans" ARE part of the Islamic religion and they would not fire a Muslim if he choose to wear one.

The vast majority of Muslim men don't wear any kind of headwear. There are also a lot of Muslim women (I can name at least two) who don't wear headscarves either. If they're Muslims and don't wear these clothes, then no one else can claim they have to wear them either.

Certain sects and groups of Islam do require the headwear to be worn, it depends on the individual Muslim in question. Just how not all Jewish people keep kosher even though Judaism sets those rules, not all Muslims are compelled to wear traditional dress.

Of course, there's a difference between wearing clothing mandated by a religious belief and wearing something promoting some sort of theistic values that is worn purely out of individual choice.

At 10/29/09 03:33 PM, JohnnyWang wrote:

At 10/29/09 03:14 PM, HellboundNinja wrote: "turbans" ARE part of the Islamic religion

Oh for- No. Turbans are worn by Sikhs. Islam has Hijabs for women, and devout muslim men might wear a kufi.

Hijab can be worn in a colour that fits the uniform, and generally, non-obtrusive headwear is allowed in most retail jobs.

LOL
I knew I was wrong wiht the specifics but the general idea was conveyed. Thanks for the clear up.