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It's not 'blackness'. You wouldn't be conscious to see any 'blackness'.

It would be 'nothingness'.

You don't have any consciousness. Your brain activity has ceased. You're nothing more than a pile of meat and bones, and later a pile of bones (or ash).

And you don't have to be religious to have morals.

I simply have no desire to rape, kill and pillage anything that I see.

At 10/28/09 05:32 PM, JohnnyWang wrote:

I mean, what is more important, the possibility of meeting your loved ones in the potential next world, or being with them in this world?

I'd rather be with them in both world's. Its not like I dont make the most of my life but to think of nothing after death just seems scary to be hinest. Although you cease to feel, the thought before that is just unbearable but at least with heaven that makes me happy. Isnt thats what important? Because if you believe there's a heaven you can be happy when you die but if you dont believe in heaven but nothingness then how can that make you happy?

I beleive we get to be born again or as a Animal.

At 10/28/09 05:00 PM, MrPercie wrote: Well because athiest's believe there is no god, heaven or hell then what happens when they die? is it just blackness?

It's like how it was before you were born.

Because I always wondered that if there was no hell then why dont I just rape, murder and steal if I wont have to suffer for it when I die

People who believe in heaven and hell still do those things. The difference is that they are quite good at convincing themselves and others that god will forgive them for it.

The fact of the matter is that if someone wants to commit the most evil crime imaginable, the threat of 'hell' isn't enough to stop them even if they genuinely believe that hell is a real place. Like I said, they are convinced that god will forgive them for any sin they commit. This kind of mentality is a lot more dangerous than any kind of rational atheist mentality.

At 10/28/09 05:36 PM, Aigis wrote: It's not 'blackness'. You wouldn't be conscious to see any 'blackness'.

It would be 'nothingness'.

That's such a useless answer. "Ooh, it's not blackness, it's nothingness which is totally different." In every "what happens when you die" thread someone says that, but it doesn't directly answer the question, if it answers it at all.

At 10/28/09 05:44 PM, Chdonga wrote:

At 10/28/09 05:36 PM, Aigis wrote: It's not 'blackness'. You wouldn't be conscious to see any 'blackness'.

It would be 'nothingness'.

That's such a useless answer. "Ooh, it's not blackness, it's nothingness which is totally different." In every "what happens when you die" thread someone says that, but it doesn't directly answer the question, if it answers it at all.

I don't see what is so bad about that answer. Blackness and nothingness most certainly are different things. How you can imply that they aren't is beyond me.

At 10/28/09 05:36 PM, MrPercie wrote:
Because if you believe there's a heaven you can be happy when you die but if you dont believe in heaven but nothingness then how can that make you happy?

It doesn't make me happy but it doesn't make me sad. It makes me appreciate the life I have been lucky enough to have. I think this is a fundamental problem with society today, the idea that we should always be happy. News flash: life sucks sometimes, unfourtunate things happen. Stiffen that upper lip and get on with it, we only get one shot at it.

I like it how in threads like this one or two replies like "Nothing happens. You cease to exist." just aren't enough, there has to be atleast twenty.

Well what would be the point of making the most of your life if when you die you dont remember because your brain is gone. Didnt matter if you found the cure for cancer because if you just didnt exist anymore, although people are happy for you, you wont hear it or know it. your just gone.

At 10/28/09 05:36 PM, MrPercie wrote: I'd rather be with them in both world's. Its not like I dont make the most of my life but to think of nothing after death just seems scary to be hinest. Although you cease to feel, the thought before that is just unbearable but at least with heaven that makes me happy. Isnt thats what important? Because if you believe there's a heaven you can be happy when you die but if you dont believe in heaven but nothingness then how can that make you happy?

If you need tobelieve that to be happy, fine, it doesn't consern me. As long as you're not telling me, or anyone else, how to live their life, you're free to believe what ever you want.

I on the other hand, don't feel like I need to believe so. I've lost loved ones, and yeah, it's sad that I won't see them again, but I have the memoris of them, and the values they taught me, and memories and lessons are how I will live on when I die.

Philosophically, I find it hard to believe in an eternal life, with a 70-some-years-long demo period of uncertainty first. Does not compute.

Clearly the only reason not to rape, steal and break the law is to get into heaven.

At 10/28/09 05:44 PM, Chdonga wrote:
That's such a useless answer. "Ooh, it's not blackness, it's nothingness which is totally different." In every "what happens when you die" thread someone says that, but it doesn't directly answer the question, if it answers it at all.

"blackness" implies senses continue to exists. "Nothingness" menas that your senses shut down. THere is no longer any sensation.

You can stiull make the most of your life and go to heaven. If you dont then you still go to heaven but you just dont have any accomplishments or good memories when your there. But really, if everyone was making the most of there life we wouldnt get many accomplishments today. Because if we were to accomplish something if it either was a disease, a theory or anything else it would take maybe years of dedication. Thtas how we have had great people. But if they had spent years of working they didnt make the most of there life. Although there happy with what they have done there still so much more happyiness they could have had if they didnt.

At 10/28/09 05:53 PM, milinko959 wrote: Clearly the only reason not to rape, steal and break the law is to get into heaven.

Other than that, all I can see is avoiding the artificial consequences that come from authority. Which is to say, as far as I'm concerned all morality is built on the commands of authority, whether that authority is God or man. Lucky for the people around me, I believe in God and the afterlife.

At 10/28/09 05:00 PM, MrPercie wrote: so what do you expect when you die?

When you die, you die. You will close your eyes and keep looking at darkness

At 10/28/09 06:05 PM, SoulMaster71 wrote: Other than that, all I can see is avoiding the artificial consequences that come from authority.

I don't see such consequences as artificial. People who don't believe in an afterlife genuinely only believe that they have one life. For them, the consequences of rape, murder, robbery, etc. are very real consequences that will get them locked away for life. It isn't a case of "There's no hell so I might as well kill people", it's a case of "I only get one life so there's no point pissing it away by getting myself locked up".

That is, of course, if all morality is out of the question, which of course it isn't. The whole problem with this debate is that the OP has equated morality with blind obedience. He considers behaving out of fear of reprisal to be the same as behaving out of sheer morality. They are completely different things, and I would challenge him to find any evidence to support a logical progression between atheism and immorality.

At 10/28/09 06:04 PM, MrPercie wrote: You can stiull make the most of your life and go to heaven.

Ah, but here we get to the problem of religoous law.

Personally, I lead a life that goes against the bible and koran. Also, hindu dogma would give me a lot of bad karma, and I'm far too pleassure-orinted to achieve enlightenment in Buddhism.

If I live my life in the way I feel is living life to the fullest, that doesn't break my own moral code (which is more based on Kant's Categorical Imperative), most religions would condemn me to hell, or a lesser reincarnation.

Maybe it's purgatory. Who the fuck knows. Religion makes no sense after a while.

Im not religious, I dont have a religion but I believe in science and god. I know people only try to believe in one but why? I dont see any good from what you athiest's believe. You give the same reasons as any other religion to be a good person and have a good life but for there to be no afterlife makes life seem pointless as it is because if your brain doesnt work when you die so you dont know shit or remember so didnt matter how bad you was you will forget which is also bypassing judgement. Sure a man who has his life spent in prison for half his life is gunna make him sa but when he dies he forgets it all because hes dead. So really why be good if you dont remember?

At 10/28/09 06:19 PM, MrPercie wrote: Im not religious, I dont have a religion but I believe in science and god.

Pick one and convert.

I know people only try to believe in one but why? I dont see any good from what you athiest's believe.

Just let them live in the moment. Maybe they'll realize that questioning the sense of a religion and trying to disprove it is utterly pointless as it might only covert a couple of conformists.

You give the same reasons as any other religion to be a good person and have a good life but for there to be no afterlife makes life seem pointless as it is because if your brain doesnt work when you die so you dont know shit...

And that's where I stopped understanding your question.

At 10/28/09 06:24 PM, Chdonga wrote:

You give the same reasons as any other religion to be a good person and have a good life but for there to be no afterlife makes life seem pointless as it is because if your brain doesnt work when you die so you dont know shit...

And that's where I stopped understanding your question.

Basicly it didnt matter what you did in your life you wont remember it because your brain isnt funtioning. If you could some how think in the middle of nothingness implys some sort of magic or something like that.

At 10/28/09 06:19 PM, MrPercie wrote: I dont see any good from what you athiest's believe.

I quote the poet Nasir Bi Olu-Dara Jones. "Life's a bitch and then you die". I don't need any fairytales to feel better about it. I live life, not saving up for any afterlife. I save up for the next generations. That's where we'll keep on living. In our legacy. that's what's important.

At 10/28/09 06:29 PM, MrPercie wrote: Basicly it didnt matter what you did in your life you wont remember it because your brain isnt funtioning. If you could some how think in the middle of nothingness implys some sort of magic or something like that.

If your brain isn't functioning it can't think. Your comment is invalid.

btw you're existentialist.

At 10/28/09 06:29 PM, MrPercie wrote:

At 10/28/09 06:24 PM, Chdonga wrote:

Basicly it didnt matter what you did in your life you wont remember it because your brain isnt funtioning. If you could some how think in the middle of nothingness implys some sort of magic or something like that.

Why does forgetting something change the value of that action at the time?

It's all about 'now', rather than 'later'.

Wouldn't you want the baby to be happy in its first few years of life, even though it won't remember them when it grows up?

Im still not seeing any answers for my recent questions.

The lights go out.

At 10/28/09 06:33 PM, MrPercie wrote: Im still not seeing any answers for my recent questions.

That paragraph of meandering diatribe you posted up there made it clear that you consider personal reward to be the only reason anyone should have for living a good life. You say that you dislike what atheists believe (which in itself is a paradox, but whatever) and yet you yourself say that there's no point in living a good life if there's no afterlife waiting for you at the end.

At 10/28/09 06:33 PM, MrPercie wrote: Im still not seeing any answers for my recent questions.

Look again, we posted at the same time.

At 10/28/09 05:00 PM, MrPercie wrote: Because I always wondered that if there was no hell then why dont I just rape, murder and steal if I wont have to suffer for it when I die

There are several reasons why I wouldn't do those things, even if there is no hell. I'll list them here in no particular order of importance.

The most obvious reason of course is that I don't want to go to prison, or be forced to offer any kind of compensations, or otherwise meet the consequences such actions. The simplest way to avoid capture is never to commit a crime in the first place.

Then there is the fact that I wouldn't want anyone to do these things to me. If I feel myself entitled to these acts, then I cannot blame anyone for claiming the right to do these things to me. To extend it a little, I wouldn't want to live in a society where stealing, murder and rape are acceptable. I wouldn't want anyone to do them to my future children, siblings, cousins, nephews or nieces either.

The simplest reason is perhaps that I find the thought of these things, especially rape and murder, to be repulsive. If I ever tried to do it, I wouldn't have the stomach to carry it out. This phenomenon is colloquially known as "conscience" and it has an evolutionary origin.

(unless I am captured by the cops but I will still have done things to make me happy)

So I take it that if there was no celestial dictator to watch over for all your actions and thoughts, raping, stealing and murdering would make you happy? If I ever committed rape or murder, or even a major theft, I would feel miserable for the rest of my life, even if I'm not caught.

At 10/28/09 06:38 PM, yurgenburgen wrote:

there's no point in living a good life if there's no afterlife waiting for you at the end.

Well in the athiest way. Why dont we just do what we want to do? It can be good or bad as long as it made the person happy because if it doesnt make them feel bad then they will feel fine. If you died and could remember what you did then living a good life would be important because you may feel depressed you didnt do more. But the athiest way that your mind is just gone so you dont think or remember what you did. sooooo whats the point?