Forum Topic: The French on Scientology

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LordJaric

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Posted at: 10/27/09 02:18 PM

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Well well well it looks like the Church of Scientology is getting hit hard by the French.

In my opinion the French took this the right way, by fining the leaders and giving them jail time, but not banning Scientology.

Common sense isn't so common any more.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"


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Yorik

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Posted at: 10/27/09 03:00 PM

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How could you ban a religion, anyway? We aren't to the point where we can police peoples' minds yet. I know that people have tried to ban religions throughout history but it was always futile.


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SolInvictus

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Posted at: 10/27/09 03:06 PM

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gotta be careful with this; making martyrs and victims out of them would only help their cause.

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ReiperX

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Posted at: 10/27/09 03:57 PM

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I do applaud the French government on cracking down on this "religion".

I'm glad to see they have the backbone to stand up to it. This "reilgion" goes so much farther than others at taking money from the people and using intimidation on anyone that opposes them.


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Zendra

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Posted at: 10/27/09 04:01 PM

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At 10/27/09 03:57 PM, ReiperX wrote: I do applaud the French government on cracking down on this "religion".

I don't. Scientology is officially by law in France a sect. So if they consider it already as a sect, then it should be banished.

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Elfer

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Posted at: 10/27/09 04:45 PM

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I think the courts were fairly succinct in their reason not to ban it, they would just keep doing what they're doing but it would be harder to keep tabs on them.

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ohbombuh

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Posted at: 10/27/09 05:50 PM

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At 10/27/09 03:06 PM, SolInvictus wrote: gotta be careful with this; making martyrs and victims out of them would only help their cause.

Or it would just convince all the idiots who think it'll make Tom Cruise their friend leave the group.

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SadHatter

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Posted at: 10/28/09 06:08 AM

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At 10/27/09 03:06 PM, SolInvictus wrote: gotta be careful with this; making martyrs and victims out of them would only help their cause.

somehow I dont think you can make a martyr out of fraud


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Ericho

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Posted at: 10/28/09 12:38 PM

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I'm very impressed by this, as I think it really sets off the stereotype that the French are weak. Sure, this wasn't about physical confrontations, but it's always great to see people stand up against religious fundamentalism. I keep hearing that Europe is becoming more secular. Is France adopting this as well?

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Sajberhippien

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Posted at: 10/28/09 03:16 PM

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At 10/28/09 12:38 PM, Ericho wrote: I'm very impressed by this, as I think it really sets off the stereotype that the French are weak.

The french aren't weak. Actually, if there's something we can learn from history, is that when the french are mad, things burn. Ever since 1789, france has been had the best riots in the world.

You shouldn't believe that you have the right of free thinking, it's a threat to our democracy.

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Ericho

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Posted at: 10/29/09 12:25 PM

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At 10/28/09 03:16 PM, Sajberhippien wrote: The french aren't weak. Actually, if there's something we can learn from history, is that when the french are mad, things burn. Ever since 1789, france has been had the best riots in the world.

Uh yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. It's a stereotype that they're weak, like the stereotype that Asians are bad drivers or something like that. I'm in no way saying it's true, nor was it ever.

You know the world's gone crazy when the best rapper's a white guy and the best golfer's a black guy - Chris Rock


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SolInvictus

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Posted at: 10/29/09 06:01 PM

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At 10/28/09 06:08 AM, SadHatter wrote:
At 10/27/09 03:06 PM, SolInvictus wrote: gotta be careful with this; making martyrs and victims out of them would only help their cause.
somehow I dont think you can make a martyr out of fraud

eh, you'd be surprised.

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Victory

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Posted at: 10/29/09 06:13 PM

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come on guys these people have a right to their beliefs and a right for those beliefs not to be questioned or criticised by anyone

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Yorik

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Posted at: 10/29/09 07:22 PM

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At 10/29/09 06:01 PM, SolInvictus wrote:
At 10/28/09 06:08 AM, SadHatter wrote:
At 10/27/09 03:06 PM, SolInvictus wrote: gotta be careful with this; making martyrs and victims out of them would only help their cause.
somehow I dont think you can make a martyr out of fraud
eh, you'd be surprised.

¿Que?

The French on Scientology


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LordJaric

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Posted at: 10/29/09 08:18 PM

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At 10/29/09 06:13 PM, Victory wrote: come on guys these people have a right to their beliefs and a right for those beliefs not to be questioned or criticised by anyone

The Government is not questioning their beliefs, they just caught soome of the leaders on fraud.

Common sense isn't so common any more.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"


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TheStonePilot

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Posted at: 10/29/09 08:38 PM

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At 10/29/09 06:13 PM, Victory wrote: come on guys these people have a right to their beliefs and a right for those beliefs not to be questioned or criticised by anyone

They do when their beliefs are potentially harmful. For example the hatred against psychiatrists and the ban on drugs.


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Tancrisism

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Posted at: 10/29/09 08:41 PM

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At 10/29/09 07:22 PM, Yorik wrote: ¿Que?

That's making fraud out of martyr.

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Victory

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Posted at: 10/29/09 08:48 PM

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At 10/29/09 08:38 PM, TheStonePilot wrote:
At 10/29/09 06:13 PM, Victory wrote: come on guys these people have a right to their beliefs and a right for those beliefs not to be questioned or criticised by anyone
They do when their beliefs are potentially harmful. For example the hatred against psychiatrists and the ban on drugs.

stop being so arrogant and offensive

you are OFFENDING ME

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mikailus

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Posted at: 10/30/09 07:46 AM

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At 10/27/09 04:01 PM, Zendra wrote: I don't. Scientology is officially by law in France a sect. So if they consider it already as a sect, then it should be banished.

A sect is part of a religion, not something entirely different like... a cult. In this case, it's a racket.

Meanwhile, here's proof that the "church" is coming apart: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUiUyVqOu JI&feature=player_embedded

If someone came to me and asked me if in Islam, Muhammad is worshipped or that in heaven there's 72 virgins, I'd give a straight answer. I won't accuse the questioner of being "offensive" and bitch and walk out. Ironically enough, this is the same spokesman that stalked and harassed a BBC reporter from making a documentary about Scientology.

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morefngdbs

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Posted at: 10/30/09 10:36 AM

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At 10/29/09 06:13 PM, Victory wrote: come on guys these people have a right to their beliefs and a right for those beliefs not to be questioned or criticised by anyone

;;;
No they do not.
They are no better than any other group of deluded individuals.
Why is it that you get a group who seem to believe , because they're in a group their delusions should somehow carry more importance.
These people are nothing more than conmen & women who are stealing naive, vulnerable people's money.

Those who have only the religious opinions & thoughts of others in their head. Have no room for their own thoughts & no room to contemplate anyone elses ideas either.- More


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Victory

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Posted at: 10/30/09 06:23 PM

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At 10/30/09 10:36 AM, morefngdbs wrote: No they do not.
They are no better than any other group of deluded individuals.
Why is it that you get a group who seem to believe , because they're in a group their delusions should somehow carry more importance.
These people are nothing more than conmen & women who are stealing naive, vulnerable people's money.

no

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Proteas

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Posted at: 10/30/09 06:56 PM

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Two things that are irritating the HELL out of me in this topic; the use of the word "martyr" and the use of the word "ban."

A martyr is someone who dies sooner than renounces their own beliefs. It's that simple. You are not a martyr for your cause by being fined by the government anymore than I am a martyr because I had to suffer through Subway not having honey wheat bread to make my sandwich with. It doesn't work that way. You might could make the case that the leaders of Scientology in France are being persecuted by the French Government, but persecution implies unfair harassment to the point of said treatment being unbearable. Which leads me to my second point....

Scientology has not been banned in France. Their leaders were given a minuscule punitive fine following an investigation into an initial complaint stating they refused to refund money (21,000 euros) to someone who bought books and went to classes for Scientology, then decided they didn't want to be part of the group. 600K euros to a group that has 10 million members worldwide, worship centers across several countries, a thriving junk and "fixed" donations from it's own members is CHUMP CHANGE, hardly persecution by any stretch of the imagination. If anything, this more being done to give the Church bad press and to help cast doubt and suspicion on their activities, itself a far better tactic to help get rid of them than any attempt to ban them.

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