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Why love one but eat the other?

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EclecticEnnui
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Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 04:45 PM Reply

A poster campaign was launched in Toronto's subway system, this year, regarding animal rights and meat eating. The posters said, "Why love one but eat the other?" There'd be a dog or cat on the left and a chicken, pig, or cow on the right, along with interesting facts about the latter animals, like how they can be just as loving and intelligent as dogs and cats. Maybe even more. The ads were for this site.

I'm a meat eater, but that's only because I was brought up that way. My parents never told me why we eat meat, about the abuse that happens on factory farms (shown on the site), etc. The factory farm abuse is probably nothing new to you guys, but what about comparing dogs and cats to these animals? For instance, "According to animal behaviorist Dr. Chris Evans, chickens are as smart as mammals, including some primates. He explains that chickens are able to understand that recently hidden objects still exist, which is beyond the capacity of small children. Furthermore, Dr. Joy Mench, professor and director of the Center for Animal Welfare at the University of California at Davis explains, "Chickens show sophisticated social behavior. They can recognize more than a hundred other chickens and remember them. They have more than thirty types of vocalizations." (Reference)

Environmental and health issues of eating meat aren't ignored, either. "Vegans have much lower rates of obesity, and on average weigh 10% less than non-vegetarians." (Reference) I continued researching and found this article which supports that reference.

Why are humans omnivores? I think it's by choice. I mean what else could there be? We don't have to eat meat if we don't want to and we won't die because of it. So far, for me, being vegetarian or vegan doesn't sound like a bad idea. It'd be way less hypocritical than eating meat and caring for a dog or cat.

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riemannSum
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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 05:10 PM Reply

Did you really just ask why we're omnivores?

Well since that question brings us allllll the way back to prehistoric times, when we didn't have farms, plantations, or large farming corporations to bring us all the veggies we wanted, packed full of enriched nutrients... Well the answer just seems pretty obvious to me.

I eat meat for a few reasons:

- It's delicious.
- It's natural.
- It provides the right amount of nutrition without having to go crazy overboard.
- Vegetarians are all retarded as far as I can tell.
- I don't give a fuck how animals are treated. Why should I?

You point out that vegans have lower obesity rates, that has nothing to do with the fact that they're vegans, but instead with the fact that they are more mentally aware of what they consume. Correlation =/= causation.

My main point, though, is why do I care how animals are treated?

darkrchaos
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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 05:10 PM Reply

Thats not true, not eating meat is very unhealthy, you don't get the right proteins that u need. Most people that are vegetarians usually take vitamin pills to get what they should get from meat

Why are humans omnivores? I think it's by choice. I mean what else could there be? We don't have to eat meat if we don't want to and we won't die because of it. So far, for me, being vegetarian or vegan doesn't sound like a bad idea. It'd be way less hypocritical than eating meat and caring for a dog or cat.

FAQ

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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 05:40 PM Reply

Would you get your cat to pull a plough?
How about using a gerbil to herd sheep?

It's the same reason why I don't eat dogs: they're better of doing other jobs. You know, the ones we've bred them for. Just like we've bred cows and pigs for their meat.

There's nothing wrong with eating a dog, it's just a waste of talent.

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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 05:47 PM Reply

I've always loved dogs...but if I find it on the menu when i go to Korea...I'll try it .
I'd eat cat in a second...looks like a rabbit once you remove the the head, hide & feet ! & rabbits tastey .


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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 05:54 PM Reply

Ace.

At 10/21/09 05:40 PM, IETFB wrote: Would you get your cat to pull a plough?
How about using a gerbil to herd sheep?

Or better yet, would a big cat NOT eat you given the chance? Evolution favors the strong.


It's the same reason why I don't eat dogs: they're better of doing other jobs. You know, the ones we've bred them for. Just like we've bred cows and pigs for their meat.

There's nothing wrong with eating a dog, it's just a waste of talent.

Just fucking ace. I love you, man.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 05:56 PM Reply

At 10/21/09 04:45 PM, EclecticEnnui wrote: Why are humans omnivores? I think it's by choice.

It's by our biology: we possess both sharp and flat teeth that allow us to both rend meat and grind vegitables. Also, we have eyes that both see forward and thus allowing binocular vision, a trait shared by almost all carnivores.


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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 06:09 PM Reply

If they're going to be like that about it, I can eat dogs and cats too.


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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 06:09 PM Reply

Tell you the truth. If those people are so upset that we eat cows, chickens, pigs, etc for there meat and what not they would be appauled if they actually went to the savannahs of Africa. I love animals like my dog and my cat and could probably love a pet cow. Then again theres alot of cows in north america and they provide alot more meat then a dog.

You see we cheat, Humanity pritty much went "Screw you food chain" and went all the way to the top once we had swords and arrows and later guns. We would probably still be hunting in massive groups for one Bison or something like that if we didnt have guns.


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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 06:12 PM Reply

If people didn't want beef and chicken, there wouldn't be a meat industry. Just let it happen, because it's going to happen regardless.


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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 06:13 PM Reply

At 10/21/09 06:09 PM, Digital-Terror wrote: If they're going to be like that about it, I can eat dogs and cats too.

You're gonna love Vietnam...


When all else fails, blame the casuals!

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EclecticEnnui
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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 06:34 PM Reply

At 10/21/09 05:10 PM, riemannSum wrote: Did you really just ask why we're omnivores?

Well since that question brings us allllll the way back to prehistoric times, when we didn't have farms, plantations, or large farming corporations to bring us all the veggies we wanted, packed full of enriched nutrients... Well the answer just seems pretty obvious to me.

This isn't the prehistoric times, anymore. Humans are way more evolved now, with technology, skyscrapers, human rights, etc. People ate meat back then for the reasons you gave, but also probably because they didn't care or know any better. We're not like that, anymore. We do care and we do know better.

I eat meat for a few reasons:

- It's delicious.

Well, do you eat chemically produced meat with sauce and spices? How often does a person, especially from first world countries, cut a piece from an animal, cook it, and eat it like that? If the meat you eat is delicious, it's probably not just meat.

- It's natural.

It's natural if you were brought up that way, just like if you were brought up as a vegetarian or vegan. Anything can be natural from the way you're brought up.

- It provides the right amount of nutrition without having to go crazy overboard.

Who says vegetarians and vegans have to go crazy overboard to get the right amount of nutrition?

- Vegetarians are all retarded as far as I can tell.

Generalization with nothing to back it up. If you know (not met) four or five of them, that doesn't mean they're all retarded.

- I don't give a fuck how animals are treated. Why should I?

You point out that vegans have lower obesity rates, that has nothing to do with the fact that they're vegans, but instead with the fact that they are more mentally aware of what they consume. Correlation =/= causation.

I know people can eat meat and not be obese, but on average, vegans still have lower rates.

Also, if you had bothered to read the reference, "In addition to [vegans] looking slimmer, being lighter reduces the risk of a myriad of health problems including respiratory problems, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.

In a study of over 25,000 Seventh Day Adventists, vegetarians were found to have significantly lower rates of diabetes. Among men in the study, risk for diabetes was a whopping 80% higher in men who ate meat, after adjusting for weight."

My main point, though, is why do I care how animals are treated?

Because it shows you're not heartless and you have respect for them? You must hate pets.


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thedo12
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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 06:53 PM Reply

mostly I eat whatever's convienent, if dog meat was more convinient id probaly eat that as well.

I really don't think dogs or cats are above eating.

Sajberhippien
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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 07:38 PM Reply

I'll not get heavily into the ethical discussion, but some bullshit is just to stupid to ignore.

At 10/21/09 05:10 PM, riemannSum wrote: - It's natural.

Appeal to nature, a fallacy. Nightshade and rape are also natural, and I hope you're not too fond of those.

- It provides the right amount of nutrition without having to go crazy overboard.

I call bullshit. While meat can certainly be used in a healthy fashion, rise in heart diseases interestingly enough seem to have a large corelation to rise in meat-eating, and people who eat meat are generally more prone to disease than vegetarians.

- Vegetarians are all retarded as far as I can tell.

Actually, vegetarians on an average had higher than avegare IQ as children.

You point out that vegans have lower obesity rates, that has nothing to do with the fact that they're vegans, but instead with the fact that they are more mentally aware of what they consume. Correlation =/= causation.

Corelation does not equal causation, but it's a goddamn good hint. And since vegetarians have A LOT lower obesity rates, higher life expectancy, and lower heart disease rates, it's quite safe to say there's a big chance that the choice of food is relevant. Obviously, you can live healthily on a vegetarian diet.


My main point, though, is why do I care how animals are treated?

Well, I can't argue with what would universally be considered a pure moral viewpoint and generally considered a quite pure form of evil.

At 10/21/09 05:10 PM, darkrchaos wrote: Thats not true, not eating meat is very unhealthy, you don't get the right proteins that u need. Most people that are vegetarians usually take vitamin pills to get what they should get from meat

BULL
SHIT
Protein is in no way a problem as a vegetarian, it's a non-issue. There's lots of protein in beans and peas, and surprisingly much in potatoes too. To name some of the main sources.
What COULD be a problem, and that vegetarians sometimes takes pills with, would be iron, folicid acid, and vitamin B12. If you drink milk, those are non-issues too.
At the same time, the over-consumption of meat in the western world seem to lead to a lot of health problems. As rises in meat consumption occur, rises in heart diseases seem to follow.


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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 07:47 PM Reply

At 10/21/09 06:56 PM, RightWingGamer wrote:
At 10/21/09 04:45 PM, EclecticEnnui wrote:
so a poster changed your entire lifestyle, why do i detect gullibility?

He never even...

i thought you were a meat-eater. you said so above.

If you thought he was a meat-eater, why did you relentlessly tear into him with jokes and sarcasm like a wolf to a sheep?

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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 07:51 PM Reply

Because chickens are tasty. And cat meat tastes stiff. It has to be cooked reaaaaaaaally well to taste good.


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EclecticEnnui
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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 08:01 PM Reply

At 10/21/09 06:56 PM, RightWingGamer wrote:
At 10/21/09 04:45 PM, EclecticEnnui wrote: A poster campaign was launched in Toronto's subway system, this year, regarding animal rights and meat eating.
so a poster changed your entire lifestyle, why do i detect gullibility?

I've actually been thinking about it before. I didn't just look at the posters and say, "Wow. I'm gonna be a vegetarian or a vegan the moment I get home."

The posters said, "Why love one but eat the other?"
because cows don't play fetch, beg for affection, bark when there's trouble, or help you in any other way besides milk and hamburger.

Can you prove all that, minus the milk and hamburger part? Other pets may not do those things, but you still care for them.

There'd be a dog or cat on the left and a chicken, pig, or cow on the right, along with interesting facts about the latter animals,
"facts" in the loosest form of the word.

Then prove them wrong.

like how they can be just as loving and intelligent as dogs and cats.
like i said, dogs and cats know that humans are friends, cows and pigs don't.

Again, prove it.

I'm a meat eater, but that's only because I was brought up that way. My parents never told me why we eat meat,
it's yummy.

I covered that in my last post.

about the abuse that happens on factory farms (shown on the site),
then how about reform?

etc. The factory farm abuse is probably nothing new to you guys,
like i said, reform the factories, but don't do something stupid.

It's a money issue. Also, the vast majority of the public is probably not aware of the abuse. If they did, they wouldn't buy the meat and the companies wouldn't make money. Once they know why people aren't buying meat, they'd hopefully change their ways. But again, if the public takes into account the moral issues of eating meat, then there'd be no point in killing and eating animals.

but what about comparing dogs and cats to these animals?
dogs and cats don't taste good.

You've tried them? Were they also chemically produced, and did you add spices and sauce to them, like other animals used for meat? Even so, it's just one opinion.

Environmental and health issues of eating meat aren't ignored, either. "Vegans have much lower rates of obesity, and on average weigh 10% less than non-vegetarians."
OMG! 10%! that stunning reveleation changes my entire way of thinking.

Read the reference and the rest of the issues covered under health.

So far, for me, being vegetarian or vegan doesn't sound like a bad idea.
i thought you were a meat-eater. you said so above.

Yes, I am, but that doesn't mean I'm never gonna change. I've been eating meat all my life, so to just stop like that isn't gonna happen. I might have to read kits and recipes to help change.

As a side note, how come you never responded to my argument about mandatory fat camps?


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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 08:34 PM Reply

I honestly wouldn't care about eating a cat or dog, so long as it tastes good and it's prepared nicely than I would still eat it. I love food, and I'm always willing to eat different types. I'm not a big meat eater though, I have red meat about once a month, but I'm just saying that at least I'm not a moral hypocrite.


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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 09:47 PM Reply

At 10/21/09 07:38 PM, Sajberhippien wrote: I'll not get heavily into the ethical discussion, but some bullshit is just to stupid to ignore.

*clap clap* Troll conquered.

But to be honest I really don't care about how animals are treated.

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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 10:52 PM Reply

At 10/21/09 07:38 PM, Sajberhippien wrote: Appeal to nature, a fallacy. Nightshade and rape are also natural, and I hope you're not too fond of those.

Nightshade and rape didn't promote the brain development that made man what he is.
Also, appealing to nature is not a fallacy. Humans have thousands of years of evolutionary programming that tells them what is good, and what is not. Meat tastes good, so therefore it is good. Bitter-tasting things are usually bad, since many poisons are bitter.
Everything is bad for you given enough of it. Sex is pleasurable but causes nasty chafing if done too rigorously. Bipedal movement is a huge advantage to humans, but running too much destroys your knees and joints. Breathing is bad for you if you do it too quickly and faint. The freaking sun, responsible for all life on earth, is bad for you if you get a sunburn or cancer.
The average person can consume huge quantities of meat (compared to early humans) and not develop health problems until well into his 50's. Anything you can do that takes 50 years to kill you isn't all that bad. I know you and electric weenie may not believe it, but there are more important things in life than worrying about being slim and whether or not you may develop some treatable disease late in life.

Eating meat is a staple of our (meaning normal people who aren't shit-poor) society and I'd fight savagely to preserve it in the face of self-righteous health nazis.

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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 11:15 PM Reply

why love one and hate the other? as humans we constantly do this to our own species, whats odd about preferring one species for companionship and another for food?


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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 11:37 PM Reply

The difference? Simple:

Dogs and cats are more entertaining, and they have multiple uses other than as food products (hunting, guard duty, pest control, lolcats, etc.)

Cows, pigs, and chickens? Not so much - but they are tasty.

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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 21st, 2009 @ 11:53 PM Reply

Well, I think we like have domesticated dogs and cats more than chickens, cows, and sheep (OP probably feels a connection with the sheep) because they are naturally easier to relate to.
For one point, they are both naturally meat eaters (like humans). Dogs would naturally be scavengers and eat a variety of animals, plants, and whatnot (omnivores) if we didn't feed them, they're also easily trained and many breeds are wonderful herders, they are still used for such acts and it's easy to see how they progressed from working animals to being more friendly and managed to stick around when people started progressing more towards more urban lifestyles. Cats natural diet consists of a large amount of meat which is why many people, especially in more rural areas keep cats as working animals to kill mice, again, they are affectionate like dogs and are an easily manageable size so they were smart enough to suck up to humans and moved with us into more urban environments also.
Cows are not that friendly, they are not manageable, they have giant piles of shit, would not be happy in an average suburbanites backyard, but.... they are large, have lots of meat on them, and produce milk for us to drink, so they are much better suited for serving us in a different capacity than our pets.
Sheep stink, they smell horrible when they get wet, they are very DUMB animals and have a well known herd mentality. But they are good for sheering for their wool, and make decent eating, so it makes sense to use their strengths to benefit us, just like we do with other animals.
Chickens are noisy, and they're birds, and they're a small size so they would be decent to care for in a more suburban environment, I have had neighbors who kept chickens in their backyard; until somebody's dog got into their backyard and killed the chickens, which brings me to my point that chickens have never really served a job for people (just like the other farm animals) other than laying eggs and being food.

Do you see how our pets have evolved over time as we have become more urbanized from working for/along side humans to accomplish certain tasks into pets. (just like horses, which the general western population also thinks are not for eating, but most people don't have space for horses so they don't have them) So you might see that there is a correlation between our modern pets and yester years working animals while animals that we keep for harvesting have mostly stayed that way.

Also... humans are predators, just like fucking lions, alligators, sharks, cheetahs, bears, and countless other fucking animals, go tell them not to eat meat.

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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 22nd, 2009 @ 12:49 AM Reply

Hate chickens, pigs or cows?
On the contrary; I love them. They're delicious.


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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 22nd, 2009 @ 01:00 AM Reply

At 10/22/09 12:49 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Hate chickens, pigs or cows?
On the contrary; I love them. They're delicious.

I love you.

I believe that just because some bleeding hearts think it's wrong, we shouldn't go against a few hundred thousand years of evolution.

I'm all for humane treatment, don't get me wrong, but we eat meat. It's just in our nature. Would you stop a tiger from eating a deer? Would you stop a hawk from eating a rabbit? It's evolution, everything fits together.

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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 22nd, 2009 @ 02:56 AM Reply

A lot of the arguement against meat on this thread has centered around culture. "You wouldn't eat ta dog so why a pig", Dog is food too. No in the West (for the most part) but dog and cat are common dishes in various asian countries. Want a horsebuger try Canada, and westerners are the only ones who don't have some delicacy based around insects. So the short answer is if it won't kill us, we'll eat it.

Also the argument about chemicals in beef is not an argument for vegetarianism, its more of an argument against our agricultural system. In Europe it is against the law to feed livestock hormones like we do in the states (I believe simalar laws exist in Japan), that is why they don't import our beef. And because it the beef here in france has a different taste (dare I say better.) But using hormones in American beef to argue for vegetarianism is like citing pesticides as a reason for carnivorism.

Now to the evolutionary arguments. Why is eating meat natural? Its those 12 teeth in the from of out mouths that come to a point (or edge) that is not found amoung herbavores. Teeth like those are found in carnivores and omnivores and are used for breaking down meat. We are evolved to eat meat. Also Cows, pigs and chickens are evolved food. We bread them to be the best food producers they can be. Much like we domesticated dogs, cats and horses over thousands of generations to fulfill various functions. The cows that lived 2000 years ago were very different from the cows today and modern livestock would not be able to surive on its own in the wild.

I used to be a kitchen manager for a vegan restaraunt, I never practiced the lifestyle but I would cook for it. And I can tell you that Vegan's do not necessarily have a healthier lifestyle. I saw many who looked very sickly because they were malnourished and some obese because they ate potato chips all day. Because our bodies are evolved to have meat as a part of its diet you need to be careful in how you go about living the vegie lifestyle. Research your bodies required nutrition and make sure that you are getting enough iron and the right kinds of protien through the vegitables you do eat to suplement the lose of meat.

darkrchaos
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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 22nd, 2009 @ 03:43 AM Reply

I don't know about you but i don't give a crap.I'll eat any meat if i have too chicken, cow, dog, even human haha. All i care about is that it taste good. I watched on TV about how we eat certain animals because there dumber then others. Which makes me ask a question, why do we eat pigs. On animal planet they say there one of the smartest animals, do we eat them because they don't look smart?


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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 22nd, 2009 @ 04:46 AM Reply

At 10/21/09 10:52 PM, adrshepard wrote:
At 10/21/09 07:38 PM, Sajberhippien wrote: Appeal to nature, a fallacy. Nightshade and rape are also natural, and I hope you're not too fond of those.
Nightshade and rape didn't promote the brain development that made man what he is.

That's not what he said though.

Also, appealing to nature is not a fallacy. Humans have thousands of years of evolutionary programming that tells them what is good, and what is not. Meat tastes good, so therefore it is good. Bitter-tasting things are usually bad, since many poisons are bitter.

Then why do people like bitter things? Alcohol tastes great, but it's not that good for you. Using "it's natural" as an argument in and of itself is usually a fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_n ature
And I'm not saying meat can't be good for the body, I'm saying "it's natural" isn't a valid argument. And rape might very well have increased our chance of survival, otherwise it probably wouldn't have been such a common part of our history. Much like meat.

And even though our meat-eating might have been a reason for the brains development (it's still something of an unproven hypothesis though, but it doesn't seem unreasonable so I won't disagree there) it's not the fact that it's meat, but rather that it has certain nutrients that is the reason. And all nutrients that can be found in meat, can be found elsewhere.

The average person can consume huge quantities of meat (compared to early humans) and not develop health problems until well into his 50's. Anything you can do that takes 50 years to kill you isn't all that bad. I know you and electric weenie may not believe it, but there are more important things in life than worrying about being slim and whether or not you may develop some treatable disease late in life.

Electric weenie? What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not some health freak if you think that, I just don't like when people say retarded things like "you have to eat meat. if you don't you'll get very unhealthy and have to take pills".
I wasn't saying you can't eat meat and be healthy. I was arguing against their claim that NOT eating meat has to be unhealthy, and saying that the eating meat in the quantities we do in the western world today does not seem to help our health.

Eating meat is a staple of our (meaning normal people who aren't shit-poor) society and I'd fight savagely to preserve it in the face of self-righteous health nazis.

In some societies it is, yes, and I haven't said anything about it. But do you mean that you would fight not to have leglislation against it, or do you mean that if people voluntarily become vegetarians you will go with a sign saying "EAT MORE MEAT! IT'S PART OF OUR SOCIETY SO WE HAVE TO DO IT!"? If the first, I can understand that though I wouldn't agree with you, but the latter just seem retarded.


You shouldn't believe that you have the right of free thinking, it's a threat to our democracy.

Med all respekt för alla rika svin jag känner - ni blir aldrig mina vänner.

ReiperX
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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 22nd, 2009 @ 05:00 AM Reply

First, as other's have said, animals all have certain talents. Cows are great at making milk and being eaten.

Horses and dogs are great work animals (or can be) as well as make great pets.

I love my cats, they are excellent pets. I wouldn't eat my cats. But guess what, I will eat a cow, a pig, or any other animal that I deem tasty.

Do I necessarily like how some of these animals are treated and killed? Not really, but if you don't eat them then they died for nothing. This doesn't mean that I don't like animals, myself I wouldn't make one suffer anymore (when I was a child this was much different).

Vegetarians can be healthy, or they can be extremely unhealthy, depending on if they know what they are doing or not (ensuring they get the basic amino acids that the human body can't produce for example). Meat eaters can be healthy or unhealthy depending on the choices that they make.

Personally, I don't like a lot of vegetables. Lettuce, tomatoes, and many others I just don't like. So guess what, I'm not going to eat food that I don't like. Now I do eat a good bit of fruits and other vegetables that I do like. Then again I know better than to overeat.

The problem with people being fat isn't that they are eating meat, it is that they are overeating. And I think some of this may come from the combination of larger portions served, some corporate marketing, many parents making their children clean their plates (bad idea in my opinion), and the changing of lifestyle. Mostly it's cultural rather.

I do wonder, does this study just show Americans or did it go world wide where meat eating diets vary greatly from in the US. For example, is there much difference between Japanese Vegetarians and Omnivores?

EclecticEnnui
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Response to Why love one but eat the other? Oct. 22nd, 2009 @ 02:22 PM Reply

At 10/22/09 01:34 AM, RightWingGamer wrote:
At 10/21/09 08:01 PM, EclecticEnnui wrote:
At 10/21/09 06:56 PM, RightWingGamer wrote:
At 10/21/09 04:45 PM, EclecticEnnui wrote: A poster campaign was launched in Toronto's subway system, this year, regarding animal rights and meat eating.
so a poster changed your entire lifestyle, why do i detect gullibility?
I've actually been thinking about it before. I didn't just look at the posters and say, "Wow. I'm gonna be a vegetarian or a vegan the moment I get home."
then why make an entire thread about the posters?

The thread isn't just about posters. It's about the website I linked to a few times, morals of eating meat, etc.

The posters said, "Why love one but eat the other?"
because cows don't play fetch, beg for affection, bark when there's trouble, or help you in any other way besides milk and hamburger.
Can you prove all that, minus the milk and hamburger part?
think! we've all read stories about dogs, horses, or sometimes even birds saving people's lives... but when have you ever heard of a cow, pig, or chicken doing it?

I've never read stories about horses or birds saving people. That wasn't the point, though. I was asking you to prove cows won't play with people, beg for affection, and notice when there's trouble. Provide some sources.

Other pets may not do those things, but you still care for them.
exactly why it's a bad idea to keep a fish or an ant farm as a pet.

What?

There'd be a dog or cat on the left and a chicken, pig, or cow on the right, along with interesting facts about the latter animals,
"facts" in the loosest form of the word.
Then prove them wrong.
*best general greivous impression* i plan to.

Again, what? I'm asking you to prove them wrong, like providing sources.

like how they can be just as loving and intelligent as dogs and cats.
like i said, dogs and cats know that humans are friends, cows and pigs don't.
Again, prove it.
see above.

That doesn't help me.

I'm a meat eater, but that's only because I was brought up that way. My parents never told me why we eat meat,
it's yummy.
I covered that in my last post.
quote?

"Well, do you eat chemically produced meat with sauce and spices? How often does a person, especially from first world countries, cut a piece from an animal, cook it, and eat it like that? If the meat you eat is delicious, it's probably not just meat."

about the abuse that happens on factory farms (shown on the site),
then how about reform?

etc. The factory farm abuse is probably nothing new to you guys,
like i said, reform the factories, but don't do something stupid.
It's a money issue.
i smell an attack on capitalism coming our way.

Just because I said it's a money issue? Hollywood and the fast food industry are generally about making money, for example. Google them and prove me wrong.

Also, the vast majority of the public is probably not aware of the abuse.
and your point...?

If they did, they wouldn't buy the meat and the companies wouldn't make money.
i'm aware, but i still love the taste of animal flesh.

Well, you don't represent everyone. Besides, don't you care that animals feel pain? Would you be OK if dogs and cats are raised for food by being thrown in overcrowded slaughterhouses?

Once they know why people aren't buying meat, they'd hopefully change their ways.
dude, people will keep buying meet regardless of everything. however, i can see them gravitating towards "organic" meat. i myself switched to organic milk and never went back.

Wait. When you say everything, you mean, for instance, they don't care about the conditions of the slaughterhouses, the moral issues, the health issues, and the environmental issues? They probably don't care because they don't know. Ignorance =/= bliss. If you can prove people (and I guess you mean everyone) will buy meat regardless of everything, I'll take an interest.

but what about comparing dogs and cats to these animals?
dogs and cats don't taste good.
You've tried them?
it's a joke, dude.

Well, it was subtle enough that it didn't sound like a joke.

and did you add spices and sauce to them,
actually, that's a good thing.

Yeah, it does amplify the taste, but refer back to the quote you asked for.

like other animals used for meat? Even so, it's just one opinion.
dude, we all know that a vast majority of america is against animal rights. it's become a joke.

Uh-huh... Prove it with sources.

So far, for me, being vegetarian or vegan doesn't sound like a bad idea.
i thought you were a meat-eater. you said so above.
Yes, I am, but that doesn't mean I'm never gonna change.
you talk about it like everyone's gonna "change".

From the FAQ:

"It's unrealistic to expect that everyone will stop eating animals overnight. As the demand for meat decreases, the number of animals bred will decrease. Farmers will stop breeding so many animals and will turn to other types of agriculture. When there are fewer of these animals, they will be able to live more natural lives."

so to just stop like that isn't gonna happen. I might have to read kits and recipes to help change.
no you're comparing it to stuff like smoking, drinking, and drugs. is there no end?!

I never mentioned those, although truth be told, smoking and obesity are the biggest causes of death in America.

As a side note, how come you never responded to my argument about mandatory fat camps?
the thread got boring, so i went here instead.

I wasn't referring to the thread, itself. I was referring to my rebuttal to your post.


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