No longer the poor person's outlet

[Trypno]

It seems that, due to very restrictive copyright laws, that DJing has gone from being the poor urban youth's music outlet, to the rich kids playground.
Gone are the days when a person could get a couple turntables and a mixer and create amazing pieces of music.
We are now living in an age where, if you want to be a DJ, you have to spend thousands of dollars on various pieces of equipment and computer programs in order to first produce your own piece, and then mix it.
Frankly, I can't afford all of it, hence why I'm able to find such joy in arranging premade loops with Garageband. Everyone on this site has such a problem with arranging tracks, saying that you absolutely must create your own loops in order to be a legitimate musician or to create legitimate music.
I've got news for y'all, not everyone is a piano player, some people are simply drummers, so making synth loops is a little more difficult for us. And not everyone can afford to splurge on huge computers and numerous programs and pieces of equipment, some of us just have to use what we are given.

So from now on, you keyboard purists need to stop acting like you rule newgrounds, you're just another musician in a long line of musicians.
Using premade loops basically equates to the way old school DJs used to party, by taking samples of popular pieces of music and arranging them through a mixer.
I know I'm not the only one out there getting a little steamed by the fact that people who can afford to spend on nice equipment and tons of programs and gadgets are running around Newgrounds putting people down for using premade loops.

You say I'm not a real musician for using premade loops? I say you're nothing more than a spoiled kid with an attitude who has forgotten his DJ roots of sampling like any underpaid/underprivileged DJ would do.

And sure, even I feel the limits of how I choose to make music, Garageband is a very basic program, but the fact is that is really all I have to work with because it not only came free with my computer, it's a full program so I can have as many tracks/racks as I want, I'm not limited to 4 racks like I am with the MULAB demo, and I'm not limited to just a microphone input like it seems to be with Audacity. With Garageband, if I can't find a useable loop, I try and make one. However Garageband seems to have a problem with VSTs so this is a bit difficult, and I've used every preset effect Garageband comes with.

The fact is, I enjoy creating a full piece of music with what I got. I'm able to at least get the FEELING of what I wanted to express out, and if I'm not fully satisfied, I break out my VSTs and go to work.

Let's discuss

[la-yinn]

Alright first thing's first. You confuse DJing with producing. We produce. DJs dj our productions, hence, placing songs (loops) beside eachother. Wecreate music, we do notplay it.

[/thread?]

[nubbinownz]

At 10/20/09 01:04 PM, Trypno wrote: It seems that, due to very restrictive copyright laws, that DJing has gone from being the poor urban youth's music outlet, to the rich kids playground.
Gone are the days when a person could get a couple turntables and a mixer and create amazing pieces of music.
We are now living in an age where, if you want to be a DJ, you have to spend thousands of dollars on various pieces of equipment and computer programs in order to first produce your own piece, and then mix it.
Frankly, I can't afford all of it, hence why I'm able to find such joy in arranging premade loops with Garageband. Everyone on this site has such a problem with arranging tracks, saying that you absolutely must create your own loops in order to be a legitimate musician or to create legitimate music.
I've got news for y'all, not everyone is a piano player, some people are simply drummers, so making synth loops is a little more difficult for us. And not everyone can afford to splurge on huge computers and numerous programs and pieces of equipment, some of us just have to use what we are given.

So from now on, you keyboard purists need to stop acting like you rule newgrounds, you're just another musician in a long line of musicians.
Using premade loops basically equates to the way old school DJs used to party, by taking samples of popular pieces of music and arranging them through a mixer.
I know I'm not the only one out there getting a little steamed by the fact that people who can afford to spend on nice equipment and tons of programs and gadgets are running around Newgrounds putting people down for using premade loops.

You say I'm not a real musician for using premade loops? I say you're nothing more than a spoiled kid with an attitude who has forgotten his DJ roots of sampling like any underpaid/underprivileged DJ would do.

And sure, even I feel the limits of how I choose to make music, Garageband is a very basic program, but the fact is that is really all I have to work with because it not only came free with my computer, it's a full program so I can have as many tracks/racks as I want, I'm not limited to 4 racks like I am with the MULAB demo, and I'm not limited to just a microphone input like it seems to be with Audacity. With Garageband, if I can't find a useable loop, I try and make one. However Garageband seems to have a problem with VSTs so this is a bit difficult, and I've used every preset effect Garageband comes with.

The fact is, I enjoy creating a full piece of music with what I got. I'm able to at least get the FEELING of what I wanted to express out, and if I'm not fully satisfied, I break out my VSTs and go to work.

Let's discuss

Ok first off ... piano players ?! Wtf does that have to do with anything. I can't play piano at all. But I've got upwards of 100 tracks all fully produced by me. And fun fact: They aren't just drums.

Secondly, I'm broke as fuck. I've been homeless twice. Get off your damned high horse, you're not going to justify your lack of motivation by trying to play the "Poor kid " card. It's not going to fly here.

THIRD! There's a difference between sampling and ripping off a premade loop. most of the people here on newgrounds ( Even those spoiled rich kids you seem so keen on addressing) are using samples. The difference is that they know how to cut the samples so as not to blatantly obvious.

I say you're not a real musician because you lack the experiance and desire to learn. Not because you use premade loops. Using premade loops is just the symptom for the condition.

There are nefarious ways to obtain software, and since you're already cool with stealing loops, you might as well go balls deep and get yourself a copy of fruity loops.

Your argument is flimsy and incredibly ill-informed.

Take the time to learn how to write a synth line. Spend some hours learning about mastering and sound design. Using loops that someone else made isn't talent.

Also, learn the difference between a DJ and a Producer.

[InGenius]

This isn't a loopers paradise. NG is about making music. Sampling is sampling. It involves skill. You have to cut your own loops, you have tot reinterpret the original music. You have to take time to add efects and mixdown on your own. Looping Apple loops, Acid loops, etc. together takes 5 minutes. I owned ACIDMax back in the late 90's, I could create a track out of those loops in minutes because there was no need to learn how to mix, they were all pretty well balanced to begin with. It was a matter of throwing down the A, B, or C fill of any loop in some form of order, like AABC, looping that for 16 bars, and bamola, you got a verse. This is why alot of the portal dislikes these loop programs, I can see that even though I personally don't go to the extreme of hating Garageband, ACID and/or MAGIX like some of the more "violently" opposed people on the AP.

That said, you do realize that FL costs about 99$ for the version that has the same functionality as MAGIX, which last time I checked was 59$. So for 40$ more, you get to use the computer keyboard like a midi keyboard thus precluding the need for all of this "expensive hardware" you're railing against. DJ'ing IS a rich kid's paradise now, but it isn't our fault it is. We didn't tell Numark to put every deck they produce at a 1000$ pricepoint. Then again, a Behringer CDJ unit is only 299$ which is CHEAP in the world of DJ'ing. So again, you've come at this totally wrong acting like everyone is too poor to create their own music let alone DJ other's music.

Frankly, your entire argument doesn't hold water. Production, DJ'ing, and Recording have never been cheaper, frankly. You could get an entire home studio together for very cheap: M-Audio keyboard for 89$, Behringer C-1U or CAD U37 USB mic for 69$, FL Fruity Edition 99$, Audacity free. So, for less than 260$ you've got a full recording and producing setup. Really, if you don't invest in yourself, who else is going to invest in you?

[Trypno]

OK OK, I understand now. For some reason I had it in my head that cutting up and changing up the premade loops in Garageband was still doing nothing more than using premade loops :S

I'd like to apologize for the outburst, it's just that I'm rather frustrated, and dumbly so, because I figured that I was still just doin' something wrong in the eyes of Newgrounders by using Garageband.

In actuality, I'd just like to ask that everyone stop ripping on us Garageband users, I've been using Garageband for years, cutting up the loops, arranging them, changing the effects, fiddling with VSTs, it takes alot of fucking work. Just because I use Garageband doesn't make me any less of a musician.

Again, I apologize to everyone, but hey this is the internet and sometimes you just have to get whatever is on your mind out.

To backup what I'm saying here, give my submissions a listen, you don't have to vote or anything, but all of my Newgrounds submissions were created with Garageband.

Again, I was rude, but frustrated.

[Trypno]

I've actually used quite a few programs since about 2003...ACID on my old PC, and I used to use Magix Music Maker on the Playstation 2, as well as EJAY Clubworld. Then I got a Mac and Garageband. I admit my argument holds no water at all because sometimes I'm an idiot

[Trypno]

I wish there was a way to delete these damn threads...

[Trypno]

Let's discuss

Cough* cough* PirateBay Cough* Cough*

Fl studio demo

those right there are a couple of free ways to get the software you need to create your own stuff.

on another note though, not being able to afford software is not a problem this day in age. So it all comes down to the fact that most people use loops because it is easier than accualy making something.

then again though after you do move away from using loops and get into creating your own stuff, people will then get on you about using VST like Nexus in which the sounds are premade or even using Vengeance esential club sounds or Vengeance ultimate bass. It is a never ending cycle

Thanks friend, that was really the whole point of my argument in the first place, I went off on a tangent for some reason though.

The point of my argument was really to address how people on Newgrounds get on you for using Garageband, it ain't right, it takes just as much skill to properly and fully put Garageband to work as it does any other program

[e991e]

Dude, seriously?..
I am broke, i don't have any equipment nor do i have a nice computer. But if you listen to my audio, NO LOOPS are EVER USED, I compose all of my music.
Using loops to make audio is EASY, doesn't take SKILL or TIME.

[JackRocker]

i just hope a mod locks this thread so people will stop beating on this guy over a simple mistake. he's said he's sorry and admitted to being wrong. lay off.

[nathanallenpinard]

Using loops is fine, but only in certain situations.

For instance, I recently created a jazz version of an xmas song. I played the piano, edited the roll a bit to voice correctly (I never was a jazz pianist), tracked the upright bass using Trilogy, and then cut/paste preset MIDI files into Superior Drummer 2.0 with the Jazz Kit, so I didn't do much writing on drums at all, because the MIDI files are exceptional and played with a real electric kit by a drummer pro. Even if the drums were a loop (and everything above being license to you and legal) it would be fine, because there is more original work in the piece other than that.

That's when it's ok.

What's not ok is:

If I had found a loop conisting of jazz piano chords, then another loop with a walking bass line, then a drum loop.

Btw, $1000 is nothing. Real high quality studio, and even DJ gear goes up even more.

If you use Garageband, you're fine. It's the baby version of Logic. Same audio engine, different UI. Google "free AU plugins" and you'll have quite an arsenal.

The only time money gets up there, is when you are looking for ultimate realism, which is usually orchestral samples. You cannot obtain a quality orchestral sound with low quality samples/VIs, no matter how hard you try.

[Trypno]

The only time money gets up there, is when you are looking for ultimate realism, which is usually orchestral samples. You cannot obtain a quality orchestral sound with low quality samples/VIs, no matter how hard you try.

Yeah so I've seen lol, I think my eyes were bigger than my head, and when I started looking into VSTs and stuff and finding the sheer volume of VSTs that were available, as well as recording programs, and then finding out that most programs are demos, I guess I just got overly frustrated and blew up.

Not to mention just coming home from Graveyard shift and not having slept yet...

[joshhunsaker]

Here's how to solve your problem:

Cheap midi controller from craigslist (think 61-key yamaha psr or something for $40) + cheap midi interface (ebay) + Reaper (DAW) + free vsts = cheapest MIDI based-studio you can swing.

Then go ahead and do yourself a massive favor and dink around on the piano until you get the hang of inputting simple melodies/patters/notes/rhythms etc and try your hand at synthesis. Buy a second-hand copy of an old version of Reason and then your on your way. Way easy, way cheap, way more fun than splicing/dicing loops. Seriously, it is.

[Trypno]

At 10/20/09 04:25 PM, joshhunsaker wrote: Here's how to solve your problem:

Cheap midi controller from craigslist (think 61-key yamaha psr or something for $40) + cheap midi interface (ebay) + Reaper (DAW) + free vsts = cheapest MIDI based-studio you can swing.

Then go ahead and do yourself a massive favor and dink around on the piano until you get the hang of inputting simple melodies/patters/notes/rhythms etc and try your hand at synthesis. Buy a second-hand copy of an old version of Reason and then your on your way. Way easy, way cheap, way more fun than splicing/dicing loops. Seriously, it is.

Thanks friend, it definitely is funner jammin' out on actual equipment, but cost being the problem. I think in the end, what I'm essentially looking for is equipment I can jam on while recording. Plus if anybody has any tips on software that plays back the music that's already laid down while allowing you to jam out and record at the same time, I'm all ears.

[Bjra]

solution for the starving producer

1) buy cheap mic, quality doesn't matter as long as it(alternatively plug cheap headphones lyin around house into microphone port)

2) open windows recorder

3) pull down pants and blow went fart onto recording device

4) upload to newgrounds

5)

6) profit

[HardcoreBrigade]

well Technically he is right Piratebat.net does not exist but it takes you to piratebay.org.

[amaterasu]

At 10/20/09 02:15 PM, Trypno wrote: In actuality, I'd just like to ask that everyone stop ripping on us Garageband users, I've been using Garageband for years, cutting up the loops, arranging them, changing the effects, fiddling with VSTs, it takes alot of fucking work. Just because I use Garageband doesn't make me any less of a musician.

Your first mistake is even mentioning what it's made with. There's no reason to say so honestly. It's about how the end product sounds, so how you got there is nobody's business but yours. I bet if you stopped putting "created with garageband" in the summary for your tracks you would get a little more respect.

[Rig]

cough cough everyone who promoted piracy in this thread has been banned cough cough actually it was only one guy cough cough so yeah cough

Plz don't do that, kthx

[TMM43]

At 10/20/09 09:24 PM, Rig wrote:
Plz don't do that, kthx

LOCK IT DOWN RIG!

[Trypno]

At 10/20/09 05:04 PM, Bjra wrote: solution for the starving producer

1) buy cheap mic, quality doesn't matter as long as it(alternatively plug cheap headphones lyin around house into microphone port)

2) open windows recorder

3) pull down pants and blow went fart onto recording device

4) upload to newgrounds

5)

6) profit

Now this idea I like, I think we should make a collab o.O

[Trypno]

Your first mistake is even mentioning what it's made with. There's no reason to say so honestly. It's about how the end product sounds, so how you got there is nobody's business but yours. I bet if you stopped putting "created with garageband" in the summary for your tracks you would get a little more respect.

I only did that today, after making a complete ass of myself with this thread :S

[EmperorCharlemagne]

Congrats mah boi, you gave me a good laugh.

You're right, my piano training has left me out of touch with the poor urban youth of today's DJs. Sorry.

[Bjra]

At 10/20/09 10:50 PM, Trypno wrote: Now this idea I like, I think we should make a collab o.O

can I haz ur fart sample?

fart noises have been a staple of pro music for years. what do you think the saw waveform was inspired by, and its virtually everywhere in musacz!

[EmperorCharlemagne]

On a serious note, I don't care what program you use, but I do care if it sounds good or not.

I think most people think the same way around here.

[nathanallenpinard]

There's no reason to say so honestly. It's about how the end product sounds, so how you got there is nobody's business but yours.

Actually there is. Audio mods prefer a list of how they made it, so it's more proof they didn't rip it off or make it with loops. Not to mention OTHER producers might want to know.

[joshhunsaker]

At 10/20/09 09:30 PM, TMM43 wrote:

At 10/20/09 09:24 PM, Rig wrote:
Plz don't do that, kthx

LOCK IT DOWN RIG!

LOL. Mod power. hehe

[amaterasu]

At 10/21/09 01:45 AM, nathanallenpinard wrote:

There's no reason to say so honestly. It's about how the end product sounds, so how you got there is nobody's business but yours.

Actually there is. Audio mods prefer a list of how they made it, so it's more proof they didn't rip it off or make it with loops. Not to mention OTHER producers might want to know.

If the mods are suspicious and ask for a summary of how you made the song, by all means provide it. OTHER producers can ask you if they really want to know, provided you want to reveal it. You know the saying a magician never reveals his tricks? That applies to music.

[JackRocker]

At 10/20/09 09:24 PM, Rig wrote: cough cough everyone who promoted piracy in this thread has been banned cough cough actually it was only one guy cough cough so yeah cough

Plz don't do that, kthx

ooooooohhhhhhhhh, someone's been pwned. piracy suuuuuuuccckssss.

[pr0ded]

At 10/20/09 01:04 PM, Trypno wrote: It seems that, due to very restrictive copyright laws, that DJing has gone from being the poor urban youth's music outlet, to the rich kids playground.

kind of like Elvis and blues music

[HardcoreBrigade]

At 10/21/09 10:47 AM, JackRocker wrote:

At 10/20/09 09:24 PM, Rig wrote: cough cough everyone who promoted piracy in this thread has been banned cough cough actually it was only one guy cough cough so yeah cough

Plz don't do that, kthx

ooooooohhhhhhhhh, someone's been pwned. piracy suuuuuuuccckssss.

lol ur music sucks. hahahaha PWND