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At 10/12/09 05:38 PM, cantstophammertime wrote: if your brain is destroyed you have no inner view any more
i think if you die your life is like before your birth
so you are (living) in non-existence

beeing an atheist is hard believe me but i just dont think there are any gods n stuff

im afraid of death (or better of non-existence)

Look man I have been going through the same logical process. Yes, it is really F-ing depressing but what can we do about it? Just live life to the fullest and dont let anything get in the way of your dreams. Maintain a level of respect and honesty so at least you will have some dignity with yourself. Don't fall victim to your fears. I too am scared of death because of the same exact reason but there's not much I can do but live life how I want to.

Hope I helped a little. Stay up my friend

At 10/12/09 07:15 PM, xHaLLuCiN8x wrote: you ever do it? any1 ever do it?

no, but i can obtain it, and i've already got ayahuasca ingredients, just need to prepare it

or i/you can purchase bulk mimosa rootbark off the internet and extract it

i believe that you will fade away. you will dream for a few seconds, and those few seconds is what your soul,... as it leaves your body... that one dream is what your soul will know...

At 10/12/09 06:50 PM, OddlyPoetic wrote: Yes the wording was Akward, i'm sick so fucking deal with it.

You present this as if it's a massive problem for me. Which it's not. I'm not one to care.

Yes it does. Can you even say why it was stupid? No? Then you're trolling and we don't need you. We don't need arrogant prick trolls who shoot down every opinion that isn't theirs without so much as a reason why.

You've avoided giving us a reason why you think its stupid twice. That leads me to believe that you can't even explain why.

I have to write down the aspects of the said post I have problems with in order to prove I'm able to recognize nonsense? You're even worse than the other user. Um.. sure I'm arrogant. I'm proud of that. Sounds like some feeling were hurt champ. I guess I'll note a couple reasons it's stupid right now. First of all... our particles scattered... randomly. What limits apply? This doesn't happen. The particles "intervene" (wouldn't be moving in the first place)... "with"(?) each other (misuse of the word) FOREVER (perpetual motion? - impossible) and will never disappear (Now this could be true.. perhaps converted to different forms of matter... but not disappear). Then I read "Eventually, the same particles that made up your mind will regenerate once again, as long as time is infinite." The mind by definition isn't physical. And nothing after death can restore consciousness in any sense (After a decent amount of time has passed). And regenerate AGAIN? (As if it's happened before). Then he goes on to hint at what? Immortality? Overall just a poor attempt at whatever the hell it was. It doesn't make sense.

At 10/12/09 05:41 PM, Canas wrote: Get back to me on this one

really soon

At the risk of not contributing a decent amount to the discussion at hand, I'd like to say that this post sums up my views, however cold, on afterlife quite perfectly. And it's done in less than ten words. Powerful statements tend to be like that. This isn't for the sake of balance either, as I saw a similar post earlier in response to another post that referenced Richard Dawkins. That's absolutely fine as far as we pretend to tolerate each other of course.

Seriously, Canas' post is one I wish I had been able to think of when viewing a thread on something that strongly involves an inevitable religion vs. atheism argument. I suppose I'm a victim of the times as much as everyone else, at which point this statement above is made that little more relevant, yes?

I believe so, haha.

At 10/12/09 07:22 PM, PabMo wrote:

At 10/12/09 06:50 PM, OddlyPoetic wrote: Yes the wording was Akward, i'm sick so fucking deal with it.

You present this as if it's a massive problem for me. Which it's not. I'm not one to care.

Yes it does. Can you even say why it was stupid? No? Then you're trolling and we don't need you. We don't need arrogant prick trolls who shoot down every opinion that isn't theirs without so much as a reason why.

You've avoided giving us a reason why you think its stupid twice. That leads me to believe that you can't even explain why.

I have to write down the aspects of the said post I have problems with in order to prove I'm able to recognize nonsense? You're even worse than the other user. Um.. sure I'm arrogant. I'm proud of that. Sounds like some feeling were hurt champ. I guess I'll note a couple reasons it's stupid right now. First of all... our particles scattered... randomly. What limits apply? This doesn't happen. The particles "intervene" (wouldn't be moving in the first place)... "with"(?) each other (misuse of the word) FOREVER (perpetual motion? - impossible) and will never disappear (Now this could be true.. perhaps converted to different forms of matter... but not disappear). Then I read "Eventually, the same particles that made up your mind will regenerate once again, as long as time is infinite." The mind by definition isn't physical. And nothing after death can restore consciousness in any sense (After a decent amount of time has passed). And regenerate AGAIN? (As if it's happened before). Then he goes on to hint at what? Immortality? Overall just a poor attempt at whatever the hell it was. It doesn't make sense.

"The mind by definition isn't physical" is a biased statement, considering the mind is an array of atoms reacting with another. Of course the universe isn't eternal, but so close to it that our atoms could be reassembled multiple times creating multiple "lives" (although this would not be true if the big crunch theory were true).

You also made a false statement, when you said I was implying perpetual motion. The matter in our minds can be acted upon by other matter, giving it energy. Energy can not be created or destroyed, only lost to another object which will in turn give the same energy back.

Plus the fact that you mocked my grammatical "errors" is further indication to me that you're just another cynical troll on the forums.

At 10/12/09 07:24 PM, Scarab wrote: This isn't for the sake of balance either, as I saw a similar post earlier in response to another post that referenced Richard Dawkins.

Wait.. You did or did not agree with the original post where I referenced Richard Dawkins?

once you die you die, no afterlife, no heaven or hell, no reincarnation, you just die and thats it, end of the road, but you cant turn around

At 10/12/09 07:32 PM, wtflolnoob wrote: "The mind by definition isn't physical" is a biased statement, considering the mind is an array of atoms reacting with another. Of course the universe isn't eternal, but so close to it that our atoms could be reassembled multiple times creating multiple "lives"

It's not biased it's factual. The "mind" refers to the consciousness, not the brain. I never said the universe wasn't eternal. I believe it is.

You also made a false statement, when you said I was implying perpetual motion. The matter in our minds can be acted upon by other matter, giving it energy. Energy can not be created or destroyed, only lost to another object which will in turn give the same energy back.

The elements found in our being without life would not react with each other generating energy after the body has decomposed. Energy can be created. You're thinking of matter.

Plus the fact that you mocked my grammatical "errors" is further indication to me that you're just another cynical troll on the forums.

OK

At 10/12/09 07:43 PM, PabMo wrote:

At 10/12/09 07:32 PM, wtflolnoob wrote: "The mind by definition isn't physical" is a biased statement, considering the mind is an array of atoms reacting with another. Of course the universe isn't eternal, but so close to it that our atoms could be reassembled multiple times creating multiple "lives"

It's not biased it's factual. The "mind" refers to the consciousness, not the brain. I never said the universe wasn't eternal. I believe it is.

You also made a false statement, when you said I was implying perpetual motion. The matter in our minds can be acted upon by other matter, giving it energy. Energy can not be created or destroyed, only lost to another object which will in turn give the same energy back.

The elements found in our being without life would not react with each other generating energy after the body has decomposed. Energy can be created. You're thinking of matter.

Plus the fact that you mocked my grammatical "errors" is further indication to me that you're just another cynical troll on the forums.

OK

Although this is a bit of a heated argument, you're helping me realize some of my scientific flaws. I'm only fourteen, so it can be expected that I'm not a physics major.

Either way, the energy throughout the universe is enough to reassemble our bodies into the same thing multiple times, spacing billions of trillions of years in between. Even a few times at least, maybe not to infinity.

Even though I resent your cynicallity, I still understand the scientific viewpoint you're coming from.

At 10/12/09 07:33 PM, PabMo wrote: Wait.. You did or did not agree with the original post where I referenced Richard Dawkins?

Without being completely familiar with Richard Dawkins' work, I'm going to say "neither" in a stuck-up, middle-class voice. To me, discussion of a possible afterlife and the inevitable mention of religion is more than a two-sided dice. Hell, it's not even a three-sided dice if you throw agnosticism into it. The range of thought on life after death is more comparable to the Numberwang dice as long as we're keeping this metaphor up.

What drew me to Canas' quote? I have no idea whether someone or something is waiting for me after death, and dwelling on what could have been is unimportant in this argument. I can live my life how I want, which is to say something relatively self-destructive. If religious thinking is going to help someone through life, then I'm thinking why not let them. I live in the same house as a fairly devoted Christian. Does that one little fact distort my view of them? For the love of BLANK, I certainly hope not, or else I'm a bigger bastard than expected. I take some things out of Christianity myself. It's inevitable, I'm pretty multicultural, and the thinking includes Christianity.

As I've explained time and time again, I maintain that the way Christianity is displayed today is an object of capitalism, hence the disturbing amount of backlash at times. Part of it is to do with the way our minds are now thinking that nothing means nothing, but we do love the media don't we? I can't remember the last time a community church was involved in an article and how it was improving the lives of those in its community. That's not interesting though, is it? I've always wanted to read about specific institutions that are completely backwards.

I don't know if there's something in the sky. I brush my hand around in the air sometimes to see if I strike anything.

At 10/12/09 07:19 PM, pr0ded wrote: or i/you can purchase bulk mimosa rootbark off the internet and extract it

i kno a site that you can buy the frog that produces 5meo-dmt.

At 10/12/09 07:59 PM, wtflolnoob wrote: Either way, the energy throughout the universe is enough to reassemble our bodies into the same thing multiple times, spacing billions of trillions of years in between. Even a few times at least, maybe not to infinity.

I hate to be the one that has to break this to you. But there is absolutely no chance of that happening. I'm not sure where this idea came from... but it's physically impossible. It can't even stand as a remotely plausible theory. Believe me. Just live in the moment and make the most of this short time you have. Rather than investing in the belief you'll ever regain consciousness after death.

Even though I resent your cynicallity, I still understand the scientific viewpoint you're coming from.

That's right, it's the viewpoint of science and logic.

At 10/12/09 08:07 PM, xHaLLuCiN8x wrote:

At 10/12/09 07:19 PM, pr0ded wrote: or i/you can purchase bulk mimosa rootbark off the internet and extract it

i kno a site that you can buy the frog that produces 5meo-dmt.

yea it also has 5-HO-DMT, i've tried snorting Yopo before, but i prepared it wrong and got nothing,

At 10/12/09 08:01 PM, Scarab wrote: A lot.

I recommend his book, "The God Delusion". If you ever have a chance to read it, tell me what you think.

I hate discussions like this only for the simple reason that it's too depressing. I think that thinking about stuff like this just isn't good for you (unless you're the type of person who doesn't care about this sort of stuff). The scariest part about this is the fact that the theory of nonexistence makes perfect sense. I hope that there is more involved than what we human beings are capable of understanding.

Related article from Creepypasta (Warning: Depressing)

At 10/12/09 08:28 PM, PabMo wrote:

At 10/12/09 08:01 PM, Scarab wrote: A lot.

I recommend his book, "The God Delusion". If you ever have a chance to read it, tell me what you think.

i like this response to it
http://www.chem.yale.edu/~tully/nashenvi /Dawkins.html

the materialist delusion

I'll be back tomorrow. I don't find that article depressing. To be honest. For some reason.

At 10/12/09 08:38 PM, pr0ded wrote: i like this response to it

I'll read it later. But thanks. Before I go to bed... is it for or against?

To answer the OP's question, there IS life after death. Your body will still decay in the earth of course, but your soul will live on in Heaven for eternity (or Hell if you are not Christian). Many have scoffed at this simple truth, yet Jesus preached it when He walked the earth. It is recorded in the Bible. Some people have even been revived after clinical death and speak of what they saw afterwards. Many atheists try to dismiss this as hallucinations due to a lack of oxygen in the brain and whatnot, but what they cannot explain is the magnificent consistency from report to report amongst people who never knew each other. Here is a video to describe what I mean,

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSgH2AHkf kw

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9775Sbfpp Zs&feature=related

Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y33jk5uY xA&feature=related

Part 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkJlKC9UI Hc&feature=related

Part 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPD2op6R4 Cc&feature=related

Part 6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P63hO3eq_
9U&feature=related

Part 7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-FUE5o3I R8&feature=related

Part 8:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVXWSjBvp 78&feature=related

Part 9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkHiDXEYh nI&feature=related

I know this is a lot of stuff, but trust me you will be hooked after the first part or two. After that, you will WANT to watch them all. I know I did.

I'll read it later. But thanks. Before I go to bed... is it for or against?

when i said 'materialist delusion' you should have knew
http://www.integralscience.org/questioni ng.html

At 10/12/09 08:45 PM, pr0ded wrote: when i said 'materialist delusion' you should have knew

I should have known? I apologize. How foolish. Please forgive me.

no
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism #Criticism_and_alternatives

and im not a christian

Nothing ever ends it just is converted into something else. Whether you keep a state or mind or not I don't know but I hope that there is stuff after life.

At 10/12/09 05:45 PM, PabMo wrote: There's no afterlife. Listen to Richard Dawkins. He knows best. We share the same views.
We're all afraid of death. That's where religion came from in the first place.

Go see Expelled. Richard Dawkins stated that there is a very probable chance that there was supernatural power at one time, let alone now. And its also easy to share a view with the world's smartest atheist.

My contribution to this topic is recommending the novel What Dreams May Come. It is a work of science fiction but Richard Matheson is great at creating a scientific and realistic afterlife. He as an extensive bibliography and did a lot of research about death and near-death experience before writing the book. The main focus is that existence is a state of mind, not a physical force.

It takes the title from Hamlet's soliloquy. "For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come. When we have shuffled off this mortal coil."

"Does a man's existence change in any way when he removes his overcoat? Neither does it change when death removes the overcoat of his body."

No one knows, or ever will. Its not like you die and 5 days later you say "OMFG! ITS SOOO COOL BEING DEAD"
Once you die you die.

Existence and nonexistence are sides of a scale.
I think we do not exist eternally nor do we cease existing eternally.

A note so wise man once told me

"If it happens, it happens"

At 10/12/09 05:38 PM, cantstophammertime wrote: so you are (living) in non-existence

How can you live in non-existence when there's no subconscious thought to define where you are?

beeing an atheist is hard believe me but i just dont think there are any gods n stuff

Your own fault, having a religion is a wonderful feeling.

im afraid of death (or better of non-existence)

Lol, what's it to you if you're dead and have no idea of it? I not afraid of death, I'm actually curious.