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certainly providing information on the substances should be enough of a deterrent, considering the fact that many are highly addictive as well as physically damaging.

Dr. (lol) Dennis Mckenna said it best, the government gives out misinformation on cannabis, the young user realizes that and wonders if they're totally lying about harder drugs, kind of like gateway drug theory caused by the government
somewhere in here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAs-0I9LU 88&fmt=18

even though they exclude drugs such as tobacco and alcohol, or anaesthetics/painkillers

anyone that might spark a person interest in illegal drugs

At 10/12/09 04:57 PM, Diederick wrote: I understand your points, but there is a perfectly fine reason why most drugs are illegal: because they're bad for you. This is why you can't just get a random medicine at the apothecary and why bridges have railings: because you could harm yourself. Wherever possible, the government tries (like it should) to protect you, in a reasonable way.

They put railings on bridges to stop accidental deaths, people jump over the railings all the time to harm themselves.

Drugs are addictive and harmful to your body. People should be discouraged to use drugs, making them illegal is one way of doing that; one could also think of taking away certain (free) health-care benefits or place high taxes on the substances.

Pharmaceutical drugs are among the top causes of death in drug related deaths, and are some of the most addictive drugs out there. Benzodiazepine (Valium is one) being one of the most deadly. But these are legal. The 'Florida's annual report on Drugs Identified in Deceased Persons' reported that cannibinoids (found in cannibis, and illegal) was the cause of 0 deaths in 2007, but Methadone (legal prescription drug) was the cause of 785 deaths.

So the legal drugs seem to kill more than illegal drugs, now is that because they are more dangerous, or more readily available? Considering you can walk into a doctors office and ask for some Percocet (Oxycodone killed 705 in Florida) as opposed to searching the streets for some heroin (killed 93 in Florida). Fentanyl is 10 times more potent than heroin and legal, and killed more people.

Pharmaceutical drugs are among the top causes of death in drug related deaths, and are some of the most addictive drugs out there. Benzodiazepine (Valium is one) being one of the most deadly. But these are legal. The 'Florida's annual report on Drugs Identified in Deceased Persons' reported that cannibinoids (found in cannibis, and illegal) was the cause of 0 deaths in 2007, but Methadone (legal prescription drug) was the cause of 785 deaths.

So the legal drugs seem to kill more than illegal drugs, now is that because they are more dangerous, or more readily available? Considering you can walk into a doctors office and ask for some Percocet (Oxycodone killed 705 in Florida) as opposed to searching the streets for some heroin (killed 93 in Florida). Fentanyl is 10 times more potent than heroin and legal, and killed more people.

Simple: Those drugs actually help people. They NEED them. There is not one disease on the PLANET that cocaine can cure. Also, look up how many people died of OD/heart attack brought on by drug use that stresses the heart/ were so high they did something that killed themselves.

well it does have some
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine#Coc aine_as_a_local_anesthetic

and on the first i talked about distinguishing plant from compound
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca_tea#Me dicinal_Use

and with crohn's disease they NEED something that destroys their liver, instead of something herbal and thus can't be patented
http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=
cannabis+crohn%27s+disease&btnG=Google+S earch&meta=&aq=f&oq=cannabis+crohn%27s+d iseas&fp=75976bc55ef4b369
http://www.michellerainey.com/crohns.php

epic win

and i forgot, curing a disease isn't a requirement, see DXM

At 10/12/09 10:45 PM, pr0ded wrote: and with crohn's disease they NEED something that destroys their liver, instead of something herbal and thus can't be patented
http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=
cannabis+crohn%27s+disease&btnG=Google+S earch&meta=&aq=f&oq=cannabis+crohn%27s+d iseas&fp=75976bc55ef4b369
http://www.michellerainey.com/crohns.php

You can destroy a liver in many ways. Crohn's disease is an exception, not the rule. Also, I was talking about stuff like Cocaine, heroin, acid, etc. I'm all for medical Cannabis.

Also, the plants of drugs don't count. I'm talking about the drug itself. Coco leaves are also used in Coca-Cola. Cocaine itself is what causes damage.

well if you look above it does have medical use
so does heroin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Medi cal_use

LSD in psychiatry, creativity, any of those lsd related links

coca in the cola is 'decocainized'
not sure where the cocaine goes, maybe for medical use

and medical use doesn't mean 'curing' or having to

Simple: Those drugs actually help people. They NEED them

and you should apply those to recreational drugs, the ones that do nothing for you, unlike the psychedelics

Fact: Drugs cause mental issues,ignorance,weight gain,lack of proper speech,and no desire to have a goal.
Obviously the OP is ghetto never in my dreams would I want the world to be ghetto.Two years ago my school was in the ghetto.I doubt I want to relive it.

At 10/12/09 10:04 PM, TheStonePilot wrote: Simple: Those drugs actually help people. They NEED them. There is not one disease on the PLANET that cocaine can cure. Also, look up how many people died of OD/heart attack brought on by drug use that stresses the heart/ were so high they did something that killed themselves.

Which disease is cured by Oxycodone? None, it's a kick ass, short term pain reliever, so is marijuana, but marijuana acts faster (personal experience taught me that). But more people die from Oxycodone than marijuana.
And going by the charts in that link I gave earlier, suicide by illegal drugs were less than suicide by prescription drugs (cocaine 11%, heroin 3%, Propoxyphene 23%, diazapam 21%, oxycodone 16%).

On a side note, a funny drug is bupropion. It was introduced as an anti-depressant. Then it was found that patients weren't so inclined to smoke while on bupropion, so it was later packaged and sold as Zyban, and GlaxoSmithKline made a killing.

People who are in favour of keeping drugs illegal are funny (not to mention complete imbeciles), because they fail to notice that drug dealers, people who according to them are the MOST HORRIBLE VILE people in the world, actually WANT drugs to remian illegal.

At 10/13/09 01:46 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: People who are in favour of keeping drugs illegal are funny (not to mention complete imbeciles), because they fail to notice that drug dealers, people who according to them are the MOST HORRIBLE VILE people in the world, actually WANT drugs to remian illegal.

Listen when your parents drop you off to florida to go to : stewart NASA's school you will know what I mean there is people running with lighters and selling crack next door called the four-way people break in fights and blood is always drawn.Life was a struggle there and I went through hell,ghetto increases drugs, and im not racist hispanics do it and whites and everyone!What needs to happen is instead of getting people tickets they need to patrol the streets, if it was leagal im teling you now. All heck broke lose five years later and i remember this it makes me sick.

At 10/13/09 01:54 AM, dizzenbee wrote: What needs to happen is instead of getting people tickets they need to patrol the streets, if it was leagal im teling you now. All heck broke lose five years later and i remember this it makes me sick.

What is this I don't even

LSD in psychiatry

somelinks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic s,_dissociatives_and_deliriants#Hallucin ogens_after_World_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic _psychotherapy#In_alcoholism

basically they review their alcoholism and stop drinking

kind of like ibogaine in opiate addiction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#Th erapeutic_uses

sure, especially if you overdose and have high blood pressure, probably caused from food, and if you use it medically, like Freud, who exceeded life expectancy

its a post, and you don't huff cocaine, it isn't a gas or aerosol, you insufflate it, smoke it etc

Of course drugs should be legal, but the government want to control us

I do not claim to be an expert. I know few facts about the chemical effects, and long-term repercussions of drugs. But I do know that I love cannabis. Cannabis, as all drugs, is a double edged sword. As much as I enjoy partaking in it, I notice that with chronic (heh) use, several of my mental faculties begin to diminsh. Social skills, and motivation in particular. Nothing makes me more happy than to kick back with friends and burn. Moderation must be taken into consideration, however as with all things. I have little experience with other drugs, and find arguments based on the viewpoints and words of others regurgitated in a vile, new and hateful manner seen here several times to be both rude and ignorant. One can not truly understand something until that something has been experienced on a personal level. A person can demonize anything with the right statistics and sentences. Hell, I could write a paper on how not we but penguins are responsible for global warming by melting the ice with their warm fluffy bodies. There is so much derision, and so much animosity between drug users, and non users that I don't think an agreement can ever be reached.

< / end rambling >

Completely didn't read anything you guys are talking about on this page, just replying to what was said on the last page .

I believe who ever quoted me saying that you have flashbacks with shrooms : For one, these are for hardcore druggies (like, 5 times a day kind of hardcore) and I believe you're referring to Acid. Acid will fuck you up, but shrooms will just make everything seem more vibrant.

To the other guy - I've never had a bad experience with shrooms (Then again, I'm not a constant user, a once-twice a month with those). And I apologize on the technicality error, slipped my mind.

won't get much from taking shrooms 5 times a day, as you build a cross/tolerance for tryptamines

acid won't fuck you up, its a subjective experience
the effects are here
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_
effects.shtml

mushrooms
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/m ushrooms_effects.shtml

It's not the government's job to protect people from their own choices.

For those who are commenting and saying that drugs you can get perscribed are worse then some illegal drugs your totally right, then again in order for those drugs to become harmful you must take large doses of them frequently. They can also become harmful when taken with alcohol which can result in complete liver failure which can indeed lead to death. Also there more readly avalible.

Really i dont even know why i even bother with topics like these. I can't force people to change opinions that they would defend to the death.

Honestly they should just legalize them, cuts down on crime since most crimincal organizations are funded by... you guessed it: Drug money.

You can't prevent people from making dangerous or potentially lethal choices, and banning the drugs just makes them have to acquire them from even more dangerous sources; At inflated prices, which goes right into the local crimelord's pocket.

At 10/17/09 01:58 AM, JamesRaynor wrote: Honestly they should just legalize them, cuts down on crime since most crimincal organizations are funded by... you guessed it: Drug money.

You can't prevent people from making dangerous or potentially lethal choices, and banning the drugs just makes them have to acquire them from even more dangerous sources; At inflated prices, which goes right into the local crimelord's pocket.

Haw wrong. Just because its legilized doesnt mean the drug lords out there wont just lower the prices a tad to make people go to them over the more expensive store bought drugs, plus big brother wouldnt have to know.

Also another thing i dont know about you but i highly doubt its a good idea that every person can inject them selves with heroine or do crack without a chance of them being punished, especially when there killing themselves. I mean if you wanna go get high go do that just remember that if you get fucked up for the rest of your life its your fault and always will be your fault.

Oh and one more thing, I dont wanna hear any more of this "Hey alchohols the same as drugs!" because its not. For one it takes multiple beers to get buzzed plus if you do happen do get your liver damaged it can heal or you can even get a operation to replace it. I have yet to hear of a way that the brain can heal from the sorta damage you can deal to it with some drugs.

Sadly, some people need to tell others how to live.

It has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with control. Like 95% of the laws on the books.

At 10/17/09 11:28 AM, Freedomblades wrote: Oh and one more thing, I dont wanna hear any more of this "Hey alchohols the same as drugs!" because its not. For one it takes multiple beers to get buzzed plus if you do happen do get your liver

except alcohol doesn't equal beer, see 151 rum or whatever

which makes me want to reply to this

At 10/14/09 08:22 PM, Freedomblades wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dose-respon se_relationship

there are drugs where its intended effect comes close to the median lethal dose

well some have been abandoned in favour of newer, safer drugs

At 10/17/09 11:28 AM, Freedomblades wrote: Oh and one more thing, I dont wanna hear any more of this "Hey alchohols the same as drugs!" because its not. For one it takes multiple beers to get buzzed plus if you do happen do get your liver damaged it can heal or you can even get a operation to replace it. I have yet to hear of a way that the brain can heal from the sorta damage you can deal to it with some drugs.

How does that mean it isn't a drug? It still fucks up your body, your mind and your social life. The fact that liver damage is treatable doesn't make it okay to abuse it. That's like saying "Fuck it mom, I'm not harming my eyes by sitting a foot in front of the TV, in a few years I'll just get glasses. Ain't no thang." Why does the availability of glasses make it acceptable to knowingly fuck up your vision?

This idea that drugs cause problems at work and should therefore be banned just reminds me how fascist minded people can be. (That is, the notion of 'We are the State')

If a private company thinks that employees or customers taking drugs before, during, or after working for or with them is going to be a problem, let THEM be the ones to decide what actions should be taken. If a private company thinks it's dangerous to hire someone who they find out has taken drugs or suspect of taking drugs, simply let them reject the person.

The idea that the government should ban drugs always for this reason alone is preposterous.

____________________

Nothing angers me more than the idiotic argument "Because Drugs are Bad, we must make them illegal."

That is NOT a good excuse. The fact that drugs are dangerous and addictive is MORE the reason to legalize them. ESPECIALLY if they are highly addictive.

Any time the State says that possession or sale of a drug is illegal, the results are, quite simply, that the government LEGISLATES that only criminals and corrupt police officers can own said drugs. If the drugs are highly addictive, they become even more lucrative. The more lucrative the drug, the more willing criminals become to go to dangerous extremes to try and traffic those drugs. They will be more willing to shoot rival gangs and to perhaps kill police officers because the profit opportunities of the illegalized drug are so high. This is why individuals that trade in relatively easy to get, and milder drugs such as Marijuana are not as likely to cause as many problems for society as those that trade in something like say, crack.

This has wider implications, because the law says only criminals can sell drugs. it is less difficult for the market and (if you INSIST that it is necessary) governments to regulate the safety and quality of the drug. Now I'm aware that drugs, even in their best form, are unhealthy. But when drugs are illegalized, the quality can only get worse. And all too often you may have drug peddlers that sell a drug of one kind that is in fact laced with another, which may lead to the drug user becoming addicted to OTHER drugs.

Worse yet is the possibility that, because the drugs are not regulated (Criminal gangs hardly compete for quality) drugs are generally produced in poor conditions and there is always the risk that overdoses of drugs occur. The idiot that made the pills puts too much chemical X in the mix, and the drugs end up killing the drug user.

Now, on the DEMAND side...

The more difficult it is to get your hands on a highly addictive drug, likewise, the greater the extremes drug addicts will go to get their hands on those drugs. The government keeps the supply of these drugs artificially low, but because the demand for highly addictive drugs is extremely inelastic, most drug addicts will not discontinue their drug use simply because a very small supply of drugs brings about high prices. Instead they'll just steal or go to other measures. I'm not saying that insanely high prices on drugs won't have ANY effect on drug use (perfect in-elasticity is merely a theoretical construct) But that the effect will be minimal, and this is shown in the fact that the drug addiction rate has not changed at all because of the drug war.

On a side note, this in elasticity of demand is why governments levy taxes on things like tobacco, alcohol, and other drugs; b/c demand for these drugs is usually inelastic and so revenues for tobacco companies and, likewise, government, usually don't fall if the price to the consumer increases (up to a certain point) So governments can raise sin taxes and, though perhaps lowering drug consumption slightly, they end up making more in taxes than is gained in fewer smokers or drinkers.

Note when i say danger, i say danger caused by addiction. Obviously there is a difference between banning nuclear bombs because they are dangerous and banning addictive drugs.

These people who argue against drug legalization simply do not understand the fundamentals of human action. The illegalization of drugs has done nothing beneficial on net to society. The only reason the drug war continues is probably because of corrupt law enforcement officers that keep up these myths. or perhaps the drug lords themselves are bribing or strong-arming politicians.