Best Countries To Live

[Tancrisism]

According to this, the HDI factor puts Norway at the top and Australia at the second.

I find this extremely flawed though. Australia has probably the most strict government censorship in any democratic country, and it's strange that this isn't a factor.

And then places like Finland have mandatory military service... And Singapore at 23? Their government is renowned for being quite oppressive and harsh with their punishments.

What do you think the best countries are to live in, and why? You cannot say the country you currently live in simply because you have lived a good life in it, you must have actual reasons.

[fatape]

ireally it boils down to personal peference,

however id say sweden is probaly a good bet,

-lax drug laws

-low crime rate

-lax pirating laws, (although the recent piratebay case shows differntly )

-overall secular society

[animehater]

I'd really like to see more detail on the factors involved and how these lists are produced.

[AKACCMIOF]

At 10/6/09 03:11 PM, Tancrisism wrote: What do you think the best countries are to live in, and why?

I'd think somewhere like Canada or Norway. They both have pretty good education, crime control and have pretty good job opportunities and nice cultures. However, Italy would be nice, with the minimal sexism, beautiful culture, good alcohol and no real violent street drunk culture. Also Greece has a popular drink "Ozo" I think it's called which is 40% alcohol. That MIGHT be worth the civil unrest when coupled with stunning history, beautiful culture and incredible weather and environment.

Japan would be a trip and a half as well. All the amazing Buddhist history, (now) liberal government and incredible ex-warrior monasteries to visit like in Naga. Caucasians are pretty sparse, so hopefully that would give me some kind value as a sort of representative for western culture (telling people about the underground drum n bass scene, etc.) Speaking Japanese is pretty damn tough though, and their economy isn't doing too well, but that's nothing new or unique!

Turkey or Lebanon would be amazing too. Incredible Muslim and Orthodox Christian heritage, incredible bazaars, just really stunning places. Public services ain't too good though! Also I'm not sure I'd be too popular in a country populated largely by Arab Muslims. Especially with the whole "Israel" thing!

I don't know, I'd probably go for Canada. Nice place, nice people.

[Tancrisism]

The HDI combines three dimensions:

* Life expectancy at birth, as an index of population health and longevity
* Knowledge and education, as measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weighting) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrollment ratio (with one-third weighting).
* Standard of living, as measured by the natural logarithm of gross domestic product per capita at purchasing power parity.

It doesn't include human rights or anything like that, so one must recognize that it is far too simplified.

[fli]

The United Nations has released its 2009 Human Development Index (HDI). The index uses three major factors to compare countries on how they treat their own citizens. The countries rated highest are generally considered the best countries to live in.

just cutting and pasting it so we don't have to click on the link...

The factors considered in computing the index are health, knowledge and standard of living. Health is determined by life expectancy at birth. Knowledge is measured by a combination of the adult literacy rate and the gross school enrollment ratio. Standard of living is arrived at by the Gross Domestic Product per capita.

The country with the highest HDI (best country to live in) is Norway. The country with the lowest HDI (worst country to live in) is Niger. Here are the top 25 countrys according to the HDI:

1. Norway
2. Australia
3. Iceland
4. Canada
5. Ireland
6. Netherlands
7. Sweden
8. France
9. Switzerland
10. Japan
11. Luxembourg
12. Finland
13. United States
14. Austria
15. Spain
16. Denmark
17. Belgium
18. Italy
19. Liechtenstein
20. New Zealand
21. United Kingdom
22. Germany
23. Singapore
24. Hong Kong
25. Greece

These are the 15 countries with the lowest HDI (starting with the worst):

182. Niger
181. Afghanistan
180. Sierra Leone
179. Central African Republic
178. Mali
177. Burkina Faso
176. Congo
175. Chad
174. Burundi
173. Guinea-Bissau
172. Mozambique
171. Ethiopia
170. Guinea
169. Liberia
168. Gambia

I think it's a fair outlook. I think people are shocked because the US isn't on top, but the thing is... the US heavily favors the wealthy over the less wealthy.

And although we like to capitalize on the American Dream, but places like Germany are comparable to what we have now... but they're better in other ways such as their crime rates, standard of living, and-- THEY HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT MOST PEOPLE COULD AFFORD. (In before someone uses the phrase "socialism...")

If we want to be on the higher up on the list, there's are a few ways that we could change... but that involves taxes... people, note... the higher ups tend to be people who have a relatively high tax per person ratio.

[Tancrisism]

At 10/6/09 04:47 PM, fli wrote:

I think it's a fair outlook. I think people are shocked because the US isn't on top, but the thing is... the US heavily favors the wealthy over the less wealthy.

Just so you know, it is me who is talking about this, not "people". And I am in no way shocked about it.

If we want to be on the higher up on the list, there's are a few ways that we could change... but that involves taxes... people, note... the higher ups tend to be people who have a relatively high tax per person ratio.

Right, again, this is not about the US; this is about which countries would actually be the best to live in. Chances are if human rights, censorship, freedom of press/speech and etc. were actually taken into consideration, Norway and Sweden would still be at the top and the US would still be where it is, but places like Australia and Singapore would be much farther from their current positions.

[ThePretenders]

Why isn't real wages considered a factor in measuring living standards? Real wages peaked from 1972 at $331.59 and although there has been progress in the last decade, it's nowhere as near as it was in the 1970s.

[fli]

At 10/6/09 04:53 PM, Tancrisism wrote: Just so you know, it is me who is talking about this, not "people". And I am in no way shocked about it.

But I wasn't talking specifically about you. I'm talking about people, in general, who would assume that the US would be on the higher up.

If you feel dissed at... I wasn't trying to disparage you.

Right, again, this is not about the US; this is about which countries would actually be the best to live in. Chances are if human rights, censorship, freedom of press/speech and etc. were actually taken into consideration, Norway and Sweden would still be at the top and the US would still be where it is, but places like Australia and Singapore would be much farther from their current positions.

But in places like Mexico, which has pretty much laws that's comparable to the US, is a 3rd world country. Their constitution is similar (save the exception of the gun laws) and in some ways... Mexico's constitution is better for people than the US because they haven't had the stupid things in like Grandfather clauses, and they've always been against slavery, and theyre moving on a fast track on gay marriage rights. (They may even be ahead of the game...)

It still wouldn't be on top of the list... or even move it up from where it maybe.

I think the problem stems from the title "best"-- if it said, "Countries with the highest HDI" then it would be precise. I mean, "best" is a relative term.

[AapoJoki]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Devel opment_Index

Countries not included:
Somalia, Zimbabwe, Iraq, North Korea (plus a bunch of tiny countries)

I have a feeling that some of these 4 countries, if not all of them, would be in the bottom 15 if they could be measured.

[Eddyking]

OH TEH NOEZ, USA IS NO GOOD PLACE 2 LIVE????

Your economy was the first to blow in the global recession, your social class divide leaves your capitol sprawling with hobos, and nearly 25% of your national budget is spent on maintaining a pointless war and over 100 military bases around the globe, some in countries perfectly capable of handling themselves. Seriously, go look it up.

You know why places like Iceland make it into the top three? Because they don't run around the world killing anything and everything that dares speak out against them.

[Warforger]

Not to change course much but how exactly is Niger worse then Afghanistan? I didn't even know that was possible!

As for the US, it has a broad spectrum of living conditions, thus its not easy or accurate to group them all together, while this may be true for most countries as well, the US has a even bigger spectrum due to immigration, outdated public works like highways and pipelines, a big amount of land with a broad spectrum of people and problems.

[AapoJoki]

At 10/6/09 05:28 PM, Eddyking wrote: angry rant

In case you didn't notice, USA ranks higher than the UK.

[Jon-86]

At 10/6/09 05:33 PM, AapoJoki wrote:

At 10/6/09 05:28 PM, Eddyking wrote: angry rant

In case you didn't notice, USA ranks higher than the UK.

Your point being? We all know this country is balls, thats why Americans don't get the jokes the comedians here come out with :P

Anyway this list dosn't interest me because my country doesn't exist yet to be numbered and ranked. So I have nothing to feel good or bad about as of now.

[ASKDodge]

At 10/6/09 06:06 PM, Jon-86 wrote: Anyway this list doesn't interest me because my country doesn't exist yet to be numbered and ranked. So I have nothing to feel good or bad about as of now.

Which country is that?

[Jon-86]

At 10/6/09 06:08 PM, ASKDodge wrote:

At 10/6/09 06:06 PM, Jon-86 wrote: Anyway this list doesn't interest me because my country doesn't exist yet to be numbered and ranked. So I have nothing to feel good or bad about as of now.

Which country is that?

The republic of Scotland, my southern chum.

[ASKDodge]

At 10/6/09 06:12 PM, Jon-86 wrote: The republic of Scotland, my southern chum.

Ah, well, I was going to say if the SNP get what they want that could happen, but they don't quite want a republic. Is there a party in Scotland that campaigns for a Scottish republic?

Anyway, I'm a bit disheartened to hear that the UK is below the US. I would have said that we had greater social mobility, tend to live longer and have a lower crime rate.

[Jon-86]

At 10/6/09 06:23 PM, ASKDodge wrote: Ah, well, I was going to say if the SNP get what they want that could happen, but they don't quite want a republic. Is there a party in Scotland that campaigns for a Scottish republic?

Their are republican members in that party. They plan to hold a referendum on whether we keep links to the monarchy if we get independence. Their are no hard line republican parties and to socialists are divided so their not going anywhere fast.

Anyway, I'm a bit disheartened to hear that the UK is below the US. I would have said that we had greater social mobility, tend to live longer and have a lower crime rate.

The Torie government in the 80s kinda fucked us up and the Labour government have been trying to fix their mess, its not a surprise to me.

[Warforger]

Exactly why do you want to break away though?

[ThePretenders]

At 10/6/09 07:31 PM, Warforger wrote: Exactly why do you want to break away though?

"Breaking away" means leaving one block (UK) to join another (EU) according to the Scottish Nationalist Party, the main pro-independence party in the Scottish Parliament*.

*Assuming you don't live here

To Jon, The UK won't have much sovereignty left after the inevitable passing of the Lisbon Treaty following the Yes referendum, and it makes little sense for the nationalist movement to be led by the SNP because of their contradictory policies.

Which brings me back to the referendum, it's ironic that the Irish fought for their right to be sovereign and yet they joining at the hip of the EU.

[ThePretenders]

I forgot to add if the goals of Scottish nationalism are that her people will exercise sovereignty over themselves, than you need an anti-EU party with mass popular appeal. That will be preferable to the SNP's vision IMO.

[ThePretenders]

At 10/6/09 07:59 PM, ThePretenders wrote: I forgot to add, if the goals of Scottish nationalism are that her people exercise sovereignty over themselves, then you need an anti-EU party with mass popular appeal. That will be preferable to the SNP's vision IMO.

Fixed.

[Jon-86]

At 10/6/09 07:31 PM, Warforger wrote: Exactly why do you want to break away though?

I've gone over it in a bit more detail in this thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/6946 31/3 Its basically natural progression and from breaking away the Scottish government would be in a better position to improve the average persons quality of living.

At 10/6/09 07:51 PM, ThePretenders wrote: To Jon, The UK won't have much sovereignty left after the inevitable passing of the Lisbon Treaty following the Yes referendum, and it makes little sense for the nationalist movement to be led by the SNP because of their contradictory policies.

The Lisbon treaty isn't inevitable. And I think its crap we don't have a say in it like the Irish do! I hope they vote no again. But say it did get passed. The Scottish government would still be like a subsidiary of the British government, we would still be affected by the British governments policies internal and foreign.

Which brings me back to the referendum, it's ironic that the Irish fought for their right to be sovereign and yet they joining at the hip of the EU.

The people don't want it. Businesses do. Their has been a big push for a yes vote this time from Businesses but Sinn Fein still opposes Lisbon as well as a few other parties. This speech sums it up for me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I2lSnMs8 N0

No irony here, just trickery from business. Even that Michael O'leary guy who owns Ryanair. The only reason he is supporting yes this time is because their was an apparent deal done with him taking over (making him a majority shareholder) in Aer Lingus. And he isn't even trying to hide that fact.

[animehater]

At 10/6/09 05:28 PM, Eddyking wrote: Mindless rant

(Sigh)

[Sajberhippien]

At 10/6/09 03:17 PM, fatape wrote: however id say sweden is probaly a good bet,

I live in Sweden and only partially agree. Or rather, I agree that it's quite nice to live here, but some of the points I disagree with.

-lax drug laws

Not really. People still go to jail for smoking cannabis, even in small amounts.

-low crime rate

Yes, very low crime rate compared to the US at least. Especially violent crimes.

-lax pirating laws, (although the recent piratebay case shows differntly )

Not in any way. We've got the IPRED law which allows private companies to act as the police, doing "search and seizures" and sueing without even having to prove it ever happened. This is quite a new law though, and before, Sweden had decent piracy laws though not really "lax". It's not like we didn't have the sick immaterial rights laws that are everywhere else in the world :/

-overall secular society

Yeah, this is true and really nice.

[AKACCMIOF]

At 10/6/09 06:12 PM, Jon-86 wrote: The republic of Scotland, my southern chum.

Haha! You guys have got to be ahead, with everything the Barnet formulas done!

[Jon-86]

At 10/7/09 03:34 PM, AKACCMIOF wrote:

At 10/6/09 06:12 PM, Jon-86 wrote: The republic of Scotland, my southern chum.

Haha! You guys have got to be ahead, with everything the Barnet formulas done!

Nah its a brass neck having to ask for money! And theirs more than that, the majority of people in Scotland didn't want to go to war. In fact Alex Salmond was one of the main people up here who tried to impeach Blair. I'm glad to know my government doesn't bend over to support Americas illegal wars.

[Tancrisism]

At 10/6/09 05:28 PM, Eddyking wrote: OH TEH NOEZ, USA IS NO GOOD PLACE 2 LIVE????

I find it interesting that some people automatically assume that just because an American sees flaws in the HDI they think it is because it doesn't favor the US.

You know why places like Iceland make it into the top three? Because they don't run around the world killing anything and everything that dares speak out against them.

Right.

As I said before, even if the HDI took into consideration more factors, such as human rights and censorship, the USA would probably be somewhere close to its current position. Places like Australia and Germany might be lower, but places like Switzerland, Sweden, and the Netherlands may be higher. Norway would probably still be on top.

[RubberTrucky]

I thought that the UK and Belgium were best shielded against natural disasters.

[yurgenburgen]

The Republic of Korea is at number 26... surely that's South Korea?