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Why are you guys still arguing? Pox, your idea is good. Butterballs need to lose weight. But if you honestly don't see any problem with forcibly sending kids to what is basically a prison camp and MAKING them exert themselves to their limit and billing their parents for it... If you can't see anything wrong with that sentence, then you must really hate fatties.

At 10/17/09 12:41 AM, TheStonePilot wrote: what is basically a prison camp

Maybe you should have googled what fat camps are before posting and having me roll my eyes at you.

At 10/17/09 12:34 AM, Proteas wrote:

At 10/16/09 01:26 PM, poxpower wrote:

they don't have the desire to lose the weight.

Let's use another example.
Proteas, do you want to have more money?
"yes!"
So why aren't you doing everything you can to get more money?
Why aren't you reading books about making money? Why aren't you fake-investing in stock markets to see how you do? Why aren't you studying tax laws and banks to see how you can save money?

Because it's HARD, time-consuming and seems like a really huge impossible task when you have no experience doing it.

That's weight loss.

You put physical image over physical health, dude. Shame on you.

Never once did I say the goal of the camp would be to turn the kids into super-athletes or fitness trainers. Nowhere did I ever mention that the kids would be shown that the real goal of weight loss is to look good.
In fact almost all of my arguments in this topic so far have been dedicated to the health repercussions of being obese.

You wanted to talk numbers.
YOU WANTED.

And now I'm discussing the reality of it.

No you're not, you're still talking nonsense.
All you just did was post "yes I totally am" followed by 4 lines of irrelevant insults.

This is your clever way of never having to discuss this point again, instead derailing the conversation to something pointless.

Yet you're going to let the camp counselors yell at the kids, call and let the parents yell at the kids (with the threats of ass beatings), and then just ignore them for the rest of the summer letting them repeat the whole process again next summer. Yeah, lots of fun you've got planned for these kids.

That was the response to overly rowdy and misbehaving kids, it's not the camp program you brainless mental midget.

Oh yeah, you're also going to have this all based on pre-existing facilities, not camps out in the woods where they might be able to enjoy things liking hiking, canoeing, horseback riding, or other camp like things.

Like I said, if you have money, send them wherever you want.
If you don't have money, at least your kid has easy access to help.

Wow, they've spent 10+ years in school getting yelled at and now they don't even have a diploma! CONGRATULATIONS, SCHOOL PROGRAM YOU HAVE CREATED MILLIONS OF PSYCHOPATHS.

Who's committing strawman, now?

YOU THIS IS YOUR ARGUMENT TURNED BACK ON YOU.
Apparently you realize it's completely insane when used against you but you don't see why it's crazy when you use it.

Because your system is crap, dude.

You've shown repeatedly that you don't have the faintest clue what the system would be.

At 10/17/09 01:40 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/17/09 12:41 AM, TheStonePilot wrote: what is basically a prison camp

Maybe you should have googled what fat camps are before posting and having me roll my eyes at you.

Hm, forced to go for a period of time... unable to leave... disciplined.. Yah, that's pretty much a prison camp. You know, you would have been an awesome Nazi concentration camp designer.

At 10/17/09 04:10 AM, TheStonePilot wrote:

Hm, forced to go for a period of time... unable to leave... disciplined..

That sounds like a school.
In other news: you are fucking retarded.

At 10/17/09 01:40 AM, poxpower wrote: That's weight loss.

Weight loss involves physical exertion, dude, not mental exertion and manipulation of paper. If you're to tired from being over weight to work out, then the desire to work out and lose the weight isn't going to be there. And if you don't desire to lose the weight, all the yelling, screaming, mandatory fat camps in the world aren't going to help you.

Never once did I say the goal of the camp would be to turn the kids into super-athletes or fitness trainers. Nowhere did I ever mention that the kids would be shown that the real goal of weight loss is to look good.

Yes, you did. "Trim and muscular" over "fit and healthy," you put physical image over physical health, and then re-enforced that by saying "this is what society deems normal." You're arguing an arbitrary social construct (hm, that rings a bell) over actual healthy weight loss goals.

No you're not, you're still talking nonsense.

And you're doing everything you can to avoid addressing it, because you know I'm right.

That was the response to overly rowdy and misbehaving kids, it's not the camp program you brainless mental midget.

If that's the way you handle the kids who don't/won't/can't lose weight, that's systematic abuse, and you're reinforcing low self esteem levels and low self worth, in addition to alienating them from the rest of the group. You're setting up a ticking time bomb for somebody to snap.

Like I said, if you have money, send them wherever you want.
If you don't have money, at least your kid has easy access to help.

And if you don't, what then? You're stuck in a run down school all summer trying to lose weight with NO EQUIPMENT while the rich kids get the option of going somewhere else, all because your parents don't make enough to qualify. I can see Jesse Jackson having a field day with this accusing you of being a racist already, with lawyers for the NAACP suing you into oblivion.

YOU THIS IS YOUR ARGUMENT TURNED BACK ON YOU.

No it isn't, it's you grasping for straws because you're running out of things to say at this point. Kids drop out of school because they want to, they can't do that in your program.

You've shown repeatedly that you don't have the faintest clue what the system would be.

How can I fully understand the system when you have been constantly revising this system all throughout this topic to suit whatever point you want to be right about at that moment?

At 10/17/09 11:02 AM, Proteas wrote: If you're to tired from being over weight to work out, then the desire to work out and lose the weight isn't going to be there.

Just because you're too lazy to work at something you want doesn't mean you don't want it anymore.

Yes, you did. "Trim and muscular" over "fit and healthy,"

I'm ctrl+F ing this topic and nowhere can I find me saying this.
Where is it?

This is about the 10th time where you say "hey you said blablabla" which I never said and you don't back it up with a simple quote from this topic.

The only time I make mention of body image is when I say what people want to look like. Everyone wants to look buff, that's what I said when you were droning on about how fat people don't want to lose weight ( which means you think they want to be fat basically )

If that's the way you handle the kids who don't/won't/can't lose weight, that's systematic abuse,

No, it's not abuse.
Putting a kid in detention is not abuse. Yelling at a kid in class is not abuse. Putting a kid in the corridor is not abuse. Calling their parents is not abuse.

STOP HUFFING PAINT BEFORE YOU REPLY TO ME.

You're stuck in a run down school all summer trying to lose weight with NO EQUIPMENT while the rich kids get the option of going somewhere else, all because your parents don't make enough to qualify.

Yeah, again: welcome to America.
WHAT SO IF I DON'T HAVE MONEY I CAN'T BUY THE LATEST COMPUTER? WHAT IS THIS? THAT'S RACISM SINCE BLACK PEOPLE HAVE LESS MONEY SO MICROSOFT IS RACIST AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE!

Fuck it Elfer already shat on you for this I'm not going on.

No it isn't, it's you grasping for straws because you're running out of things to say at this point. Kids drop out of school because they want to, they can't do that in your program.

Kids can't drop out of school until a certain age, which is the exact same for the camp program as I have mentioned about 5-6 times by now.
The cutoff age is 16. That's the same age as when you can drop out of school. If that depends on a province of state, then the age for dropping out of camp will always be the same as dropping out of school.

How can I fully understand the system when you have been constantly revising this system all throughout this topic to suit whatever point you want to be right about at that moment?

You blatantly DON'T READ WHAT I WRITE.
It's painfully clear. Just using Ctrl+F anwers about 95% of your questions each post you make.

I'd vote more for Mandatory English Camp.

Anyone who types like:

'teh red dawg run fst lol'

Needs to go to a camp for three weeks.

If they can't type proper fucking sentences by the three weeks are up, get put against the wall.

At 10/17/09 12:34 AM, Proteas wrote:

At 10/16/09 01:26 PM, poxpower wrote: That's an innate trait in all humans.

Then why aren't people losing weight on their own? According to your logic, they want to lose the weight, and since there's enough resources out there for them to do it with, so they shouldn't need you're camps to help them along the way.

But get this, you think they do need your camps, that they NEED to be forced to lose the weight... which means... they don't have the desire to lose the weight.

How's that fantasy world working for you? Where people achieve something by mere desire?
Desire + knowledge + will = Achievement. If you lack the rest you need assistance.

I hope you're just trolling pox, though. You can't possibly mean that.

At 10/17/09 11:32 AM, poxpower wrote: Just because you're too lazy to work at something you want doesn't mean you don't want it anymore.

If you're to lazy to do the work, then you don't want it. Plain and simple.

Where is it?

Last page, dude.

At 10/16/09 01:11 AM, poxpower wrote: It's an indisputable truth of modern culture. Everyone wants to be thin and muscular. No one wants to be a fat sack of lard.

The only time I make mention of body image is when I say what people want to look like.

Which means you place more value on the way people look over the way they are. You're reinforcing a cultural standard of beauty, not a realistic standard of health.

No, it's not abuse.
Putting a kid in detention is not abuse. Yelling at a kid in class is not abuse. Putting a kid in the

Doing it six summers in a row? That's abuse. You're forcing someone who can't and won't do the work to keep attending your camp over and over again, and in the end when they don't get the superficial results you want them to have, you just throw your hands up and go "oh well, sucks to be you" and leaving the parents and the government stuck with the bill.

So now you've got...
- an alienated fat kid (because you ruined six summers)
- pissed off parents (because you wasted their money)
- pissed off minority leaders (because your plan screws them over in the worst way)
- government oversight comittees wondering why your wasting their money...

WHAT SO IF I DON'T HAVE MONEY I CAN'T BUY THE LATEST COMPUTER? WHAT IS THIS? THAT'S RACISM SINCE BLACK PEOPLE HAVE LESS MONEY SO MICROSOFT IS RACIST AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE!

You're forcing a system on people, nobody is forcing you to buy a computer.

Kids can't drop out of school until a certain age, which is the exact same for the camp program as I have mentioned about 5-6 times by now.

The point remains; they can drop out if they want, they can't with your program. They don't even have the option to opt-out of the program like the far superior British who idolize you allow people to do.

You blatantly DON'T READ WHAT I WRITE.

Because you're playing Calvin Ball. You're making it up as you go along.

At 10/17/09 12:11 PM, Fuoco wrote:

I hope you're just trolling pox, though. You can't possibly mean that.

Oh no, he's for real.
He's been like this for years.

At 10/16/09 01:11 AM, poxpower wrote: It's an indisputable truth of modern culture. Everyone wants to be thin and muscular. No one wants to be a fat sack of lard.
The only time I make mention of body image is when I say what people want to look like.

Which means you place more value on the way people look over the way they are.

No.
I can't even understand how anyone could read that into that quote.

Every second that passes by I am more convinced that you are in a closed room where someone is spray-painting a giant mural.

Doing it six summers in a row? That's abuse.

Far less than 10 years of school which starts even earlier and lasts 5 times as long.
Also that's not what "abuse" means.

You're forcing someone who can't and won't do the work to keep attending your camp over and over again, and in the end when they don't get the superficial results you want them to have, you just throw your hands up and go "oh well, sucks to be you" and leaving the parents and the government stuck with the bill.

Yeah how is that any different than school? 30% dropout rate, government funded, costs parents money, forced on kids, many kids can't and don't want to do the work and are forced to even REPEAT grades or attend summer classes.
School sounds far worse than fat camp.

You're forcing a system on people, nobody is forcing you to buy a computer.

It's the exact same for school you dimwit. If you have no money, you go to a shitty underfunded public school. If you have tons of money, you're sent to an upscale private school.

That's not racist, that's capitalism.

Anyway I'm done arguing this point. Take it up with Elfer.

Kids can't drop out of school until a certain age, which is the exact same for the camp program as I have mentioned about 5-6 times by now.

The point remains; they can drop out if they want, they can't with your program.

I just said they can. You're replying to a sentence that says the opposite of what you're claiming. At least wait a page until you start fabricating your nonsense.

At 10/17/09 12:46 PM, poxpower wrote: Oh no, he's for real.
He's been like this for years.

He was talking about you, dude, asking if you were trolling.

I can't even understand how anyone could read that into that quote.

It's simple; you mentioned cultural standards and physical beauty. If you were concerned with the actual health of the individual, you wouldn't give a damn what they actually looked like in terms of being muscular and the like, just so long as they were healthy.

School sounds far worse than fat camp.

Do school administrators go out of their way to systematically alienate kids like they do in your fat camp system? I don't think so.

It's the exact same for school you dimwit.

You can live in today's society without a computer, you can't without a basic education. So no, they are not the same thing.

I just said they can.

Because you're playing Calvin Ball; you're making it up as you go along, and modifying the idea so you're always right. You've argued all throughout this topic that kids would not have the ability to opt out of the program, that they were going regardless of whether or not they wanted to go (and don't even try to deny it).

This is too easy. And now, for the knockout punch.

34% of adults are considered obese, with another 33% considered overweight, and fat kids in the age group you intend to force into your camps only make up 18 percent of that population. You do realize that with the numbers you've cited, you've doubled the government expenditure for healthcare on the obese, yet are only focusing on the kids? What's the rest of the fat population going to think when they find out the government is funding weight loss camps for kids, but not for the majority of fat people, i.e.; adults?

Take it to the pm's, boys.

At 10/17/09 11:52 PM, amaterasu wrote: Take it to the pm's, boys.

Unless you've noticed by now, pox is an egotist. He'll settle for nothing less than victory and public humiliation of his opponent in a topic. The sad thing is, he actually thinks he can.

At 10/5/09 03:43 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/5/09 03:20 PM, Proteas wrote:

And how many billions would be spent getting the fat people in shape?

I dunno, like 1/10th of the billions spent on diabetes medicine each year?

At 10/5/09 03:23 PM, AapoJoki wrote: Being fat isn't as counterproductive as being illiterate.

Well being illiterate doesn't drain the healthcare system :O

Malnutrition and obesity is the number 1 problem in the first world countries and it's all because of bad habits and bad education.

If we're willing to spend the money to educate people how to do math and learn history, I think it's a fair thing to use it to make them get in shape.

With this kind of fitness education, there's no guarantee that you'll stay fit once you're out of school and able to make your own decisions.

I think the success rate would be more than satisfactory. But we won't know until we try right?

"I don't Know like 1/10 billion spent on diabetes mediacation." CONGRATULATIONS you may be the stupidest person I have come in contact with. A morbidly obese person does not have to have diabetes. Diabetes is simply a heredity problem in one case, and in another you don't balance your consumption of sugar with exercise/proper health routines. Complain about ANYONE's health routines not being sterling NOT people being overweight you idiot. You just have no idea do you?
Not a single clue as to what you are talking about yet you flap your sorry excuse for a mouth at the people on these forums about a mandatory fat camp that makes less sense than your replies. Think before you talk, don't be impulsive, don't be ignorant. I've known people that are extremely obese that are more productive to society than people like you, I bet over 50% of "fat" people are more intelligent than you. Or am I giving you too much credit?

/FACEPALM

At 10/17/09 11:42 PM, Proteas wrote:

He was talking about you, dude, asking if you were trolling.

haahahahah
Here's an English lesson from a french-canadian:

"I hope you're just trolling pox, though."=== YOU'RE TROLLING
"I hope you're just trolling, pox, though."== I AM

Observe:

I hope you killed Bob!
I hope you killed, Bob!

It's simple; you mentioned cultural standards and physical beauty.

I said it's something people want. That doesn't mean it's the only thing they want or the thing they want most.
Logic lesson #592452:

"Bob wants a couch"
Does this mean:

A. Bob wants a couch
B. Bob wants nothing but a couch
C. Bob wants nothing more than a couch

Than answer may surprise you!

Do school administrators go out of their way to systematically alienate kids like they do in your fat camp system? I don't think so.

All I said it they'd discipline trouble kids. It's the exact same in every school that's ever existed.

It's the exact same for school you dimwit.

You can live in today's society without a computer, you can't without a basic education. So no, they are not the same thing.

English lesson #2:
It's the exact same FOR school".
That means SOMETHING is the exact same both for camp and for school. That doesn't mean both school and camp are the same in every respect.

I was EXTREMELY CLEARLY talking about the choice of dropping out. This is the 3rd post in a row where I tell you that you can drop out of camp just at the same time you can drop out of school whatever that age is where you live.

You do realize that with the numbers you've cited, you've doubled the government expenditure for healthcare on the obese,

What? I don't even know they spend anything on the obese. What numbers do you base this claim on?

yet are only focusing on the kids?

I never said this would be the only measure taken.
All this topic is about is how you can actually force kids to go to a fat camp whereas you can't force adults. You can't make a mandatory fat camp for adults.

There's a lot of other things the government can do to help adults but they have to do it voluntarily. Unlike kids.

Pox, just shut up, this is a long drawn out argument that has no victor and will not due to your stubborn nature and misunderstanding of how anything works in this world, go jump off a cliff.

At 10/18/09 02:12 PM, MichaelLee93 wrote: Pox, just shut up, this is a long drawn out argument that has no victor and will not due to your stubborn nature and misunderstanding of how anything works in this world, go jump off a cliff.

wait they're still arguing about fat camps?

It's sad that our country is so focused on looks that the media portrays that overweight people (who may actually not eat that much, but just have high motabolisms) are sent to 'fat camps' to 'get healthy' and 'become normal like the rest of the children' all over America. I'm not a fat person, I'm only 85 lbs, but all I'm saying is that this country was founded on being fat and lazy, so why try to change what we were taught from birth? The parents who do this are to blame. They overfeed their kid and let them eat whatever they want, and then all of the sudden it's the KID'S FAULT that they are fat....you sicken me, you bastards. Learn to parent.

Personally I think if a fat kid wants to eat and fuck up his body, I say let him. we can't tell them its bad to be overweight... they have to learn for themselves. If you wand to eat at Mcdonalds go ahead but when you are 500 pounds at 30 and have a heart attack, thats when they'll say "holy shit I gotta lose 150 pounds" and thats what i like to call a wake up call...

At 10/17/09 11:01 AM, poxpower wrote:
That sounds like a school.
In other news: you are fucking retarded.

Ah, but schools actually do something useful. Something you need, no matter what your profession is.

Admit it, Poxy, you just hate fatties.

At 10/18/09 06:25 PM, TheStonePilot wrote: Something you need, no matter what your profession is.

4000 years ago, you were lucky as shit to know how to read.
Scratch that, 400 years ago you were lucky.

Looks like we got by just fine. Education is about raising our standards of living and so is attaining health through whatever means. A fat population is an unhealthy population with a shittier standard of living.

Whatever, the social change will make itself eventually. One day it will be looked down upon to be fat just like it is looked down upon today to not be able to read. We pity those people and rightfully so.

I am wondering, Poxy, how does your legislature apply to those who are chronically obese or other medical problems? Obvious trying to make them loose weight won't save any money. And isn't it possible that you would actually lose much more money trying to get all fat people to lose weight instead of curing those who encounter medical problems?

Draw a bill please.

At 10/18/09 02:12 PM, MichaelLee93 wrote: Pox, just shut up, this is a long drawn out argument that has no victor and will not due to your stubborn nature and misunderstanding of how anything works in this world, go jump off a cliff.

Pox has been quite right this entire time, all his points remain valid. I know it's hard for you to understand that people might need outside influences to help them lose weight, but it's actually quite necessary in today's society before the epidemic gets worse.

In comparison to mandatory schooling it's really not that bad.

At 10/18/09 06:57 PM, ImaSmartass2 wrote:

Obvious trying to make them loose weight won't save any money.

Ok just so we're clear, you're talking about some kind of disease or condition that makes people fat no matter what?

Which doesn't exist as far as I know.

At 10/18/09 07:12 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/18/09 06:57 PM, ImaSmartass2 wrote:

Obvious trying to make them loose weight won't save any money.

Ok just so we're clear, you're talking about some kind of disease or condition that makes people fat no matter what?

Diabetes and genetics can cause childhood obesity that is very hard to solve. Also you din't correct my grammar. Lose weight is the proper term. I'm not picking a fight with you Pox.

Slightly Source.

At 10/18/09 07:19 PM, ImaSmartass2 wrote:

At 10/18/09 07:12 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/18/09 06:57 PM, ImaSmartass2 wrote:

Obvious trying to make them loose weight won't save any money.

Ok just so we're clear, you're talking about some kind of disease or condition that makes people fat no matter what?

Diabetes and genetics can cause childhood obesity that is very hard to solve. Also you din't correct my grammar. Lose weight is the proper term. I'm not picking a fight with you Pox.

Slightly Source.

Sorry for the DP. But the grammar thing was my bad. I didn't check if I had used it right in the first place. Lulz sorry Pox.

At 10/18/09 06:38 PM, poxpower wrote:
Whatever, the social change will make itself eventually. One day it will be looked down upon to be fat just like it is looked down upon today to not be able to read. We pity those people and rightfully so.

'One day' was about 3 years ago. Have you seen a magazine in the past 20 years?

It's an immoral system. It's a good system, but it's just not right. And yes, you will reply with A) 'You're retarded' or B) 'who cares' or C) 'banhammah', but that's just the truth. Funding better school exercise and healthier lunches, would also help, without the added damage of a bunch of lawsuits.

At 10/18/09 06:13 AM, poxpower wrote: "I hope you're just trolling pox, though."=== YOU'RE TROLLING
"I hope you're just trolling, pox, though."== I AM

English lesson from an American; "you're" is a contraction, consisting of the words "you" and "are." So when he said "I hope you're just trolling, pox" he meant, "I hope you are just trolling, pox." He was still referring to you, in the hopes that you were not really trolling.

I said it's something people want. That doesn't mean it's the only thing they want or the thing they want most.

You argued an arbitrary cultural standard, pox. Doesn't that strike you just as a little bit... odd?

All I said it they'd discipline trouble kids. It's the exact same in every school that's ever existed.

Yeah, yelling at a kid because he's fat and sad you screwed up his next 5 summers. GO YOU!!!

That doesn't mean both school and camp are the same in every respect.

Just when it suits whatever you're trying to be right about, right?

I was EXTREMELY CLEARLY talking about the choice of dropping out.

Only after you were shown how the British people who idolize you allow people to opt out of their program. Before that, you're attitude was "tough shit" all throughout this topic.

What? I don't even know they spend anything on the obese. What numbers do you base this claim on?

I see what you did there, point taken.

I never said this would be the only measure taken.

Actually, you as good as did. You put together this whole plan, then hinged it's future financial success on the current generation of fat people dying off so you wouldn't have to pay for their healthcare anymore.

Which brings me back to the previous point; what's going to happen when all the fat adults in this nation you think just need to be forced to lose the weight are going to be left to die, while the next generation gets (what you call) "help" to lose the weight?

At 10/18/09 10:02 PM, Proteas wrote: English lesson from an American; "you're" is a contraction, consisting of the words "you" and "are." So when he said "I hope you're just trolling, pox" he meant, "I hope you are just trolling, pox." He was still referring to you, in the hopes that you were not really trolling.

I lol'd. I don't see how adding the "are" in there changes anything.

It still means the same thing.

At 10/18/09 10:02 PM, Proteas wrote: English lesson from an American; "you're" is a contraction, consisting of the words "you" and "are."

Oh my god.

You argued an arbitrary cultural standard, pox. Doesn't that strike you just as a little bit... odd?

You have SEVERE reading comprehension problems.

Yeah, yelling at a kid because he's fat and sad you screwed up his next 5 summers. GO YOU!!!

Again welcome to the Straw Man world of Proteas where suddenly disciplining a kid because he's a troublemaker is equated to yelling at him because he's a fat failure.

I was EXTREMELY CLEARLY talking about the choice of dropping out.

Only after you were shown how the British people who idolize you allow people to opt out of their program. Before that, you're attitude was "tough shit" all throughout this topic.

More nonsense. The British program is NEVER mandatory so it doesn't compare in this respect. Second I've mentioned several times what the cutoff age would be.

quote from me: "Yeah once you're 16, you're free from the fat camps. Congrats."

PAGE ONE

I never said this would be the only measure taken.

Actually, you as good as did.

No, never.

Which brings me back to the previous point; what's going to happen when all the fat adults in this nation you think just need to be forced to lose the weight are going to be left to die

How are they going to be left to die? There's tons of program for them already, you just can't force them just like you can't force smokers to quit smoking but you can ban kids from buying smokes and smoking anywhere in public.