Cuba - Travel/Cigars

[hippl5]

Why is traveling to Cuba, or trading STILL illegal? What good reason is there for it? US is supposed to be a free country, yet this bullshit still stands.

[RandomFreak]

At this point it's basically a cold war hold-over. The embargo was started when Castro took over as part of the anti-communist stance of the US government. It's all become a little bit silly with the cold war over for the better part of two decades and now Castro himself not in the seat of power (yes I know he put his brother there but that's splitting hairs at this point). The problem is nobody wants to be seen as a friend of communism even when it's not really seen as the threat it used to be, so a serious proposal to lift the embargo just never seems to come up.

[Proteas]

At 10/4/09 12:03 PM, hippl5 wrote: US is supposed to be a free country, yet this bullshit still stands.

Would somebody PLEASE explain to me why every time somebody doesn't get their way in this country, they resort back to this mentality? I could understand calling "bullshit" on a lame U.S. policy, but to go back to "DEY IS VIOLATIN' MAH FREEDOMS!!!" argument every time something happens you don't neccesarily agree with is getting old.

[hippl5]

At 10/5/09 12:04 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 10/4/09 12:03 PM, hippl5 wrote: US is supposed to be a free country, yet this bullshit still stands.

Would somebody PLEASE explain to me why every time somebody doesn't get their way in this country, they resort back to this mentality? I could understand calling "bullshit" on a lame U.S. policy, but to go back to "DEY IS VIOLATIN' MAH FREEDOMS!!!" argument every time something happens you don't neccesarily agree with is getting old.

cuz dey is violatin them!

Ok, you're right that's a bad argument on my part. But there's still no good reason as to why the ban still exists.

[porkybacon]

At 10/4/09 12:03 PM, hippl5 wrote: Why is traveling to Cuba, or trading STILL illegal? What good reason is there for it? US is supposed to be a free country, yet this bullshit still stands.

Because U.S. is a Racist Country. Face it! U.S. has more Hate Crimes Commited than a Christian/Nazi Convention.

[porkybacon]

Would somebody PLEASE explain to me why every time somebody doesn't get their way in this country, they resort back to this mentality? I could understand calling "bullshit" on a lame U.S. policy, but to go back to "DEY IS VIOLATIN' MAH FREEDOMS!!!" argument every time something happens you don't neccesarily agree with is getting old.

Excactly.

[Tancrisism]

At 10/5/09 09:45 PM, porkybacon wrote: Because U.S. is a Racist Country. Face it! U.S. has more Hate Crimes Commited than a Christian/Nazi Convention.

Go back to your bridge.

Yes, it's a silly embargo. They are starting to ease it, though, for instance Cubans in the US may now visit their relatives in Cuba. One of my friends is actually there right now going to the University of Havana (she's a whitey American from California). So it's better than it's been.

Mostly now it's just the same old fact that once something becomes a part of political culture it is difficult to change. The embargo has become a part of both of our political cultures.

[SkunkyFluffy]

I will point out that Cuban cigars are not what they're cracked up to be. Most of the truly good Cuban cigar makers fled the country after Castro came to power and now manufacture their smokes in Nicaragua and other countries.

Not that it really matters to the debate, I just always wondered why people are so passionate about these cigars, since the only thing they really have going for them is that they're illegal.

[hippl5]

At 10/5/09 09:55 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote: I will point out that Cuban cigars are not what they're cracked up to be. Most of the truly good Cuban cigar makers fled the country after Castro came to power and now manufacture their smokes in Nicaragua and other countries.

Not that it really matters to the debate, I just always wondered why people are so passionate about these cigars, since the only thing they really have going for them is that they're illegal.

It's not the cigars, it's the principle.

That's like saying "Nobody can buy pizza from papa johns because the workers are jerks and I don't like tham".

[stafffighter]

At 10/6/09 07:03 PM, hippl5 wrote:

At 10/5/09 09:55 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote:
Not that it really matters to the debate, I just always wondered why people are so passionate about these cigars, since the only thing they really have going for them is that they're illegal.

It's not the cigars, it's the principle.

That's like saying "Nobody can buy pizza from papa johns because the workers are jerks and I don't like tham".

Well that's just it. Can you see someone fighting like this for pizza? Unless of course it's forbidden pizza.
Cuban cigars gain an air of class and exclusivity because they are illegal. Without it they'd just be cigars. Yes they'd be nice cigars but you can already get nice cigars. So in that sense yes it is the princible, but not in the way you mean it.
I had some years ago in Canada. We got them at a convieince store so I think that says something about the availability. They were good as far as I knew cigars back then but you could tell they were marketed on American tourists being flabergasted they were legal.

[Tancrisism]

The desire to smoke Cuban cigars is not the main reason that lifting the embargo would be desirable to both Cuba and the US. I'm sure you don't think that though.

[Zintendo]

Because Fidel Castro sucks donkey nuts, and Cuba almost nuked Florida in the red menace. America has no reason to repeal the laws they put up against Cuba about no trading.

[TheStonePilot]

At 10/6/09 08:37 PM, Zintendo wrote: Because Fidel Castro sucks donkey nuts, and Cuba almost nuked Florida in the red menace. America has no reason to repeal the laws they put up against Cuba about no trading.

Besids, you know, stimulating Cubas economy. Oh, and Fidel isn't in power anymore, and it wasn't Cuba who was trying to nuke America, it was the U.S.S.R. So nice try, but fail troll.

Being a Cuban myself, I've only visited twice. Once with my father, who was born there, and once by myself. A lot of it is sad. Only a few blocks away from the Carribean hotels are people waitinf for their weekly bread. I'm in favor of lifting the Embargo, because A) This isn't the McCarthy Era and B) I feel it will help Cuba economically.

[stafffighter]

At 10/6/09 09:22 PM, TheStonePilot wrote:

At 10/6/09 08:37 PM, Zintendo wrote: Because Fidel Castro sucks donkey nuts, and Cuba almost nuked Florida in the red menace. America has no reason to repeal the laws they put up against Cuba about no trading.

Besids, you know, stimulating Cubas economy. Oh, and Fidel isn't in power anymore, and it wasn't Cuba who was trying to nuke America, it was the U.S.S.R. So nice try, but fail troll.

Yes but Castro, and through him the Cuban governent had close ties to the U.S.S.R, which is kind of what got America all riled up. There was this thing with missles.....

[SkunkyFluffy]

At 10/6/09 08:01 PM, Tancrisism wrote: The desire to smoke Cuban cigars is not the main reason that lifting the embargo would be desirable to both Cuba and the US. I'm sure you don't think that though.

Generally when you make a statement like this it is a good idea to make it clear who you're referring to.

Personally I think the embargo was stupid to begin with and is especially ridiculous now that we've given China favored nation trading status. Cuba isn't destroying an entire culture like China is in Tibet, and doesn't claim sovereignty where it has no right.

The people of Cuba would benefit greatly from even just lifting the travel ban, and tourist dollars going to Cuba would actually benefit American airlines, travel agencies, cruise ship lines, etc. Not to mention bettering the quality of life and medical care in Cuba, and allowing them to function more "green" by importing cars that aren't decades old. Things like that.

I just made my post about the cigars because I think it's specious to include them in an argument about lifting the embargo.

[morefngdbs]

At 10/6/09 10:14 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote: I just made my post about the cigars because I think it's specious to include them in an argument about lifting the embargo.

;;;
Actually Skunky has a good point in her post about 'cigars'.
The last time I was in the Dominican Republic, 2 winters ago, a local cigar shop where they actually roll the cigars & you can buy what they are making today or go into their humidor (it was about 20 x 20 feet square) & buy other types of cigars they make there.

The shop had a little gold Presidential seal on their sign. It is only given to cigar shops that meet the highest standards of the cigar rolling industry & the owner & several of his employees were Cuban.
SO your in the D.R. buying Dominican cigars rolled by Cuban cigar makers...to me, how can they not be considered as good as a Cuban cigar ?!?

I don't smoke them...but I have friends and know several other guy's that do & sometimes at parties I'll light one up & puff on it & wave it around like the other guy's do ... but I really don't "get it" about cigars .
The price difference is huge from Canada to the DR.
A cigar like a Cohiba , sells for as much as $50.00 in Canada, in the shop in the DR they were less than $5.00 each. You bring back 50 of them that you get for even cheaper because your buying bundles for about $4.00 each & sell them to the guys here for half of what they would have to pay at a cigar shop, & you'd have a grand in your pocket..although according to Canadian law...it is illegal to sell tobacco products in Canada without a license & paying the $43.00 in tax on each cigar ;)
So no one EVER DOES IT .

[hansari]

You all need to improve your critical reading skills...the questions been answered...

At 10/5/09 09:55 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote: I will point out that Cuban cigars are not what they're cracked up to be. Most of the truly good Cuban cigar makers fled the country after Castro came to power and now manufacture their smokes in Nicaragua and other countries.

Not that it really matters to the debate, I just always wondered why people are so passionate about these cigars, since the only thing they really have going for them is that they're illegal.

At 10/6/09 07:29 PM, stafffighter wrote: I had some years ago in Canada. We got them at a convieince store so I think that says something about the availability. They were good as far as I knew cigars back then but you could tell they were marketed on American tourists being flabergasted they were legal.

...its so obvious guys...

The "Cigar industry" spends millions lobbying to keep the ban in place! Lest we all realize just how shitty these cigars really are, and their profits plunge...

[SkunkyFluffy]

Well, now that Obama has signed the flavored cigarette ban into law, flavored cigar sales will skyrocket, and maybe the Cigar Lobby will finally back off the Cuban embargo...

[hansari]

At 10/7/09 06:03 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote: Well, now that Obama has signed the flavored cigarette ban into law, flavored cigar sales will skyrocket, and maybe the Cigar Lobby will finally back off the Cuban embargo...

What?!! No!!! After working so hard to push that legislation! It would be counter-productive to lift the Cuban Embargo...

Look at the profits these guys are already making!

[yurgenburgen]

If Cuban cigars were legal in the U.S., the U.S. cigar industry would crash and burn.

[SkunkyFluffy]

At 10/7/09 06:18 PM, yurgenburgen wrote: If Cuban cigars were legal in the U.S., the U.S. cigar industry would crash and burn.

You obviously know absolutely nothing about cigars if you genuinely believe this.

[hansari]

At 10/7/09 08:07 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote:

At 10/7/09 06:18 PM, yurgenburgen wrote: If Cuban cigars were legal in the U.S., the U.S. cigar industry would crash and burn.

You obviously know absolutely nothing about cigars if you genuinely believe this.

I know right...at least my conspiracy theory acknowledged they would still exist.

I mean candy corn still exists!

[yurgenburgen]

At 10/7/09 08:07 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote: You obviously know absolutely nothing about cigars if you genuinely believe this.

It's not so much about the Cuban cigars themselves as it is about the American perception of them.

[SkunkyFluffy]

The reason legalizing Cuban cigars will not affect the American cigar industry is because there basically IS no American cigar industry. Most of the cigars sold in this country are produced overseas to begin with. There are a few brands of cigar that are produced in this country, but for the most part they are the cheap convenience store brands like Black & Milds. The people who buy those cigars are not going to start buying Cubans if they're made legal because they'll be just as expensive as any other imported cigar.

Now, Nicaraguan and Dominican sales may suffer somewhat, but the average American tobacco shop isn't going to suffer one bit. They'll probably even see a bit of a sales uptick because of the novelty of buying Cuban cigars legally. Eventually that will settle down and people will go back to buying cigars the way they currently do - casual smokers buy them for impulsive reasons and more serious smokers buy them based on quality. Since cigars made outside of Cuba can be just as good or better than the ones made inside Cuba, Cuban cigars will probably fall somewhere in the middle and will simply be quietly integrated into the spectrum of cigars you can buy at your local tobacconist.

In short, I stand by my original statement that you do not understand cigars.